So in order of preference:
KDJ11-BF (M8190-AE) Goes in slot 1
KDJ11-Bx
MSV11-JD Slot 2
MSV11-JD Slot 3
Right so that's the answer. Good I shall now look for those.
Thanks
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull
Sent: 23 May 2007 16:24
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus
On 23/05/2007 08:44, Rod Smallwood wrote:
> Hi Jerome,
> Sorry I did not pose the question very well.
> I am trying to get back to the original issue.
>
> Which is:
>
> 1. I have an 11/94 with a missing cpu board.
> 2. The correct CPU board as you know is too expensive.
> 3. Please will somebody give me a low cost alterative in a form
I can
> understad.
>
> 4. So all I want is for somebody to say is something like:
>
> " Put CPU board type KDJ11-xx (M????-??) in slot 1."
Practically speaking, if you can't get a KDJ11-E M8981 PDP-11/94 or /93
board, the next best is a KDJ11-BF M8190-AE which is the 18MHz board
with floating point accelerator used in an 11/84 or 11/83. But any
KDJ11-B would do, the permutations being 18MHz or 15MHz, and with or
without FPA. The plain M8190 (no suffix) KDJ11-BC can't have an FPA
added.
The other common flavour of KDJ11 is the MM7554 used in the 11/53 but
that can't use PMI (which you need).
All the above are quad-height boards. You do not want the dual-height
KDJ11-A.
> " Put a memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) in slot2."
MSV11-J, M8637, or failing that, MSV11-RA, M7458. Look in
http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/QBus_memory to see how
much memory the various versions have. One or two MSV11-JD would be
best.
> " Put another (optional) memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??)
> in slot3."
See above. And that is the correct order. If you only get one memory
board you may also need a Minimum Load Module for slot 3.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Wed, 23 May 2007 12:04:18 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:
>If one has papertape, which I don't expect Charles does. A 2MB OS/8
>device will fill a lot of papertape ;-)
Actually I do have an ASR33. Now consider how long 2 Mb would take
to punch or read at 10 characters per second :P
>I directed him to the list because I am aware of what VTserver does,
>but I haven't used it myself and thought that there would be some
>experienced hands to show him the ropes.
Anyone?
I'm having a problem since I think VTserver was originally
intended to work with hardware flow control (handshaking) and 11's
console port is a simple three-line with no flow control. This is
the version I'm using, that runs on Windows machines:
http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip
Max SLU speed on the -11 is 19200 so that's what I'm running. I
tied pins 1,4,6 together on the DE-9 connector to COM1: (to "fake"
a handshake).
After starting ODT on the 11/23+, and "VTserver 19200" in the
laptop's cmd window, I see more or less continuous strings of "@"
until I hit ^B and then ^A to download the bootstrap. The "copy"
file then downloads successfully, but when prompted for the input
device (RL), when I hit the R key, it echoes continuously at high
speed (RRRRRRRRRRRRRR....) until I press the L, then
LLLLLLLLLLLL... etc. and when hitting return, of course it's a
"bad device" message.
Is there anything I can do about this? Is it possible to use
XON/XOFF flow control (I don't think the "copy" program
does, though?) What did I do wrong?
thanks
Charles
>
>Anyone?
>
>I'm having a problem since I think VTserver was originally
>intended to work with hardware flow control (handshaking) and 11's
>console port is a simple three-line with no flow control. This is
>the version I'm using, that runs on Windows machines:
>http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip
>
I have used VTServer quite a bit to copy RK05, RL01, and RL02 packs from my PDP-11/40 to a Windows-based PC, and vice versa. I have not used it in a couple years, but it is my recollection that when you start the VTServer executable, and assuming that your INI file is set up properly, it opens the COM port, which is connected via (I think) a null modem cable to the console serial line on the PDP-11. It then copies an ULTRIX OS to the PDP-11 and boots Ultrix. It seems like it took a few minutes to copy the Ultrix shell to the PDP-11. Once Ultrix is up and running, you can copy files to and from the PDP-11 disk packs. I have pulled images of many packs to my PC this way, and I have also copied disk images from my PC to an actual PDP-11 RL01, RL02, and RK05. It always worked fine for me except when a pack had bad blocks.
I think that my version of VTServer is more current than the one that Johnathan Engdahl has on his site. When I was working with VTServer, I encountered some bugs. Fred Van Kempen fixed these for me and sent me an updated VTServer system.
It sounds like you could use a PDP-11 to create RL01 or RL02 packs for use on the PDP-8. However, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, you could not do the same with RK05 packs because the sectoring is different. I think the metal hub that is mounted on the platter is different as well and has a different number of grooves in the hub.
If you want my version of VTServer, let me know. I may stick in out on my web site so it can be downloaded.
Ashley
http://www.woffordwitch.com
Hi Jerome,
Sorry I did not pose the question very well.
I am trying to get back to the original issue.
Which is:
1. I have an 11/94 with a missing cpu board.
2. The correct CPU board as you know is too expensive.
3. Please will somebody give me a low cost alterative in a form
I can understad.
4. So all I want is for somebody to say is something like:
" Put CPU board type KDJ11-xx (M????-??) in slot 1."
" Put a memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??) in slot2."
" Put another (optional) memory card type MSV11-xx (M????-??)
in slot3."
or what ever order is correct and will run in a
PDP-11/94.
(xx = please supply correct suffix)
(M????-??) please supply correct module number)
5. So far I know a lot about what won't work but not a lot about
what will!!
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jerome H. Fine
Sent: 23 May 2007 03:02
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11/84, PMI and Q-bus
>Rod Smallwood wrote:
>Well that's seems to define the 11/84.
>How does this all apply to the 11/94
>(which is the real problem)
>
Jerome Fine replies:
Since the PDP-11/94 CPU will be the ONLY board you use in those first
few slots, if you have a 4 MB version, there can't be any questions left
(as far as I understand).
So the answer will be found in the early replies:
MONEY!!
If I remember correctly, the PDP-11/93 CPU is still much more expensive
than the PDP-11/83 CPU when combined with PMI memory.
Now if you have an RT-11 question, that I can probably answer.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
--
If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has
been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the
semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four
characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.
Came across one of these the other day when rummaging through the
parts bin. I don't know anything much about it, but it allows, I
believe, dual-head displays on an ISA bus machine.
Anyone want it? Free for postage from London, UK...
--
Liam Proven ? Blog, homepage &c: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com ? MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com
Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk ? Skype: liamproven ? ICQ: 73187508
>
> these?
>
> - http://www.znode51.de/fog/filelist.htm
nope. Those are the CP/M and Language discs
FOG started supporting DOS later. The master
discs that were donated to the Computer History
Museum start around 1986 and go to 1990 (vol 408).
There were also specialty collections for various
CP/M boxes, but unfortunately they are water/mold
damaged are are unreadable (the discs are glued
to the inner sleeve).
I'm grinding through FOG_DOS today, and will put them
up under http://bitsavers.org/bits/Users_Groups/FOG
later today when I've finished reading them.
Thanks to a creative suggestion from Ethan, I want to use VTserver
to transfer a bootable OS/8 RL02 image from my laptop (which works
fine under SIMH PDP-8) to an RL02 pack on my 11/23+. Then I will
remove that disk from the drive on the -11, place it in the 8/A's
RL02 drive, and voila - it should boot OS/8! (The disks are
identical format regardless of system, only the programs
themselves differ).
Meanwhile I am confused about VTserver's use and terminology of
serial ports. I got a PC-executable version here:
http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip
and modified the .vtrc file (as recommended in the embedded
comments) to send only two tape records, "copy" and the RL02
image. I realize a null modem cable will need to be made. So far
so good?
But I don't understand the difference between, say, "ttyd1" and
"ttyp9"... those are Unix terms, not DOS... will one of these be
correct to enable the serial port connector on the back (one of
the COM ports)? If not, how do I patch this?
I was a hardware designer and 8/16 bit assembly language writer
(and that was over 20 years ago) and definitely never a C, Unix or
Windows programmer, so please bear with me. Any helpful hints
appreciated :)
-Charles
--- Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> take no offense at my previous comment. It's just
>that I'd have needed better graphics (and clockspeed,
>and...) to brave the wilds of dos incompatibility in
>order to commit to such a system back when they were
>current. All of the other pseudo compatibles have much
>more to offer, and the Rainbow seemed to drift into
>obscurity not long after it's inception (there was a
>measure of solidarity among those who did buy it
>though, which is to be commended). I do consider it an
>interesting collectible piece though, and am eager to
>add to it functionally. BUT NOT AT THOSE PRICES!!! OI!
No offense taken :). The Rainbow does tend to be frustrating due
to its "MS-DOS compatability." I think you really have to love it to use
it sometimes...
If you want to see some more outrageous prices from ebay stores, do a
search for "dec rainbow" in Computers & Networking on eBay. The eBay
Store prices are comically high. My favorite is $89.93 for a "Fan
Assembly." Let me just get out my wallet...
-Jeff
jba at sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> skrev:
> On Saturday 19 May 2007 06:35, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> > > "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com> skrev:
> > > > On 5/17/07, Rod Smallwood <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk>
wrote:
> > > >> > OK we have a change
> > > >> >
> > > >>> > >PMI memory goes in slots 1 and 2, CPU goes in 3
> > > >>> > >joe lang
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Rod
> > > >
> > > > From my understanding of this after looking at various manuals
this
> > > > is true for an 11/73 or 11/83 with an H9872 backplane in a BA23
> > > > box, but not for an 11/84.
> > >
> > > Correct. So if people could stop assuming that an 11/84 have a q-bus,
> > > we would get a long way towards clearing this up.
> > > If people don't know about the 11/84 or 11/94, don't write answers
> > > based on your knowledge of the q-bus based KDJ11 setups.
>
> My "11/94" (which was an upgraded 11/84, and which I got CPU-less)
> actually does have a QBUS... it's got an Able Qniverter to hook the
> UNIBUS in the chassis to the QBUS from the CPU, and both QBUS and UNIBUS
> peripherals.
>
> Does anyone know how common that was? I don't see any evidence pointing
> towards it not being designed that way by DEC. The chassis is DEC
> badged, with a label on the side indicating that it was upgraded from an
> 11/84 to be an 11/94 at some point.
Pat, what you have is what I would describe as an 11/93 with an
Qniverter. That will not be exactly the same thing as an 11/94.
The KTJ11-B, which is DECs Unibus adapter, have some special signals to
the CPU telling it that the KTJ11 is there, and that changes the
behaviour of the Qbus, according to the manuals.
I haven't said that the wiring of the memory slots in an 11/84 (or
11/94) isn't the same as in a Q/CD backplane. It must (by default) be
atleast very similar to a Q/CD backplane. However, there are some
special signals, and also some signals that change behaviour in an 11/84
and 11/94, according to the manuals. And that will only happen if you
have a KTJ11-B in there.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
