Chris M wrote:
Ok, here's probably the zaniest question of the week.
How many computers/terminals/or-what-have-you used
happy colorful keytops? I really expect you all to
work hard at a comprehensive list this time, or I'll
get so mad I just might quit the list! LOL LOL LOL
don't count on it!!
Billy: I'm certain you'll see all kinds of answers. This is an old idea,
reinvented every generation of keyboards. Coloured keys was a common
technique long before the PC world. In the late '50's, different colours
were used to indicate which keys represented instructions - this was back in
the days of inputting your program directly through the keyboard. A good
example is the RPC-4000 or LPG-30.
Before that, there were some keyboards that were used for more than one
language, with switches to control the language. I saw this on some of the
Fujitsu computers of the mid-50's. The keyboard could input normal English
characters or Kanji. The Kanji characters were colour coded to reflect the
root character.
Saw that same concept on many other keyboards that used characters unique to
a language all through the early computer industry around the world.
Going further back, some of the linotypes were modified for special
characters and used different coloured key tops for special characters.
I've seen photos of this from the 30's and 40's.
I'll have to ask the typewriter egroup what they think is the oldest. I
would bet it goes back to the earliest typing machines.
Billy
Got a call from someone here in NJ. He has about 10
older computers, 1 has the old style "10 inch" floppy
drives. I have to assume that means 8 inch (didn't
bother getting into that with him over the phone) -
but what could it be??? My bet is some sort of Tandy
something or other, for these are the most commonly
found units with those drives. He has to take pictures
and whatnot and e-mail them to me. I haven't got any
finger nails left...
There never was a 10" drive, was there?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Evening folks,
Anyone know of a decent source of BC16e cable? We're trying to replace a
drum of the stuff at work so we're not after it for nothing (though that's a
nice price :)) but actually finding a known source in the UK is proving
difficult.
Any tips appreciated.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
> Also, does anyone who has sold up there know what time to be in line or to get
> there?
Used to be before dawn, and over by noon.
It gets off to a slow start now, so any time before 7.
The Livermore swapmeet was "mudded" out Sunday, so I am planning on being at the
De Anza (foothill) swapmeet in Cupertino (California) this Saturday. I'll be
bringing a bunch of stuff I owe to people up there, so if anyone sees anything I
have on VCM they would like to buy and have me bring up, let me know. I like
"free" shipping :).
Also, does anyone who has sold up there know what time to be in line or to get
there?
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:51:46 -0500
From: "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com>
Subject: Re: QB Format?
Mike,
Let me know if you do have a copy please.... thank you.
Curt
--------------------
That might take a while considering the state of my floppy collection,
but I'll keep an eye out (if my recollection is even correct).
Meanwhile, try the Amiga version if you can, and also look around
for various others; there were several programs named Qbackup and
it might well have been one of those.
mike
=================================================
-------------
M H Stein wrote:
> Message: 33
> Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 00:50:22 -0500 (EST)
> From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope)
> Subject: Re: QB Format?
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Message-ID: <20070304055022.8D0C4162B4 at mail.wordstock.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> And thusly were the wise words spake by Curt @ Atari Museum
>
>> I'm going through and archiving 3.5" disks onto my PC, I've run across a
>> box of disks marked:
>>
>> QB Format and I am unable to read them with some of the disk utils I
>> have, is anyone familiar with this format and know what system it
>> belongs too? I was thinking Amiga perhaps, but I haven't been able to
>> find any reference to Amiga and QB format.
>>
>>
>
> QuarterBack? An Amiga backup program...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bryan
> -------------------------------
> Also used by PCs; might even still have a copy somewhere.
>
> mike
>
>
>
-------------- Original message from "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com>: --------------
> > Image Disk reads it with out errors
> > 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17
> > 0/1: Single sided
> > 0/0: Single Step
> > 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval)
> > Read complete
> >
> >
> > Trying to write and it has errors from the get go.
> > 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes
> > :format error <0> overun
> > :write error <2> no sector
> > and on .............................
> >
> > written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive
> > Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive
> > all capable of SD .
> >
> > I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first.
>
> Don't use HD disks - as ImageDisk noted in it's initial
> report, all sectors in the image are double-density.
>
> You didn't show all the information, but since it's
> single-sided, 10 sectors per track, and there are 800
> sectors, this tells me it's an 80 track disk.
>
> So - don't use a 360K drive (they are only 40 tracks).
> You shouldn't need to worry about SD capability - there
> are no SD sectors in the image.
>
> The 300k data rate tells me that you recorded this on a
> 1.2M HD drive - I'm assuming you did not specify a 300-250k
> data rate translation when you recorded it (?)
>
> Assuming all that, it should write back to a 1.2M HD drive
> with ImageDisk. It should also write back to a 80 track DD
> drive such as TEAC-55F or SA-460 or TM-100-4. You would need
> to set a 250->300k data rate translation to write on a DD drive.
>
> I don't have any VAX disks to try, however I have read and
> written Rainbow disks, which are also RX50 and use 80 tracks
> by 10x512byte sectors, so I know ImageDisk works with this
> format.
>
> 10x512byte sectors can be twitchy on some PC setups. It
> pushes the limits of the drive and formatting more than
> the standard PC formats do. Most systems which use 10x512
> have a more flexible FDC than the PC does.
Thats the answer ...........................
>
> Some suggestions:
>
>
snip ............................................................... long reply, lots of help.
All is well, the disks booted a VAX 8250 with out any problems
as I said in a earlier post it was the controller that caused the problem.
I guess that why I have 6 image disk machines.
Dave if your reading this, Thanks for a great product.
1) question. I was reading some Cromemco Cromix disks
which are 360k DD with sd boot tracks on a 1.2 meg dirve
and a SD controller. Disks where all original Cromemco
or Dynatech software.
I would get
0/0: unable to determine interleave
:300k SD - 18 sectors of 128 bytes G1:7 G2:9
0/1 300k DD -10 sectors of 512 bytes G1:13 G2:20
and on.................... (xxx data, xx compresses. 0 unavil)
This did not happen on all of the disks (50%) but the first one
which is bootable, did have problems.
It seemed to read them OK, but I switch to a 360 drive
to be safe. I did not try to write any of these but would
they still work with the interleave error. The 360k drive setup
had no problems at all.
--
> dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
> dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
> com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
> http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
Thanks, jerry
-------------- Original message from "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>: --------------
> On 3/3/07, g-wright at att.net wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a stack of the original VAX Disks (console and
> > set up , 5 1/4 RX50 ) The ones in front of me are
> > for a 8200 series. I would like to copy them but can't
> > get image disk to work. Is this possible or do I have to
> > use a VAX..
>
> You should not have to use a VAX. There's nothing strange about the
> low-level format for 8200 console disks (I have an 8200/8300 in my
> basement, FWIW).
>
> > I have RT11 on a micro PDP-11 with a RX50
> > and I think my professional still works. But would really like to
> > get it on a better media for long term storage.
>
> Sure.
>
> > Image Disk reads it with out errors
> > 0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17
> > 0/1: Single sided
> > 0/0: Single Step
> > 800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval)
> > Read complete
Heres is where I believe I missed the problem. The disks are not full
using Anadisk on the floppy, data ends at cylinder 28 and is
blank to the end. Anadisk can scan the whole disk with out errors.
with 800 data and no compressed some thing is wrong. If I understand
Image disk correctly.
I moved to another Image Disk machine (I have 6 now) and its seems to
work fine. Although I believe the proof will be by trying them. The
new readings are (800 sectors, 472 data, 328 compressed, 0 Unavail)
and the Write works with out errors. The original IMD file size was
400k the new one is much smaller. I have writen these out on both
DD and HD media. both bulk erased first.
>
> So far, so good...
>
> > Trying to write and it has errors from the get go.
> > 0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes
> > :format error <0> overun
> > :write error <2> no sector
> > and on .............................
> >
> > written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive
> > Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive
> > all capable of SD .
> >
> > I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first.
>
> Hmm... Others on the list can chime in with their floppy expertise,
> but from the way you are describing what you've tried, it doesn't
> sound as if you have a clear picture of the media in front of you.
Boy did you read that one right Thank you Ethan .............. This did help
move me along.
>
> RX50 disks are single-sided (as mentioned by imagedisk in your read
> example, above), 80-track, ten 512 byte-sectors per track for a total
> of 400Kbytes. Your 360K drive can _not_ write RX50 disks (among other
> issues, it's a 40-track drive).
>
> If you've verified that your 1.2MB drive works as a PC drive, then,
> presuming you have the right media, you shouldn't have any hardware
> issues writing RX50 images. Media is where I get a little fuzzy on
> the details. I've personally only ever written RX50 images to RX50
> media. I've never tried to recycle PC floppies, so I'm not sure what
> the best choice is. I do seem to recall that what you want should
> *not* have hub reinforcement rings, as they can cause alignment
> problems in real RX50 drives.
>
> If you can score a Teac FD55GFR drive, it can be strapped up to be a
> _real_ RX33 or strapped to behave "normally" on a PC FC controller.
> The strapping has to do with motor on and select lines, not data, BTW.
> I mention the FD55GFR because it was the 5.25" drive DEC shipped
> after they moved on from the RX50, so you can be sure that you aren't
> having hardware compatibility issues (plus, it's all-around good,
> solid 5.25" drive).
I did try this and it is the controller that causes the problem. no to sure
why ???
I have been re-reading all of my disks with image disk and have found
that many of my original disks worked fine but the copies I made on the
original hardware had bad tracks. So now I'm re-writing everything and
trying it in the original machine if possible. The machine here that did not
work was my main machine for 22disk, anadisk and teledisk. But it has a
secondary controller (compaticard 4) with 4 more external drives.
The most trouble free set up so far is a Adaptec AHA-1542cp SCSI
controller with floppy. I now have 4 PC's with this card and have not seen
any problems with single density or in this case odd formats. These are the
ISA version with a HD SCSI connector on the back. Some of the other
version of the card can't do Single density.
>
> In your case, I'd run some read/write/verify tests with your 1.2MB
> drive and PC-compatible floppies and if they show any marginal
> problems, try cleaning the heads. You can clean the heads in any
> case, but it might be nice to have a "before" picture to compare
> post-cleaning performance. If you can locate some real RX50 media,
> try writing to those. They aren't "magical", but they are
> pre-formatted for 10 sectors-per-track (MS-DOS uses 9 sectors for 360K
> disks and 17 sectors for 1.2MB disks, if you didn't remember). As
> with the RX01s, most DEC equipment can *not* lay down the RX50
> low-level format, the Rainbow being the most notable exception. A PC
> _can_ format an RX50, but you'll need some 3rd-party tool to do that -
> DOS can't by itself.
>
> I'm sure others will be able to chime in with various informed opinions.
>
> -ethan
>
> P.S. - just found this old doc on the state of RX50s and various
> versions of DOS and tools for DOS...
> http://www.classiccmp.org/rainbow/files/rx50faq.doc Dunno what OS you
> are using to write your disks, but perhaps some info in this FAQ will
> shed some light.
I have a good friend that has almost every VAX and PDD machine made
so He is going to test these.
After these disks get tested, I will post a follow-up.
Thank, Jerry
Jerry Wright
g-wright at att.net
Hi,
I have a stack of the orginal VAX Disks (console and
set up , 5 1/4 RX50 ) The ones in front of me are
for a 8200 series. I would like to copy them but can't
get image disk to work. Is this possible or do I have to
use a VAX.. I have RT11 on a micro PDP-11 with a RX50
and I think my professional still works. But would really like to
get it on a better media for long term storage.
Image Disk reads it with out errors
0/0: 300k DD 10 sectors of 512 bytes - G1:9 G2:17
0/1: Single sided
0/0: Single Step
800 sectors (800 data, 0 compressed, 0 unaval)
Read complete
Trying to write and it has errors from the get go.
0/0: 300k 10 sectors of 512 bytes
:format error <0> overun
:write error <2> no sector
and on .............................
written on a PC with 1.2 HD drive
Tried on another 1.2 and on a 360k drive
all capable of SD .
I tried both HD and DD disks . all bulk erased first.
Thanks, Jerry
So, I've acquired a Wyse 99gt with no screen burn, but I need to turn the
contrast up all the way to be visible. Can anyone point me to documents
or other resources on brightening the CRT?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
