test-drb March 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

239 participants
488 discussions

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

>>>> Did any computer built after 1960 NOT have a FORTRAN >>>> implementation? >>> >>> Yes, my ICT1301 (155+ built from 1962 to 1965) had no Fortran >>> compiler. >> >> I've not seen a Fortran compiler for any of the following : >> >> HP9830 (I claim this is a computer, it ran BASIC from ROM) >> >> Philips P850 (maximum 2K words of core, I believe larger P800 series >> machines did have a Fortran compiler available) >> >> HP9825, 9831, 9845, 9835 series >> HP80 series. >> >> Just about all the pocekt computers (Sharp, Casio, HP, etc) >> >> What abotu the IBM 5100? And for that matter the Commodore PET (I >> know >> the SuperPET had such a compiler), the C64, etc. And the Sinclair/ >> Amstrad >> machines (ZX*0, ZX81, Spectrums). And the Oric > > How many of the above would run *any* type of compile-to-machine- > language HLL compiler? Most of the BASICs were tokenized and > interpreted. > > A few of those that you've cited simply didn't have the resources for > it. > > But maybe not--even the lowly IBM 1620 with 20K digits (not bytes--a > character took 2 digits) of core and no disk drive would compile > FORTRAN. That's pretty remarkable when you consider that a 1620 > instruction is 12 digits long--and the bottom half-K or so was > dedicated to storing arithmetic lookup tables (the 1620 Cadet > couldn't even add two numbers without the tables first being loaded). > The card reader-punch was used as intermediate storage--you read in > pass 1 of the compiler, then your program, which caused a new card to > be punched for every statement. You then read in the deck for pass > 2, followed by your program and an executable object deck was punched > (and a listing was made on the printer). AFAIK, the Cadet equipped > with paper tape instead of cards could do the same thing. This was probably not aimed at me, but for the record the ICT 1301 had a COBOL compiler (if you count that as a HLL) but most programs were written in machine code with relativisers. The largest 1301 had 2000 words by 12 digits, but I think COBOL could run on a 1200 word machine, so 1200 x 12 =14400 digits, a bit less than a 1620. What it did (and still does) have is a 12000 word drum as backing store. Many 1301s also had mag tape too, but I am not sure COBOL needed to use them. Mind you 1301 instructions are mainly six digits long, Its just the block move and drum/tape I/O orders which are 12 digits. The card/paper tape intermediates reminds me of the older Elliott 920 Coral 66 compiler written by CAP (computer analysts and programmers). It was four passes and each pass punched out a tape to read into the next pass. The first pass expanded macros and was optional if you did not use any macros. The second and third passes converted from infix to polish, then polish to reverse polish (or maybe the other way round), and the final pass did code generation. Then you collected together all the tapes from all your program segments and libraries and fed them to a linking loader. If you managed to do that without tearing a tape you were rewarded by your program running. My boss wrote a mini operating system which loaded the programs and passed the intermediates via a huge disk (about a meter diameter with the axis horizontal, it was a head per track disc of a fairly small capacity, IIRC 2 million bits or maybe 2 million 18 bit words), which made life bearable. Later on we moved the compiler onto a GEC 4080 to cross compile for the 920. The 920 program grew and I had to modify the compiler so it could produce the binary output in chunks as it exceeded a 1000 foot roll of tape, and anyway I was the only person in the office capable of rolling up a full 1000 foot roll without damaging it. Roger.

18 years, 1 month

single transistor projects?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

[possibly off topic, but what isn't these days? :-)] When I was a kid I had a book, I think it was called something like "single transistor projects". As I recall it was full of lots of simple circuits featuring a single transistor. (or who knows, maybe it was 101 transistor project; I think I was in 4th grade at the time - late '60s) anyway, one was a single transistor FM radio. I just remember it had a single FET, a coil, a cap, some discreets. I think it told how to wind the coil "in the air". Does anyone remember such a book? I figure if anyone one would, it would be someone here... seems like a fun thing to build now days with my son. -brad

18 years, 1 month

Bitsavers subscription

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I credit Guy Sotomayor with the original idea, a few others chimed in as well. So I ran it by Al Kossow and this was officially blessed by him.... The plan is for me to offer subscriptions to bitsavers for a fee. The idea is that you can sign up for a subscription and pick just the specific directory trees you want, or the entire archive. You are initially sent a complete copy of all the trees you selected (or full archive) on the medium of your choice (CD, DVD, HD, etc.). From that point on - for the subscription fee - you are automatically shipped a set of updates periodically - say every month? - that keeps your own personal bitsavers archive up to date. Perhaps this automated system could also allow purchase of a "one-off" cd/dvd without a subscription containing just the files and/or directories that you tag. Why purchase a subscription? Well, for one - it keeps you from having to constantly check bitsavers for what is new and download those files. It also will hopefully reduce the bandwidth on the site for people who decide they want a full copy. It gives you a way to get all the files in a courteous manner and keep up to date. Another reason - the cost of the subscription would be just a bit higher than the cost of media. The overage above the cost of media goes to the care and feeding of the classiccmp server. That means by buying a subscription you are helping to subsidize the cost of the classiccmp hardware, bandwidth usage, etc. etc. This is much like the FreeBSD CDROM subscription if you're familiar with that. You can get the identical bits elsewhere, but buying a CD subscription is convenient and directly supports the cause. I would also point out that this in no way changes your ability to download files directly from bitsavers or any of the mirrors for free. This is merely a packaging/update service to be viewed as a donation to the cause and a convenience for those who want to stay current on bitsavers. I am going to check with the developer working on the classiccmp website to see if this (tracking the membership, what directories they want, building the burn directories, etc.) is something that will fit well into code he has already done for the new classiccmp. If it is, great. If not, then I'll ask him if he wants this task. If not, then I'll come back to the list and see if people educated in the ways of php/mysql wish to contribute time to creating the software. Of course, if no one is interested, I'll just continue making the occasional trip downtown to the datacenter and burning CD's for people at no charge. It would be nice if there was interest in this though! Jay West

18 years, 1 month

ADDS Multivision

by mconnor＠cosmocom.com

I saw your post about finding MUON disks for your MultiVision. I was part of the development team that designed this. I designed the BIOS & alot of the HW dealing with the floppy & hard disks. I do not have any of the disks, but might be able to find some of the others developers. Would you be interested in selling or trading it? This is the first one or posting I have seen since 1980 when I left ADDS - the company who made it. I am really interested in trying to see if you would sell/trade it. I can spend some email time discussing it's history if you like. Thanks, Mike Connor _____ Michael E Connor Quality Assurance Team Lead CosmoCom, Inc.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />121 Broad Hollow Road Melville, NY 11747 USA Phone: +1 (631) 940-4213 Fax: +1 (631) 940-4562 EMAIL: <mailto:mconnor at cosmocom.com> mconnor at cosmocom.com URL: <http://www.cosmocom.com/> http://www.cosmocom.com _____________________________________________ Maximize Your Investment in CosmoCom Technology at CosmoCommunity 2007 Join us 30 May - 1 June, 2007 - Hauppauge, New York Learn more and register at <blocked::http://www.cosmocommunity.com///ohttp://www.cosmocommunity.com/> http://www.cosmocommunity.com

18 years, 1 month

Bitsavers subscription

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>Jay West wrote: > >> I credit Guy Sotomayor with the original idea, a few others chimed in >> as well. So I ran it by Al Kossow and this was officially blessed by >> him.... >> >> The plan is for me to offer subscriptions to bitsavers for a fee. >> I'll sign up too. Ashley

18 years, 1 month

Looking for Mirage OS diskettes: Pinnace 1a or Sage II/IV

by daviderhart＠oldzonian.com

Hello, I'm looking for Mirage OS diskettes for a data recovery effort. I'm trying to recover data on a Pinnacle 1a (68000 based system) http://www.sageandstride.org/Pinnacle-1a-1.jpg The system has Mirage OS installed on the hard drive. The system no longer boots to the hard drive so I'm hoping to reinstall the Mirage OS on a different hard drive and access the current hard drive as a secondary drive. If anyone has a lead on where I can find a copy of some Mirage OS diskettes for either the Pinnacle 1a or for a Sage II or Sage IV, I would really appreciate it. Here is an old brochure on the Mirage OS: http://www.sageandstride.org/html/mirageos_0.html Thanks for any help. --- David W. Erhart daviderhart at oldzonian.com daviderhart at sageandstride.org http://www.sageandstride.org

18 years, 1 month

Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976

by john_a_s2004＠hotmail.com

Hi, I saw this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230104939789 for Practical Electronics July 1976. This features a 8080A computer and refers to the SOL terminal. Is there any relation between this computer and the SOL 20 computer? Regards, John _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

18 years, 1 month

Crossbar and NeWS questions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> The Burroughs B5000/6000/7000 series mainframes used crossbar switches to > interconnect CPUs with memory and I/O processors. These machines were > introduced in 1961 or thereabouts. The relevant document is the B 5220 Central Control Technical Manual, orig issued in 1964 which discusses the crossbar: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/B5000_5500_5700/B5220.51_CentralControl_… page 111 or so..

18 years, 1 month

Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976

by frustum＠pacbell.net

John, it is one and the same. The production Sol was different than what appeared in the article. There were just a few prototypes made, and the one in the article is one of them. At www.sol20.org you can find scans of the article, and elsewhere is the PCB artwork for that revision board, which didn't appear in the magazine, but which was offered in the article for the cost of a self addressed stamped envelope. ----- Original Message ---- From: John S <john_a_s2004 at hotmail.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:32:00 AM Subject: Sol terminal in Practical Electronics July 1976 Hi, I saw this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230104939789 for Practical Electronics July 1976. This features a 8080A computer and refers to the SOL terminal. Is there any relation between this computer and the SOL 20 computer? Regards, John _________________________________________________________________ Txt a lot? Get Messenger FREE on your mobile. https://livemessenger.mobile.uk.msn.com/

18 years, 1 month

VAXmate Service Guide and Option Installation Guides

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

Does anyone want a DEC binder containing tthe VAXmate Service Guide, VAXmate Personal Workstation Handbook and installation guides for a number of VAXmate options? I got this with a bunch of MicroVAX stuff and don't have any use for it. I thought I'd offer it here before consigning it to the trash. Thanks, David

18 years, 1 month

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test-drb March 2007