test-drb October 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

228 participants
467 discussions

Boeing Surplus Closing... for the better...........

by g-wright＠att.net

-------------- Original message from Richard <legalize at xmission.com>: -------------- > IMO, its Boeing's store and they can pack it up and ship it to the > moon if they want to. > > Instead of trying to *stop* the closure of the store, IMO it would be > better to lobby for a one-time fire sale "everything must go!" event > with big discounts. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > > > Legalize Adulthood! I have been going there almost daily, since the early 70's. when you could buy Aircraft fasteners, computer hardware, test gear, and anything in between. PDP 8a's where 25.00 and PDP 11's where 45.00. if it was a large rack system, just name your price. ( I have 3 PDP 11/60's, 5 racks each) The store has been going down hill ever since. Most of the good stuff never makes it to surplus. In the past 5 years, only "Boeing has beens" have worked there. I have heard that the system has 175 employees. Over the years this has just been a monkey on Boeings back and they *never* should have been involve in a retail business. They staff this with people that could only function in a Boeing Mold. These folks should never been involved with the public. The folks that did care and wanted to help where stopped by the turf wars and Boeing policy. I tried over the year to at least slow down the trashing of vintage items. No one cared. You could go in there and see carcass of vintage items. They would only put out what would sell quickly. Lately I found 7 HP suite cases with HP 79xx Alignment tools and packs. They where empty. They could get 25.00 for the suite cases. So they trashed the rest. They love to sell 3 ring binders for .25 each. If you watched closely there where 100's of DEC, HP, Cray, TEK, Sun, Motorola binders from the 70's and 80's. covering both computers and test gear. All empty. As for really good test gear, that was offered up to a local company first and what was left went to the store. I could go further on this but won't. As for the things that this "list" would be interested in. They had what they called pre-sort. if it was newer and/or sold quickly, send it to the store, if not scrap it. They would set out DEC and Data General systems, empty. They could sell the boards by the pound and did not have to worry about anything. I saw some Dumb terminals (VT100) setting in the back this summer and asked to make sure the came out to the store. I was told its was easier to scrap them. No TEK or Dumb terminals would be brought out to the retail store. They have a large amount of old computer boards going trough there each month. all go to scrap. You can go in there on a Saturday morning and see 7 to 10 $60,000.00 a year employees setting around drinking coffee and talking to one another with out any care about the customer. How much surplus do you have to sell to cover one Saturday In the last couple of years they basicly have been watching 10-15 ebay sellers that are at the front door each day and catered to them. Putting everthing out first thing and then sat back and watched the rush when the door opened. The best thing that could happen is for the company to put everything in lot bids so someone, that at least cares a little, has the items. As for the fire sale, everyone is headed for the door. Through the 1st of the year all Boeing employees only have 6 to 8 weeks left to work. So I would just wait for the first lot bids and follow the winner home. Just my .02 cents worth - jerry Jerry wright JLC inc g-wrigtht at att.net

18 years, 1 month

IMSAI II - still viable OR has anyone else lost their deposit?

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Whilst I am in no way involved (I'm in the UK and would not know an IMSAI from a busted banjo) I am apalled at what this guy did. Is it not time to use the legal system to bring this guy to book? The English and US legal systems parted company in the late 1700's so I'm not sure how it would work. Suffice to say, in the UK at this stage the court bailiffs would have removed anything of value from his premisis and put it up for sale along with his house and car (if he owned them). The proceeds to go to repaying the swindled customers. Rod Smallwood -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert Stek Sent: 02 October 2007 16:57 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: IMSAI II - still viable OR has anyone else lost their deposit? I don't think he had any bad intentions in the beginning (some 6 years ago), as I said in a related comp.os.cpm post, "Never assume malice when incompetence will suffice." But his actions over the last two years suggest a lot about his integrity now. I have now heard from four individuals (in 24 hours), two of whom paid in full in advance, with the same basic story: after politely asking for updates, we are ignored despite repeated attempts at communication - no updates, no explanation, no 'good faith' offer of partial shipment (Howard Harte's super I/O board was produced, though apparently by Howard directly), no 'good faith' offer of anything, and certainly no offer of refund. I am sure that the project has been a personal nightmare for him. It is a shame to see someone who contributed so much to the development of the microcomputer industry in its early days end up trying to sweep his recent mistakes (and our money) under the rug while still pretending to offer an IMSAI II (and other items) for sale on his website - it's not only unethical but very probably fraudulent as well. I've screwed up in my life (just ask my ex-wife!). But IMHO it's far better to admit defeat and offer whatever atonement you can, than to continue in the self-delusion that the IMSAI II will ever be built and that a bunch of 'cry-babies' (my projection, not his words) who want their money back are stopping forward progress by reducing working capital. rant := off So, any there any others out there who are willing to admit that they lost their front money? Or anyone who actually received any of his other hardware offerings? Or who received a refund? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols >From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> >Subject: RE: IMSAI II - still viable OR has anyone else lost their > deposit? >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <0JP900ENKGIGSQ80 at msgmmp-1.gci.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >I've talked to him several times. Before the Altair kit and >after. Very nice guy. I don't think he has any bad intentions at >all. I will buy one the second they become available. I have no >idea what the situation with them is, but I'd have a hard time >thinking he was trying to defraud people or lie (of course, I have >all my money). He has told me of the money, engineering, and time he >has spent. > >Possibly he just isn't a "business" man. That's not a bad thing at >all, we all have our strengths! Engineers aren't good with making >their own due dates... ; ) The Kenbak kit was supposed to be done >by March. I just shipped the first 8 kits a week ago today. ; ) > >When I started selling kits I decided in the beginning not to collect >money until stuff was ready to ship. I wasn't worried too much about >getting lazy, but it made me look forward to shipping and work >towards that goal. > >Grant

18 years, 1 month

IMSAI II - still viable OR has anyone else lost their deposit?

by robert.stek＠gmail.com

I was an early fan of the Todd Fischer's IMSAI II project (www.imsai.net) and sent off a deposit several years ago. I even offered to review it in Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Ink (I'm a friend of Steve's and formerly lived in Hartford). I understand the problems of a task like re-inventing the IMSAI and think that I have been more than patient. His website is still active, he has a copyright date of 2007 on it, and it appears that you can still order not only an IMSAI II but other items as well. Unfortunately I have emailed him several times over the past 12-18 months and haven't had the courtesy of a response. I know he's there - he posts in comp.os.cpm - but from him to me: nada, zip, zilch, nothing. Is there anyone else on the list who was as retrospectively foolish as I as to trust him with a deposit? It doesn't speak much for his ethics if he advertises and takes orders for non-existent products (who was that guy and his company that advertised in Kilobaud, among others, back in the '70's with full page ads for non-existent products? Remember that?). And his customer service skills are non-existent if he just ignores politely worded inqueries re: progress on the product. So, am I the only one still waiting for an IMSAI II? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

18 years, 1 month

Anyone collect Dec/Compaq Alphaservers or VAXen?

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Now there's a story. ... Luckily (or unluckily) I had moved on from DEC by 1985 so I was not a witness to its sad demise. Better made products you could not want for. Despite having worked with PC's for many years. I could never see how they became preferred over central unit plus terminals for general business use. My modest collection has beeen accrued of the last couple of years. Apart from the 11/94's (Some potato head stole the CPU cards before I got to the machines) the rest of it is running/will run. I need KDJ 11 processors for the 11/94's. They are expensive and even those intended for 11/84's are silly prices. I also have three small Sun systems (I can't resist quality engineering) Rod -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Allison Sent: 02 October 2007 14:46 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Anyone collect Dec/Compaq Alphaservers or VAXen? > >Subject: RE: Anyone collect Dec/Compaq Alphaservers or VAXen? > From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 07:08:33 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" ><cctech at classiccmp.org> > >Hmmm > Time for a quick 'We are not worthy' ^00^ Consider my leg pulled. :) > >What did you do? >Raid the Mill with a fleet of trucks? No. I did get some small amounts of odd items from DEC salvage before it was shut down. Mostly things like H751A power controllers, power supplies and TU58 drives and boards. The one uVII (BA123 VIDSYS::) was a parting gift(I paid 100$ for it with DOCS and licenses) during the days of blood. For those that don't understand the post 1991 sell off of parts of DEC, that's when the DIGITAL logo went from blue to burgandy. The other was built from scrounge. VIDSYS:: is still setup for DECnet area 56.920 (one area in OGO was 56) and HIPPY:: was area 63.390 (hidden area for DECnet overflow). My 11T03 which is now the 11/73 was a gift from my boss at DEC. I kept it in the lab area for years for those odd projects but by late 80s it was obvious it was getting used less and less. He suggested "when are you going to scrap that thing?" I bring it home (on property pass) which I did. A year later when it was time to confirm and renew the property pass his answer was "what 11?". The remainder were mostly rescues. The bulk of the uVAX3100s came from UV Waterloo over 10 years ago on a if you take one you take them all and I was the only one willing to take a huge pile of uVAX3100s plus cables, VT320s VS2000s, TK50s, several TLZ04s.. Took two seperate 400mile round trips with a pickup truck filled to capacity. A fair number of those got redistributed to others as sixteen uVax3100s take a bit of space. The rest are also rescues from various seperate trips. Usually if the system is incomplete I jump on it and clean it up and restore it to life from spares. The few pending systems are due to my activities in amateur radio this year and now that I'm done with the bigger projects it's back to machines. I don't do Ubus-11s, big VAX (780s and the like) and unfortunately PDP-10/20s as most are too large to handle or power here. Also I've reached the point where excess do get passed on to others as I don't store any large number of systems either. I try to manage my collection. Those excess sometimes get cleaned up board added and moved along so they are operable and don't end up in the trash or worse. I like to power them up and play and that's incompatable with storage. There are a few small items like extra VT320s (white, green and amber), VT100s, H19, DECMate-IIIs I keep in the garage on rotation but I can and do run them there as well as it's warm enough in the winter and very dry. I keep those out there mostly to make it easier to move other stuff around in the room. What seperates me from museum is I use them, reconfigure and expand them them to suit my wishes or for fun. However, junking them is out of the questionas even basket cases are salvaged for any and all usable parts. FYI: if anyone needs parts for PDT11/1xx systems I have many CPU, memory and IO boards I'm not ever going to use. Someone took a bunch apart and then later gave me the box of boards. (ugly mutter mutter cuss cuss.) I mostly do DEC and CP/M based systems (s100, totables, SBCs) but I do have a few oddballs. For some reason the MIPS based DEC hardware never got my attention nor have the PC/clone(intel) based systems like Rainbow and VAXmate. I did have PROs (350s and 380s) but gave those away to concentrate on Qbus. Allison > >Rod > >-----Original Message----- >From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org >[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Allison >Sent: 01 October 2007 15:47 >To: cctech at classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: Anyone collect Dec/Compaq Alphaservers or VAXen? > >> >>Subject: RE: Anyone collect Dec/Compaq Alphaservers or VAXen? >> From: "Rod Smallwood" <RodSmallwood at mail.ediconsulting.co.uk> >> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 08:00:44 +0100 >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" >><cctech at classiccmp.org> >> >> >>My list >> pdp11/94 x 4 R >> >> DEC Rainbow 100+ * >> >> VAX 300 * >> VAX 400 * >> VAX 500 R >> VAXStation 3100 * >> >> DEC 3000 * >> >> Multia * >> >>* = Working >>R = Renovation (Mostly missing parts) >> >>Rod Smallwood > > >A more detailed list of DEC systems here. :) > > >Collection of operational hardware: > >PDP-8 based machines: >==================== > PDP-8f, 20k core and 2 serial 8650 and 8652 >2 Decmate-IIIs OS/278 > Intersil sampler (6100 chipset) extended to 3k ram > 6120 based board, homebrew 32kram 8k rom > >PDP-11 based machines: >===================== >1 LSI-11/03 rx02 >2 PDP11/23 BA11S boxes, > 1MB, RQDX2 and RD52 > 1MB, RQDX2 and RD31, RX50 >1 pdp11/73 50" RACK SYSTEM (4MB, DLVJ11, DEQNA, RQDX3>> RX02, RD52, >RX33, RL02). >1 BA11va with 11/23 +tu58 RT-11 >1 BA11va with 11/23 +Viking RX02 equivilent RT-11 > PDT11/130 11/03 with tu58 dectapeII > OSs in use: RT-11, XXDP-11 and unix V6 > >VAX based machines: >=================== > Microvax-II (ba23 based) 12mb, RQDX3, RD53, RX33 > This one lived as HIPSS:: during my days at DEC. > Microvax-II/GPX (Ba123 based, TK50 and SCSI disks) > This one was know as VIDSYS:: inside DEC. >3 Microvax2000 all with 2 RD53, 1 RD54 drive, one with ultrix >1 Microvax2000 as hard disk formatter and MOP bootable system. >2 Microvax3100/m76/gpx 32mb 2 each 1gb scsi internal >3 Microvax3100/server (not M10e) (filled with 400mb and 1gb disks) >4 BA42 SCSI disk farm for the 3100s populated with RZ56s > OSs in use VMSv5.4-4,V5.54, V7.2, Ultrix 4.2 > >Terminal for the uVAX systems is usually VT1200 via thinnet and the >PDP-11s the usual terminal is either VT340, VT320 or VT180 in terminal >mode. > >DEC CP/M speaking machines: >=========================== >1 Vt180 complete (dual RX180s) >2 Vt180 CP/M board built up as standalone one modded for 6mhz >1 Vt185 Thats a Vt125 + Vt180. > >In the non operational list: > >11/23B uPDP-11 in a BA23 pedestal that while complete with 11/23B, >M8057 memory, DHV11, RQDX2 and RD52, RX50 it requries cleaning and >testing. > >H11 Backplane complete with LSI-11 CPU, 16k of ram, two serial cards and >a parallel card of heath origin. Some day I'll find the case/power >supply for it. All parts are tested as working. > >Small 11/23 system using a H9281-BC (12x2 slots) filled with: > M8186 1/23 (Overclocked CPU mod) > 4 M8059 MSV11 ram > DLV11j, > RQDX3 with M9058 distribution board. (for RX33 and RD31) > MRV-11 Eprom card with MSCP boot. > VK170 with matching LK02 keyboard and a monitor. The VK170 > is a minimal VT52 on a dual width card for packaged systems > that communicates via RS232 to system and the bus use is > power only. >This is waiting on being packed in a reasonable nonDEC box with a DEC PS >and fans. The boards are known working and the backplane is already >jumpered as Q22. > >Generally in my house operational means I can actually turn it on and >play and it has a permanent spot that is easily accessable. > >One project that is in process is a H9800 desk/rack that will replace >the existing standard steel office desk. the system to be installed >there will be 11/23B in BA11s with a hand made Disk box for RX33 and >RD52s. > >I have two boxes (Xerox Paper sized) of tested boards enough to build >another few 11/23s and a few uVAXII as my spares. Failed boards get >repaird when I feel like it so I have good boards around. > >Who was it that has the SIG of > "DEC had then what you wish you could buy now." ? > >Allison > > > >

18 years, 1 month

Burroughs B80 rescued

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------------Original Message: Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> Subject: Burroughs B80 rescued Well, I drove up to Canada yesterday and picked up the Burroughs B80. <snip> I was more concerned with moving the computer than inspecting it, but I don't recall seeing any kind of standard looking interface ports. I believe that the B80 can support extra terminals, but I don't see it. Hopefully, when I get it going, I can connect something external to it and back up the disk packs. I have 11 packs, at least one of which is the operating system, MCP. -------------Reply: Not necessarily; as I recall, things like terminals, line printers, PPT I/O, Datacomm etc. and their interface/controller hardware were all options. The basic machine (which was probably most of them) consisted of the main unit with its dual-forms printer and keyboard and either integrated 8" floppies and/or the external dual 14" drive cabinet which could be 2 removable carts or one fixed/one removable; the self-scan display was also an option, but I don't think there was any I/O as standard equipment on the base model, which was essentially the disk-based replacement for the single-user L series ledger-card accounting/posting machines. mike

18 years, 1 month

TI-99/4A Floppies

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: TI-99/4A Floppies > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:52:04 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Brent Hilpert wrote: > >> I guess home computing got tossed over to the consumer products division at >> TI, which always seemed to have a bottom-of-the-line/low-end approach to >> things, too bad they didn't find some middle ground between that and their >> higher-end commercial/military stuff. > >Well the hand writing was on the wall after 1975 since in hindsight >we know that 16 bit computers with 32kw is just too small for any programs >after about 1975. Look how hard it was to cram advent on a 32K pdp8. >Ben. That doesn't apply to the TI9900. the reason is the PDP-8 is a 4k machine with a minimal instruction set and memory extension. The 990/9900 is a 32KW CISC machine that can support memory extension into the megabyte range. You forget the PDP11 was a 16bit 32kW machine too and that was highly successful. Advent fit on Z80 with 48Kb and PDP11 (LSI-11/03)with 28K of ram. The reason the TI990/9900 was not wide spread is TI was not a computer company and despite having something decent they didn't market it until it was way too late. In 1976-77 the 9900 was about one generation ahead of the 8080 and maybe Z80. Maybe the best code example is the line by line assembler along with a simple monitor all in 1K words. It was capable of very dense code. Actually the 64kB limit was not starting to be problematic until around 1978-9{or later} when applications like DBASE and VISICalc started filling ram. Allison

18 years, 1 month

Setting up a VAXstation

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Setting up a VAXstation > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:54:17 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, > General Discussion: > >At 4:54 PM +0100 9/30/07, Jules Richardson wrote: >>Jason T wrote: >>>My 3100/30 boots fine off the Hobbyist VMS disc using my >>>boots-anything Apple CD300 (aka Sony) drive. >> >>You got there first :-) Pulls of drives from old Apple systems seem >>like a good bet - I've used a few on various machines which need a >>512 byte block size. I normally use an Apple CD600, but it isn't >>quite perfect - some SGI systems don't like it for some reason >>(others do, as does everything non-SGI I've hooked it up to) > >I've had very good luck with an external Panasonic 4x CD-ROM drive I >purchased new in '95 for my PowerBook 520c. It has worked on >everything I've connected it to. I've used it on both a Mac and PC >laptop, and on numerous DEC, SUN, and Amiga systems. My only SGI >systems have built in CD-ROM's. Another likely source would be old >Sun Hardware. > >As I've previously mentioned I'm quite fond of Plextor caddy drives >for my PDP-11's. > >If you're trying to boot an old enough version of VAX/VMS then I >suspect 3rd party drives could cause problems. I know the Hard >Drives will. I'd recommend OpenVMS 7.2 or 7.3 for greatest SCSI >compatibility. I simply only use DEC HD's on VAXen. Even though I >use 3rd party drives on my PDP-11's and Alpha's. > > Zane > I have a few Toshiba 2x SCSI drives that work well for uVAX. The drives are easy to spot as there is a jumper header in the ID select area. Allison

18 years, 1 month

vcf 10

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I may be going to VCF10 - and turning it into a mini-vacation with the wife. I'd appreciate it if anyone familiar with area can email me some non-geek things to see and do around Mountain View on non-show days. It'd be nice to have her not think it's ALL geek stuff on the trip :) Jay

18 years, 1 month

EPROM Death?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

How do you tell an over-erased EPROM? I finally have my programmer and eraser, and just tried erasing 6 EPROM's. Four erased just fine, and two are showing weird patterns of alternating blocks of 04/06 and 14/16. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

18 years, 1 month

TI-99/4A Floppies

by chaosotter76＠gmail.com

On 9/27/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > How well has TI-99/4A software on floppies been preserved? We just > received a very large donation. As part of the donation is what > appears to be a complete TI-99/4A system complete with the expansion > box, and a couple other expansions. There is documentation for at > least some of the hardware and software. Preservation for TI-99/4A software on floppies seems to be pretty poor right now, because of (as Jim mentioned) the rarity of the expansion box and third-party software that used it. There are a few large-ish archives, but they're almost entirely unorganized -- nothing remotely approaching the TOSEC sets available for other systems. If you're able to image a significant number of those floppies, that would be a real service to enthusiasts. You might know this already, but you might look to see whether that expansion box houses a MyArc Geneve 9640, or any of the software is for the Geneve rather than the stock TI-99/4A.

18 years, 1 month

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test-drb October 2007