test-drb August 2006

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

216 participants
517 discussions

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I sent this one to Witchy the other day, but I think he's on holiday, so... maybe there are other Enterprise experts on the list :) Anyone know what Enterprise peripherals actually made it into production other than the EXDOS interface? We've got a lot of marketing stuff with the machine we were given the other day, and I've seen reference to expansion boxes, memory modules, home security systems, graphics tablets, mice, speech synthesisers. I know the floppy drives themselves never existed outside of marketing mock-ups. In fact, did the Enterprise-branded monitor even make it? Enterprise seemed very good at making full-scale production-quality mock ups of vapourware, so just the fact that it exists in posters doesn't mean much :) It's one seriously cool machine though, and the specs are pretty darn good for the time (way ahead of most other UK micros that were about) - it really deserved to do better. cheers Jules -- If you've ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow You need buttermilk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw

19 years, 1 month

DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question)

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Henk Gooijen" <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> skrev: >> From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> >> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >> Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> Subject: DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question) >> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:35:57 -0400 >> >> An obscure unibus & pdp-11 question: >> >> Does "clr" always do a DATIP (i.e. read-modify-write) on all 11's? >> >> It does on my 11/44. Something tells me I've seen threads (long ago) on >> this and the perils of using clr as opposed to "mov #0," when talking to >> hardware. >> >> The rl01 bootstrap does it talking to rl11 registers, which tripped me >> up for a bit. >> >> -brad > > The only difference between CLR and MOV #0 that I think of immediately > is that CLR clears the Carry flag too, whereas MOV #0 does not affect the > Carry flag. That is needed to do multi-word ADD or SUB. What does that have to do with anything? The question was about what Unibus transactions are performed given a CLR. I'm not at all close to any Unibus documentation right now, nor any processor docs. so I can't really answer the question. However, if I were to guess the answer would be no. I can't see that a CLR always would be implemented using a DATIP. It is probably very much up to each CPU implementation to perform whatever transactions that cause the end result to look the same. I'm actually surprised that a CLR would result in a read-modify-write cycle on the Unibus though. Are you sure it wasn't a CLRB? Johnny

19 years, 1 month

Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:42:08 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >> > I'm trying really hard to reach out and maintain composure.... >> >> It is appreciated, and I hope you can see the point that myself and several >> others are trying to get across. Please bare with my rambling in this >> email. I'm trying to illustrate a point :^) >> >> I would like to emphasis that I am not trying to pick a fight here. If >> anyone feels that way, or feels like firing back a flame, please go do > >Hopefully this is not a flame, I don't intend it to be > >> something else for an hour or two. If you still feel the need to reply, try >> to let logic rather than emotion dictate what you write. >> >> Let me start by saying that what I right below is based on my perception >> that the crux of this issue is that if the "10 year rule" is in effect, then >> Pentiums and Windows 95 are on-topic. > >A serious question : Was the Pentium ever used in a non-PC compatible? I >know the 386 was -- there was a least one Sun that used it, and those >interesting Sequent multi-processor 386 machines. Anything similar with >the Pentium? If so, (and if they're more than 10 years old or whatever), >I think I could easily consider those to be classic computers. No pentium but the 386 did appear on the S100 bus. Allison > >> >> > Zane wrote.... >> > > Wrong. The 10 year rule still makes sense. What you are saying is that >> > > no >> > > new systems will be added, and that this is a dying hobby. >> >> > Wrong. Just because I said the "10 year rule" is no longer active on the >> > list, does NOT mean that in it's place is a firm year cutoff instead. >> > NEITHER are acceptable. >> >> Even in the beginning the "10 year rule" wasn't considered to be perfect, it >> was a compromise. It was also recognized that an arbitrary cut-off at 10 >> years was bad, as systems newer than 10 years could be considered a classic. > >One great advantage of the 10 year rule was that it was easy to use. It >was pretty easy to dermine if a machine was over 10 years old or not. >Other definitions of 'classicness' seem much harder to apply. > >> I personally don't consider a Sun workstation a classic, I consider it a > >As a PERQ-fanatic I can't like Suns, right :-). But more seriously, I >would certainly consider a Sun 1 or Sun 2 to be a classic. > >> workhorse. I'm sure there are plenty here that disagree. At the same time >> I consider at least all pre-PCI Sun HW to be ontopic for this list. >> >> Shoot, I don't even consider most (if not all VAXen) to be classics! >> They're still widely used in businesses, and after the MicroVAX II, I for >> one don't find the hardware that interesting. I do however, think that they >> are great for supporting systems I do consider to be classics, namely >> PDP-11's. BTW, I run a VAX 24x7. > >Hmm.. I think the 11/730 _is_ a classic. To fit a complete VAX into 3 >hex-height boards using almost all standard chips (there are 2 custom >gate arrays for the memory ECC logic, the rest is microcode RAM, 2901s, >and a lot of PALs) is a wonderful piece of design. > >And as a hardware hacker, I really see little difference between an >11/730 or an 11/780 and the older PDP11s that I know and love... > >I have difficulty thinking of anything made by Sinclair as a classic. But >I know others will disagree, and for good reasons (given _their_ >interests). > >-tony

19 years, 1 month

Floppy disk sizes ( was Re: Compaq Portable III fails POST? )

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote : > On Wednesday 30 August 2006 04:17 pm, Chuck Guzis > wrote: > > But then, given the quality of the blank media > produced over the last 5 > > years, it probably doesn't matter anyway. > > I'll say! I've never had as much trouble with 5.2 5" > and 8" as I've had with > 3.5" in recent years. Not just the media, but th e > drives, too. > > -- I agree with the media part. Used to use Imation disks (bought from Argos here in the UK) for my Amiga games and stuff. The disks (particularly the casing) are rather poor, especially compared to old Amiga disks I have. I generally try to buy Verbatim disks, which are of a far higher quality, these days. However, they are hard to find - they can be bought online, but you need a PC/Mac running appropriate (e.g. up to date) software for the internet sites (and no, you can't buy them direct from Verbatim - they simply redirect you to other online sites). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 1 month

Floppy disk sizes ( was Re: Compaq Portable III fails POST? )

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: >> snip << > > My early Shugart 3.5" diskettes had no shutter. > Then came the manually slide open, and pinch the > corner to close. > Many fairly modern diskettes still have the little > arrow that pointed to > where you were to pinch it! > > It's too bad that the 3" didn't carry the field. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com > I always wondered what the arrow was for. Thanks for that Fred. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

19 years, 1 month

"File types"

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: "File types" > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:04:03 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> >Some of the CP/M tools used $ as a string terminator, if I'm remembering >> >right... > >On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Actually, it's BDOS call 9--preserved to this day in MS-DOS/Windoze. I've >> no idea why a printable character was selected as a terminator. Anyone >> have any idea of its origin? > >IIRC, I saw an interview long ago, (maybe when Gary Kildall was the >co-host with Jim Warren of Computer Chronicles?), in which Gary >APOLOGIZED for that, and said that it had been a temporary kludge, >and hadn't originally been meant to be permanent. > > >For their first assignment, I have my assembly language students write a >program to display their name AND the price that they paid for the >textbook (to force use of function 2, instead of 9). We then use creating >their own puts() function to get into jumps, conditional jumps, and loops. I did that once to annoy someone only the dollar sign was faked by adding 80h to it so the terminator was not observed by BDOS-9. Another time I modded CP/M itself to use null (00h) instead. Then again I didn't want it to be portable. ;) Allison

19 years, 1 month

SGI Dials & Buttons and no P/S

by david.l9.lewallen＠lmco.com

Hi; The usual pinout from the CPU to buttons is CPU 2,3,5 to Buttons 3,2,7 respectively. (9 pin) The power is 5 volts 850 ma with the center pin negative. (3mm circular plug) The cable from the buttons to the dials, i don't know. You only need power To the buttons box, the buttons to dials cable has a power wire. Some dials come with the cable as a pigtail. Note, the jack screws (posts) that the cable screws go into are metric. You might want to re-tap them to English 4-40 so most cable connectors will fit. The interface to this uses some kind of Unix GLUT. It is not defined down to the parameter block that goes out to the boxes. You will probably have to hack that. If you know anyone with the parameter block or protocol, please post. I believe the buttons is some kind of 32 bit mask setup. Good luck

19 years, 1 month

Philips PM3214 O-scope manual needed

by dm561＠torfree.net

Thanks, Don & Nico; my appreciative replies off-list. Still looking though... mike

19 years, 1 month

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

For the DEC uVAX gurus out there... [And, first, let me apologize up front for the length of this post, but as mostly a list skulker (of about 9 months), and a digest reader, I figured I'd toss in as many relevent details as I could.] Being the fortunate recipient of a nice collection of DEC gear, I've now turned my attention to a handful of uVAXen of various flavors. As I did with the PDP-11 RL cartridges, I'm first trying to image these uVAXen disks[1] before I do something stupid. Please be aware that I'm a complete VAX newbie and I consider this imaging a vital CYA insurance step to my eventual VAX/VMS/ULTRIX/BSD education. Since I don't have (at least to my knowledge, yet) a functional VAX that might do the trick, I've removed each drive and attached it to a known working WD1002-WA2 controller [2] running on a 40Mhz 386 box, with Debian Linux. I'm just using the dd command to image the drive to a file, which I'll burn off to a CD when I've got everything imaged. The reason I'm using such old hardware is a long story [3], but I have tested and proved this setup's functionality by imaging three MFM drives >from old PC-class system.with no difficulty. Which brings me to the DEC-related drives. After adjusting the Drive Select (set to drive 2, per IBM's twisted cable 'standard') and Write Fault (if extant) jumpers, *none* of the DEC-related drives are recognized by my test rig. I always get a "C: drive error / Press <F1> to RESUME" message. The drive's ready light is on, and all looks and sounds normal. For kicks, if I boot linux and try my dd command, it croaks with this type of message: hda: read_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error } hda: read_intr: error=0x10 { SectorIdNotFound }, CHS=0/0/1, sector 0 I get the same type of results when I use dd's seek=n option to other blocks (sectors). Strangely, it almost appears that there is no low level format on the drives, doesn't it? I'm not smart enough to make that call though, and it seems strange that *all three* drives show this same result. Is it possible that the original owner somehow 'bulk erased' the drives? I did, at least, expect to find formating marks. Is there something I've missed, trying to image these 'DEC' drives? Did I miss some not-so-obvious jumper somewhere (though I diligently examined all documentation I could find)? Surely, they're just good-ol' MFM drives, right? Jared [1] I'm imaging three different drive types: RD23-A (71MB Micropolis 1325), RD54 (159MB Maxtor XT-2190), and a Rodime RO-202 11MB drive from an AED WINC-08/05 RX01/RL02 emulation system. [2] Yes, I still have every computer I've ever owned, including two AT-class 286 machines made by Novell in the mid 80's. [3] Attempting to use the WD1002-WA2 in two different and more modern PC motherboards with onboard IDE interfaces proved a no go. Even after disabling the IDE controller (both primary and secondary) and the floppy controller in the BIOS there were some general flakiness, and I couldn't ever get the systems to recognize the MFM controller.

19 years, 1 month

AIX guru consult

by spectre＠floodgap.com

Request for AIX consult. Is this a parity memory error? The unit is a PPC 604e with 512MB of parity DIMMs, just installed last week. LABEL: MACHINECHECK IDENTIFIER: 9D972716 Date/Time: <censored> Sequence Number: 968733 Machine Id: <censored> Node Id: <censored> Class: H Type: PERM Resource Name: sysplanar0 Resource Class: NONE Resource Type: NONE Location: NONE Description MACHINE CHECK Probable Causes MEMORY MEMORY CONTROLLER SYSTEM I/O BUS Failure Causes MEMORY MEMORY CONTROLLER SYSTEM I/O BUS Recommended Actions PERFORM PROBLEM DETERMINATION PROCEDURES Detail Data MACHINE CHECK STATUS 81 MEMORY LOCATION BITS 16-31 OF SRR1, MSR 9078 TIME <censored> NEXT INSTRUCTION, SSR0 0009 1ED8 MACHINE CHECK ERROR STATUS REGISTER 0000 0000 MACHINE CHECK ERROR ADDRESS REGISTER 0000 0000 -- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Don't wear rollerskates to a tug-of-war. -- Larry Wall ---------------------

19 years, 1 month

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test-drb August 2006