test-drb August 2006

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

216 participants
517 discussions

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Perhaps I'm reading http://h30097.www3.hp.com/noncommercial-unix/ wrong, but the "full suite of development tools" certainly seems as though it would include compilers, although I guess that MBAs play with language often. I know for a positive fact that the VMS program includes compilers (C, C++, FORTRAN, BASIC, MACRO (VAX-MACRO on AXP)

18 years, 2 months

Hi, I'm new...

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I figured (as you would) that my harddrive > > > > > > Actually, I might not. My first reaction would > be > > to > > > stick a voltmeter on > > > the power lines. > > > > errr... no voltimeter here, nor do i have a clue > > where to buy one from (or how to use one). > > Note I said 'my first reaction'. I am something of a > hardware type... > > That said, I do feel that if you're going to run a > classic computer (as > opposed to running the software on an emulator), > then you are going to > have to learn a little bit about hardware and do > your own repairs. I make > no secret of the fact that I totally object to > making essentially random > changes (so-called 'board swapping') in the hope t he > machine will work > again. I feel the only way to keep one of these > machines -- in fact any > machine -- working is to make measurements, figure > out what the problem > is, and then correct it. The first 2 stages should > take a lot longer than > the last. If you're spending most of your time > changing parts, you're > probably going about it in the wrong way. > > As regards getting a meter, Maplin Electronics, RS > Components > (http://www.rswww.com) and Farnell > (http://www.farnell.com) all sell > them. Personally, I find the best multimeters > (combined > voltmeter/ammeter/ohmmeter) are made by Fluke, and > that's what I would > buy. Problem is they don't come cheap. > Realistically, you can probably > get away with a much cheaper (and less accurate) > instrument for this sort > of work. > > I have no idea what your background/knowledge is. A > good book on general > electronics is 'The Art of Electronics' by Horrowi tz > and Hill, but that > might be rather advanced for you at this stage. Al as > I don't know any > more introductory books than that. > As far as electronics go, it's practically zero. I know how the CPU works and runs everything , in theory, but I can't program in machine language yet. As for how the CPU and everything else works physically, I don't really know anything, but that is partly why I was keen to sign up to this list. > > > e > > > that to pass too much > > > current, but from my memory of the A500 circui t, > I > > > can't think of any > > > obvious candidate. > > > > > > > Ahem, it's an A600 I own ;) > > Yes, I know. I don't have an A600 circuit diagram. I > am assuming the > basic design, at least around the PSU input > circuitry, is going to be > similar. > Ahh, I see. > > > > > > > > Have you tried running the machine with the > cover > > > off to see what is > > > getting hot? It might be something as simple a s > a > > > leaking decoupling > > > capacitor. > > > > > > > I was planning too, but I had concerns about > > being electricuted (spelling?) as I had never > > If the PSU is external (as I believe it is), then > there are no high > voltages in the computer itself. The PSU outputs > +5V, +12V, and -12V to > the computer. None of those voltages is high enoug h > to give you a shock. > > The most dangerous voltage you are likely to come > across in classic > computing is the mains or a 350V DC voltage produc ed > by directly > rectifying the mains This turns up in what's calle d > 'Switch Mode Power > Supplies' (SMPSUs), and most computer supplies are > of this type. This > voltage is lethal. It's also likely to appear on > metal heatsinks, etc, in > such supplies. Don't work on one of those unless y ou > really know what you > are doing. > Ok... no heat sinks in my A600 :) > Monitors are often claimed to contain lethal > voltages. Well, there's > mains (and most colour monitors use an SMPSU> circ uit, so the hazard I've > just mentioned is there). But the even higher > voltages to the CRT are > generally only able to supply low currents, and ar e > unlikely to be fatal. > Don't take risks, though, 25000V is darn unpleasan t. > No problems there either, as I don't use a monitor. I plug my A600 into my TV via the RF cable. The picture quality is good enough for me. >> snip << > > > > > What would the "leaking decoupling capacitor" > > look like, if that was the cause? > > It will look like any other capacitor. The 'leak' is > an internal > electrical leak (a sort of weak short circuit). > You'd have to find it by > doing electrical tests. > > > > > Which is the capacitor? Anyone know? > > The thing about decoupling capacitors is that they > provide a local source > of energy for the various chips, thus avoiding the > voltage drop due to > the resistance, and more particularly the > inductance, of the supply > connections. Therefore there is one (or more) next > to each chip. And > there's no way _anyone_ can tell you which has > failed without doing more > tests. > Ahhh, ok. > -tony > > > > Probably best you didn't get the 16, as it's > > inferior to the 12! > > Come again? The 16 has a 68000 processor board (as > well as the Z80) and > runs Xenix (along with TRS-DOS and CP/M). The mode l > 12 is a Z80 only, and > runs CP/M and TRS-DOS, although I belive the 68K > board can be added later. > > > The 12 was actually made later than the 16 > > and supports various modes making it > > compatible with 16 and 4 (?) software > > (and hardware?). Infact I think the Model 12 > > I would be very suprised if the Model 12 could use > Model 4 hardware or > software. You certainly can't directly read M4 dis ks > in an M12 (due to > the fact the former uses 5.25" disks, the latter > 8"), for example. > > -tony I'm relatively new to the TRS-80, and can only go by what I have read in the issues of 80 Microcomputing I have. You, on the other hand, clearly are an expert compared to myself. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

18 years, 2 months

OT: Need Unix tech in Springfield, Missouri area

by kelly＠catcorner.org

Jay wrote... > >Chuck wrote... >> Ick. Floppy-tape--slow and unreliable. >> >> Surely the SCO box must be capable (or already have) a SCSI controller to >> hang a DLT or DAT from! > >I only need the floppy tape to get the data across once, speed is not an >issue. > >But moreover, it all depends on what is already built in to the kernel, and >as I recall, SCO has the QIC-80 driver built in by default. That tape drive >on the machine that died may well be QIC-02 and not SCSI. > >Jay I shut off my last SCO Unix box in February. My recollection is that QIC-80 required the FC10, and it was not built into the kernel. You had to at least recompile, and it may have required a special disk from the manufacturer of the FC10 (colorado?). QIC-02 support was easier if you have any of the drive/controller combos around. If they still have a floppy drive, and you tell me the version of the unix (send uname -A), I'll see if I have the TCP/IP install set. If so, I can image it and send it along. It supported a limited number of cards, but the 3c509 was one of them and they are still abundent on the surplus market. Kelly

18 years, 2 months

HP Plotter Ink

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

This is probably a bit off-topic, but as it specifically deals with using out-of-date supplies, I'm hoping no one will object and that people here might have some ideas. I've recently inherited a couple of plotter rooms with HP 1055CM and 5500PS plotters. These are the 36" to 42" variety, and the Ink cartridges and Plotter Head/Cleaner packs tend to each cost as much as a home Inkjet printer. I spot checked the supplies earlier this week and discovered that with very few exceptions most of it is out of date, with dates ranging from 2002 through 2006. Does anyone have any idea how safe it is to use old Ink or printhead/cleaner kits? How about any guidelines for when the stuff is to old. Obviously this is not the sort of question I can get a good answer >from HP on, as they're going to simply want to sell me new supplies. Unlike the home inkjets these do not seem to have any time-bombs built into them where they stop working after the date is passed. Thanks, Zane

18 years, 2 months

SPAM being let through by the moderators - why?

by javickers＠solutionengineers.com

This is a plea to whoever is allowing SPAM mail to be sent via the cctech list: Please!!! Look at the subject before you hit the "approve" button... if you're not sure if it's SPAM or not, then DEFER it, and (once you've approved those that are definitely OK), look at the text of the posts (click the "show details of all posts" link at the top of the list), and individually allow or discard posts accordingly. I do appreciate that if there's more than about 50 posts - and is basically impossible once the backlog of postings hits 1000+, this can be a right pain in the proverbial; but the whole idea of this moderation thing is to (a) keep stuff on topic, and (b) prevent spam from infesting the list. Cheers, Ade. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 03/08/2006

18 years, 2 months

classiccmp todo/idea list

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

New ClassicCMP website, current development is at http://dev.classiccmp.org --------------------- Home - blurb about classiccmp organization (need to write this text up) About - blurb about the hobby, how rewarding it is, why do it, all about classiccmp and how it can help (need to write this text up) Services - See list of ClassicCMP services below Member Login: This button takes users to a new page where people can log in and manage their membership to classiccmp.org. I'm thinking that all the sub-services (mailing list, etc.) can be managed from one user database. But more importantly, on this page they would get a list of all the services below, and they could check a selection box by each service as to if they want to be automatically emailed when anything in that section changes. Also offer vanity email addresses in the @classiccmp.org domain which forwards to their real email address. -------services-------------- ClassicCMP Knowledgebase This exists at classiccmp.org/kb but the look & feel needs to be matched to the new website style. Users can suggest categories which are added upon moderator approval. Track popularity (most views, last 5 viewed) of each article. Allow users to add to and rate each article. Users can submit articles which are invisible till moderator approval. ClassicCMP Links Database Organized in categories. Users can add links that are invisible until moderator approval. Users can rate links. Autocheck for dead links. Track clicks/popularity on each link. Users can suggest new link categories, which are added upon moderator approval. ClassicCMP Computer Picture Archive A database of classic computer pictures, organized by vendor by machine, searchable. Must allow a mechanism to show a credit if picture came from elsewhere, separate from showing what user uploaded it. Not just cpu pictures, but peripherals (disks, tapes, etc.). Primarily meant to be a archive for identification, not an extensive multipicture set of each system. Same capabilities/structure as the above, users can submit photos pending moderator approval, photo rating, etc. ClassicCMP Computer Books Database A database of book titles that are of interest to collectors. This could be books on collecting, or books on repair, electronics, or anything germane to the hobby. Include the full text of Kevin Stumpf's collecting guide (already have Kevin's approval). Users submit titles, rate books, perhaps contribute a short review, etc. ClassicCMP File Library Basically a web interface to the tons of files on the ClassicCMP server that no one knows about hardly (PROM database, bitsavers mirror, RT11 files, etc. Fully searchable, include a web based window into the local bitsavers files. Allow users to submit keywords for existing files, or submit new files, rate files, moderator approvals,new category suggestion, etc. NOTE: The knowledgebase, links database, picture archive, books database, and file library are identical except for basic skinning/presentation. One well-written module can handle all of the above "under the hood". For the above sections, members have full access. Non-members can only browse, and not rate items, vote, suggest categories, etc. ClassicCMP newsletter Online or via email or both? What's new with the classiccmp website, upcoming events of interest to the hobby, etc. Ebay picture hosting for members Allow ClassicCMP members to upload a limited number of pictures for linking to ebay auctions. Directory of trusted subject-matter experts Provide a list for members to contact of people who are subject-matter experts in specific areas that are willing to be contacted by those with specific needs (legal research, prior art, user questions, contracting/support work, etc.). ClassicCMP Pricelist "MarketWatch" Autotrack closing price of stuff on ebay and other auction sites and show statistics - hi,lo,avg, std. dev, avg time to sell, etc. I've seen this done for synthesizers. ClassicCMP mailing list Policy changes, combining lists, fixing archives, everyone already knows what this service is. #classiccmp channel on IRC List of guidelines, how to access, etc. Events calender Get a feed from ccn? Maybe just upcoming events in the collector community, hamfests, etc. Perhaps the best way to do this is simply let users put entries on the calendar (subject to moderation). ClassicCMP things to see in real life Just let people add places to a list, sort by state (museums, places to buy vintage computer stuff). Make sure to have a link to Evan's book so people can go to his site and buy it. Maybe let people enter notes on places other people have listed. ClassicCMP store Selling t-shirts, mugs, mousepads, calendars, etc. branded with ClassicCMP logo. Proceeds used to cover bandwidth & hardware upgrades on ClassicCMP server. Arbitration A group of appointed moderators will be available to settle disputes among collectors via binding arbitration (for trades, etc.) if the parties are willing to have a dispute/trade arbitrated. I remember two disputes in the last year that this may have helped with. Disposition of collection upon death Not sure if I'd want the liability of this. But perhaps it might fill a need if people want to have a collection dispensed a certain way after death. If they made a person the executor of the collection, that person may be out of the hobby after years, or personality conflicts, etc. But if they specify classiccmp to hold the documents on what to do, classiccmp (which hopefully goes on after me as an organization) can ensure the collectors wishes are followed. Not sure this is even possible to do, but it may merit investigating if this would be a service people would want (and we could provide). ClassicCMP media conversion services Provide a list of people willing to do media/data conversions for various hardware platforms. Users could submit their name, fees, email address (hidden by the site), a submission form for a quote, etc. ClassicCMP Rescue Squad I want to do something just like Bill Yakowenko's CCRS (classic computer rescue squad), where people can list the systems they are interested in and their location and contact info. So people disposing of systems can find a rescue'er (and rescue'er's could find rescue helpers!) close. Bill doesn't seem to be actively maintaining his, and I've tried to ask him before duplicating the effort but I can't get in touch with him. I'm ready to just do it anyway, so there is a continually maintained source of this good info for collectors. Wanted! I want to put up a "wanted" section. I don't want to compete with ebay or the vintage marketplace, so I don't want to track bids or anything. ONLY a place where people can post "I'm looking for this". Then have one item at a time rotate at the top of the home page? That would keep items in peoples mind that are wanted. Voting >From time to time it would be nice to put up questions for voting on, and site members could vote. This could be for mailing list policies, enhancements to classiccmp.org, selection of the classicCMP logo, etc. Leads! Giving a fair shot at "system available" leads. I probably get two emails a month directly to me from companies or individuals looking to dispose of gear. Most of the time, these leads are only given to me, not the list or other lists - so no one knows about them. Most (but not all) of the time I merely post these opportunities to the list and let everyone go after them. This penalizes people who don't read the list every hour. The people wanting to dispose of the gear may not like being contacted by 1000 people. It's just not as fair a process as it could be. So, I want a spot on the list where people can basically see each opportunity I get sent to dispose of classic gear, and enter into a lottery. This would allow gear I get notice of to be more fairly distributed.

18 years, 2 months

Not classic, but free: HP-UX (and the B2000)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Oh yuck. I re-read the service manual carefully and it sort of implies >that the unit has an EVC video connector. I've never seen one, so would >someone who has tell me if it's about the same size as an HD15F? The >picture is a little fuzzy, but it sure _looks_ like an HD15. No, EVC looks like a stretched DVI. 9000/B2000 is FXe, which outputs on a VGA-type HD-15. You're lucky. >Same deal as the SGI, then. Not a big problem, I'm used to gcc/g++! Nope, better: the development tools install and operate. Just consider yourself duty-bound to become a HP 9000 developer and promote the platform if you use them, and everything should be O.K.

18 years, 2 months

Hi, I'm new...

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > On 8/3/06, aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk > <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Is Gayle a capacitor? If not, what does she do? > > Gayle is one of the custom chips in the A600 - it > handles system > address decoding and the IDE interface. I don't > have an A600 (but > just about every other model of Amiga), so I don't > know if it's a DIP > or a PLCC package chip, but it's a chip, not a > capacitor. > > -ethan What's DIP and PLCC stand for? Are there any visual clues that can help me work out which type it is? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

18 years, 2 months

Relative Value of PGDP-11 CPUs; Was Re: Guys take a look...

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- mike perry <sales at azteqcorporation.com> wrote: > Do you still have any KDJ11-EB`s? > > I need some. > > Mike Perry > www.azteqcorporation.com > Just a thought Mike, but you might want to change your clock (if you haven't already). The year on your email was 2002... I only found it by accident (currently have 490 emails in my Inbox!). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

18 years, 2 months

PDP-11/05

by marvin＠rain.org

I'm just curious; I picked up a PDP 11/05 last weekend, but instead of the processor cards laying on their sides, these were standing up. This resulted in a configuration with two other plastic covers (one about 1" high below the standard 11/05 front panel, and the other about 7" above the front panel.) Is this a standard or optional chassis for the 11/05? I also picked up the dual cassette drive (no cassettes or software yet though), so it looks like a nice little system.

18 years, 2 months

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test-drb August 2006