On 8/6/06, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
> At 4:22 PM -0500 8/5/06, Scott Quinn wrote:
> >I'll give you Suns, I wasn't thinking clearly. They started going
> >downhill about 1998.
Hmm... so you put the split at about the A3000/A5000 timeframe? (I
was buying $$$$ in Sun equipment for Lucent in 1997 and 1998).
> Was it that far back :^( Sadly most of the Suns I have experience
> with are U60 vintage or older. At the same time I'd be inclined to
> blame the U5 and U10 for when they started going downhill.
I'd agree that U5s and U10s are built for the lowest cost possible. I
used to use a U5 in 1999 - it did make a nice X-Terminal. Glad I
didn't have to compile apps or do real work on it.
> Last version of OpenVMS for the VAX is 7.3, 7.3-1 is Alpha only. I
> believe the last version of VAX/VMS was 5.5-2H4. Yeah, I'm picking a
> couple nits here :^)
I've run 6.0 on a uVAX-II with an RD54... it was a *really* tight
squeeze, but it did (barely) fit. I thought that VAX/VMS went up
through 6.x and stopped at 7.0, or was it 7.1? Can't say for sure
without looking it up - since 7.0, I've been running VMS on Alpha
hardware.
-ethan
> When will the flamewar ever end? Is x86 the magical trolling word around
>here? I'm real sorry, I never knew that mentioning x86 systems here
>would cause such a dicussion.
Really, x86 isn't that bad when you consider that all of its failings are the reason for its triumph:
you can get a working computer that does everything that a single-user needs for $600, and it will have
decent reliability and capabilities. The disappointment comes in playing mind games to the effect of "well, think
what we could have if they just spent a bit more..." That and a disappointment that many "Computer Science/IT"
people think that Windows is so great that they won't bother to consider or even learn anything else.
I'll try to moderate myself. I don't want to be a grumpy old fart at 28, and it does increase list civility.
DOH... My bad... I thought it was a hpux system :-(
----------
From: Scott Quinn
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:36 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: HP3000/922 attemts at booting...a little farther now
>At the "ISL>" prompt, enter "hpux -is". This will boot the system into single user mode and automatically log you in as "root".
>
>-------
>
>When your in the system, you can change the root password:
>
>"passwd root"
>
>Just reboot he system "shutdown -r now" and let it follow the normal boot process.
So is MPE that similar to HP-UX? I thought it would be something semi-bizarre so I didn't pursue it at all (also the difficulty of finding a 3k and MPE media).
Had it slotted in with OS/400 in the "things that will be a huge headache and very expensive, so don't bother" class...
Not the oldest, but free and intact, apparently.
- John
>At 10:45 AM 8/5/2006, you wrote:
>
>>Hey John,
>>I'm sure what I have is not quite the vintage you're looking for but I would hate to have it wind up in a landfill. I was cleaning out my basement and found my first laptop - a Toshiba Satellite T2135CS. I have all the manuals and a full 40 disc set of back-up discs. Do you know anyone who might be interested?
>>Steve
Hi!
We're all using CDs of different kind (CDs containing data, audio CDs,
maybe even some with more interesting formats like those for some old
arcade games using the 30 MB of R..W subchannel information, ...)
I'm currently trying to gather as much information about the low-level
format of CDs as possible. While there's a lot at a first glance, it's
all mostly unuseable. Eg. the SCSI MMC-3 draft tells you how to get
some of the "interesting" data, but there's of course no reference how
to decode the data.
I've been looking for the "Rainbow Books" (Red Book describing Audio
CDs, ...), but those are quite expensive. Partial information is
available through standards of other kind (eg. most of the Red Book
became an IEC standard, too), but those are a bit expensive, too.
Did you ever come along detailed technical documentation about these
little silver beasts that'd allow to hack some nice extraction and
refactoring tools? Or do you happen to own one of the books and are
willing to hand it over to me for a week?
MfG, JBG
--
Jan-Benedict Glaw jbglaw at lug-owl.de +49-172-7608481
Signature of: Friends are relatives you make for yourself.
the second :
The reason I brought up System 10 is that it is the "best" microkernel implementation I have at this point
(the other one is a OPENSTEP box, substatntially older). Current Macs share much more with PeeCees
than SGI IRISes and Sun SPARCs, so there is most likely a non-insignificant amount of suboptimal hardware
that eats processor cycles like a cow eats grass to do things that a better arch. hands off and is done with.
I was hoping a OSF/1-DUNIX-Tru64 user would pop in a bit more about that platform (hoping to pick up most
of a AS4100 to try it out on soon). It uses the OSF/1 Mach-based system but on well-designed few-compromises
hardware.
>At the "ISL>" prompt, enter "hpux -is". This will boot the system into single user mode and automatically log you in as "root".
>
>-------
>
>When your in the system, you can change the root password:
>
>"passwd root"
>
>Just reboot he system "shutdown -r now" and let it follow the normal boot process.
So is MPE that similar to HP-UX? I thought it would be something semi-bizarre so I didn't pursue it at all (also the difficulty of finding a 3k and MPE media).
Had it slotted in with OS/400 in the "things that will be a huge headache and very expensive, so don't bother" class...
Bob,
Great...
When the system is booted in "Single User Mode", you will automatically be logged in as "root". Then you can change the "root" password, restart the system, then and login with full access to everything.
The boot process involves three steps.
1.) The "Processor Dependent Code" (BOOT ROM) is run. This is the BOOT ROM on the CPU card.
2.) The PDC reads the PATH from memory and loads the "Initial System Loader" or "ISL" from the disk.
3.) The ISL loads the OS from disk.
-------
So...
Reboot the system and when given the opportunity "Press Any Key within 10 Seconds.. Blah... Blah... Blah". This interrupts the boot process and allows you to step though it passing parameters as needed.
Next, you'll enter the "BOOT PATH" manually. IE "BOOT 4.1.0". When you enter the PATH, the system should prompt "Interact with ISL (Y or N)?".
Enter "Y". The system will now read the ISL from the disk and return a prompt to the operator.
At the "ISL>" prompt, enter "hpux -is". This will boot the system into single user mode and automatically log you in as "root".
-------
When your in the system, you can change the root password:
"passwd root"
Just reboot he system "shutdown -r now" and let it follow the normal boot process.
----------
From: Bob Brown
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 10:03 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; HP3000-L at RAVEN.UTC.EDU
Subject: RE: HP3000/922 attempts at booting...a little further now!
Wow! That helped a LOT! I can now get booted, the OS loads and I
get to a login prompt. Any pointers on
how to proceed at this point? (to get logged on, find out more about
how the system is configured etc)?
(I have no info on usernames/passwords on this system).
thanks!
-Bob
>> The system appears to have 2 internal HPIB disks and 2 external HPIB disks (in a separate rack). There are 2 HPIB boards in the chassis and 3 HPIB ports at the bottom
of the CPU (below the I/O chassis)...thus I have a potential of 5 places to connect the external HPIB drives to...I'm not sure where to plug 'em in.
>> The system has a default primary boot path of 4.1.0.0.0.0 and a secondary of 4.1.3.0.0.0
>> The external drives have ID's of 2 and 4.
Hey Bob,
I don't own a 922, but I do have several 832s. I think they are fundimentally the same.
The BOOT PATH "4.1.0.*.*.*.*" indicates that the system is loooking for a device with address "0" attached to the I/O card "4.1". The PATH "4.1.3.*.*.*.*" indicates that the system is looking for adevice with address "3" attached to the I/O card "4.1".
NOTE: The extra 0's are used to access additional disk partitions or parameters. Generally they do not need to be specified. The BOOT PATH could be abbreviated to "4.1.0".
Since the external devices are addressed as "4" and "2", they were not used as the PRIMARY or ALTERNATE boot devices. At this point, I would leave them unconnected. Once you get the system working, you can go back and attach the devices to see what is on the disks.
OK... The 3 HPIB connectors below the I/O cage are the connections to the internal HPIB devices. The system supports up to 4 internal drives in two chains. So, one HPIB connector goes to each of the two chains and the other connector goes to the internal TAPE DRIVE.
The ID plate by the connectors should tell you which connector goes to each chain. You are looking for the chain labeled "0" and "3". At this point, I wouldn't worry about the TAPE drive. Get the disks working first.
NOTE: When the system boots, the LEDS on the front panel will tell you how many internal disks there are. If your system has two drives, one of the internal chains has no devices attached. That's probably the case.
The two cards in the I/O card cage are the HPIB I/O cards. I don't think there was a "standard" installation so, the BOOT disks could have been attached to either I/O card. I would connect a HPIB cable from one of the I/O cards to one of the connectors below the cage and see if it boots.
NOTE: HPIB devices are generally "noisy" when thay are accessed. When the computer is talking to a HPIB disk, it's no secret.
NOTE: Don't change the addresses of the HPIB drives and don't move the HPIB I/O card in the cage. The OS will not boot if the PATH has changed. When the OS trys to mount the drives, it will fail because the PATHS are no longer legit.
Let me know if this helps.
See ya, SteveRob
