Hi
Did you manage to get a copy of the PLM compiler you were looking for?
Do you have any documentation?
Would you able to send me a copy of the Intel PLM51 manual if you have one?
Many thanks
BJ
>
>Subject: Re: LSI 11/2 question
> From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:15:25 +1200
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>On 8/17/06, Scott Quinn <compoobah at valleyimplants.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have the opporitunity of getting some LSI 11/2 boards (LSI 11/2 processor, some memory, serial MUX, RK floppy driver) (I think)
>
>If it's a floppy card, it's probably an RXV11. If you had an "RK"
>controller, it would most likely be the RKV11D which typically comes
>in its own box with cables to the Qbus enclosure with the CPU.
RK card is likely only the interface to an external box with the full
RK controller.
>The RXV11 will only work with the RX01 floppy drive or an RX02 with
>the internal dip switches set to act like an RX01.
Could also be RXV21, that works with RX02.
>
>> Couple questions: will the multiport serial work for a console or do I need a specific "console" card?
>
>A DLV11-J (the common 4-port card) has one port strapped for console use.
Any DL compatable card set to the console address and vector (176500/60)
>
>> Will these boards work in a VAX 4k BA430 chassis/backplane, or will the C/D wiring and DSSI over C/D throw them off?
>
>Hmm... don't know that off the top of my head, but I would think that
>if anything in the chassis is loading the C/D slots, you might have a
>problem with the memory refresh lines.
Unknown. The 11/2 does not do refresh and is only dual width.
>I have never used 18-bit Qbus equipment in a backplane that modern, so
>I can't comment from experience.
11/2 is not 18 bit, it is the dual width varient of the 11/03 the and
is a 16bit address microPDP-11.
Allison
Hi everyone,
Does anyone here know what the exact procedure is to generate an RSX-11M 3.2
system from distribution RL01s to an RL02? I'm trying to create a mapped
system for an 11/34 with 128KW of memory. The docs I 'm reading don't cover
3.2 (they're from bitsavers) and they seem to be a cross between RSX-11M
v2.0 (using the PRESRV program to copy the disk contents) and v4.1 (using
BRU.) I'm utterly confused and somewhat new to RSX. Any help would be much
appreciated.
Julian
Al typeth
>> Dude, I'm very interested in that stuph
>
>Anyone who uses "dude" and "stuph" in a sentence doesn't need to have
>anything other than a Linux box, preferably "modded".
With all due respect for the wonderful work done by Al and other classiccmp people, perhaps this
sentiment is a bit harsh. The message may not be worded exactly how the bulk of ClassicCmp people
would word it, but if the interest is there, why not encourage it? As regards the "doesn't need to have",
well, for the most part we probably don't need to have the vast majority of our boxes, but I enjoy mine
all the same.
The deal to get Don's old CP/M - MP/M computers - Altos - to a good home
collapsed. His widow needs to get rid of them and I can't store them.
Here's my old message describing them. Please, someone, provide a home for
this trove.
Note: I believe that all of this material is still available. I'm hoping
she hasn't disposed of any of it in the meantime. I don't think she has.
-----
Here's a list of items that must go. Ideally, a small number of people
would take this collection, so as to not divide it all up and make
shipping/pickup complicated. If the person who wants the Altos computer
wants the disks, I will probably fish out all the Altos, MP/M and
application (not the Milenium Systems disks) and bundle that with the
computer.
The drive cabinet can go separately. Anything I suspect is DEC-related can
go separately. The Millenium stuff is probably a separate item as well,
unless someone wants all of it. If there's no interest in this collection
as large units, it will go in smaller chunks to whomever wants it.
She's not looking for money for this material, but can't bear any costs, so
S&H is on you, plus some $$ for packing materials. Local pickup would be
much, much better.
Estate of Don S.
Photos are available for a few items: http://my.athenet.net/~uuhhuu/altos/
Content listing based solely on written or printed labels, may be
inaccurate, no further information (e.g. version numbers) is
available. ?Assy? = Assembler
Hardware: http://my.athenet.net/~uuhhuu/altos
Altos Z80 based computer, CP/M, MP/M or ?, 208k memory, dual 8? Floppy,
serial, parallel, etc.
Second Altos cabinet, dual Shugart 801 floppy drives, fan, and power supply
only. No motherboard. Was used in a rack for DEC drives.
Manuals
Manual, Shugart 1610-4 Intelligent Disk Drive Controller
MP/M II Programmer?s Guide (photo)
MP/M II User?s Guide (photo)
MP/M II System Guide (photo)
Digital Research CP/Net Network Reference Manual (photo)
Link-80 Operator?s Guide
Digital (DEC) Logic Handbook 1970
Manual: Adaptec ACB-4000 Series Disk Controller
Eight-Inch Floppy disks on East wall shelves
Utilities (shareware)
dBase II
Ashton-Tate ZIP
CP/M modem programs
PL1 BASIC 80
Supercalc V1.12
9250 Diagnostic
LK Link Parsing Util
Turbo Tutor
Pascal MT+
MP/M 1.14 (Millenium Systems)
Wordstar (Millenium Systems)
Z80 assembler (Millenium Systems)
MP/M 1.16 (Millenium Systems)
MP/M 1.16 + Wordstar 2.10 + MSI Utils (Millenium Systems)
6809 Assy + 8048 Assy + Z8000 Assy + MSI util (Millenium Systems)
Z80 Assembly (Millenium Systems)
Convert.com + Convert.prl (Millenium Systems)
9516 software release (Millenium Systems)
9520 demo programs (Millenium Systems)
9520 diagnostic (Millenium Systems)
Pascal Mt+ (Millenium Systems)
CP/M (Millenium Systems)
Wordstar ver 3.0
Wordstar 950 (possibly for Televideo 950?)
CP/M (Millenium Systems)
ZAS.COM + ZLK.COM + Z8TINS (Millenium Systems)
6800/6802 Assy (Millenium Systems)
UCSD PASCAL
SA 120-1 Alignment Diskette (Shugart?)
Utils
Wordstar 3.0 + Mailmerge + Spellstar
Supercalc
ISIS V4.2 System
TCS Accounting (9 disks)
Adventure
Eight-Inch Floppy Disks on North Wall Shelves
Altos Diagnostic (2 disks)
MP/M (Altos)
CP/M 2.02
Box of approx 80 disks, some RX01, some CP/M or MP/M, e.g. games, utils,
Zork, JRT Pascal, etc.
Box of approx 40 disks, mostly CP/M MP/M, e.g. dBase II, Modem 7, BDS C
1.44, user group software, terminal programs, terminal programs, ALGOL,
FORTH, BASIC, Fortran, Tiny C, Mp/M, Dazzler, PALASM
Osbourn Accounting
CP/M 2.24
DEC disks, probably RX01: TECO etc (black cardboard box)
CP/M + Wordstar
Altos
CP/M 2.24
Turbo for Altos
dBase II
Altos Diagnostic Executive 1.10 (original disk! pink box)
RT-11 boot disk (DEC)
Pascal
CP/M-86
Wordstar-86
Mailmerge-86
Spellstar-86
Jade Computer Products Double-D Disk Controller CP/M 2.2
[Internet] "Usenet is essentially Letters to the Editor without the
editor. Editors don't appreciate this, for some reason." --Larry Wall
--... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -...
tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc
WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531
I got the stuffed prototype boards back for my "unibus device emulator"
today.
Here's a poor picture (I was in a hurry)
http://www.heeltoe.com/retro/udisk/udisk_big.jpg
I powered it up and after fixing a few problems got everything on the
"top half" of the board to work, basically cpu, serial port, led's and
CF disk. I'll add some ttl chips tomorrow and check out the unibus
interface.
The (now out of date) docs are here
http://www.heeltoe.com/retro/udisk/index.html
It's a very simple design - basically an ARM cpu and a CPLD with lots of
unibus receives and transceivers. Most of the work is done in software.
The idea is the "personality" is specified by a file on the disk. There
is also a serial port and USB. Both CF and IDE notebook drives are
supported (a normal IDE can also be used with an adapter).
I will update the doc files and publish the schematics, cpld files and
source code - for non-commericial use anyway.
So far I've written some simple code to emulate an RL02. I think I'll
do an RK05 next. At some point I'll do a UDA50 also. It can also be
used to talk to other controllers, test ram, etc...
I don't know if it will actually work (yet), but it should be capable of
emulating ram, rom or any unibus device. All of the control signals are
there. The CPLD has two address comparators (with mask) which generate
an interrupt to the cpu. The cpu then runs the bus cycles "by hand".
I included the A,B parity lines also (to the cpld anyway) so it should
be able to do 18 bit i/o. At some point I'd like to con someone into
working on a massbus/rp03 style controller. This board should be able
to go into the "magic" unibus slot on a KS-10 (it's only magic because
of the bus hog disk controler which normally goes there).
If, once it works, anyone else would like one I'd like to make a run of
10 or so with gold edges (and no mod wires :-) I estimate the cost would
be about $200 each. Half of that is the pcb, the other half parts.
I'd be happy to sell blank boards also, if people like to solder :-) All
of the parts are available from Digikey, except the DS8641 & DS3862's.
I'm going to use DS8838's instead of DS8641's, because I have a few (I
need 2 per board). I also have about 200 DS3862's. The design uses 7,
so 200/7 = 28 :-)
it's just a hack, but should make my unibus machines happy :-)
-brad
Recent posts on the subject of "modern" logic families and PCB's
make me think of an obvious trend in computing over the past
several decades:
Power density (and required cooling/heat dissipation) have grown
greatly.
A desktop PC of 20 years ago often had no fan, or if it had one
it was just to generally keep air moving through the case and not
to cool any specific heat producing sections.
Of course modern desktop PC's (since at least the early/mid 90's) have
vastly greater heat production and cooling requirements, with CPU heat
sinks and fans being vital to reliability.
At the same time, and a subject of increasing frustration for me,
the number of computers required to do a given task has gone up
exponentially. Tasks that used to (meaning 20 or 30 years ago) used
to require a single PDP-8 or PDP-11 class minicomputer now use dozens
to hundreds of PC-clone's to do the same functions. The heat production
(and power and cooling requirements) of all the resulting PC-clones is
hugely higher.
In fact through the recent heat wave, computer/server usage is mentioned
as a sizable component of total power consumption on the grid, when
presumably 20 or 30 years ago it was negligible.
I personally see massive government/military contractor computer
projects turn into a race to buy the fastest/biggest/best/most computers
with little regard as to whether you need hundreds of blade servers
to run a single web site or mail server. It is also frustrating
to see Peoplesoft/Oracle/Microsoft sell thousands and thousands
of licenses at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars when the
same function used to be done by a single PDP-11 with a couple of
RK05's!
Yet nobody seems to be asking: WHY DOES IT TAKE 100 COMPUTERS TO DO WHAT
A SINGLE COMPUTER USED TO DO? After all, computers today are hundreds
of times more powerful (CPU-wise) than they used to be. Disk storage
is vastly more compact power efficient than it used to be.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure everyone should have the same
appreciation that those of us reading this message for "that computer
of 30 years ago is good enough for what I do". Yet I would expect
that any real demand for actual computer utility would make some
sort of progress other than "buy ten thousand seats of Oracle licenses
and several hundred oracle servers just to serve the needs of a single
municipal city government HR and payroll".
Some random articles about building sites where the required power/
cooling density is either explicitly addressed or in retorspect they
didn't have enough:
NSA risking electrical overload (Baltimore Sun):
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.nsapower06aug06,0,51374…
Google's Server Farm with massive cooling towers:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/17/BUGA3JUO7M1.DTL
OK, diatribe mode off. I'm going back to my 6SN7's and 807's playing
some old 78's I got at the thrift store yesterday.
Tim.
>
>Subject: Re: USR quad modems... (ontopic - really!)
> From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:35:41 +0100 (BST)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>> > a TI/USR DSP chip, which is prolly useless outside of the intended use
>>
>> Some of the DSP's are "general purpose" -- external program
>> store. However, since you called it a "TI/USR" part, I assume
>> it has a USR house number on it and, as such, is probably
>> a masked part. If so, "useless outside of the intended use" :>
>
>Unless either (a) the USB part number is just their code for a standard
>device (HP were fond of doing this...), or (b) you can disable the
>internal mask ROM and run it from external program store, say by changing
>the state of a pin.
>
>Without knowing more about the device I can't possibly know if either of
>these is the case.
>
>> > So, *if* I can get a Dynamic-RAM -> Static RAM converter board designed
>> > for the CoCo, I could upgrade 4 CoCo3s to 512K with each modem board.
>>
>> What's the issue *preventing* this from happening?
>> (unfamiliar with the internals of a CoCo3)
>
>The CoCo 3 is designed round a custom chip called GIME (Graphics,
>Interrupts, Memroy Enhancement). It handles all the video side, the
>memory mamangement (remmber the 6809 can only directly address 64K), etc.
>Said chip outputs a 9 bit multiplexed address (designed to link to the 9
>addres pins on 256K bit DRAMs), and the DRAM timing signals. It also
>expects 16 bit wide memory IIRC.
>
>It's probably possible to add external circuitry to turn that back into a
>normal 18 bit address and hang SRAM off it, but I think it's more work
>than finding some 41256s...
Way more work! 41256s are not hard to find and some of the related
flavours like 44256 could be used as well.
>> > Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
>> > zmerch at 30below.com
>> >
>> > What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
>> > and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????
>>
>> Use it to flavor your *tea*!
>
>As I commented last night, citric acid is ideal for cleaning up battery
>corrosion from calles with alkaline electrolyte (NiCds, alkaline primary
>cells, etc).
That or vinegar work well for cleaning up after burped nicads or some
fool charging Alkaline (durcells and the like) non-rechargeables.
FYI: I've found some off brands of nicads that if allowed to discharge
fully may leak. I had a few with the toshiba label on them do that.
Never seen Duracells ever do that. So quality pays.
Allison
>
>Subject: Re: PDP-8 /e/f/m memory
> From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:54:51 +0100 (BST)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>>
>>
>> Of 75 emails this morning, 44 (including 4 of mine) were on the subject of
>> PDP-8 memory. From those only two provided any information on the subject.
>> A few were well off track. Signal to noise -13db! In any other media
>> that far down in the noise would be an unreadable signal.
>
>Oh come on....
>
>Firstly, this is, as I am sure you agree, not a list to provide answers
>to members questions. It's a discussion list. So of course topics are
>going to drift (alas they sometimes drift too far in odd directions, and
>I'll admit to causing that sometimes)
Indeed! Most of those emails were thread drift.
>Secondly, we don't know what you know. Both in the sense that you are a
>very experienced hacker, and have more knowledge on many subjects than
>the rest of us. And in the sense that even if we both know something, I
>don't know that you know it. So of course there'll be messages that
>'state the obvious'.
Very experienced hacker and professional engineer.
>And finally, if somebody makes a statement that you believe to be in
>error it is, I think, sensible to explain why you think it's wrong. That
>way we all learn something.
If it were only that.
I thought the avalanche if posts on the subject vaguely curious and
somewhat funny.
Allison
Hi,
I've got a couple of cubic feet of MULTICS manuals, here.
Should I put them in the "to be scanned" pile or the "to
be shredded" pile?
[Hmmm... did I ask this question already? I can't find
reference in my Sent folder :-( ]
Thanks!
--don
