...beige (off white) TRS-80 model 4, 3 floppy drives,
amber monitor, silver plate under reset button that
says Stevens 128k. Some passer by suggested it had
something to do with a technical college in Hoboken,
NJ, another meanderer said they only used DECs and
such. All 3 floppies were scanned for a boot floppy
apparently (blink...blink...blink). Pristine condition.
__________________________________________________
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Hopefully someone nearby can save this. As someone has pointed
out, this machine really needs to be saved. It is a pretty large
system, and may have the sources for Salford University's FTN77
compiler on the backup tapes.
"Eric F." <elf at ucsd.edu> wrote:
> Eric F. wrote:
>
> > Actually, I saw (and used) the original ZORK running on an SDS
> > (later XDS) Sigma 7 computer (the actual ARPAnet machine name
> > was MIT-DMS).
>
> Apparently I fired off my original reply prematurely. The original MIT
> machine running ZORK (MIT-DMS) was, in fact, a PDP-10. But I'm quite sure
> that one of the other machines back there (i.e., MIT-AI, MIT-MC, or MIT-ML)
> was an SDS Sigma machine (or even an SDS-940).
>
> Sorry for my mis-informed post. :0
I had an account on MIT-AI, and that was definitely a PDP-10. I'm very
sure that MIT-MC also was a PDP-10. MIT-ML however I don't know about.
As for ZORK, it was definitely written on a PDP-10. Infocom rented time
on a PDP-10 for quite a while. I know I've also seen mentioned somewhere
at one time that they even had their own -2020 for a while, but I'm not
sure I remember correctly.
If ZORK were ever to run on any other machine that machine first and
foremost would have to have MDL. You know if SDS had that?
Second, ZORK used a lot of memory. Unless the OS supported virtual
memory, and a fairly large address space, that would also stop it.
Appearantly ZORK on the PDP-10 needed over 600K to run (if that is bytes
or 36-bit words I don't know, but I suspect bytes).
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Steve,
Happened to type in Qwint Systems and ran into your web site. I ran into stuff I had saved from when they had moved from Northbrook to Lincolnshire that I think I garbage picked. I also have a brand new teleprinter in its original plastic shipping brief case. with the manual and several sets of software that are for that unit. I also think i have a few of the old time modems, and some of the prom burners to (black boxes with the key pads) if you rememeber those. Oh well any interest hit me back Marty
People have been bouncing ZORK, DUNGEON and Infocom around a while now.
Let's clear this up once and for all (I hope).
First there was ZORK. That's it, just ZORK. No numbers, no nothing.
This program was written in MDL and ran on PDP-10 systems only.
MDL is a Lisp-like language implemented at MIT. You're probably out of
luck if you ever want to play the original ZORK on anything but a PDP-10.
A person at DEC managed to get the hands on the sources of ZORK. This
person then did an implementation in FORTRAN, based on the MDL sources.
This is the "paranoid DEC engineer who prefers to remain anonymous".
The copyright on these FORTRAN sources say "(c) 1980, 1990 INFOCOM", by
the way.
The authors of the MDL ZORK then started a new company whose first
product was ZORK. This was a rewrite of the MDL ZORK, in a new language
that they developed for this purpose, called ZIL. The ZIL compiler
generated code for a virtual machine called the Z-machine. And Infocom
also wrote Z-machine implementations for most of the popular computers
in the early 80s, including the PDP-11.
This ZORK was 75% based on parts of the MDL ZORK, and 25% completely new
stuff. Later is was renamed "ZORK I", when the sequel "ZORK II" came out
(which was 50% MDL ZORK, and 50% new stuff).
So, this leaves os with two ZORK, and one DUNGEON. Are they the same?
No. But they all originated in the MDL ZORK.
ZORK I was a reimplementation by the same persons who wrote MDL ZORK.
New language, new parser, some new stuff, some stuff from MDL ZORK cut
out, and probably some improvements as well.
DUNGEON was a reimplementation from a version of the MDL ZORK, but
written in FORTRAN. This wasn't even from the final version of the MDL
ZORK. However, new stuff in the MDL code somehow usually got implemented
in the FORTRAN version as well a bit later.
Infocom only released ZORK I as a commercial product for the PDP-11.
ZORK II and ZORK III never was. And if I remember correctly, they only
released a version for RT-11 on one 8" floppy.
However, as I said above, when Infocom started making the commercial
product, they did it together with a virtual machine. So, as long as you
have an implementation of that virtual machine, you can play any of
their released titles.
So, for the PDP-11 then, we have:
The DUNGEON implementation (FORTRAN).
ZORK I, from Infocom.
ZEMU, which is my implementation of the Z-machine.
With ZEMU, you can play almost any Infocom game, and ZORK I, II and III
are available on the net. So it's no big deal to get these on a PDP-11
today.
DUNGEON was slowly extended, and then moved over to VMS instead, and
changed enough that recent versions can't really compile on a PDP-11.
I've backported DUNGEON to RSX-11M-PLUS. But you can forget ever getting
it working in an OS without support for split I/D-space. But if someone
is interested in this, just let me know, and I'll help you out.
ZORK I from Infocom was the game file for ZORK I, along with their
implementation of the Z-machine for the PDP-11. I've never tried it, nor
do I know anyone who have a copy. However, it's pretty pointless except
as a curiosity item. I'm pretty sure my implementation is better, so if
you just want to play the games today, I'd say you better go with ZEMU.
Various C version can nowadays also be found. They are a translation
>from the FORTRAN version.
ADVENT have also been mentioned now, and just for the sake of
completeness I might add that ADVENT is a totally different game, and
the inspiration for the people who wrote ZORK. ADVENT is written in
FORTRAN, and there are numerous versions out there, with different
people having made additions and modifications.
And ZEMU *should* work on RT-11. I have a suspicion that maybe one or
two routines might be missing. If they are, it will takes us close to
zero time to fix it, if just someone with RT-11 steps up to the plate.
I don't have any RT-11 systems, nor much RT-11 knowledge myself. I can
write some code, but I definitely can't test it.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> The National Archives in Norway has an M4 with a full complement of
> documentation.
I'm sure Jay West would appreciate schematics for the 9914 if they have
them. The normal service manual does not include them.
"Gooijen, Henk" <henk.gooijen at oce.com> wrote:
> I tried the latest Zemu (2003) to compile under RT11XM.
> I don't know how to capture the command file result output in the CMD
box,
> except by making a screen shot, converting it to .gif, but I can not send
> that to the CC list ...
> I get 3 errors from ZIO and 19 errors from ZMEM.
> They all seem to have a problem with an operand field construction
#^X82,R1
> or #^0E,-(SP). And in ZRT I get a .LIBRARY /SY:SYSTEM.MLB/ file error.
> I seem to remember that these were exactly the problems I had back then.
> It loks I am still stuck ...
Ooo.
Okay... Two problems.
The first one is easy. You're just using an old enough version of
MACRO-11 that it don't understand hex values.
^Xnn just means hexadecimal. Convert to octal and replace, and that
problem is solved.
You know:
#^X0E -> #16
The second problem, the SYSTEM.MLB is harder for me to tell.
Try to just comment the line away, and see what (if any) errors you get.
This is code Megan wrote, so it's a bit more unfamiliar to me.
But all it is, is just macro definitions that (I guess) more recent
versions of RT-11 provide for you.
If we just locate those macro calls, we can either write the macros
directly into the code, or perhaps live without them, instead.
This shouldn't be hard to fix really.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
<a.carlini at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
>> A person at DEC managed to get the hands on the sources of ZORK. This
>> person then did an implementation in FORTRAN, based on the MDL
>> sources. This is the "paranoid DEC engineer who prefers to remain
>> anonymous".
>
>
>"the paranoid engineer" came out later on though - are we
>not allowed to speak his name?
I wasn't sure that he had come forth. But looking at more recent
versions of DUNGEON, he do have his name in there, so I guess it's okay
to say that it was Bob Supnik.
I still kindof like that early request for anonymity, though. :-)
He really was mad to decide to implement this stuff in FORTRAN. Really
good work by him to pull it off...
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Josh Dersch <derschjo at pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
> I'm trying to get my PDP-8/e running a "real" OS (as opposed to loading
> programs one at a time from papertape).
>
> I've had an RX02 drive (supposedly working) in my possession for some
> time, and I just need to find a working M8357 to seal the deal. I
> currently have a non-functional M8357 -- I get an error code from the
> dirxac diagnostic that translates to "Unexpected Transfer Request
> Flag." I'm not much of a hardware hacker, unfortunately, so I'm in no
> position to debug/repair the board.
>
> If anyone out there has an M8357 they're willing to part with, or has
> the ability to repair these things, please let me know.
>
> Thanks!
I could probably fix it for you. My main problem is time.
How important is it?
(And I'm sure there are lots of others who also could fix it.)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
>>> I tried the latest Zemu (2003) to compile under RT11XM.
>>> I don't know how to capture the command file result output in the
CMD box,
>>> except by making a screen shot, converting it to .gif, but I can
not send
>>> that to the CC list ...
>>> I get 3 errors from ZIO and 19 errors from ZMEM.
>>> They all seem to have a problem with an operand field construction
#^X82,R1
>>> or #^0E,-(SP). And in ZRT I get a .LIBRARY /SY:SYSTEM.MLB/ file
error.
>>> I seem to remember that these were exactly the problems I had back
then.
>>> It loks I am still stuck ...
>
>
> What version of RT-11 are you trying to build it on? The error in
ZRT seems
> to indicate you're building it on to old of a version.
Definitely a slightly older version of RT-11. That should be dealt with,
and ZEMU should be made to compile on that too.
> Where can the latest Zemu source be found?
ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/zemu.tar
Hmm, I wonder if I might have made changes lately that aren't in there.
I'll check and if neccesary, update this tar file.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
