>
>Subject: Re: VTSERVER booting
> From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com>
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:45:44 -0400
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>>>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org> writes:
>
> Patrick> On Monday 20 June 2005 12:12, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >> Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21, 11/23, 11/24,
> >> 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60.
> >>
> >> Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73, 11/74,
> >> 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94.
> >>
> >> Did I forget any? :-)
>
> Patrick> Pro 325 & 350 - Non-split I&D (F11) Pro 380 - Split I&D
> Patrick> (J11)
>
>Sure. And if you're going there, there are also the PDT110, 130 and
>150 (non/ID I assume, but I'm not sure what's inside).
>
> paul
PDT-11/xxx
The PDT series are essentialy the same, a 8085 to handle serial IO
plus a biderectional 8bit parallel port to either nothing (/110),
a parallel IO varient of the TU58 (/130) or a board with another
8085 and 1771 FDC to run two 8" RX01 compatable floppies (/150).
The chipset is KD11 (same as LSI-11 and 11/2) sans KEV11 FIS.
Runs RT11 and maybe other stuff. Programming the IO is a bit more
sane that PRO and some ports emulate DL interface and lines but,
it's still not standard unibus or Qbus 11.
Allison
(this is a copy of a message I just sent to the comp.os.cpm user group. I'm
relaying it here since these are the two pools of people who might have a line
on the information I seek -- sorry to those who lurk both here and there).
I was recently given a Data Science XOR computer system, the version with four
S-100 slots. There is precious little information on the web -- the one web
site with any real information gives credit to "dave coughlin" for the
information, but the email address is no longer good.
Anyway, here is what condition it is in:
The outside of the box is all gummed up and yellow from 20 year old cellophane
tape that was used to hold the case together (I'm not sure why the previous
owner didn't use screws). A 2"x4" window was put in the side of the case so
that the serial port baud rate dip switch could be accessed (why so big a
hole?). The insides are pretty dusty and grungy. There are three boards, all
Data Science designs it seems. One is the Z80 CPU (4 MHz), two serial ports,
one parallel port. The next is a 64 KB DRAM board. The last is the disk
controller, with connectors for 8" and 5.25" drives. There are two 8" half
height drives in the box. The 50 pin cable from the controller to the drives is
missing. The parallel port connector is missing.
Nevertheless, after slowly powering up the system with a variac and messing with
the baud rate settings, I get the monitor prompt.
XOR DATA SCIENCE
SYSTEM MONITOR
VERS 01.85
F800
I've figured out most of the commands from trial and error, but I'm not sure
what the H and X commands do even though I know the parameter syntax. I'm not
sure how to boot (if I am ever able to get a boot disk).
Unless somebody on this list remembers this monitor, I guess I'll disassemble it
(it is 2KB located at F800 to FFFF) and figure it out myself. Better yet, if
anybody has a pointer to documents or can and is willing to make a boot disk for
me, please reply.
In the mean time, I'll work on de-gunking everything.
Thanks.
Hi list,
I didn't succeed in getting rid of these last time, so I'm posting them again:
I have 2 sets of BA23 skins available. One is totally complete, the
other one is missing (IIRC) the velcro-on rear cover which hides all
the cables, and there is a chunk missing out of the base foot. I think
one (IIRC, the good one) still has its little transparent plastic
envelope stuck to it holding the DEC maintenance card.
If you want either/both, please make an offer by private mail. Offers
can be from "free" upwards :) Priority will be given to anyone who
will come and pick them up (West Yorkshire), but I will ship anywhere
as long as you're prepared to a) pay all costs, and b) wait for the
amount of time it'll take me to track down boxes big enough for them.
Ed.
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to> wrote:
> >Johnny Billquist wrote:
>
> >Sellam asked if anyone would be able to tell that Magica (a real PDP-11)
> >have been replaced by MIM (an emulated PDP-11).
> >
> >The answer is yes, and no.
> >The only telling thing is the speed. It is much faster than a real
> >PDP-11/93, which it emulates. But apart from that, I can't see how you
> >could tell.
> >
> Jerome Fine replies:
>
> It also depends on how much of E11 you decide to use.
Um, no. If you setup E11 to emulate an 11/93, it will emulate an 11/93,
and you won't be able to tell the difference apart from the speed.
> (a) It is possible to define and implement unused PDP-11
> instruction codes that NO real PDP-11 ever uses! My first
> preference would be 32 / 64 Bit Integer Add / Subtract
> Instructions.
That would probably be very low on my list, for several reasons.
1) Doing arbitrary length add/sub with the existing instruction set is so
easy it's silly, and with plenty of speed, there is nothing to bother
about from that view either.
2) You already have 32-bit integer add/sub in the FPP.
3) Since available opcodes are restricted, you'd have to either implement
a prefix opcode, or have severly restricted arguments for such
instructions.
Mentec implemented one additional instruction that really is useful, and
which atleast RSX will use, if it finds it, and that is a block copy
instruction. I don't even know if it has a mnemonic. Moving large chunks
of memory is something the systems does a lot in I/O, so that really helps
if it can be done faster.
> (b) John Wilson has a DLL which allows a PDP-11 user to
> directly access the PC RAM: via a "register" in the I/O
> page. The file is EMEM.DLL (Emulated Memory). Eventually
> I intend to replace the uses of the "hardware MMU" in the
> software with the EMEM.DLL so that I don't waste the whole
> 8,192 bytes of the PAR devoted to the use of the MMU. It
> will also be much faster and can be as large as the user
> wants - as much memory (100s of MBytes from PC RAM:) as
> the PC has available for E11 to use. This would be for
> VIRTUAL A(100000000) in FORTRAN, something impossible
> with a real PDP-11.
I don't really understand how this is related to the MMU, but anyway,
we're just talking of a device here, which interfaces to a larger storage.
No different than a number of other devices.
The MMU is a different deal, and handles virtual to physical address
translations.
> (c) The MTPS instruction could be modified to have a value
> that would specify E11 in addition to any other PDP-11.
Sure.
> At present, only (b) is actually available - although this
> could be done in hardware for a real PDP-11 so it would not
> really say it is not a PDP-11/93. But (a) and (c) could
> also be done very easily. Does anyone else have any other
> requests that they consider important?
Anything can be done (obviously), but not much makes much sense. The block
copy instruction is among them.
Personally, I'd like to see the full stuff of the 11/74 implemented.
I'd even be willing to do some work for it, just to see RSX running in MP.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>through 1978. Are these already on-line somewhere or
>does someone what to scan them and post them?
I had a quick look on Manx (http://vt100.net/manx)
and I cannot find anything with "news" in the
title. If that is indeed what the title is, then
they appear to be not online and sound like they
are well worth hving online. The corresponding
RT-11 fasicles were called RT-11 Software Dispatch,
IIRC - be nice to see those too, in case someone
has a pile lurking somewhere!
Antonio
-----------------------------------------
Email provided by http://www.ntlhome.com/
Ethan,
I can remember (several years ago) my first 6809 kit (bus-based)
that had a 512x256 pixel-addressable graphics option. That Euro board
was TTL and one littlr PROM for RAS/CAS generation. Originally it had
4116 on them, but 3 power voltages with requirements in the order how
they came up (and went away) from the 4116's made me change the 4116
into 4164's. 3-quarter of all the 4164's is not used, but they are
single +5V. Works perfect, but I can't remember what I did with the
two old 4116 power supply pins. AFAIK is is obvious when you compare
the pin of both, at least it was t me at that time.
Ah yes, there was also one extra "address" pin, IIRC. Tie that to GND
or +5, or put a switch (or software controlled output pin to it)
There is your basic "bank-switching"!
success,
- Henk, PA8PDP.
> Also... does anyone know about the differences between 4116 and 4164
> chips enough to answer the question if one could use 4164s as long as
> one a) prevents the non-TTL supplies from reaching the chips (modify
> board, modify sockets, modify pins...) and b) possibly tie up or tie
> down the extra multiplexed address input. Can you refresh 1/4 of a
> 4164 and have just that part stay refreshed? I ask because I have a
> serious wad of new 4164s from COMBOARD stock, but 128Kw of 4116s
> (8 x 12) is more than I have lying around.
> -ethan
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> > >>>>> "Johnny" == Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> >
> > Johnny> Almost. Non I/D: 11/03, 11/05, 11/10, 11/15, 11/20, 11/21,
> > Johnny> 11/23, 11/24, 11/34, 11/35, 11/40, 11/60.
> >
> > Johnny> Split I/D: 11/44, 11/45, 11/50, 11/53, 11/55, 11/70, 11/73,
> > Johnny> 11/74, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94.
> >
> > Johnny> Did I forget any? :-)
> >
> > T-11 :-)
>
> Isn't that covered by the /21 (strictly the SBC21 -- the 'Falcon')?
Well, there are more machines using the T11 as well.
> I suppose you could include the Pro 325 and 350 (no I/D, F11 chip) and
> the Pro 380 (split I/D, J11 chip). But those will not run normal PDP11
> software, the I/O is totally different I believe.
True, the I/O is different, but the architecture is the same, so as long
as you have an OS doing I/O for you, you can run the same software.
RT-11 can boot on a PRO, and P/OS is a derivate of RSX, so you can run RSX
software on it as well.
And then we have Venix. And I believe BSD2.9 worked as well.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I picked up more DEC parts from Thom today including several M8350
cards. All I can find out about them is that they're "KA8E posibus
interface". Can anyone provide more details?
BTW does anyone have any suggestions about cards that I should be
looking for?
Joe
Well, it seems I've now got hosting space for said archive!
Now, I need software to put up!
Don't exactly have a holding place at the moment, so any
Method to get me a few pieces to put up to start us off
Would be REALLY appreciated!
Argh, deleted my mails before I remember to answer one.
Sellam asked if anyone would be able to tell that Magica (a real PDP-11)
have been replaced by MIM (an emulated PDP-11).
The answer is yes, and no.
The only telling thing is the speed. It is much faster than a real
PDP-11/93, which it emulates. But apart from that, I can't see how you
could tell.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
