test-drb December 2005

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

235 participants
580 discussions

trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100and6809)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100and6809) > From: "Robert Armstrong" <bob at jfcl.com> > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:21:43 -0800 > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > > And sadly, any practical 6100 design will never run OS/8 without a lot of >extra hardware to implement the EMA. > >Bob EMA (without some of the timeshare wizzies) is not bad really in TTL. You need two three bit and one 6 bit register and the mux logic. Around that goes the IOT decode. And you can cheat and only implement an 8I and trim the IF and DF register to one bit for only 8kw ram. Which really reduces the hardware. It's also possible to extend it as there was a 8A version that could address 64kW (4 bit IF and DF). A few gals would make short work of it all. Like I'd said about the Intersil Sampler board, 4kW is not enough sometimes. so I did do the 8I minimal EMA (8k). The IF and DF regiser is a single 74ls74 and the SF register is also a 74ls74 the rest is interrupt logic (1ff) and addressing mux the IOTs are per DEC save for the active bits. By reducing the number of bits the logic needed (raw chip count) goes way down. However the 6120 really does make it a lot easier and it's faster too. Allison

18 years, 4 months

trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100and6809)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100and6809) > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:11:11 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>There are other CPUs like 8085, Z80 and relatives with sims around for them. >>Never minding 6800 and 6502s. So its a matter of taste. >> >> >> >The 6100 makes a nice basic PDP-8 but remember the 8 requires paper tape >for the basic system. And thats a problem because??? If your using a TTY then tape is already there. Building a reader is trivial, I've done it. If you arr the kind that cant well you still want the interface to match up as you use a PC as PT:. Most will opt for the latter as there are a lot of "tapes" on line. The biggest limitation with the 6100 is 4k of memory. I have an Intersil Sampler and it's fun to use but 4KW is a big problem. Then it's build an EMA (in ttl it's not bad) or find a 6101 MEDIC which has the EMA in it. >>In all cases having a sim for the target machine will make design work and >>software more real and less dreaming. >> >I find it the other way around, sims seem less real than hardware >sitting on board even the design >is never finished. A magnetic tape drive and old I/O does seem to feel >like a massive computer >even if todays equivelant fits on a stick of chewing gum. Yes, but if your developing software a sim allows you to do that while waiting for a part or whatever. I have the same general complaint as it's not real hardware and I cant test my construction. Often I can test the logic or develop test or driver programs. Allison

18 years, 4 months

trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100 and 6809)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I'm slowly starting to figure out what I want to do- the suggestions from the group seem to point towards 6809 or IMS6100 for the processor, so now I'm looking at representative designs to springboard from (first project). Found several online 6809 designs, but only one 6100 (at www.sparetimegizmos.com) Are there any good print resources on these? (other than the bitsavers/manx resources on PDP-8 and DECmates)? (I have datasheets)

18 years, 4 months

trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100 and6809)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: trying to design my first micro- looking for "prior art" (6100 and6809) > From: compoobah at valleyimplants.com > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 19:41:17 -0600 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm slowly starting to figure out what I want to do- the suggestions from the group seem to point towards 6809 or IMS6100 for the processor, so now I'm looking at representative designs to springboard from (first project). Found several online 6809 designs, but only one 6100 (at www.sparetimegizmos.com) Are there any good print resources on these? (other than the bitsavers/manx resources on PDP-8 and DECmates)? (I have datasheets)=0D=0A=0D=0A When you say print resources be more specific about what you looking for. I'm sure the info is available. Check out Dave Dunfields 6809 portable page at: www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum A very buildable and straightforward design. With a simulator as well and software that is interesting. I'm doing a varient on this one as the CUBIX OS is refreshing and fairly well documented. The sim allowed me to play with 6809 and the OS on the PC. Now if you've been to Bob's page www.sparetimegizmos.com then also check out a PDP-8 sim (win-8). The STG design is a really nice one as it really does the console as DEC PDP-8 complient rather than decmateII/III flavor. Makes a difference when your running paper tape software. [yes i know you can patch it but.. why if you dont have to.] There is a third choice the 1802 aka COSMAC or more common as the ELF. There are sims for that too. There are other CPUs like 8085, Z80 and relatives with sims around for them. Never minding 6800 and 6502s. So its a matter of taste. In all cases having a sim for the target machine will make design work and software more real and less dreaming. Allison

18 years, 4 months

Old MS-DOS & WIN Software

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

where you at? --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: > M H Stein wrote: > > >I'm getting rid of several large boxes of old MS-DOS & WIN > >software, OSs, apps, languages, utilities, games, etc. > > > >Also boxes of hardware such as PC MoBos, cards, keyboards, > >external print buffers, converters, <=9600bd modems etc. > > > >I realize without a detailed list this is rather vague, but I'd like > >to know if there's any interest in this sort of stuff to make it > >worth while actually making that list. > > > > > > > Do you have any PCB layout and schematic capture programs? > > >If not here, maybe someone knows of another list where someone > >may be interested? > > > >TIA, > > > >mike > > > > > > __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com

18 years, 5 months

More parts I need to replace on the VT100

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi I would suggest that you get your self up on reading schematics. Resistors rarely just burn up without there being some other cause. Just replacing the resistors will most likely result in more burnt resistors if it is powered up without locating the reason for the resistors to burn in the first place. Many IC's and transistors show little to no visual indications that they are shorted inside. I don't know how one can find these without understanding where the resistors are in the schematic and how the resistors are being used. Dwight >From: "Julian Wolfe" <fireflyst at earthlink.net> > >Okay, I pulled the power supply on the VT100 after replacing the two video >board components, only to find 3 resistors on the PSU burned out. I know I >should probably get a book on how to read a schematic (I will soon) but in >the meantime can someone tell me what these resistors are? > > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~fireflyst/images/burnedpsu.gif > > > > > >I copied a portion of the diagram image on page 23 of the VT100 found at: > > > > http://vt100.net/mirror/antonio/mp00633.pdf > > > >If someone could tell me what resistor is what, that would be awesome. > > > >Thanks again for everyone's help (and time) > > > >Julian >

18 years, 5 months

New Toy- 8088 SBC

by chenmel＠earthlink.net

I competed in the horserace called eBay last week and acquired what to me is a wonderful piece of hardware- A commercially produced 8088 single board computer that uses ALL TTL logic except for the 8088 processor itself. It has a compliment of 8 bit input and output ports made with 20-pin TTL chips, and the docs include full schematics. I can now adapt the design to other 8088 SBC computer ideas I have. It has a BASIC interpreter in ROM and the console is over a serial port. It apparently can burn EPROMs on-board and has about five open sockets for adding code. It's all on about a 5"x7" card and hails from the year 1992. It has, uh, all the power of a current-generation PIC from Microchip, but in a much neater package. It's a Vesta Technology, Inc. SBC88A.

18 years, 5 months

More parts I need to replace on the VT100

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: More parts I need to replace on the VT100 > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:41:54 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:53:21 +0000 (GMT) >ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > >> > >> > Thanks for all the advice, and no, I didn't find any offense whatsoever in >> > your post. I think you for the advice and I checked that book out from the >> >> You;'d be suprised. Some people take offence at being told what they >> consider to be obvious. >> >> > library here at work (I work at a community college) >> >> It''s not a cheap book, but I'd strongly advise buying your own copy. It >> is not a book you are going to grow out of quickly (if at all, I consider >> that I have a reasonable understnading of electronics, but I still often >> lookt in TAoE). It's one of those books that I think every hacker should >> own (along with the 'Minix book' we discussed last week, K&R, etc). >> > >I have the first edition (black slipcover) and bought it back when I was making a mere $4 an hour in the early 80's. And I have never regretted that purchase. It is the 'modern' edition of 'The Radiotron Designer's Handbook' which is a similar book from the vacuum tube era. Lots of substancial content. The Art of Electronics can be your ONLY electronics book and stand well in that role. > >It was written, incidentally, to BE the only needed electronics book, for technically minded people, scientists, etc. For the kind of scientist who rolls up his/her sleeves and builds his/her own test equipment for the lab. When It comes to books it's about thin only thing I spend too much on. My library includes books like the Radio Amatuers Handbook(arrl press) from for about every five years or when they made format changes about 1955 to current, OSDI Minix second edition hard cover, K&R the little white book and a Bell Tel "A" size copy from their think tank with margin notes, Of course the Grey, orange and Blue walls and a couple of feet of the DEC handbooks. Then I get into things like parts databooks going back to when dirt was being spec'd. Information and the books that contain them are the single most precious part of what I have because it spans all aspects of electronics. Now the 'The Radiotron Designer's Handbook' fits in that pile as just one more opinion along with my old college texts. Allison

18 years, 5 months

Old MS-DOS & WIN Software

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Old MS-DOS & WIN Software > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:08:32 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 12/2/2005 at 2:42 PM woodelf wrote: > >>Well it is not standard with the windows I have. > >Was it ever standard with Windows or DOS? If memory serves, it was always >an add-on package. IIRC, MASM 1.0 was abouit $100, which didn't make it >much of a bargain. > >LIB and LINK were packaged with DOS, but not MASM. ASM was standard with >CP/M, but it was kind of brain-dead (no macro facility, linking or >relocation). Most folks who wanted to program assembler seriously on 8 bit >stuff picked up either M80/L80 or RMAC. > >Didn't the Polymorphic or Processor Tech systems box ship with a resident >editor (BASC-style with line numbers) and a simple assembler? I seem to >remember hacking the I/O in it to work with my MITS box. Even added a few >of my own commands. > >Cheers, >Chuck > PTC did ALS-8 and you remember it. They werent the only one but it was notable. Allison

18 years, 5 months

More parts I need to replace on the VT100

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >> Hi >> I looked at the schematic and the parts you'd indicated. >> It looks like one of them was one off and was R55 and not >> D11. From the looks, it might be that you have other failures >> in the supply. You've indicated R11, R21 and R55. These >> are all part of the circuit that drives the primary switcher >> transistor through T3. > >Having looked at the printset, the first thing that struck me is that >these are all high power resistors (2 or 3 watt rating). They would >naturally run hot, therefore, and may look discoloured without there >being anything wrong with them. > >Before we dive into this PSU, I would be interested to know if the thing >produces any output voltage, and if those 3 resistors test bad on an >ohmmeter. > >-tony Hi I agree. But as noted, this should be done without connecting the rest of the terminal. My only question is what toasted R21. From the schematic, it should on be supplying current to only R55. If we assume that R55 is running at 100%, ( which it shouldn't ) R55 will have 43 ma flowing in it. This current is only a wattage of 150 milliwatts in R21. This is well below it's rated value of 3.75 watts. I find it unlikely that anything less than a short connecting the mains to the winding of T3 pins 6 & 5 could bring R21 to a current level that would burn it as well as R55. The Diode D11 being short might only wipe out R55. C6 shorted might take both out and increase the power on R11 enough to do in R11 as well. He might check to make sure that C6 isn't shorted. What do you think? How else can I get R21 hot enough? Dwight

18 years, 5 months

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test-drb December 2005