test-drb December 2005

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

235 participants
580 discussions

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Hello! I was wondering if someone here could burn me copies of the latest (KDF11-BP?) roms for the M8189. They include the ability to boot from MSCP and TK50, and I could really use this ability on my 11/23+ Currently my system has the original roms on 2716s (the part on the chips is NM2716Q), and it's a real pain entering in the boot strap every time. Can anyone help me out? Thanks Julian

18 years, 9 months

Acorn IEEE488 interface

by eelco＠huininga.nl

> Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:35:51 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Acorn IEEE488 interface > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1ElWzC-000IyBC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > >>I've also got the schematic for the Acorn System IEEE488 card somewhere - it >>wouldn't surprise me if the BBC unit is based heavily on this (I don't think I > > > It might be, it might not. The 'Acorn' IEEE-488 interface for the Beeb > doesn't seem to be an Acorn design. > > The article to find is in 'Electronics and Wireless World' February 1984, > pages 24-26 ('IEEE488 interface for the BBC Microcomputer'). It imples > the interface was actually designed by a company called 'Intellegent > Interfaces'. Indeed it is. I ran the IEEEFS ROMs which are available at the 'The BBC lives' site through a disassembler and both ROMs have a copyright message saying '(C) Intelligent Interfaces Ltd and Acorn Ltd'. Could you scan the article? I'd be very interested in it! > Anyway, there is a schematic. It's based round a 9914 chip along with the > 75160 and 75162 buffers. There's a 5MHz clock circuit, an address > decoder, a data bus buffer, and the normal circuit to de-glitch the page > select line on the 1MHz bus. That's all. Nothing remotely odd. > > Link S1 selects system controller mode, link S2 selects active pull-ups > on the IEEE488 data lines. I've just finished reverse-engineering the board and it's indeed a very straight-forward design. [snip] > I do. I think I might also have the IEEEFS ROM that goes with it, but I > can't promise that. I wonder what version you've got. The 0.2 ROM seems like a beta version, with lots of 'unused code' in between the different subroutines, and the 0.5 ROM hasn't got any filesystem support, just support for the OSWORD calls. [snip] > Hmm, I see what you mean. The manual looks very comprehensive with lots of > examples - but I can't see where it justifies why the addressing is done in > this way. I think it was done so the IEEE interface could be accessed as an ordinary file system (file handles &F0-&FF were reserved for IEEEFS IIRC). Cheers, Eelco

18 years, 9 months

Legacy apps in Windows/OS X was Re: Old MS-DOS & Win Software

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Legacy apps in Windows/OS X was Re: Old MS-DOS & Win Software > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:59:46 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 12/8/2005 at 9:49 PM Allison wrote: > >>> >>>Subject: Re: Legacy apps in Windows/OS X was Re: Old MS-DOS & Win >Software >>> From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> >>> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:30:35 -0700 >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >><cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>> >>> >>>What I do find odd that the 8086 came out first then a few years later >>>the 8088. >>>It still think the 8086/8086 could have had two instruction sets -- >>>8080 emulation and >>>a better 16 bit design. >> >>Not that I know of. I remember being able to get 8088s before the 86s >>and that was back in 78 or early 79. > >I think you're thinking of the NEC V20/ uPD70108 and the V30/uPD70116 CPUs. > Plug-compatible with the 8088 and 8086, but with a couple of instructions >added to switch modes into 8080 emulation. Overall, emulation was pretty >good, but should have been Z80 instead of 8080 and there were a couple of >small bugs in the emulation that weren't fixed. The V series were 1982 introduction. I was with NEC on the launch. By then >Most vendors used the V20/V30, however, because they were low-power CMOS. >They also implemented some of the 80186 entensions, like ENTER and LEAVE >and PUSHA/POPA and multi-bit immediate count shifts like SHR AX,5. If >you've got an old 8088/8086 box and need to run some code compiled to use >the 186/286 extensions, the V20/V30 is a very neat drop-in solution. Not initially, The first generation of Vseries were NMOS. I have samples of both. The other differences were internal effective address calculation was handled differntly from 8088 which shaved a few cycles of the execution. For the same clock V series were between 5-10% faster. Also the V20/V30 had 8080 emulation. Allison

18 years, 9 months

3.25" diskettes

by cclist＠sydex.com

I was chatting with someone else who prides himself on computer arcana and I mentioned that I had some 3.25" diskettes and drives. He said "You must mean 3" diskettes." "No, I mean 3.25" soft-jacket Dysan microfloppies" says I. "Never heard of such a thing" replies he. So I sent him a photo of a diskette and a drive (I've got two drives and a box of diskettes). How rare are these things? Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 9 months

PDP-11/73 booting!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 booting! > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:01:12 +0000 (GMT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >OK, but that would be unusual, and not exactly standard :-) Was that >a protoype? Nope. Early production with 11/23B orginally. If you have/had a BA23 DD and printset you find there are a lot of variations some are just mainline and some for specific customers. for example the LS-spec stuff for TELCO. >You could certainly use Q22-CD slots for 11/23-compatible >memory -- yes, I know the microPDP11/23 is just a KDF11-B with >different ROMs -- and I've never seen a BA23 that wasn't 3 x Q22-CD >plus 5 x Q22-Q22, which is what the tech manuals and maintenance >manuals I have describe. I don't even know of any other 4 x 8 >backplane that could fit. Actually there are three that fit and two with the right connector (molex style pins). the CD slots mean nothing if your using quad width memory but it's a big differnce if your using dual width. >Well if you started with a fully-serpentine Q22-Q22 backplane, the >microVAX memory would need it changed, because the cards talk to each >other using the CD-interconnect, which I'd forgotten (but not AFAIK for >CPU/memory transfers, which are over the top). The front panel, >though, is the same except for the badge, everywhere I've seen. The >console/SLU panel, the *back* panel, is different, of course. uVAX-II and 11/73B need/require over the top. 11/23B (and 11/73A) is strictly Q22. I happen to have the earlier non-pmi 11/73. And of course the uVAXII. Allison

18 years, 9 months

Acorn IEEE488 interface

by eelco＠huininga.nl

Does anyone have any documentation or software (other than IEEEFS 0.5 and NIEEE 0.2) for Acorn's IEEE488 interface for the beeb? It seems like almost nothing has survived... Cheers, Eelco

18 years, 9 months

CUBIX/6809 updates

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hello Dave. True, I used JavaScript to display the navigation tree at the left side. But the page describing the home-brew pdp8/e running on 6809 is here: www.pdp-11.nl/homebrew/pdp8/pdp8startpage.html It started with some hardware to connect a (homebrew) console to the serial port of a computer which runs SIMH. With a few changes in SIMH you can have bi-directional communication between SIMH and the console thus give (in this case) the PDP-11 SIMH a "real" console. It does all that a real console also does, hence the project name "RealConsole". Also, check out http://www.noicedebugger.com/index.html if you want to start on 6809. It gives you an "emulator" on your PC, connected to the 6809 target system. The best part is that especially for the 6809, it's free! I asked John, told him what I was doing, and I got a license. You must put some code on the target simple, but it is fairly simple. As the "pdp8/e" is built on the 6809, it can of course run 6809 code. In the SIMH version EPROM is a disassembler and a small BASIC interpreter, as there was room left in the EPROM. The IDE interface (with adapter to put in a CompactFlash Card) is connected to the I/O board, so it is not fast, but gives mass storage. The IDE routines are of course written in 6809 assembler and not pdp8/e code :-) So, the low-level access routines are there as a layer for an OS, etc. Implementing a DOS (FAT-12) would make it possible to connect the CF Card to a PC and get file transfer that way. Pulling out the CF Card, sticking it in the PC etc. was not my idea, I liked a floppy disk better for this job, so I ordered 2793's from bgmicro. Using the pdp8/e design fron panel for the 6809 is possible, but ... there are only 15 Address LEDs (12 plus 3 for EMA), and the other row is 12 LEDs, so the upper 4 would not be used. The rotary knob could be used to display A or B (or DP or CC) but to display X, Y, U, SP, PC you need 16 LEDs. There are just 12 switches, and you could use the SW switch as the 13th, but still, to enter a 16-bit address would be cumbersome. So, the pdp8/e panel is not the best choice, but the implementation -hardware wise- is always possible. Software is what makes it 'tick' :-) and I am sure that's "piece of cake" for you, Dave. Recenty I won an HP2117 console panel and a full 11/70 panel on eBay, and I want to connect those two panels with a Core and I/O Board to SIMH too. Then there is the resurrection of all my PDP-11 (real) machines now that I have finally power in the little museum. It's clear, I have way to many project going ... When I pick up the 6809 stuff, I will certainly take a good look at your code, and mention you on my website. thanks for sharing great stuff! - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield > Sent: zondag 11 december 2005 21:27 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: CUBIX/6809 updates > > > Great Dave. > > I will soon be picking up the intended floppy disk > interface for my 6809 board (Blinkenlight project). > > I must definately have a better look at your pages! Your site was > > already known to me :-) Perhaps I should not put so much > work in my 6809 code, but grab yours. But then I'll ask first! > > Hi Henk, > > I've heard about your project, but don't know much about it > (Your pages requirement to run code on my machine put me off > - even if my browser was modern enough to understand it - > which it isn't). > > I was under the impression that in your project the 6809 > performing emulation and front panel control --- Can you > boot/run "native" 6809 code in your design? It would be quite > neat to see the system running with a front panel. (One of > things I always "wanted to do" was build up a front-panel > machine around the 09 - just never did). > > CUBIX no longer has commercial value, and I've made it > available for free with no restrictions. > I'd appreciate it if you let me know if you use it (or parts > of it) in any other published projects, and if so, due credit > and possibly a link back to my site would be nice... > > Regards, > Dave > > -- > dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield > dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: > www.dunfield.com > com Collector of vintage computing equipment: > http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

18 years, 9 months

PDP-11/73 booting!

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Dec 12 2005, 16:20, Allison wrote: > > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > >All the ones I've ever seen in the field are the same regardless of > >whther for microPDP-11 or microVAX. I can't see why the microVAX one > >would be different; the microPDP has the CD slots for PMI but the > >microVAX doesn't care -- it uses over-the-top connections for the > >memory. > > > >The BA23 backplane for a microPDP-11 is an H9278-A and does indeed have > >three slots Q22-CD followed by five serpentine Q22-Q22. That's the > >same as my microVAX. And that agrees with the Tech Manuals I have. > > Ah, but it doesnt agree with mine. You can use the H9278 for Qbus -11 > but if you want to maximize the slots there was a differnt early option > BA23 that had no CD slots(all were AB serpentine) as none of the > processors before the PMI equipped 11/73 used PMI. Early microPDP-11s > wer really 11/23Bs. As a result there really were two similar but > not exactly the same flavors. OK, but that would be unusual, and not exactly standard :-) Was that a protoype? You could certainly use Q22-CD slots for 11/23-compatible memory -- yes, I know the microPDP11/23 is just a KDF11-B with different ROMs -- and I've never seen a BA23 that wasn't 3 x Q22-CD plus 5 x Q22-Q22, which is what the tech manuals and maintenance manuals I have describe. I don't even know of any other 4 x 8 backplane that could fit. > I know the gory details as my BA23 uVAX > was hacked from the uPDP-11 and I needed a differnt backplane > (memory compatability) and the front pannel insert for the drive > control was different. Well if you started with a fully-serpentine Q22-Q22 backplane, the microVAX memory would need it changed, because the cards talk to each other using the CD-interconnect, which I'd forgotten (but not AFAIK for CPU/memory transfers, which are over the top). The front panel, though, is the same except for the badge, everywhere I've seen. The console/SLU panel, the *back* panel, is different, of course. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

18 years, 9 months

PDP-11/73 booting!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 booting! > From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> > Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:41:06 +0000 (GMT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Dec 12 2005, 15:03, Allison wrote: > >> The BA23 came with a microPDP-11 backplane or one for the uVAX-II. >> While the differences are small when used with care they are >differnt. >> For the PDP-11 use the MicroPDP11 backplane is desired as the uVAX >> one has three slots that are CD wired for PMI bussed memory. >> the DISK interface and distribution board in the back of the drive >> cavity however are the same. > >All the ones I've ever seen in the field are the same regardless of >whther for microPDP-11 or microVAX. I can't see why the microVAX one >would be different; the microPDP has the CD slots for PMI but the >microVAX doesn't care -- it uses over-the-top connections for the >memory. > >The BA23 backplane for a microPDP-11 is an H9278-A and does indeed have >three slots Q22-CD followed by five serpentine Q22-Q22. That's the >same as my microVAX. And that agrees with the Tech Manuals I have. Ah, but it doesnt agree with mine. You can use the H9278 for Qbus -11 but if you want to maximize the slots there was a differnt early option BA23 that had no CD slots(all were AB serpentine) as none of the processors before the PMI equipped 11/73 used PMI. Early microPDP-11s wer really 11/23Bs. As a result there really were two similar but not exactly the same flavors. I know the gory details as my BA23 uVAX was hacked from the uPDP-11 and I needed a differnt backplane (memory compatability) and the front pannel insert for the drive control was different. At the time I was a Digit so getting the pieces from the systems lab was easy. Allison

18 years, 9 months

PDP-11/73 booting!

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Dec 12 2005, 15:03, Allison wrote: > The BA23 came with a microPDP-11 backplane or one for the uVAX-II. > While the differences are small when used with care they are differnt. > For the PDP-11 use the MicroPDP11 backplane is desired as the uVAX > one has three slots that are CD wired for PMI bussed memory. > the DISK interface and distribution board in the back of the drive > cavity however are the same. All the ones I've ever seen in the field are the same regardless of whther for microPDP-11 or microVAX. I can't see why the microVAX one would be different; the microPDP has the CD slots for PMI but the microVAX doesn't care -- it uses over-the-top connections for the memory. The BA23 backplane for a microPDP-11 is an H9278-A and does indeed have three slots Q22-CD followed by five serpentine Q22-Q22. That's the same as my microVAX. And that agrees with the Tech Manuals I have. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

18 years, 9 months

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test-drb December 2005