test-drb October 2005

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

264 participants
655 discussions

by dwight＠ca2h0430.amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >The 279X is a more integrated 1793 so thats a good choice too. Hi From scratch, I'd pefer the 2793. There is another option, get a FDC card from an old XT level PC. I did this for may NC4000 machine. It is not anything like a x86 machine. Of course, I could only do 360K disk without modifications to the clock speeds. I don't recall which chip it used but it seem like I remember it being one of the 179X parts. I did all the interface as direct CPU controlled without DMA but then, the NC4000 is one fast processor. Dwight

19 years, 1 month

Does anyone have a Radio Shack Electronics Learning Lab?

by John.Miramonti＠attglobal.net

Hi, I was your email regarding the Radio Shack Electronic LearningLab. I picked one up for my daughter, but it came without the manuals. I'm trying to get a copy. You mentioned "...The PDF file on the RS web site doesn't list things in enough detail.". I've been trying to download the PDF manual, but the upgraded web site apparently doesn't have it. Could you email me a copy? Or could I arrange to get a copy of your manuals? I could trade you a detailed list of components, with part numbers, catalog numbers, etc. Thanks, John Miramonti John.Miramonti at attglobal.net

19 years, 1 month

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST

by recycler＠swbell.net

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

19 years, 1 month

http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-TC-1206-Video-Monitor-5-25_W0QQitemZ7555

by jpero＠sympatico.ca

RCA TC 1206 Video Monitor 5.25" still $ 10 bid. Sorry I had didn't had a chance to post this in advance! Cheers, Wizard

19 years, 1 month

Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:35 +0100 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >OK, I'm wanting to build a board with an 8 bit CPU (probably Z80, >possibly 6502) and a floppy controller IC on board with the intention of >hanging it off my PC (via serial or parallel, undecided yet) and >allowing me to read and write *most* formats from various 1980's 8 bit >micros... > >Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. ick poo.. The 8271 was not widely used especially on 8bitters. If your serious then 1793 that was common as house flies and does most all soft formats. Actually with the exception of the GCR and hardsector formats that one chip is a good start. GCR (apple) is all software and a trivial amount of hardware (no special chip). Other hard formats have the problem of being unique to themselves (NS* hard is not like Heath hard) though it's possible to create copies of each of those as well. >I've never built any kind of computer from scratch, so it'll be a useful >experience. I figure on putting just enough code in ROM to support >downloading of actual firmware to the device over whatever the link is >to the PC, as that should save a lot of headache! > >Hopefully RAM requirements will be low enough that I can go the SRAM >route and avoid messing around with DRAM refresh (although IIRC the Z80 >has much of the necessary stuff built in...) Seriously 32kbyte static ram chips are easy to get (JDR and other have them) and EEprom (small is 2k and 8k are easy to find). Another way to do this is a small S100 bus with 16k of ram, a rom card Z80 cpu card and a serial board with one each of: NS* MDSA-4(a common hard sector that one does SD and DD) Tarbel 1771 based card (SD and really off 1771 specific formats) CCS 1793 based soft sector card. (most all softsector formats) Compupro 765 based card (why not!) In 7 commonly found S100 cards you cover 90+% of all floppies. The rest is software. If you stick to static parts and 6502 or Z80 the whole thing should be simple. Parallel port (bidirectional) will be faster but serial is easier though slower. Allison

19 years, 1 month

FPGA VAX update

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Ken Seefried <ken at seefried.com> wrote: > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> > > I think I have the documentation for the microcode for > > the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode > > files... > > Do you have the microcode files for the 11/730? Might still have the TU58 tapes around, yes. No TU58 drive to read them, though. > The Am2901 VHDL (and other formats) is freely availible and well > understood and fits several to an FPGA (even small ones covered by free > tools). The rest of the logic on an 11/730 CPU isn't that terrible > complicated. Given access to the microcode, I'd imagine it would be a > reasonable project to whip up an ersatz 11/730, validate that it works > correctly, then proceed to optimize and otherwise improve the design > (add in pipelining, test, add in FPU, test, add in cache, test, migrate > to faster FPGA family, test). Iterative, rather than shooting the moon > first run. Maybe. I think that there is probably a lot more logic outside the 2901 than inside... We're still talking several boards of logic here... I doubt all of that is microcode memory, 2901s and 74xx series stuff. :-) > You could even short-cut some of the FPGA work. I don't recall what > the microsequencer looks like on the 11/730, but if it's the usual > Am29{09,10,11}, there is at least one shop that still (as of at least > last year) makes an 8 x Am2901 + sequencer single chip ASIC that runs at > something like 20MHz. Or you can find NOS for the IDT 49c402 that is 4 > x Am2901s. > > This way of thinking won't result in the fastest VAX possible, but I > venture it has a better chance of resulting in an actual working VAX. It might be a possiblity. Not that I'll do it. But if someone really wanted this to happen, it's one possibility. Might be easier to talk with someone who still have an 11/730 running, to read his tapes though. > > Anyone want to take a crack at this? :-) > > Not me...:-) :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

19 years, 1 month

Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:27:23 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/25/2005 at 2:09 PM Allison wrote: > >>The 6116 is a great part and 4 of them are enough for a track level buffer >>and another 2 would provide adaquate code space. > >Dig into a junker external modem--the later V.32 ones have some very nice >SRAM chips in 64kx8 and 32Kx8 configurations. One chip and you're done >with RAM needs. > >Cheers, >Chuck Or a 386 or 486 mainboard. I have all my tiny(dip but .3 wide) cmos 8kx8, 32kx8 and larger that are real nice for this kind of stuff. Usually there will be a 27256 or 27C256 on those for 32k of easily programmed Eprom. Allison

19 years, 1 month

Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hi Jules, I have a design that worked - 20 years ago, with a 1793. It has a PLL-based data separator, using a 72LS629 and 2 4-bit counters, IIRC. I need to look it up. It was interfaced to 6809 bus signals, so changing it for 6502 is straight forward. I recently bought a few 1793 chips from BGMICRO, and then decided to make my design a lot simpler by using a 2793 as that FDC has a data separator integrated. With the correct clock cyrstal selection you can use the hardware for 3", 3.5", 5.25" _and_ 8" drives (under software control)! I am working on a 2793 which is piggy-back connected to the "Blinkenlight" Core Board which is based on the 6809E and has more than enough RAM and EPROM on board. But that's just a metter of how you write the software How to read the floppy. For instance, sector-wise or track-wise ! I started a webpage on this new project, see www.pdp-11.nl/ in the "my projects" folder. Vince still has Core Board kits (all parts included for $70), so the job is limited to the FDC part. (and the software ...) But it is a 6809E instead of the 6502, but that's a plus !!! Handling double density will become tricky with the 6502, and even with the 6809, because timing (read/write when DRQ is asserted) must be done by interrupt (FIRQ) or use the SYNC instruction. I am waiting on the arrival of my 2nd BGMICRO order that has the 2793 ... gd luck, - Henk, PA8PDP ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Jules Richardson Verzonden: di 25-10-2005 20:14 Aan: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... Chuck Guzis wrote: >>Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >>poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >>critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. > > > The 8271 is a pile of worms. Don't even bother with it. :-) > In a DIP package, if you want to restrict yourself to 5.25/3.5" MFM and FM > (but not HD) formats, the WD 1770/1772 is a nice compact (28 pin) little I've certainly got 1770 chips lying around unused in the parts box... I think you've just put that at the top of the list :) > Why a floppy to support your device, though? There are many high-speed > interfaces available to choose from nowadays. Why not feed your device via > USB? Rationale: I'm interested in doing this in order to archive old floppies to modern media, and out of the 5 or so PCs I can lay my hands on at home, none are happy with FM data :-( Catweasel's ruled out on grounds of cost, lack of schematics, and the fact that it's an internal board anyway. I need an external box of tricks so that I can easily use it to do archival work both at home and at the museum (and potentially other locations too). I know the museum PCs have serial and parallel ports, but not all of them will have USB; plus I'm hoping to spend zero cash on this and just use parts lying around at home - I'll have various serial & parallel I/O chips but certainly no USB stuff! As an additional thought whilst writing this (admittedly not thought through yet!) serial might be nicer than parallel so that at some future date I can dump all of the necessary firmware onto the disk interface box's ROM and in theory just talk to it using a comms package from the PC host. Lots more work in terms of understanding the various download protocols to do it that way, and it means that the disk interface box needs to understand the resultant disk image format on the PC which I'm not sure I like... but it does mean that all the host PC needs is a serial port and some comms software (which is covered by pretty much any modern-ish PC OS on the planet) rather than any special application to drive the box. If serial's the standard interface though it'd be zero hardware changes to support this in the future - it just means being stuck with a slower serial protocol for disk image transfer, when parallel would be faster. And yeah, I think we've been over this on this list before... :-) cheers Jules This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

19 years, 1 month

ID: Memorex 3266?

by cheri-post＠web.de

> > picture: http://toresbe.at.ifi.uio.no/3266.jpeg > > This is a Fujitsu drive (not a 2444 but similar product line as > the 2444, maybe a 2436?) that Memorex relabeled. > > Most of the ones I dealt with were Pertec Formatted > (two 50-pin cables) and did 1600 and 6250. Some had > cache cards, some had outboard third-party Pertec Formatted > to SCSI converters. > > 2444's were especially popular with Sun VME systems. > > Tim. > These ARE relabeled Fujitsu drives, I'd suppose 2436 as well, Tim. I recognize the drives and their frontpanel as they were the same on the Unisys System 80, I tried to safe last year. The only difference: They were red, not blue. concerning the right number and the interface types: Can be looked up in 3 days. If the documents and schematics are needed, I wanted to scan them anyway. But it may take several months, as I'm in France and not in Germany currently. Regards, Pierre ______________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193

19 years, 1 month

FPGA VAX update

by ken＠seefried.com

From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> > I think I have the documentation for the microcode for > the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode > files... Do you have the microcode files for the 11/730? The Am2901 VHDL (and other formats) is freely availible and well understood and fits several to an FPGA (even small ones covered by free tools). The rest of the logic on an 11/730 CPU isn't that terrible complicated. Given access to the microcode, I'd imagine it would be a reasonable project to whip up an ersatz 11/730, validate that it works correctly, then proceed to optimize and otherwise improve the design (add in pipelining, test, add in FPU, test, add in cache, test, migrate to faster FPGA family, test). Iterative, rather than shooting the moon first run. You could even short-cut some of the FPGA work. I don't recall what the microsequencer looks like on the 11/730, but if it's the usual Am29{09,10,11}, there is at least one shop that still (as of at least last year) makes an 8 x Am2901 + sequencer single chip ASIC that runs at something like 20MHz. Or you can find NOS for the IDT 49c402 that is 4 x Am2901s. This way of thinking won't result in the fastest VAX possible, but I venture it has a better chance of resulting in an actual working VAX. > Anyone want to take a crack at this? :-) Not me...:-) Ken

19 years, 1 month

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test-drb October 2005