October 2005 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: OT for a sec: US wiring sources of info > From: Alistair MacDonald <a.macdonald+classiccmp at slitesys.demon.co.uk> > Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:50:53 +0100 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> If I remember what my friend from Aylesbury told me aobut UK wiring, it >> isn't uncommon for a 50 amp 220 volt pair to be run to all outlets; > >Your friend would appear to live in a different UK to me. It is however >common practice for the outlets to be in a ring with a 30A fuse in the >fusebox. Well UK and USA differ on wiring and voltage. We often have large numbers of outlets (parallel connection) per fuse/breaker. For example this house has 9 rooms and three breakers control the bulk of the outlets (1957 construction). And added outlets since then are on new breakers. This is typical of homes more than 15-20 yers old and varies a lot. the other is MY understanding is UK is 230V where we use 115/120. Further the mains are Line/Line in UK and here they are line/neutral. The differnce is under nominal conditions one side of the outlet is at earth potential (or very close). We add the third prong as earth or safety ground. >> the fuse being in the plug of the appliance. He also mentioned that, >> although in theory, each appliance is to be fused according to its >> current use, the common practice is to install a 13 amp fuse in >> everything as a replacement. > >Most people don't understand the difference and it is more annoying to >get the correct fuse. It isn't helped by the manufacturers supplying >items with the wrong fuse. Those of us who perform Portable Appliance >Tests on things get very annoyed at having to replace the fuses on the >first test. Anyone want any 13A fuses? 8-) While a good practice the design differnce here is internal fuse (or on equipment) for equipment fault and circuit (breaker box) fuse to protects building wiring from fault or overload. fire people often report that electrical fires resulting from circuit overload (impropper fusing or use of under weight extension cords.) more often than an appliance causing fires. From what you say it's done the same there only location of the equipment fuse is at the connector. Each has it's merits. I may add here we also have fixed appliences that use 230V line/line for power too allow lower line currents that come with higher voltages. Devices like that are electric ranges, Ovens, clothes dryers and generally any non portable appliance that would draw 20A or more at 115/120V. US household generally have power delivers from the pole as 230V Line/Line aand 115/120V line/neutral. A code specifies that neutral will be bonded to earth (via pipe or ground rod) at only one point. From that point protective ground and neutral will be distributed to all loads either as star or bus. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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2002 issues of IEEE Annals?

by RMeenaks＠olf.com

I have the digital subscription for these via my school. I'll see if I can get them for you... Cheers, Ram

20 years, 8 months

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2002 issues of IEEE Annals?

by news＠computercollector.com

Hi, does anyone have the April/June and July/September issues (Vol. 24, nos. 2 and 3) of the IEEE Annals of the History of Computing? I need these for a research project. Thanks! - Evan ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 8 months

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KIM-1 repair advice wanted

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Oct 6 2005, 22:03, Tony Duell wrote: > > fear it's more likely a 6530, and I assume they're unobtanium. Has > > anyone ever come up with a kludge to effectively use a 6532 > My Commodore 8250LP disk drive has an official kludgeboard in what seems > to be a socket designed for an 6530. It contains a 6532, a ROM, and a > simple TTL chip ('04 or something like that). Sounds like a start. I obviously can't get this fixed for, er, today, but perhaps I can look at it over the weekend. If not, it will just have to be a static display on Wednesday. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

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EECO Paper Tape Reader Pinout?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone know what the pinout for this PTR is? This is a EECO model TRS9200BBDED. It appears to be ann 8 bit reader and has a DB-25M connector and mounts in a 19" rack. Joe

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: 8" floppy system needed to recover old game data > From: "Barry Watzman" <Watzman at neo.rr.com> > Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:46:29 -0400 > To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> > > >Let's simplify this ... A LOT. > >The most common disk format (BY FAR) for CP/M was 8-inch, single sided, >single density. Already stated but it's very important to repeat it. >If they are in that format, then virtually any CP/M system with 8" floppy >disk drives can read the disks (assuming that they are still readable). It >is very unlikely to matter what disk controller was used to write the disks, >it is very unlikely to matter what system originally created the disks. The >8" SSSD format is "gold standard interchangeable" among virtually all CP/M >systems with 8" floppy drives. And it was, BY FAR, the most common CP/M >disk format. Most 8" softsector systems that did "other formats" also maintained the 8" SSSD standard. >Finding a working CP/M system with 8" drives should not be difficult. I >have 3 of them here (I'm in Ohio, USA). There are still many thousands of >running CP/M systems around. A slightly greater problem is getting the >files moved from the 8" CP/M floppy disks to another [more useful] form of >media. What you really want is a system with both 8" and 5.25" floppy >drives, and a PC with 5.25" floppy drives. Such a system would allow you to >move the files from 8" CP/M to DOS/Windows, which is probably the objective. The latter, moving the files is trivial. Procomm on a PC and any of the modem programs on the CP/M system is easily done. Some systems like mine runs 3.5" floppies as well plus a program called dos to write 720k format DOS floppies which is very handy! Other do it by writing 8" to 360k 5.25 and relying on a pc with same disk and using one of many programs to read the disk at the file level. >My experience in reading 8" diskettes written in the 1970's has been >excellent. I have hundreds, probably a couple of thousand such disks, and I >have only had a single digit number of diskettes that I have been unable to >read out of all of those. Others who have actually had experience with >large numbers of 8" disks also report very high success rates with disks >that have been stored in climate-controlled environments. Now if the disks >were outside in a garage for 20 years, that would be another matter of >course, but for well stored disks, readability is not usually an issue. My experience is mixed, I generally assume readable but occasional bad media show up. I've had more likely due to poor storage they were subjected to beforehand. A side note is that most of the bad media was mid 80s 3M manufacture [remember the "blackwatch" audio tape that binder crapped after a few years] or poorly stored. My PDP-11 (RX01) disks are typically 35 years old for some masters. Yet some of the early 80s cheap (third party) 8" media has failed. Maxell Dysan and BASF were always the best and I still have an unopened box or two. >It is possible that the disks are not SSSD (single sided, single density), >and if that is the case, then the problem becomes far more complex. Once >you get away from 8" SSSD, there is no standard disk format, rather there >are hundreds of different formats specific to each implementation of CP/M. >This could [greatly] complicate recovery, however, under no circumstances >would this make recovery impossible. CP/M is highly adaptable, and with >some effort (programming) it would be possible, first, to determine the >format, and, second, to adapt any CP/M system to be able to read any disks >for which it had the correct type of drive. The only other format that shows up is Intel MDS using the double density M2FM(oddball), I must have a dozen of these that I can't read. I point this out as some games developers used MDS as their development platform and debug platoform using the MDS ICE. Usually thier budget was smaller and they used generic systems. >In general, unless the format is ***VERY*** non-standard, it doesn't matter >what the controller was that wrote the disks. Most systems used Western >Digital 17xx controllers, some did use NEC 765 controllers (which existed >for a couple of years before the PC came out), and a few used discreet logic >controllers. But for the most part (and in particular between the WD and >NEC based controllers), disks were interchangeable with regard to being >READ. FYI: the NEC 765 was sampled in early 1980, production 1980 4thQ, IBM PC was Q3 1981. It wasnt a few years. The 1771/1793 was the defacto CP/M FDC through 1981 and dominent after that with only new designs after '81 picking up on the 765 (compupro and some of the system on a single board vendors). In any case for 8" SSSD it was not an issue as both NEC and WD controllers were fully capable and compatable. >A few people mentioned hard-sectored media. While hard sector 8" disk >systems did exist (I have two of them here), it was very, very rare for >hard-sectored media or systems to run CP/M. Invariably, systems using >hard-sector 8" media ran proprietary operating systems. You can assume that >any 8" CP/M system was soft-sectored and be correct at about the 99% level. Hard sector 8" system were rare, unusual and many of the host systems were difficult to program (new bios) or unsuitable for CP/M operation. Another watch for thing. I have media (Maxel 2Dxd, two sided) that was usually used for two sided and the sector hole is different and some older drives do not see index as a result. This occured to me using an old SA800 and the media was actually used and formatted as as single sided SD on a Compupro Disk1 using QUME drives. It was a simple matter of using an 8" drive that could sense index in either location (sa860). I mention this as users and integrators of CP/M systems often did an occasional strange thing and if a disk doesnt read it can be an innocent error thats easily fixed. As been repeated else where and by myself the 5.25" world was not as orderly. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Let's simplify this ... A LOT. The most common disk format (BY FAR) for CP/M was 8-inch, single sided, single density. If they are in that format, then virtually any CP/M system with 8" floppy disk drives can read the disks (assuming that they are still readable). It is very unlikely to matter what disk controller was used to write the disks, it is very unlikely to matter what system originally created the disks. The 8" SSSD format is "gold standard interchangeable" among virtually all CP/M systems with 8" floppy drives. And it was, BY FAR, the most common CP/M disk format. Finding a working CP/M system with 8" drives should not be difficult. I have 3 of them here (I'm in Ohio, USA). There are still many thousands of running CP/M systems around. A slightly greater problem is getting the files moved from the 8" CP/M floppy disks to another [more useful] form of media. What you really want is a system with both 8" and 5.25" floppy drives, and a PC with 5.25" floppy drives. Such a system would allow you to move the files from 8" CP/M to DOS/Windows, which is probably the objective. My experience in reading 8" diskettes written in the 1970's has been excellent. I have hundreds, probably a couple of thousand such disks, and I have only had a single-digit number of diskettes that I have been unable to read out of all of those. Others who have actually had experience with large numbers of 8" disks also report very high success rates with disks that have been stored in climate-controlled environments. Now if the disks were outside in a garage for 20 years, that would be another matter of course, but for well stored disks, readability is not usually an issue. It is possible that the disks are not SSSD (single sided, single density), and if that is the case, then the problem becomes far more complex. Once you get away from 8" SSSD, there is no standard disk format, rather there are hundreds of different formats specific to each implementation of CP/M. This could [greatly] complicate recovery, however, under no circumstances would this make recovery impossible. CP/M is highly adaptable, and with some effort (programming) it would be possible, first, to determine the format, and, second, to adapt any CP/M system to be able to read any disks for which it had the correct type of drive. In general, unless the format is ***VERY*** non-standard, it doesn't matter what the controller was that wrote the disks. Most systems used Western Digital 17xx controllers, some did use NEC 765 controllers (which existed for a couple of years before the PC came out), and a few used discreet logic controllers. But for the most part (and in particular between the WD and NEC based controllers), disks were interchangeable with regard to being READ. A few people mentioned hard-sectored media. While hard sector 8" disk systems did exist (I have two of them here), it was very, very rare for hard-sectored media or systems to run CP/M. Invariably, systems using hard-sector 8" media ran proprietary operating systems. You can assume that any 8" CP/M system was soft-sectored and be correct at about the 99% level.

20 years, 8 months

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OT for a sec: US wiring sources of info

by melamy＠earthlink.net

3 or so meter grounding rod driven into the earth and then attached with a single run of wire to the meter box and the service panel. Current standards usually require 12 gauge copper wire with three wires in it for 110v runs. White, black, and a ground wire (usually 14 gauge). For the 110v runs, each has the ground wire and white wire connected to the panel's ground. Black goes to the breaker and becomes the hot lead to circuits. The ground wire should be connected to any metal boxes and should be attached to the ground terminals on switches and outlets. hope that covers what you were asking. What is the earthing arrangement? Simon -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is the utility of the final product." Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh

20 years, 8 months

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PDP-11 Hard Drives

by madcrow.maxwell＠gmail.com

I've been looking for a list of the various hard drive units available for the PDP-11 and their capacites, but have not been able to find one online. Can anybody help me out here?

20 years, 8 months

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KIM-1 repair advice wanted

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Oct 6 2005, 18:25, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I've seen this done for pinball machines. [ ... ] > http://www.6502.org/oldmicro/buildkim/buildkim.htm Thaks -- I'd seen that link but it's good to know someone's seen another instance in real life :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

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KIM-1 repair advice wanted

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> fear it's more likely a 6530, and I assume they're unobtanium. Has >> anyone ever come up with a kludge to effectively use a 6532 (and are >> they any easier to find?) with an EPROM? Or anything else? > >My Commodore 8250LP disk drive has an official kludgeboard in what seems >to be a socket designed for an 6530. It contains a 6532, a ROM, and a >simple TTL chip ('04 or something like that). > >IIRC, though, the chip select levels of the 6530 were mask-programmable, >so this might not work in all cases. And I don't think I can get any >details of this to you by tomorrow anyway. > Hi I've seen this done for pinball machines. There are some potential issues other than just mapping the ROM. Some of the internal selects are also mask programmed ( usually different than the 6530 ). As I recall, one can even invert the data going to the port( a real pain to handle ). I think there is a document on the web someplace on making this patch. Ahh, here it is. Look at: http://www.6502.org/oldmicro/buildkim/buildkim.htm later Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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ASR-32 troubleshooting

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > >The problem turned out to be a tine in the reader that slipped out of its >linkage. I fixed that and now everything is working again. > >Phew! > >Thanks for all the suggestions and advice! Hi Sellam Sorry I didn't get back to you right away ( I do have a job ). There are a number of clutches along the main shaft. Each one is the shiny disks that you see along the shaft. I forget how many there are (4 or 5 as I recall ). There is a little paw that lifts up to allow each clutch to engage, doing any number of things like resetting keyboard or running some other function. When the paw is down there are two little tabs that stick out >from the clutch and rotate when the clutch is engaged. When the forward tab hits the paw, it should disengage the clutch. When the machine is running at speed, inertia causes the two tabs to push together, fully releasing the clutch. When running slow by hand, you need to squeeze the two together when the forward tab hit the paw. This fully disengages the clutch. I know this is a little late but in the future it should help. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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ASR-32 troubleshooting

by vcf＠siconic.com

I just found that if I hold down the third typebar from the rear the correct characters come out. Any ideas what's happening here? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 8 months

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ASR33 platten problem

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jim Beacon" <jim at g1jbg.co.uk> > > >> > in the process of repairing an ASR33 for someone else, I've found that >the >> > platten roller moulding has swollen, so that it no longer turns in the >end >> > plates. Has anyone else come across this problem, or know what may have >> > caused it? (I suspect exposure to a solvent at sometime in the past). >> > >> > Luckily, I have a spare platten assembly! >> >> Well, presumably all you really needed was the roller? >> >> Since the old one is useless in its current state, it might be worth >> putting the roller in a lathe and turning down the bearing areas. This >> would be a pretty easy job ofr anyone with a metalwork lathe, so even if >> you don't have access to one yourself, you might find a friend who would >> do it for you. The sort of people who make model steam engines almost >> always have a suitable lathe... >> >> -tony >> > >Tony, > >I had considered skimming the roller, and if it was my machine I would, >however, as the machine is going elsewhere, I'm opting for replacement (I >don't like my repairs coming back after a couple of months.........) > >Jim. Hi It is most likely the oil used. Some oils swell the rubber while others shrink it. Your not suppose to have so much oil that the platten gets soaked. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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Need ASR-32/33 in Brooklyn, NY area ASAP

by vcf＠siconic.com

I shipped an ASR-32 into NY for a movie shoot and all was going relatively well until I tried to run a punched tape through. Now wrong characters are being printed (i.e. C comes out as K, return and linefeed don't work but instead print characters). Something's stuck/slipped but I have niether the skill nor time to try to diagnose and repair (though I'm trying). If someone in the NY city area has an ASR-32/33 that they can bring down I'll be sure they get compensated for the time and effort. Please try calling me at 925/216-0569. If you don't get an answer, call 718/930-8092 and ask for me, and say it's regarding the teletype. TIA!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 8 months

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ASR-32 troubleshooting

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > > >I just found that if I hold down the third typebar from the rear the >correct characters come out. Any ideas what's happening here? > Hi It isn't clear if you have a reader or printer problem. Does it work fine from the keyboard in local? If so, it is most likely in the reader. If it is the reader, look for a spring that may be disconnected or a piece of crud inside. Try disconnecting the motor power and operating by hand. Remember that when going slow, you need to lockup the clutches by hand by squeezing the two tabs together or they will drag. With the motor power off, you can turn the fan and go slow. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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PDP-11 Hard Drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PDP-11 Hard Drives > From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:25:01 +0000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >At 09:17 AM 10/6/05 -0400, Allison wrote: >>> >>>Subject: PDP-11 Hard Drives >>> From: Madcrow Maxwell <madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com> >>> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:40:54 -0400 >>> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >>> >>>I've been looking for a list of the various hard drive units available >>>for the PDP-11 and their capacites, but have not been able to find one >>>online. Can anybody help me out here? >> >>Reason is your asking too broad a question. >> >>PDP-11 was a series of CPUs/systems that used at least 4 busses and >>an even greater array of storage facilities over the period from 1970 >>to current(yes current!). So to even start answering the question. >> >>What cpu or bus? Or what time period? Fixed or removable? > > And factory and/or 3rd party drives. If you want to include 3rd party it >would take a book to list them all! > > Joe I also forgot to ask what OS as tere wer device limits on some such as exists with RT-11 (32mb per logical device). And what generation of OS such as Unix V6 (no mscp). Allison

20 years, 8 months

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Need help on multibus HD controller

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi I've acquired hard disk controller card. I'm in need of some information on it as well as I seem to be missing at least one PROM. The board uses the WD1100 parts with a 8X300 control processor. It has an array of 9 sockets for program of the 8X300 ( only 3 are populated on my board ). It has 3 locations for MK4802 SRAM's and a 82S191 ( also missing ). It is manufactured by Codata Systems Corp and has a part number 92-1011-01. I was hoping that someone might have information on this or have one of these boards that I could get a copy of at least the 82S191. I suspect that the 3 PROMs I do have are sufficient to run the 8X300. I would guess the additional sockets are for expansion of control. Other 8X300 controllers I've seen use less code. I'd guess the 82S191 had formatting information on it since it is on the data side of the 8X300, along with the RAM. Any help would be great. Thanks Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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Interesting stuff on E-bay

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I just posted these: 'A Pocket Guide to the 2100 Computer' Hewlett Packard '72 Drytek S-100 I/O card Clamp On Ampmeter with 5 Scales (You have to see this one!) Sperry Univac Computer Quick Reference Card 1978 HP 35 calculator box, manual, charger Adobe Acrobat 5.0 New in Box DEC A8000 ADV11-C 16-channel 12-bit A-to-D Converter card Also some DEC cards and other interesting items. see <http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrigdonjQQhtZ-1> Joe

20 years, 8 months

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ASR33 platten problem

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

Hi All, in the process of repairing an ASR33 for someone else, I've found that the platten roller moulding has swollen, so that it no longer turns in the end plates. Has anyone else come across this problem, or know what may have caused it? (I suspect exposure to a solvent at sometime in the past). Luckily, I have a spare platten assembly! Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

20 years, 8 months

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The indefeatable 8" floppy Was : 8" floppy system neededtorecoverold game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: The indefeatable 8" floppy Was : 8" floppy system neededtorecoverold game data > From: "John Allain" <allain at panix.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:14:13 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> The other case was media that was stored next to a large (50hp) >> AC motor. The media was good but usedless until formatted. >> The previously held data was largely gone due to partial erasure. > >How close and for how long? >I mean, everything we deal with emits EM radiation. >It would be interesting to know the details. Close in this case was on top of and laying against and the motor itself was an much older partially open frame type used for a large screw compressor. The field was strong enough to make a screwdriver buzz if held against it. I suspect the heat given off (maybe 45-55C) didn't help either. The disks in question were stored above it untill a shelf collapse resulting in their close association in such a haphazard way. Though the heat in the room (110F) is not good for the media either. Very unusual case most likely. I didn't include those disks that went through the motor fan or got caught in the drive. My biggest problem has been media stored in basements and garages where temerature and moisture did their worst. Mold and mildew are also a problem but can be managed. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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The indefeatable 8" floppy Was : 8" floppy system needed to recoverold game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Hi, I have around here maybe 400-1000 8" disks. Most are not less than 15 years old and some easily approaching 25-30. I've seen a perfectly good head and pad get gummed when the binder failed on the media. The other case was media that was stored next to a large (50hp) AC motor. The media was good but usedless until formatted. The previously held data was largely gone due to partial erasure. >[worse if mishandled] By that I meant stored in enviromental conditions that may result in binder failure. You may have interpreted that as mechanical bend, fold and spindle. Binder failure is treatable if anticipated but be prepared for read once. I've had a number of my oldest 8" media die that way. Backups and copies prevented loss. Allison > >Subject: The indefeatable 8" floppy Was : 8" floppy system needed to recoverold game data > From: "Nico de Jong" <nico at FARUMDATA.DK> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:09:19 +0200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Fra: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >> >> Again most 8" media is real old and there were a few brands of media that >> aged poorly [worse if mishandled] with media shedding being a really big >> problem. >> >I'm not quite sure that I agree with you. I remember a case where a customer >called me, panic stricken, and said that his Mountain 8" loader (I still have >the power supply...) had eaten a disc with financial transactions. >When I arrived at the site, I saw that the 8" was now a 4" on one side. It was >totally mangled by the loaderpart shoving the disk into the drive. Head broken >of, etc. >New drive, but that was expected. Now we had to look at the mangled disk. There >were some dents and scratches, but we decided to try. >I sacrificed another 8" disc, in that I opened the sleve and discarded the >floppy. In with the "mangled" floppy. It read perfectly, although with a few >retries. >The epilogue was that my customer sent a civilized letter to his customer, >asking him not to put staples through the disc for the future. > >Nico >

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

Hi, I am hoping to help an ex-games developer access some very old game data and source code stored on 8" floppy disks from a CPM system, data that simply does not exist anywhere else and will otherwise be lost. (It is the kind of stuff destined for MAME :)). I personally can possibly get access to such a system, however we do not want to risk transporting the media any more than necessary, and I am far FAR removed from where the disks are located in San Francisco (I live in the UK). Does anybody near here (or willing to travel there!) have such a system and could help us out? As I said this is a one-of-a-kind opportunity which should unearth games that were previously thought not to exist (though most were not completed AFAIK). There is always the chance that they are already lost (corrupted media), but we just won't know until we try. I would be over the moon if somebody could help us out with this! If you can help, or know somebody else who can help, please contact me! Thanks, Kieron Wilkinson ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

4
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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi First thing is to try to determine format. Many 8 inch disk were labeled as being SSSD, DSDD, or similar. This will help as a starting point. Also, looking to see if it has a single index hole or multiple in the media needs to be determined. If it is soft sectored SSSD, 128 bytes per sector and FM format, I can read them relatively easily. I live in Santa Cruz, Ca. That is about 50 miles south of SF. If the disk have text files, figuring the file formating will not be a big issue. As you note, getting the sector images is the important part. Sorting the sectors is relatively minor. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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Anyone have a 3U (single slot) VME chassis hanging around?

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

I need a chassis that can take 3U (not 6U) VME-style cards. The cards are not VME, so I don't care if it does not have the backplane as I have my own. It needs to have a powersupply though.... Thanks, Ram

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

At 12:57 PM 10/6/05 +0100, you wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nico de Jong >> >> Sorry, Denmark.... > >Ah, oops. And there is me always using the UK acronym... :) > >> He could use DHL, they are very reliable. >> I dont think anyone is going to log a conversion system to > >I'm afraid I am not very familiar with CPM systems. Could you please >tell me why a conversion system is needed? It all depends on what system they were written on. There are hundreds if not thousands of different CPM formats. Some of them are litterally one of a kind and were only used on one type computer and can not be read on anything else. A good example is the M2FM format that Intel used on their MDS machines. Some also used hard sectored disks and there's no way that a modern disk controller can deal with that. OTOH if you're lucky, they used a computer that used the "standard" CPM format (actually it was an early IBM format). If your disks were written in that format then it should be easy to read them. Even a PC with an 8" drive adapted to it can read that format. If you have no idea what kind of machine wrote the disks then I'd suggest at least looking and see how many sector holes are in the disks. If only one then they're soft-sectored and there's a good chance they can be read. If they have more than one then they're hard sectored and are likely to be a problem since many of the machines that used that are long gone. That will at least give you an idea of what you're dealing with. Joe Didn't they use similar FDC >chips? I (perhaps naively) assumed it would be some sort of a >NEC765-derived one and we could get a simple track-by-track dump... > >> the US. It would be cheaper for him to take a plane to >> Denmark, and have a nice weekend in Copenhagen, while I >> hopefully do the job. > >While this is true, the problem we have is that although we have >convinced the ex-developer to let us help them preserve this data, it >will be very much harder to get them to go out of their way to get it >done. This is the reason I was trying to get somebody local to them to >help us do it, even though they do treasure it. > >It's a difficult situation for sure. > >I'll try again on the mailing of the media, but it will probably have to >be a last resort. > >> The only "local" one I can think of from the top of my head, >> is Sellam Ismail > >Ah great. Well if he does not reply to this thread, I will send them a >mail. Thanks! > >Kieron > >============================ >Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message. > > >

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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Big-assed Nerd belt buckle

by James＠jdfogg.com

> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8224062317 > Perfect for the Redneck nerd. Would that be a Rednerd? Nerdneck?

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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Yellowing plastic?

by starmaster＠gmail.com

Anyone know the best way to handle the restoration of plastic that has yellowed due to being in someones basement or something? Has that dingy brownish/yellowish tint to it. I thought I saw a posting about it earlier, but cannot locate it now... Thanks

20 years, 8 months

22
46
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CRT implosions

by technobug＠comcast.net

On or about Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:34:32 -0700 (PDT), Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, CRC wrote: > >> In the mid 50s they used to show on TV a tape of a ball on a string >> launched into the face of an unprotected CRT. The neck proceeded >> through the faceplate and embedded in a 1/2" piece of plywood. >> Definitely made one careful when playing with the old sets. >> > > Yes, but being TV, had they filled the tube with propane and > ignited it? The tape was made from high speed photography played back at normal speed. I remember the faceplate imploding followed by the neck being propelled through the faceplate. If propane had been used, the faceplate would have exploded and the neck gone in the opposite direction. CRC

20 years, 8 months

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Johnny Billquist's List of PDP-11 drives

by madcrow.maxwell＠gmail.com

Thanks for that huge list... That was exactly what I was looking for... As for the "what bus" question, it doesn't really matter to me as I can emulate either depending on what hardware I need to emulate and what software I want to play around with (simh is nice that way) I mainly needed to know what was available as I plan on creating several actual useful simh configurations and RL-series disks are so small as to be rather useless to me... It would be nice if simh would provide this sort of info in the "emulated hardware" list.

20 years, 8 months

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PDP-11 Hard Drives

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 Madcrow Maxwell <madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com> wrote: > I've been looking for a list of the various hard drive units available > for the PDP-11 and their capacites, but have not been able to find one > online. Can anybody help me out here? Phew, that's a long list. I can't give you all, but I can list some from my head atleast. And these are just older DEC drives. You are aware of the fact that PDP-11s can have SCSI disks, which means you can grab almost any current SCSI disk as well? Okay... Here we go: Type Capacity RS series RS03 512 Kbyte RS04 1 Mbyte RF series RF11 512 Kbyte RK series RK02 1.2 Mbyte RK03 2.5 Mbyte RK05 2.5 Mbyte RK06 14 Mbyte RK07 28 Mbyte RL series RL01 5 Mbyte RL02 10 Mbyte RM series RM02 63 Mbyte RM03 63 Mbyte RM05 256 Mbyte RM80 124 Mbyte RP series RP01 5 Mbyte RP02 20 Mbyte RP03 40 Mbyte RP04 83 Mbyte RP05 83 Mbyte RP06 176 Mbyte RP07 504 Mbyte RA series RA80 124 Mbyte RA81 456 Mbyte RA82 622 Mbyte RA90 1.2 Gbyte RA92 1.5 Gbyte RA60 205 Mbyte RA70 280 Mbyte RA71 684 Mbyte RA72 1 Gbyte RA73 2 Gbyte RC series RC25 25 Mbyte * 2 RD series RD31 20 Mbyte RD32 40 Mbyte RD33 71 Mbyte RD50 5 Mbyte RD51 10 Mbyte RD52 31 Mbyte RD53 71 Mbyte RD54 159 Mbyte RX series RX01 256 Kbyte RX02 512 Kbyte RX33 1.2 Mbyte RX50 400 Kbyte RZ series (SCSI disks) And I know that a few of these numbers don't match some pages turned up by Google, but this is what my memory is telling me... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 8 months

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PDP-11 Hard Drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: PDP-11 Hard Drives > From: Madcrow Maxwell <madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:40:54 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I've been looking for a list of the various hard drive units available >for the PDP-11 and their capacites, but have not been able to find one >online. Can anybody help me out here? Reason is your asking too broad a question. PDP-11 was a series of CPUs/systems that used at least 4 busses and an even greater array of storage facilities over the period from 1970 to current(yes current!). So to even start answering the question. What cpu or bus? Or what time period? Fixed or removable? Allison

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Punched the send by error.... continued. > >Subject: RE: 8" floppy system needed to recover old game data > From: Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:30:01 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >>Subject: RE: 8" floppy system needed to recover old game data >> From: "Kieron Wilkinson" <Kieron.Wilkinson at paretopartners.com> >> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:59:35 +0100 >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> >> >>My reasons for suggesting doing a track dump is so we can leave figuring >>out the filesystem later... Which from my experience of other systems >>means it is less likely we would get it wrong "on the day". It is bad >>enough getting this done once, twice would not be too fun either. ;) >> >>But of course, CP/M is not exactly part of my previous experiences. > >CP/M file system is fairly easy to understand. It was fairly standardized >depite media variations. A dump of any form would be reconstructable >if there are no lost sectors. > >For 8" systems they fell onto two major groups: > >Hard sector: Altair and a Zilog used those. However _most_ > hard sector 8" systems rarely carried CP/M. > >Soft sector: Most common and there was a standard interchange format > for CP/M. That was 8" single sided single density (8"SSSD). > Other formats that existed were CP/M on Intel (M2FM) and > Odd sector sizes or double density. Likely formats in > the 8" realm were fortunatly fairly few (likely one of 5). > The two most common after SSSD was SSDD (single side > Double density) and DSDD (double sided double density). > The latter two SSDD was often seen and had a fairly similar > layout compared to SSSD. The DSDD was far less common and > there were a few different ideas how data should be laid down. > FYI: the M2FM (intel MDS) used conventional 8" drives but the FDC was really a custom board designed by intel to do double density when there were no chips that did it. The format must and can only be read on intel. >The 5.25 worlds was chaotic as drive were developing and people needed to >push those minifloppies from the base of only 80k to a more useable 360 >or even 780k. Where the base 8"SSSD was 256k from day one. Even then many of the 5.25 based systems were not locked one format and could at least read a few others. Again if it was hard sector then all bets were off (Heath, Northstar, and a few others were hard sector). To read base 8"sssd disks there are a lot of people that have working systems (myself included) that have zero problem doing this. It's also possible to do it using a compaticard or even a hacked PC FDC with the right cable to a working drive. If the media was 8"SSSD then reading them to the file content level is best. IF the media is unknown and and different then it really helps to know what the origin system was as then the format is known. If all is unknown the reading the media at the sector level will likely get it done. That is a slower interative process that being determine sector size, read sectors sequentially saving them on other media, decode disk layout and reconstruct files. Again most 8" media is real old and there were a few brands of media that aged poorly [worse if mishandled] with media shedding being a really big problem. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: 8" floppy system needed to recover old game data > From: "Kieron Wilkinson" <Kieron.Wilkinson at paretopartners.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:59:35 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >My reasons for suggesting doing a track dump is so we can leave figuring >out the filesystem later... Which from my experience of other systems >means it is less likely we would get it wrong "on the day". It is bad >enough getting this done once, twice would not be too fun either. ;) > >But of course, CP/M is not exactly part of my previous experiences. CP/M file system is fairly easy to understand. It was fairly standardized depite media variations. A dump of any form would be reconstructable if there are no lost sectors. For 8" systems they fell onto two major groups: Hard sector: Altair and a Zilog used those. However _most_ hard sector 8" systems rarely carried CP/M. Soft sector: Most common and there was a standard interchange format for CP/M. That was 8" single sided single density (8"SSSD). Other formats that existed were CP/M on Intel (M2FM) and Odd sector sizes or double density. Likely formats in the 8" realm were fortunatly fairly few (likely one of 5). The two most common after SSSD was SSDD (single side Double density) and DSDD (double sided double density). The latter two SSDD was often seen and had a fairly similar layout compared to SSSD. The DSDD was far less common and there were a few different ideas how data should be laid down. FYI: the M2FM (intel MDS) used conventional 8" drives but the FDC was really The 5.25 worlds was chaotic as drive were developing and people needed to push those minifloppies from the base of only 80k to a more useable 360 or even 780k. Where the base 8"SSSD was 256k from day one. > >> A "photocopy" of a disk is possible using (MS)DOS, if you can >> find a MicroSolutions Compaticard IV (I have one, and no, I >> dont want to part with it). >> This card works very well; I once generated a bootable MS-DOS >> 3.1 (or 3.20?) 8" >> floppy. > >Nice. > >> The only (in my opinion) good solution, is software reading >> the CP/M (or >> whatever) disk, and decode the filestructure etc., so you can >> write a nice, continuous file. > >Absolutely, my only concern was getting that wrong. But perhaps it is >far simpler operation to work out the file system with CP/M than getting >a track dump the disk, in which case this method is probably more >appropriate. > >Of course one reason (off topic!) to dump the whole disk (down to the >flux-transition level) is to ensure you get absolutely everything on the >disk. But of course, this is only really useful for retail software that >might have applied copy protection - not really applicable for a >developers old development system! :) > >Thanks! >Kieron > >============================ >Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message. >

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Dunfield > > CP/M itself is independant of any particular disk format. It > can work with hard-sector systems, soft-sector systems, 8" > 5.25", 3.5" drives, ROM disks and RAM disks. The only real > requirement is that there be block addressable storage. Nice! At least, it probably was at the time. ;) > Most 8" systems use IBM soft-sector format, and a lot of them > use the WD series of FDC controllers. Most of these can be > read with a 765 type controller, but there are a number that > cannot. There really is a lot of variation. Okay. > Getting data from 8" drives will require some work. Chances > are that it can be recovered on a PC with ImageDisk or > TeleDisk, however to do so they would have to make an adapter > to connect the drive, connect it to the PC floppy controller, > power the drive, configure the software etc/, and you run the > risk that after all that effort, it may not be a disk format > compatible with the PC floppy controller (we could tell this > in advance if you can find out the exact type of CP/M system it is). > This sounds like it is more work they they are willing to do. Ouch. Yes, exactly. > If the original CP/M system is still running, then the > content of the disks can be pulled off with a serial > connection to a PC - but this will require getting the > connection established, getting a bit of software running on > both the CP/M system and the PC. No, only the media is available unfortunately. Hence the problem. > Failing either of the two above, then you need someone local > who can do one of the above, or have them send the disks to > someone further away who can do it. I'll contact Sellam Ismail, he is certainly looking to be my best bet so far. > I have the ability image 8" disks directly to a PC, and I > also have a multi-format copying station that I have not yet > "gotten around" to setting up (but I could do that). I also > know someone relatively close to me who does have a > multi-format copying station up and running. You could have > them send the disks to me (Ontario > Canada) which would be a bit closer than going "across the pond". Lets see what we can do on location, and if that fails, we will have to campaign to get them to send somebody the disks. :) > I've been fairly actively involved in preservation of disk > images from classic systems in the past couple of years - if Ah really? That is very interesting! Check your mail. ;) > it would help, the game developer can contact me directly to > discuss ways to recover the data. Thanks for the offer! I'll keep it in mind if things pan out that way. Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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PDP-11 Hard Drives

by James＠jdfogg.com

> I've been looking for a list of the various hard drive units > available for the PDP-11 and their capacites, but have not > been able to find one online. Can anybody help me out here? Which PDP? They span many models and 3 decades. Some later models could use "modern" (1985 modern) disks with the addition of the right interface board.

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Mabry > > There has been lots of discussion lately about 8" formats. > Perhaps we might be lucky here. There is a chance that the > 8" diskettes in question here were written in the one > standard 8" format. Single-sided, single-density. If that > is the case then there are lots of cp/m systems that can read > those diskettes. Even my Intel development systems can read > that format! And I would be happy to transfer the files to > today's format, whatever form that might be. However I am > not on the left coast and the diskettes would have to travel > through the postal system or UPS, etc., to get to me and back. > > Do you have a way to determine if the diskettes are SS, SD ??? I think ultimately, before we get further with this, I need to go back to the developer and try to get some more information on the system involved. If they can remember anyway! I'll do that, and then report back. :) Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

1
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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Nico de Jong > > Well, that does not really help very much, as a > track-by-track dump does not take the niceties of CP/M into > account, such as directory structure and where the various > segments are written. As you speak about 8" disks, we also > have to take the segment size (often 256 or 512, on some > formats 1024) into account. Eeek. My reasons for suggesting doing a track dump is so we can leave figuring out the filesystem later... Which from my experience of other systems means it is less likely we would get it wrong "on the day". It is bad enough getting this done once, twice would not be too fun either. ;) But of course, CP/M is not exactly part of my previous experiences. > A "photocopy" of a disk is possible using (MS)DOS, if you can > find a MicroSolutions Compaticard IV (I have one, and no, I > dont want to part with it). > This card works very well; I once generated a bootable MS-DOS > 3.1 (or 3.20?) 8" > floppy. Nice. > The only (in my opinion) good solution, is software reading > the CP/M (or > whatever) disk, and decode the filestructure etc., so you can > write a nice, continuous file. Absolutely, my only concern was getting that wrong. But perhaps it is far simpler operation to work out the file system with CP/M than getting a track dump the disk, in which case this method is probably more appropriate. Of course one reason (off topic!) to dump the whole disk (down to the flux-transition level) is to ensure you get absolutely everything on the disk. But of course, this is only really useful for retail software that might have applied copy protection - not really applicable for a developers old development system! :) Thanks! Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>I'm afraid I am not very familiar with CPM systems. Could you please >tell me why a conversion system is needed? Didn't they use similar FDC >chips? I (perhaps naively) assumed it would be some sort of a >NEC765-derived one and we could get a simple track-by-track dump... CP/M itself is independant of any particular disk format. It can work with hard-sector systems, soft-sector systems, 8" 5.25", 3.5" drives, ROM disks and RAM disks. The only real requirement is that there be block addressable storage. Most 8" systems use IBM soft-sector format, and a lot of them use the WD series of FDC controllers. Most of these can be read with a 765 type controller, but there are a number that cannot. There really is a lot of variation. >While this is true, the problem we have is that although we have >convinced the ex-developer to let us help them preserve this data, it >will be very much harder to get them to go out of their way to get it >done. This is the reason I was trying to get somebody local to them to >help us do it, even though they do treasure it. Getting data from 8" drives will require some work. Chances are that it can be recovered on a PC with ImageDisk or TeleDisk, however to do so they would have to make an adapter to connect the drive, connect it to the PC floppy controller, power the drive, configure the software etc/, and you run the risk that after all that effort, it may not be a disk format compatible with the PC floppy controller (we could tell this in advance if you can find out the exact type of CP/M system it is). This sounds like it is more work they they are willing to do. If the original CP/M system is still running, then the content of the disks can be pulled off with a serial connection to a PC - but this will require getting the connection established, getting a bit of software running on both the CP/M system and the PC. Failing either of the two above, then you need someone local who can do one of the above, or have them send the disks to someone further away who can do it. >It's a difficult situation for sure. > >I'll try again on the mailing of the media, but it will probably have to >be a last resort. I have the ability image 8" disks directly to a PC, and I also have a multi-format copying station that I have not yet "gotten around" to setting up (but I could do that). I also know someone relatively close to me who does have a multi-format copying station up and running. You could have them send the disks to me (Ontario Canada) which would be a bit closer than going "across the pond". I've been fairly actively involved in preservation of disk images from classic systems in the past couple of years - if it would help, the game developer can contact me directly to discuss ways to recover the data. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 8 months

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Allison > > >I'm afraid I am not very familiar with CPM systems. Could you please > >tell me why a conversion system is needed? Didn't they use > similar FDC > >chips? I (perhaps naively) assumed it would be some sort of a > >NEC765-derived one and we could get a simple track-by-track dump... > > No. the 765 was available for sale in late 1980, CP/M systems were > 3+ years old by then. Even after that point the 765 was not the > common part used for CP/M systems. That a PCism. Okay, thanks for putting me straight. I think my confusion stems from my experience of the Amstrad CPC computer that IIRC ran a CPM-derived operating system, and used the 765. > CP/M systems were largely a common coperating system a that allowed > for diverse hardware by way of a BIOS that the user or manufacturer > could configure for that hardware. There were many different disk > systems, formats and in the games space deliberate attempts to make > the disks uncopyable by standard systems. What a nightmare! > What you need is a CP/M familiar person here (actually close > to the developer) > in the usa and the data once extracted can be shipped via the > internet. > Systems that convert formats are common enough for people > that actively > collect and restore. Well that is good news at least. > >> The only "local" one I can think of from the top of my head, > >> is Sellam Ismail > > IF its in San Fancisco hes' loads closer than me (3000 miles!). Seems he lives in California at least. Maybe I can convince him to make a trip... ;) Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Nico de Jong > > Sorry, Denmark.... Ah, oops. And there is me always using the UK acronym... :) > He could use DHL, they are very reliable. > I dont think anyone is going to log a conversion system to I'm afraid I am not very familiar with CPM systems. Could you please tell me why a conversion system is needed? Didn't they use similar FDC chips? I (perhaps naively) assumed it would be some sort of a NEC765-derived one and we could get a simple track-by-track dump... > the US. It would be cheaper for him to take a plane to > Denmark, and have a nice weekend in Copenhagen, while I > hopefully do the job. While this is true, the problem we have is that although we have convinced the ex-developer to let us help them preserve this data, it will be very much harder to get them to go out of their way to get it done. This is the reason I was trying to get somebody local to them to help us do it, even though they do treasure it. It's a difficult situation for sure. I'll try again on the mailing of the media, but it will probably have to be a last resort. > The only "local" one I can think of from the top of my head, > is Sellam Ismail Ah great. Well if he does not reply to this thread, I will send them a mail. Thanks! Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: 8" floppy system needed to recover old game data > From: "Kieron Wilkinson" <Kieron.Wilkinson at paretopartners.com> > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:57:36 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nico de Jong >> >> Sorry, Denmark.... > >Ah, oops. And there is me always using the UK acronym... :) > >> He could use DHL, they are very reliable. >> I dont think anyone is going to log a conversion system to > >I'm afraid I am not very familiar with CPM systems. Could you please >tell me why a conversion system is needed? Didn't they use similar FDC >chips? I (perhaps naively) assumed it would be some sort of a >NEC765-derived one and we could get a simple track-by-track dump... No. the 765 was available for sale in late 1980, CP/M systems were 3+ years old by then. Even after that point the 765 was not the common part used for CP/M systems. That a PCism. CP/M systems were largely a common coperating system a that allowed for diverse hardware by way of a BIOS that the user or manufacturer could configure for that hardware. There were many different disk systems, formats and in the games space deliberate attempts to make the disks uncopyable by standard systems. >While this is true, the problem we have is that although we have >convinced the ex-developer to let us help them preserve this data, it >will be very much harder to get them to go out of their way to get it >done. This is the reason I was trying to get somebody local to them to >help us do it, even though they do treasure it. What you need is a CP/M familiar person here (actually close to the developer) in the usa and the data once extracted can be shipped via the internet. Systems that convert formats are common enough for people that actively collect and restore. >> The only "local" one I can think of from the top of my head, >> is Sellam Ismail IF its in San Fancisco hes' loads closer than me (3000 miles!). Allison

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8" floppy system needed to recover old game data

by Kieron.Wilkinson＠paretopartners.com

> Re: Nico de Jong > Do you have the name of the CP/M system? I am afraid I don't. However, I will try and find out, asap. > I have 120+ CP/M formats in my conversion system, so it > _could_ be an easy job. Wow. I did not consider that there was so many! If it is easier to simply take an image of the disks somehow, this is perfectly acceptable, and we can extract the files later. Of course, in this case it might be a good idea to take multiple reads just in case... > I'm located in DK Is that Dakota? Is that a long way? I'm pretty sure the person who has the disks are not going to be willing to send them by post. They are very precious - being the only copies of this stuff in existance. Thanks! Kieron ============================ Pareto Investment Management Limited is a Mellon Financial Company. Pareto Investment Management Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority (Firm Ref. No. 416024), and registered in England and Wales with Number 03169281. Registered Office: Mellon Financial Centre, 160 Queen Victoria Street, London EC4V 4LA, United Kingdom. Pareto is the registered trademark of Pareto Investment Management Limited. This message may contain confidential and privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the named addressee. Access, copying or re-use of the e-mail or any information contained therein by any other person is not authorised. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by returning the e-mail to the originator and then immediately delete this message.

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transputers

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

Come to my website at http://www.classiccmp.org/transputer. I havent set up a ST20 site yet, but what are you looking for? Datasheets, etc, etc.. Ram > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker [mailto:brad at heeltoe.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:41 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: transputers > > > > Hi, > > I find myself, in real work, for money and everything, > working on an ST20 micro. > > Little did I know it was a transputer :-) > > I recall seeing some messages here from people who seemed to > be interested in transputers. > > I'm curious - is there any nice "hints & kinks" on the web > for transputers, or a good book or tutorial? It's not that > complex but I am curious to hear from anyone "in the know" as > it where about ways to make them go fast... > > (it's so rare when my hobbies cross my day gig. note to self... :-) > > -brad >

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CRT implosions (was: Re: "screen mold")

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CRT implosions (was: Re: "screen mold") > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:34:56 -0400 (EDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Fact Check... > >> Tubes typical of that era was the smaller electrostatic types and 5up1/7 >> were of the era. > >Electromagnetic (and combo) tubes were just as common starting in the >1940s. If a tube had a P7 phosphor, it was likely intented for PPI duty, >and nearly all PPI scopes of the era were rotating yoke types. There were a few that used elctrostatic that were not PPI but time domain. There were a variety of radars used some very crude appearing by most standards for display. A few the CRT was simply a scope doing TDR on the radar pulse and it was the operators duty corrolate the antenna position with the displayed reflection. There was at least one airborne system that used two smaller tubes to display azmuth and elevation based of one transmitted source and two seperatly recived returns. By late war there was considerable evolution in radar types. There were also airborne landing aids systems that were crt based as well. I used to see them on Cannal st NY back when 1$ was a good hours pay. Fun stuff really as much of it can be duplicated in miniature using current tech at 10ghz. >> The aviation tubes used for that airborne radar were >> surrounded by a mumetal shield to keep mag fields out and the graticule >> was far thicker than the tube. > >Graticle thickness not far thicker than the tube face in many >instances. Most actually were probably thinner. They varied from 3/16 >inch to just a very thin sheet, maybe just a few thousandths thick. Yes they did. But not all. Airborne systems were prone to mechanical shock and that was a known thing. Having a radar fail was nearly as serious as damaging the trained operator. >> Tubes larger than about 10" >> didn't appear much till the mid 50s. > >12 inch tubes were very common before 1950. Just about ever World War 2 >Allied air search radar had one (or in the case of late war types, two). key words, "appear much" as in not commonplace but did exist. Even the military had inerta. Fixed service. Airborne were space limited as well as power. Allison

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CRT implosions

by technobug＠comcast.net

On04 Oct 2005 20:39:39 -0400 Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> wrote: > [...] > > An uncontrolled failure could be different. I've seen one old 1960 > vintage tv blow up and the glass was retained by a plastic or glass > sheet across the black and white tube. > > Never saw anything like a real accident, though. > > Bill > > In the mid 50s they used to show on TV a tape of a ball on a string launched into the face of an unprotected CRT. The neck proceeded through the faceplate and embedded in a 1/2" piece of plywood. Definitely made one careful when playing with the old sets. CRC

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Texas Instruments 980A minicomputer??

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Hmmm, Someone has a Texas Instrument 980A Computer, with two Diablo Series 30 Hard Drives, circa 1972, to offer. Do I want it?? __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

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IRIS update/PM2 questions

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Took a few looks at the IRIS, and it seems to be a Frankensiggy. 31xx graphics. 2000 series processor (PM2/PM2M1/SKYFFP, 68010) with ST-506 drives (safely unplugged now, don't know what's on them) Looks like the DIPS are set wrong (gives an HALT-E on the back panel, looks like memory? does anyone know?). I've been looking at the 68k IRIS FAQ, but most of that deals with 2000Turbo and 3000 models Does anybody know (a) what the 26-pin header on the front of the PM2 is? it's between the bridge to the GFX and the 8-pos DIP. Currently unconnected, should it be? Pictures of a 2400/2500 would help. (b) what are the switch settings? 3 switches on the PM2 (one on the edge, two mounted amongst the chips) (c) PM2M1 switch settings- are they like IM1 (IRIS 3000 memory)

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Apple ][ on the PSP

by vcf＠siconic.com

Apple ][ emulator on the PlayStation Portable: http://pspupdates.qj.net/2005/09/apple-ii-portable-for-psp.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

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CRT implosions (was: Re: "screen mold")

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: CRT implosions (was: Re: "screen mold") > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:44:09 -0400 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> writes: > > >> > I am told, BTW, that several radar operates in planes in the > >> last war > were killed when the plane had a heavy landing, the > >> radar display CRT > imploded, and they were litterally shot in the > >> face by bits of the > electron gun. Tubes typical of that era was the smaller electrostatic types and 5up1/7 were of the era. The aviation tubes used for that airborne radar were surrounded by a mumetal shield to keep mag fields out and the graticule was far thicker than the tube. tere were really two generations of tubes used the first ones were the fragile O'scope types and later there were special heavy glass/metal types. Generally It's rare to see a CRT exposed enough to be a hazard as there is always a case (if for HV only) and some kind of graticule. The actual expections were small O'scopes (O1) and hobby scopes. Tubes larger than about 10" didn't appear much till the mid 50s. Getting face full was unlikely due to the graticule and general consturction. I still have a bunch of 2AP1s (2" round green), 3BP1s (3" round green) for projects. These are old tubes (ca 1953/55 date codes!). I also have a modern D170 (2.2x1.8 rectangular) for some project.. >But larger flat face radar tubes appeared in the 1960s if not >earlier. The CDC 6000 series console (DD60) uses a pair of radar >tubes, with electrostatic deflection. I'm not sure exactly how big >they are, but certainly not less than 12 inches. They were probably >at least 2 feet long. Deflection voltage is around 2 kV, supplied by >an amplifier chain ending in a 3CX100A5 microwave transmitter tube. Actually earlier, the SAGE system used a larger 12 to 16 inch round with a 10-12KV Accelerator. Heck look at the tube used for the PDP-1 Console. >The radar tubes used until maybe 5 years ago at US air traffic control >centers were at least that big, possibly bigger, and also flat. Those were bigger flat face ARTS 1 and II series. If memory serves they were in the 19-21" range. The fragile portion of CRTs is always the neck area. The risk with implosion is the neck/gun assembly will be propelled foward through the screen if the screen shatters. When I was younger I'd scrounge old TVs for the componenents. The CRT being useless to me would get taken out back and put in the junk hole and a big rock heaved in. If it was put in neck first and the face crushed the neck/gun would be propelled 10 to 15 ft on a good shot to a large 19" or bigger CRT and the glass widely scattered in a 10ft or so radius, we avoided that as that meant raking up the remains. The real hazard and I got to see this once is foolish people transporting CRTs without making sure they are properly discharged. One case I did see was a doof carrying a 12" by the neck, minor cuts. The other was a fool carrying a tube from a H1500 terminal. He was careful supporting it but the face with the neck upright. However the HV was still undischarged and found it's way to his chest. CRT was dropped straight down and the neck rebounded off the floor and went straight up into the rooms ceiling tiles. Minor cuts to the lower legs, very lucky. Took a while to sweep that mess up, there was glass everywhere. Allison

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test-drb October 2005