der Mouse, you obviously know nothing about what it takes to get a concealed weapons permit in the US. I have a concealed weapons permit and I also have done practical pistol shooting. I would not want untrained individuals putting my life at risk. Having a permit in the US does not require training or anything but the money and no criminal record. I did my training at different opportunities in my life and without any requirement to do so.
With reagrds to before 9/11 and after, the paradigm shift is a fact and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not people are allowed to carry weapons on a plane. People would have risen up and brought those first plaines down if they had a clue that the planes were going to be used as weapons and they were dead already so to speak.
You can take my views however you want to in any way you care to. It wasn't your country that was attacked and left thousands dead. You have already pointed out what you think of America and its people in one of your earlier emails
-----Original Message-----
From: der Mouse <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca>
Sent: Aug 7, 2004 12:39 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Holy cow...
Sounds to me as though your issue is with getting concealed-carry
permits rather than with having people on board who are, almost by
definition, trusted with concealed weapons.
It sounds to me as though this is more an argument to scrap the whole
idea of keeping weapons out of the hands of airline passengers (at
least while they are on the plane).
On Aug 7, 11:56, Ed Kelleher wrote:
> At 08:12 PM 8/6/2004, you wrote:
> >As for it being BS, I disagree. I would rather have things safer
than
> >welcome another attack on US soil because things weren't being
checked.
>
> Sorry, it is BS. If we wanted to make things safer, we'd let
citizens with
> concealed weapons permits carry guns on planes.
Not without some suitable training and glaser safety ammunition.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball
> Sent: 03 August 2004 18:32
> To: General(a)encke.easily.co.uk;
> Discussion@encke.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: rarest computers. was: RE: Xerox Alto
> Restoration + Emulation
>
>
> Jules Richardson wrote:
> > Apple /// (possibly lots worldwide; there don't seem to be many
> > people this side of the pond who have seen one though)
>
> I have one! It came with the ProFile external hard disk, and
> a box of expansion cards, too. I rather like the two-click
> cursor keys, where you can press harder on the key to make
> the auto-repeat go faster. And I like the big holes in the
> expansion cards to help you to lever them out with a
> screwdriver. The whole of the machine chassis is one big
> diecasting and acts as a heatsink.
Yeah. I ended up with 2, one for spares, and it was a good job since I
was crashed into bringing it home and it ended up with a mashed
keyboard. Must get round to fixing it one of these days. I've also not
managed to get my spare profile working with the other working machine
yet, but it's 250 miles away and low priority :)
Cheers
--
adrian/witchy
owner & curator, Binary Dinosaurs - the UK's biggest online home
computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - former gothic shenanigans
www.aaghverts.co.uk - the place to whinge at adverts!
the last thing I would want is some average guy with a concealed weapons permit having a gun on board... getting a permit is too easy and without proper training would be more dangerous than safe.
9/11 was a paridigm shift from hijacking being a "take me where I want to go scenario" to guaranteed death. I would believe that any passenger jet that was taken over by any means would not succeed now because of what passengers would do rather than sitting back and waiting. Those days are gone.
We all have different levels of tolerance, Some of the stuff is BS with regards to what coould be considered a weapon or even that 80 year old people were searched as possibilities. In my opinion, it is not all BS. What the puiblic hears about is a fraction of what goes on. What we do hear about, we have the giovernment and media all spinning the stuff in different directions.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Kelleher <Pres(a)macro-inc.com>
Sent: Aug 7, 2004 11:56 AM
To: Steve Thatcher <melamy(a)earthlink.net>,
"General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Holy cow...
At 08:12 PM 8/6/2004, you wrote:
>As for it being BS, I disagree. I would rather have things safer than
>welcome another attack on US soil because things weren't being checked.
Sorry, it is BS. If we wanted to make things safer, we'd let citizens with
concealed weapons permits carry guns on planes.
Ed
I just heard the very end of a TV news report, where they said some airport
terminal was shut down for hours today due to a bomb scare. They described the
potential bomb as a small, odd-looking box with wires and various electrical
parts. Then they said "It turned out to be an antique microphone."
Which makes me wonder... has anyone here ever had a problem explaining vintage
computers to airport security? When I flew out to VCF last fall I proactively
told the security officer that my bag contained vintage calculators and
handheld computers, in case it looked odd to her in the X-Ray machine, but she
looked at me with an expression of "Why the heck do you think I'd care?" LOL,
however that may be more of a comment on how poor the airport security hiring
rules are.
I'd like to hear some feedback, however, please let's NOT turn this into a
rambling thread about politics or any similar B.S....
Rumor has it that David V. Corbin may have mentioned these words:
> >eyeglass screwdrivers and even nail files were taken off the list later
>last year.
> >I'm glad to hear that. But they shouldn't have
>
>Just after 9/11, my son daughter-in-lay...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I gotta ask: Typo, Freudian slip or exact description of the situation? :-O ;^>
>[snip]...After they got home by son
>realized he had a swiss army knife in an inner coat pocket [a letal weapon
>compared to a baby's fork!] that was noit detected by the same guard at the
>same time.
Admittedly, I haven't flown since 9/11, but I flew just before that, and
airport security had no problem with my leatherman. I removed it where you
"remove all metallic objects" right with my belt, they asked me what it
was, I said "Pliers." No problem... 2 knife blades, a saw blade that could
easily rip off a finger (or jugular) or just adding weight to my punch to
give it more "punch." ;-)
<RANT>
At least for the US, what we need for "Midflight Security" is a revival of
the "minuteman" concept for flying. There should be a *totally volunteer*
photo ID system of anyone willing to lay down their life in defense of the
country[1], and they get to walk on with any type and quantity of
non-projectile weapon(s) of their choice.
"But what happens when a bad apple gets a card and tries to use it" you
ask? 10 "Good apples" could easily subdue the bad one, and said "bad apple"
is tried & convicted of treason and hanged[2][3].
Despite the fact that I'm old and fat, if I have my leatherman on me and
know that there's a darned good chance 5 more people have similar, I'd go
up against a couple of bastards with boxcutters...
</RANT>
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
[1] World, for that matter...
[2] Or shot... I could live with shot... ;-)
[3] Assuming he survives... Attempting to hijack a plane with a bunch of
good guys with knives on board could prove fatal...
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson
zmerch(a)30below.com |
At 08:59 PM 8/6/04 -0400, Steve wrote:
>eyeglass screwdrivers and even nail files were taken off the list later
last year.
I'm glad to hear that. But they shouldn't have been on the list to begin
with! That's one of my points, airport security is nothing but a show to
make the public think the government is actually doing somehting about
security. But all too much of it is meaningless and useless measures such
as this. Eyeglass screwderivers and nail files have never been a threat to
an airliner that I know of! BTW metal toothpicks ARE still on the list of
"weapons". Can you tell me exactly how many airliners have been hijacked
with a toothpick?
> The people that are there are doing their job and are not given the
ability to make decisions and exceptions on their own. People making
>exceptions and doing their own security thing on 9/11 resulted in
thousands of dead people.
WRONG! The airport security people did exactly what they were supposed
to do according to the rules at that time. The 9/11 commishion found where
many mistakes were made, particularly in the intelligence area but to my
knowledge they found no procedural errors in what security did. They
actually found that some security people were suspious of the hijackers but
allowed them to board the planes because they were NOT allowed to use their
own judgement and had to follow fixed idiocic rules.
>
>Sure, the borders need to be protected better, but at least a person
running into the side of a building will only give the person a headache.
Wait a minute! What's this crap about running into buildings? Why don't
you stay on topic? A number of the 9/11 hijackers came over from Canada the
day before they hijacked the airliners on 9/11 yet you dismiss border
security my merely saying that the borders need to be better protected and
then jump to some totally irrelevent rambling about people running into
buildings. Our borders should be our first line of defense against
terrorism but they're wide open to even the most illiterate Mexican peasant
to simply walk across. It's a good thing that Alqueda doesn't wise up and
simply walk in 10,000 or so terrorists across the Canadian or Mexican borders.
>Of course, I would suppsoe that he would sue the buiding manufacturer and
win because there is no sign warning someone of getting hurt if they >do
that...
>
>As for missing badges, most security systems require the badge and an ID
code to enter, so just having a badge doesn't help much unless security is
already lax at the airport. People are to badge in, enter their code, and
then close the door so the next person does the same procedure.
That's another thing that found, people letting other people through the
doors and in some cases blocking them open and leaving them standing wide
open for anybody that came along. In addition, they've found that there
are 100s of missing airlines uniforms and a whole hosts of other security
problems. They've also found a high number of convicted felons working
there because the airports were lax about getting background checks. Like I
said, hardly a week goes by with some new revalation about problems at the
airports.
>
>If Miami is ruuning that badly then there is a good problem to start with.
Miami running badly is an understatement! It's been that way for a LONG
time and for some reason they can't seem to straighten it out. Too many
airport operators looking to pince pennies, minoritie rights, unions,
underpaid employees and other specail interest I suppose but that still
doesn't excuse the smoke and mirrors approach to security that the
government is using. Inspecting every airline passenger three and four
times before he gets on a plane isn't going to do much good when you have
drug addicts, ex-criminals and thieves working in the ground crews and wide
open access for nearly anyone that wants to get on or to an aircraft while
it's sitting on the ground.
Joe
>
>Steve
>
eyeglass screwdrivers and even nail files were taken off the list later last year. The people that are there are doing their job and are not given the ability to make decisions and exceptions on their own. People making exceptions and doing their own security thing on 9/11 resulted in thousands of dead people.
Sure, the borders need to be protected better, but at least a person running into the side of a building will only give the person a headache. Of course, I would suppsoe that he would sue the buiding manufacturer and win because there is no sign warning someone of getting hurt if they do that...
As for missing badges, most security systems require the badge and an ID code to enter, so just having a badge doesn't help much unless security is already lax at the airport. People are to badge in, enter their code, and then close the door so the next person does the same procedure.
If Miami is ruuning that badly then there is a good problem to start with.
Steve
I just got an HP9000 K Class K570 server. It's got dual 200Mhz PA-RISC
processors and 1GB RAM, plus some arsenal of hard drives.
I've never worked with HP PA-RISC machines before. What's this equivalent
to in terms of Intel processor power?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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