test-drb December 2004

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
530 discussions

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Well Hurricane Jeanne has come and gone. This is the fourth hurricane in 6 weeks and the third that's gone through my area. The DEC and intel stuff sitting outside STILL hasn't blown away! Not too much damage this time, for the most part everything that could be torn up was destroyed in the previous storms. However my roof shingles are finally starting to go. The power companies are getting GOOD at this. This time they had the power back on the same day! I think there's going to be lots of houses (or vacant lots!) for sale in Florida real soon. I went to Home Depot this morning and it was packed with people buying roofing materials and other repair items. A lot of them also had "Home for Sale" signs in their carts! I haven't heard from Glen. I know he was without power for five then seven days from the two previous storms and I think he's about ready to leave the state. Joe

20 years, 6 months

Intel MDS Series II poll

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, I'll gladly admit to having one. What a wonderful old beast. Got it a few weeks ago - covered in grime and dirt, but I cleaned up the main box and all the boards and connectors and it runs like a dream now. It's an MDS-225, and it came with the expansion chasis, double-density disk drive array, ICE-80, ICE-51 and ICE-41 emulators and software and ISIS-II disks. I ran the ROM-based diags and it all came out okay - including the integral disk drive. I need a cable (or pinouts so I can make one) to attach the disk array. I think I'll need the disk array 'cos most of the disks are double density and won't run on the integral drive. I haven't cleaned up or attached the expansion chasis yet. I'm currently on the hunt for manuals and have got most of them from the net and printed them out. Great stuff. I love this old equipment. I'm still getting used to it 'cos I've never used a diskette-only based MDS. My current pride and joy is an MDS-Series4 with ICE-85B emulator. I got another Series-4 also (when I got the MDS-225), but, as mentioned in a previous post, this baby's got a RAM error and I don't have enough spare 2118 chips to replace all the current chips, so I'm trying to isolate the chip, but it's kinds hard with no cct diagram. The CRO doesn't show anything wrong, but as the System Monitor comes up I think I'll write a short program to help isolate the fault. But, as both systems cost me only $88AUD, I can't really complain - even though their bulk is a challenge to the wife as they are in the family room. I don't think she's an "old big Intel box" sorta lady. :) Oh, thanks again to Dave for the TD images for the iPDS. I'm having a bit of fun with that thing also. Simply marvellous stuff. I got an ISIS-II users guide - thanks Fritz - so I'll be getting into this too. Ahh.. so many projects and things! I love it. seeyuzz river

20 years, 6 months

Question about memory boards used on VAX 11/7xx

by cheri-post＠web.de

Hi all, I got 2 Memory Boards (National semiconductor) several weeks ago (each 1MB). Somerwhere on the net, someone says, that these can be used in VAX 11/7xx. Can I use these boards in my PDP 11/24, too ? I don't know yet, if 32bit boards can be used on 16bit machines and I'm afraid of putting them in and seeing some smoke when turning on the machine... Pierre ________________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt neu bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021193

20 years, 6 months

Reviving old hard drives

by nbreeden2＠comcast.net

Bob, I've seen this work with IDE drives that wouldn't spin up due to bad bearings. Freeze the drive in your freezer then spin it up while it's still frozen. This seems to free the bearings for a short time so the drive can spin up. I know of a couple people who used this technique to copy the contents off a dead drive, they required several freeze passes to get all the data as the drive tends to warm up quickly once pulled from the freezer and powered up. The speculation has been that the metal contracts when frozen and releases stuck bearings, this has always seemed an 'Odd' explanation as the bearings and races should contract at the same rate assuming similar materials. Of course this is a last resort option and your experience may vary. -Neil >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:06 -0500 >From: "Bob Lafleur" <bob_lafleur(a)technologist.com> >Subject: Reviving old hard drives >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <DJauNjVuMhvqgStMVhE00000031@dj> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Is there a repository of information regarding reviving old hard drives? > >Specifically, I have a Seagate ST3390N in a Mac Iici that appeard not to >spin-up anymore. I'm wondering if there are any "tricks" that might get this >drive running again? It's got my running copy of Opcode Vision on it, and >I've not found any newer MIDI sequencing software that runs on current >systems that I'm more comfortablr with... I'd love to get my Vision running >again! > . - Bob

20 years, 6 months

Reviving old hard drives

by cb＠mythtech.net

>The speculation has been that the metal contracts when frozen and releases >stuck bearings, this has always seemed an > >'Odd' explanation as the bearings and races should contract at the same rate >assuming similar materials. Surface to mass differences should allow one to cool faster, and although both may in the end shrink to the same size, one should shrink quicker, and the initial shrink may be all that is popping it free. I'm not saying that is why the trick works... I'm just pointing out some validity in the plausible nature of the idea. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 6 months

Coolest Apple emulator EVER

by vcf＠siconic.com

http://www.virtualapple.com/ Let's you play any game from an online library of Apple ][ programs directly online using a broswer-based emulator. Requires IE and ActiveX. Too cool for words. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 30 2004, 9:09, Richard Beaudry wrote: > Hello all, > > I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com > says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is > this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require > special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the > RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the > RAM itself. Ordinary PC-type 72-pin SIMMs should be fine, but I think you need Fast Page Mode rather than EDO. You don't need parity, but it will do no harm if you have 36-bit SIMMs instead of 32-bit. lowendmac mentions 80ns, so 70ns or 60ns will also do. I bought 4 x 32MB SIMMs about 4 weeks ago on eBay for an SGI, which wants FPM+parity and gold contacts; it was quite cheap (under $20). The same seller had quite a lot that was non-parity, and he even mentioned Apples. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by aek＠spies.com

> however, EDO is required in some Macs that use DIMMs You are correct.. There is actually a pretty good description of which and why here: http://www.macgurus.com/products/motherboards/mbppc6400.php I had forgotten about the late Alchemy designs with soldered down EDO RAM.

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by richard.beaudry＠gmail.com

Hello all, I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the RAM itself. Thanks for any help .... BTW, the 8100 was introduce in early 1994, so I think I'm actually on topic! :-) Rich B.

20 years, 6 months

Reviving old hard drives

by marvin＠rain.org

I've talked to the engineers at DMA Systems (removeable HD mfg that was bought out by Ricoh?) and they indicated they would test run their drives with no cover (in an open room, not a clean room.) The caveat was to not be in a dusty or dirty environment. I've done what Jules mentions and it works well! I did that on a HD just to see what would happen ... nothing, and it worked fine for another couple of years after I put the cover back on. There is usually a filter inside the (older?) disk drives and I *think* it will clean out any dust that got in the drive while the cover was off. > Jules Richardson wrote: > > Another bonus last-resort trick is to pull the lid on the drive and get > the platters spinning 'by hand' - just don't touch the data surfaces, > and there's no guarantee as to how long the drive will keep going (don't > run the drive open obviously - in fact some drives won't even run up to > speed when open). Copy data off, then chuck the drive. Someone told me > of a drive they ran completely open for a couple of weeks for giggles > before it finally crashed.

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by cb＠mythtech.net

>No systems that shipped used EDO. We went from FPM to SDRAM. Not entirely accurate... although the ones I was thinking of don't use EDO anyway (my memory told me the 660AV and 840AV required EDO memory installed in pairs... I just looked it up and it appears I'm wrong, they don't care). However, there ARE Macs that require EDO (according to Apple), but upon looking that up, it looks like it may only be DIMM based machines, so it still wouldn't apply to this instance (where I said there were some that required EDO 72 pin SIMMs). So you are correct, it appears that there are no 72 pin simm based units that require EDO, however, EDO is required in some Macs that use DIMMs (which as everyone knows is NOT the same thing as SDRAM). Specifically, the 4400, 5500, and 6500 require EDO... and the 7200 can NOT use EDO, in fact there is a note saying it may damage the machine. The rest can use FMP or EDO simms or dimms (according to the same chart, the 8100, the system in question, wants FMP but will use EDO as FMP if EDO are installed... which is consistant with what I have found of any other 72 pin SIMM mac I've upgraded) <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=19456> -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by aek＠spies.com

Some require EDO -- No systems that shipped used EDO. We went from FPM to SDRAM.

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Ordinary PC-type 72-pin SIMMs should be fine, but I think you need Fast >Page Mode rather than EDO. Based on my findings, I've yet to run into a Mac that can't use EDO. Some require EDO, but so far, all the ones I've played with that are supposed to use FPM, work just fine with EDO instead. (note: I have never upgraded an 8100, so for all I know, that could be the one model that really does care). Again, this is based on 72 pin SIMMs. It seems that Apple's 72 pin SIMM requirements were pretty loose compared to their other memory requirements. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 6 months

Powermac 8100/80 RAM question

by cb＠mythtech.net

>I have a Powermac 8100/80 that needs a RAM upgrade. Lowendmac.com >says that it can handle 72-pin SIMMs, up to 32MB each. My question is >this: does it take the same 72-pin SIMMs as a PC, or does it require >special "mac-only" SIMMs? Google only showed people still selling the >RAM (for outrageous prices), and I couldn't get actual specs on the >RAM itself. Plain old cheap PC simms work fine. If you can, get non-parity as that was what it really called for, but I have successfully used parity in any mac I've tried (that require 72 pin simms that is... 30 pin ones will NOT work with parity for the most part... there are a few exceptions like the version of the IIci that was specifically designed TO use parity, as well as IIRC, some of the last models to use 30 pin would work with either style). You should be able to pick them up cheap from enough places. One thing in your favor... the Mac isn't very picky about matched simms, so you may be able to buy a bunch from somewhere like 18004memory.com that sells unmatched parts pretty cheap in their clearance section. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

20 years, 6 months

DEC: System Industries 9901-6082-A

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. I have a quad Qbus board in front of me. It is labeld "System Industries 9901-6082-A". It has two 40 pin IDC connectors, lots of TTL, four AMD2905, three EPROMs, the usual PALs, ... This is some sort of disk controler according to google. What I didn't find out: Is this the complete controler or is this only a part of a controler? There is a "System Industries 9900". It is a separate 19" rack box containing a SMD (?) controler. It is interfaced to SBI or UniBus or ??? with a bus interface card and ribbon cables. Maybe the card I have is the QBus interface card? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

20 years, 6 months

Defective IBM core memory by frost.

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, I am a happy owner of a IBM System/3. This system was standing unpacked in my garage for more then 10 years waiting to be put back into service. If was stored in perfect working condition. Last week I started to restore my old IBM system/3 to working condition. After solving several problems in the power up sequence the system was ready to be IPL-ed. Immediately I had a processor check. Checks lights indicated storage problems. After investigation I discovered that the several X wires on the core planes where open. These wires are mounted by IBM on a square frame. During a heavy forst period (I live in the Netherlands) while standing in a unheated garage the copper X wires shrink and broke. About 20% of the X wires are broken. None of the Y wires (???). These planes are stacked on top of eachother by IBM and the X/Y wire terminals are welded together. This makes the planes non-accessible to repair the open wires. I now have 2 unit (each 32k) both located in the system defective beyond repair and idem a spare unit of 16k. Any one who has such IBM storage unit available to bring my IBM S/3 back to live...? See http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/32kBSM.jpg Regards Henk Stegeman

20 years, 6 months

Problems with my PDP 11/24 (was:Question about memory boards used n VAX 11/7xx)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 "Pierre Gebhardt" <cheri-post(a)web.de> wrote: >>> That's the info I found on the net from a 11/750 FAQ: >>> >>> "National Semiconductor Memory Systems: 1Mb memory boards. These >>> boards have PWB 551109464-002 B >>> PWA 980109464-001 D >>> etched on them. They have a push-button switch for disabling the >>> board, and a spare memory chip in a socket on the board. Board has >>> green and yellow LEDS, which should normally both be on. Disabling >>> the board causes the yellow LED to go out, and the red LED on the >>> L0016 to come on, indicating bad memory configuration." >> >> Those almost certainly aren't UNIBUS memory boards, but are >> 11/750-specific boards. > > Thanks for this information, Patrick. > I guess, I'll have to wait for such a VAX, I haven't one yet ;-) Actually, the memory system in a VAX-11/750 are specific to that model. It's not compatible with the VAX-11/780, nor the 11/730. However, the memory backplane is compatible with the MK11 memory box for the PDP-11/70. Unfortunately, the MK11 controller only deals with 256Kb memory boards. So if you'd like to use these 1 Mb memory boards in an 11/70, you need a small hardware hack, and a small software hack. The hardware hack is to tie four board select lines from the backplane into to address lines for the memory card, and the software hack is to reset all the ECC bits in the high 768K of each card, since the MK11 controller only clears ECC on the low 256K. I have done both of these things on an 11/70 here in the past. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 6 months

Cray CS6400 CD on epay

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Don't know what it is but those with Cray CS6400s might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5113304032… =1 Paxton Astoria, OR

20 years, 6 months

LF: Tektronix Model 31 Info AVL: Olivetti Programma 101parts/docs

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 23:21 29/12/2004 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> Just picked up an Tektronix Model 31 desktop calculator. This is a >> fairly old (early 70s) desktop programmable with built in tape storage >> and printer. >> >> Looking for information/documenation on it - all I got was the bare >> unit (which looks to be in good shape). > >It's not much, but somewhere I have the service manual for the 4661 >plotter that was used with this machine. I think at least I could get you >a pinout of the I/O connector if that's of any interest. > >-tony Thanks Tony, If you already have it scanned, I would love a copy, however don't go to the effort of copying it just yet if you have not already done so. I am unlikely to actually use the I/O port in the near future... Btw, checked it over this afternoon and applied power - came right up and everything seems to work - even figured out how to write (and run) a short program on it! Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 6 months

What are terminals worth?

by aek＠spies.com

I have a wyse wy-50 and a vt101 in good condition that I need to get rid of... I'm wondering if they're even worth putting on ebay. -- yes, esp if the vt101 has a working power supply. I don't know what is is about late 70's DEC switchers, but just about everything I have now with them in is dead (VT100's, 11/44's, et al)

20 years, 6 months

Update -- Interview with the Commodore buyer!

by news＠computercollector.com

Just posted an article about this news to my web site, http://news.computercollector.com. -- Evan K. ===== Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter! -- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address -- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us -- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all -- W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news(a)computercollector.com -- 628 readers and counting!

20 years, 6 months

Rand

by aek＠spies.com

[Computing] I have been told that _Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology_ was required reading at the Xerox PARC lab where OOP was invented, but this may be merely an urban legend. -- wilcoxb at cs.colorado.edu (Bryce Wilcox) -- In view of the temporal sequence, it seemed plausible to ask whether Rand¹s work had any actual influence on Kay and his colleagues at Xerox PARC. In October 2001, I sent electronic mail messages to Kay, and to all the members of his original Smalltalk team whose e-mail addresses were available on the Internet, asking this question. The replies I received were unanimous: Ayn Rand¹s epistemology was not discussed by or known to any of them. Kay kindly sent me an extended reply, reproduced in Appendix A http://www.objectivistcenter.org/events/advsem03/ReedOOP.pdf

20 years, 6 months

HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy

by vcf＠siconic.com

I just found a nice book that I'm sure a few people (Tony in the least) would find interesting (if they don't already have a copy). It's called "HP-41 Synthetic Programming Made Easy" by Keith Jarett. It was published in 1982 by Synthetix. There's no ISBN but it does have a Library of Congress Catalog Card Number of 82-62786. It's 192 pages and seems very in-depth. No results turned up in online used book stores but several web references result from a search, including one here in the Museum of HP Calculators: http://www.hpmuseum.org/prog/synth41.htm -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 6 months

Fwd: Paperclip Computer Book

by dhbarr＠gmail.com

Continuing my trend of top-posting, forwarded-to-personal-addresses naughtiness in search of a copy of this book. Was anyone able to find a copy? If not I can make the 200 mile drive to the nearest (supposed) copy and see how liberal the library allows me to be with my laptop and scanner. On further archive scans, I noted that some may have documentation (brochures, manuals, etc.) for the commercial model (ct-650) or photos of finished systems. I am interested in obtaining copies of ANY related material.) TIA, -dhbarr. PS: Sorry about doubly forwarding the list. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David H. Barr <dhbarr(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:05:45 -0600 Subject: Paperclip Computer Book To: design.fort(a)ns.sympatico.ca Greetings! What ever happened with your project listed on: http://www.computermuseum.20m.com/alcosser.htm? Do you still have the book? I'm interested in building one of these things myself, but I have NEVER been able to find a complete copy of the book. Please respond, even if it is decidedly in the negative. Thanks in Advance, -dhbarr.

20 years, 6 months

Semi-OT: Acard LVD-to-IDE Bridge

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Has anyone played with the LVD SCSI to IDE bridges that Acard is selling now? I'm trying to figure out if they'll sync down to the speed of the SCSI bus that they're plugged into. I'm thinking about getting a SCSI-to-IDE bridge for my VMS system which currently uses UW-SCSI. If it will work, I'd just as soon buy a LVD bridge, as they're cheaper and will be better when I finally upgrade my VMS system. I'm tending to suspect they don't sync down, as they sell U-SCSI, UW-SCSI and U160 LVD SCSI models. Zane

20 years, 6 months

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test-drb December 2004