>From: chris <cb(a)mythtech.net>
>
>>From what I remember, those probes (and most (all?) other deep space probes, I
>>think), use a radioisotope decay generator for power. This is a
>>sub-critical-mass nuclear power plant; it uses the heat produced by a
>>near-critical lump of plutonium to generate electricity, rather then using
>>fission to produce heat to produce electricity.
>
>So is this the power supply all those whiney people were bitching about
>NASA trying to put into a Mars probe? They were all afraid the probe
>would explode during launch and be ground zero of a nuclear blast (or
>some other most likely vagely based on reality doomsday outcome activists
>are notorious for).
>
>-chris
><http://www.mythtech.net>
>
Hi
You can't even get a pile of plutonium of greater than critical
mass to blow up, by it self. It will just get hotter and hotter
until is melts or if contained long enough to vaporize. To
make a bomb you need to increase the neutrons quickly. In
a bomb, this is done with a thing called a trigger.
What most where worried about was just the accidental
spread of radioactive material in the atmosphere. I don't know
about you but I don't like breathing that stuff if I don't
have to. The problem is that NASA doesn't have a good track
record for using common sense to avoid accidents.
I'm still in favor of them using the radioactive power sources
for the probes, I just wish it was someone else determining
when and how it was safe to launch them.
Dwight
> > True, but I doubt that Hans or any of the rest of us are planning on
> > trashing the originals after they've been copied.
>
> Maybe not on this list, but I have seen it happen far too often
> elsewhere. People think the latest/greatest storage media must be more
> reliable that something that's rather more ancient...
For some of the stuff I'm copying to more modern media, I have to keep the
originals, even if it becomes unreadable, in order to be legal.
In some cases I've had to archive the original material, and then reuse the
original Media (RL02's come to mind).
> > I think the thing to remember is, just because you've transferred
> > something from original media to "modern" (for the moment) media, you
> > aren't off the hook forever. Those same copies will have to be
> > copied to "modern" media at some point in the future. Depending on
>
> I would never want to rely on this happening, simply because it won't
> always happen. People forget, or they assume tbat nobody will ever what
> 'that old file'. And then it's lost for ever.
I'm trying the following with my archive of DEC stuff.
1. I have the archive on my fileserver (I prefer keeping copies on two
different spinning hard drives).
2. I have two backup copies, one I keep, and one my parents keep.
3. I update #2 when additions are made to #1, keeping the previous backups.
Zane
I spent last weekend at the European Vintage Computer Fair
(www.vcfe.org) in Munich. I didn't take anything along for display
myself, but spent the time looking at what the others had brought.
I guess my favourites were the CP/M portables, since I haven't played
with one for years. Gaby Chaudry (www.gaby.de) had brought along a
Kaypro and an Osborne 1. I'm not sure how we ever survived with the
tiny screen on the latter.
Other highlights: a nice display of disk drive head assemblies, from the
huge to the miniature; evolution of the Mac LC (I'm not into these, but
it was interesting); an IDE interface for the Z80 (if they ever do an
8080 version I'll take one); lots of old machines doing very impressive
things, showing that there is still effort going into to programming and
updating.
I suppose the thing which came home to me was how there was an explosion
of PC design in the late 70s/early 80s before things converged to the
IBM/Apple paths.
Tours were running to see the Cray-4 & Cyber 960 (www.cray-cyber.org)
and I went along for a look. The temperature reminded me of when I had
my 360/30 running. These machines are available for remote access, the
Cray runs 24 hours a day.
I paid a quick visit to Hans Franke's warehouse, I'm sure he has one of
everything hiding there somewhere. I haven't seen a SC/MP evaluation
board for, well, decades.
Hans' presentation on storing vintage computer data as XML made me
realise that the most important thing is to get everything preserved,
and then work out what to do with it. I could store everything I've
ever written on an 8-bit computer in a corner of my existing hard drive
and not even notice it was there. I've got to dig out all those KCS
cassettes, ASR33 printouts and even a few bits of paper tape and get
them transferred.
Finally, I visited the Deutsches-Museum in Munich for a final fix of
computer stuff (www.deutsches-museum.de/e_index.htm). They have a very
good display of calculating and computing machinery, from ancient
instruments through Zuse Z3, Univac, IBM360 up to a Cray 1. I have a
soft spot for the 360/20, even if it's not quite as good as a /30.
Thanks to Hans for all his organisation, and to all the others that made
it such a good weekend. I will be back next year, hopefully as an
exhibitor.
--
Lawrence Wilkinson ljw(a)formula1.demon.co.uk
Ph +44(0)1869-811059 http://www.formula1.demon.co.uk
Found another HP 1000 today :-) It has three CCAs that I can't identify.
They're all PN 5061-3432. Besides the usual TTL logic they have the
following socketed ICs; 8 4116 memories, one EPROM and the following Zilog
ICs; (2) Z8430A PS, (2) Z8410A PS, Z8400A PS, Z8442A PS. Anybody know what
these are?
Joe
I am leaving the hobby/lifestyle of classic computing. I will not
participate in any discussion of the reason. The decision has been made.
What remains is to divest myself of my remaining collection. Part of that
process is underway in private dealings with certain individuals. The rest
of my collection will be offered in lots on eBay. If you don't like that,
tough. I believe that eBay is the best way to get the word out about
available items, the best way to deal fairly with prospective takers, and
the best way to ensure that the items go to good homes. The first set of
auctions will begin in the next few days. I will consider trades for other
items; a list of things I am seeking will accompany each auction.
I will continue my duties as list moderator for some time. Jay will see to
the long-term continuation of list services.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
>From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk
>
>> A friend has an IMSAI 8080 that he still uses to burn PROMs ... that's the
>> oldest one I know of.
>
>It's nowhwere near the oldest computer still in use (since it's based on
>a microprocessor), but when I need to program 1702s, I have to use my
>Intellec MCS8i, since that's the only machine I have with a suitable
>programmer. And that machine is older than an Imsai.
>
>
>-tony
>
Hi
I use my 4004 system for 1702A's. I suspect that is at least
one or two years older than your MCS8i.
Dwight
Some sad news...
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cnet/stories/1000732.htm
and
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9415
Quote:
"Morrow, who was 69, was a member of the Homebrew Computer Club, many
of the members of which became instrumental in pushing the concept
of the personal computer.
He formed a firm called Microstuf and was responsible for the design
of the S100 bus."
-------------------
Thomas Dzubin
Calgary, Saskatoon, or Vancouver CANADA
>From: "Kapteyn, Rob" <kapteynr(a)cboe.com>
>
>I think RTG stands for "Radioactive Thermal Generation" or something like that.
>
>It is a hunk of plutonium that, on its own, glows at a high temperature.
>Since the temperature of space is near absolute zero, there is a large
temperature difference.
>A relatively simple, dependable thermocouple generates electrical power from
this temperature difference,
>making a really long-lasting, dependable battery -- but not of the sort you
want in your kid's toys :-)
Hi
At least I know for sure that the Cassini uses a linear Stirling
engine and not thermocouples. These are much more efficient at producing
electricity with a thermal source. The linear ones can use magnetic
bearings and don't have wear factors to worry about. They can
also be controlled to give a more constant power output by changing
the efficiency as the radioactive source runs down.
Dwight
