I can't find the message from the person from the
Philadelphia area that spoke about running a recycling
service with some old equipment to get rid of...
You wouldn't have any TRS-80 Equipment would you?
This whole Model IV thread has got me interested in
getting a working unit again.
Contact me off list if you do.
I would also be interested in any Atari ST or Amiga
Equipment as well..
Regards,
Al
Very interesting reading,
I also have a few 8088 games the will not run on
todays machines,mostly due the the hardcoded timeing
loops.
one would think that by now someone would write a cpu
slowdown pgm that does not affect the hardcoded
graphics code - like all the current ones do.
i have most of the ge numalogic "pc loader" for the
pc900 - pc1100 and the pc based programer for ge
series 6 model 60 plc's.
i also have to use a 486 and lower on the plc and
motorola radio programming software.
the reason that these programs will not run on a
faster then 486 (some only run releably on a 286)
is that the cpu speed runs the coded loops too fast.
that results in the pgm trying to read/write to the
device (radio or plc) faster then the programs i/o
instructions can respond.
i have had no trouble useing high speed serial ports
with the newer uart's.
the slowdown programs "time wasting cpu loop" does
slow down the program run, but the loop chops up the
i/o also and the devices always want 100% of the i/o
ports attenation - which results in the i/o loop being
droped and/or the program hanging or looping.
the problem could be a good one though, at least we do
have a use for the 8088's to 486's ;)
Bill
Message: 30
From: "TeoZ" <teoz(a)neo.rr.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system...
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 12:00:32 -0500
Reply-To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
Those packages have the same problems as older dos
games.
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/help/oldonnew/
"The second advantage is a natural resistance to
obscure programming
techniques, like self-modifying code. The 80386
doesn't have an
internal
cache like the 486 and higher, so most self-modifying
code works as
good as
it did on the original 8088."
I found alot of install routines written when the 386
was around would
cause
errors on faster machines because they hard coded
timer loops for user
input.
Since the PLC software uses the comm ports and they
are most likely
buffered
newer computers feed the data too fast for the serial
port.
One thing to try on faster machines is to disable
internal and external
cache in the system bios, then hit the turbo button to
slow the
processor
down to 8mhz (if possible)
If you really need a 386 motherboards with chip and
memory can be found
on
ebay really cheap, but are not too common. Buying an
old 386 from ebay
isn't
worth it because of the shipping costs of the heavy
boat anchors, but
motherboards are cheap. Getting a case from a local
thrift store to run
it
in wouldn't be too expensive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rice" <jrice54(a)charter.net>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for a 486 system...
> When I was working in process controls, we had PLC
programming
software
> from two different companies that would only run on
certain
processors.
> The original SLC-500 series software from
Allen-Bradley would not run
on
> a 486, but would scream on a 286 or 386. As soon as
you tried to run
it
> on a 486 or higher, instant crash, taking DOS
totally down to the
point
> only pushing the reset would reboot it. The PLC-2
series from ICOM
> would run on 8088-Pentiums, but faster than a 286
and the comm port
> control routines refused to communicate with the
system making it
> totally useless. There was a MMI package we used,
the names elludes
me
> (it's early) that wouldn't run if installed on a
hard drive over
240mb.
> It had a space checking routine that couldn't handle
hard drives over
> 240mb, or a processor over a 486DX25. It would
crash if either the
> drive was too large or if the system was too fast.
All of this
software
> was still current in 1994-98.
>
> As far as finding an older system, except for the
386 that is kind of
a
> museum piece, we scrapped eveything below 1ghz a
couple of months
ago.
Saw this on another list I'm subbed to...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3403896676&category=3706
>Operational DEC GIGAswitch/FDDI Loaded with line cards and operational
>Several MIC Fddi Cables Also
>
>DEC GIGAswitch/ATM
>
with a buy-it-now of $0.01(US). The catch:
>You have to Arrange Shipping....... and pay for it...
>
Er, Um, well, it's at least partially true that it's a PLATO terminal.
It looks like a CDC 7xx "Viking" terminal.
IIRC it was your basic serial RS-232 ASCII terminal, with some escape codes
that could put it into "PLATO" mode, which had its own proprietary character
and graphics command codes.
At least some of these had what many think is the worst keyboard ever
designed, with very heavy springs plus lots of friction on every key and no
click orfeedback whether you'd pressed the key far enough to register. Felt
like you were pressing onto cookie dough.
Not much you can do with the PLATO aspects of the terminal, unless you get a
CDC Cyber simulator going, plus a PLATO binary, plus a multiplexer
emulator...
Regards,
George
> From: Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs(a)grandecom.net>
>
> The thread has inspired me to pull my Model IV out
> of the closet and fire it up. Still works great.
> Some of the keys on the keyboard are a bit
> stubborn. Anyone have any tips for negotiating
> with the Model IV keyboard. I've never tried
> taking it apart.
>
> Kevin
It's an epidemic!!!
*Grin!*
I can't say for sure this will work, but what I used
to do on Model I keyboards is to pop the tops off the
keyboard, blast them with a little compressed air, and
then a little bit of TV Tuner Cleaner.
IF, the Model IV keyboard is one you can do that with.
If this keyboard has sealed keys, and you can't see
the contacts, you might just have dust and crud under
the keys.
Again, popping the keys and hitting them with a little
bit of alcohol should help that.
Check whatever cleaning solution you use to make sure
it doesn't eat plastic.
Good luck, and enjoy!!!!
Regards,
Al
> The key taped on top lets the VAX be switched from the VT to the
>modem, thus allowing DEC access to the computer. What color is the key?
Kind of grey. It looks like a tube lock type key, but there is nothing in
the center. So the whole key seems to just be the one little pin sticking
out from it. Obviously not meant for security, but more to prevent
accidental turning of the "lock".
And it came untaped from the top in transport, so now the key is loose in
a box with all the cables. I didn't notice anything I grabbed that looked
like it could use the key.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Thanks for the assistance to date!
Actually, I have a second M7800 card installed on the PDP-11/10 machine. I
was having so much difficulty with getting a 20mA terminal (LA36-DP - OEM of
an LA36) to work, I just about disabled the console SLC and reconfigured the
the M7800 to work as the console! I also have M780 spares if I need them.
(If anyone knows anything about the dip switches on the DataSouth Printer
board in the LA-36DP P/n 5120000-1, I would be most grateful!)
As far as memory, there are two 16kw core systems installed on this machine.
I also have lots of paper tapes (mostly diagnostics, but also Fortran
compiler), and 9-track tapes. I am needing to know what I am looking for to
get RT-11 running. What did DEC call their install tapes? eg. Is the
"RT-11 V03B BIN MT9 1/2" tape the boot/install tape?
Is RT-11 the easiest O/S to get installed? I want to get to a point where I
can verify the hardware is all running.
As far as media devices, I have 3 x RK05, 1 x TS03, 2 x RX01, 1 x TU58. I
am trying to decide what will be moved to the PDP-11/10 from the 11/20. The
goal is to have the PDP-11/20 up and running. Getting the PDP-11/10 is just
a step along the way.
Where is this VTServer people had mentioned? I don't recall this item.
Thanks.
--barryM
>From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>Subject: Re: resurrecting a PDP-11/10
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:14:12 -0800 (PST)
>
>--- pavl <pzachary(a)sasquatch.com> wrote:
> > I would strongly recommend using TU58.exe on a host pc to emulate a
> > serial tape drive on your second serial port (you DO have a second slu?)
>
>On a machine that old? Unlikely. Machines of the era before the DZ-11,
>and especially machines that were not destined for timesharing, tended
>to have few serial ports, - a console and probably nothing else. It was
>a boon that a low-end Qbus machine commonly came with a DLV11J with a
>port for the console, a port for a TU58 and two more ports for DECwriters
>or machine-to-machine communication or whatever.
>
>It's easy enough to _add_ a second SLU card, (DL-11something), _if_
>you have one lying around (which I expect he doesn't).
>
> > to boot RT11 off virtual tape so you can poke around and build a system
> > from there.
>
>As a place to put RT-11, a virtual TU58 isn't a bad idea. Hopefully
>wharever emulator you have can emulate both units - the TU58 is kinda
>small, even compared with 8" floppies.
>
> > VTserver is really amazingly great, but you may not have enough ram and
> > booting RT or XXDP from a slu will give you better diagnostics to assess
> > your RK05,etc
>
>How much RAM does VTserver require? Older versions of RT-11 (those
>contemporary with the 11/10) are usable at aroun 8KW, IIRC. Of course
>the full 28KW is nice, especially if you want to run large apps like
>ADVENT, but the CUSPS should all run with minimal RAM.
>
>-ethan
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Jeffrey:
I made a board a couple of years ago that provided a current loop interface
and a pic for ascii/baudot and speed conversion. I am in the process of a
second-gen of that board. It will let you use a baudot machine to
interface to a 232 port in ascii.
If you get the 32, let me know; but don't pay too much. On the plus side,
even if you don't want the 32 down the road, you can find a 33 in ratty
cosmetic condition and swap the guts, since the 32 looks like it has a case
and stand in very good condition (not easy to find good cosmetics).
gil
>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 22:32:58 -0600
>From:
>To: ClassicCmp Lists <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
>Subject: ASR-32 Usable as Terminal?
>Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3010656618
>
>I just realized, *after* bidding, that this TTY on eBay is a 32, not a 33.
>Oops. Since it uses baudot code instead of ASCII and has a rotary dialer on
>its CCU, is it useless as a terminal for a PDP-11? What would be required to
>make it useful for a terminal?
>
>I'm thinking that I should cancel my bid. I want a TTY solely to have a
>period terminal for my PDP-11/20. :-/
>
>Yes, I have read the following in the "vital poop" thread:
>
>> Before you spend big bucks on ebay
>> ----------------------------------
>> A Model 33 has a four-row keyboard (not including the space bar).
>> A Model 32 has a three-row keyboard (not including the space bar).
>> The 33 is ascii, and the 32 is baudot.
>> You cannot (prctically) modify a 32 into a 33.
>
>--
>Jeffrey Sharp
;-----------------------------------------------------------
; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556
; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558)
;-----------------------------------------------------------
