test-drb April 2002

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

280 participants
1162 discussions

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Yes, Glen, I know already. No offense, but I'm looking for information, rather than opinion. I'm looking for info on an RT-4620-27A5S dual-CPU tower. It appears to be an EISA? RAID-equipped server. All I can find is some references on the NetBSD list, with no details as to the hardware. Is it really, finally, truly the mythical NT-only computer? Doc

22 years, 8 months

Anyone Care About RT-11

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Jerome Fine said: > By the way, for myself, I would VERY much appreciate > being in touch with all individuals who have a copy of the > RT-11 Freeware CD V2.0 so that we might exchange > information about RT-11. I have a copy. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

22 years, 8 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:28 PM The whole mid 80s thing with workstations was a disaster in many respects as everyone was trying to put more processor in a box and unix was the OS of choice as it was easily ported and offered most of the higher level OS functions that stuff like DOS was clueless about. The problem was unix was easily ported though it didn't make for portable apps, usually due to underlying hardware or even the basic processor. In that respect CP/M and DOS made it easier as at least if it was CP/M-80 you knew your base cpu was 8080/z80 and if it was DOS you could bet on 808x. Unix back then meant MIPS, VAX, PDP-11, SUN/sparc, 68000, Z8000, and a few dozen I likely missed. >I've got about half-a-dozen of the free assembler/simulator/debugger packages >for Windows some of which come along with compilers for PL/M, Pascal, and 'C.' >I'm certainly not surprised that there are UNIX tools of that sort around, >since the 805x core has been around since '84 or so, when I started with it. >Back then, BTW, there was no Windows, nor was there much freeware. I used >UNIX on SUN hardware back then and it cost $100K a year for the personnel >needed to keep the rather small SUN system running. The typical EDA software >package cost over $200K and was patched about once a month, resulting in about >ten days' downtime per patch. Note the 8051 is 1981. I started with that chip using freeware under CP/M-80 and still use most of those tools. When there was a requirement I'd use a commercial compiler from Avocet systems a relatively inexpesive package back then. The idea that PCs were a unversal platform and was foreign to me until the vary late 80s ('89!). Even then DOS was the default not winders, assuming it wasn't SCO unix or the like. In the end a lot has been forgotten about the timeframe from 82 to about 88 where there was not just a little flux in the market and the PC was only one player. >happily went back to CP/M, which served much better, in my view. >Unfortunately, there was little freeware of any use for CP/M just as there is >for Windows. The OS was not available in source form, nor was it likely you'd Actually there was but the problem of incompatable media was crippling unless you had the majik 8"sssd box. The realy 80s was an explosive time for CP/M-80 software if you could get it in a form you could use. There was a large amount stuff published, but typing in 8-10 pages of listing was often a good reason not to persue it. What was also a bonus was the amount of cheapware (low cost), stuff that was good but, cheap to buy. >find source code for any application that was of any use. Back then, if you >wanted development software tools that worked pretty well, you bought >Microsoft compilers, assemblers, linkers, etc. Their stuff worked, was >adequately documented, etc. Actually back (pre 83ish) then MS was a language and development tool house and I'd say a fairly decent one at the time. >Nothing lasts forever, though. Roger that! Allison

22 years, 8 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Your a Holocaust denier ? Ok, I was wondering when somebody was going to mention Hitler. Thread closed -- we can all go home now. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 8 months

wang 2200 MVP & more looking for home (fast!)

by frustum＠pacbell.net

Last night I was contacted by Joe Kultgen about a wang 2200 MVP he needs to get rid of by the end of the month. Although I'm into the 2200, I'm interested in just a few early models. Please contact Joe directly at rtfm AT tds DOT net >Hi, > > Are you still looking for some vintage Wang 2200 hardware? > > About six years ago I pulled one out of service at a brokerage I >support. I have the following; > >3 2200 MVP Processors >1 2200 MVPC Processor >1 Magna removable hard disk + a half dozen disks. (Uses a removable hard >disk platter in plastic cartridge, 10MB) >2 twin bay extrernal hard drives (One has 2 MFM drives, other has 1 MFM and >one 5 1/4 floppy) >2 drive towers (6 bay?) that include 5 1/4 floppy and DAT tape drives. >1 large box of drive controlers, I/O, and memory cards. >1 Dumb terminal & keyboard >25 lbs. of assorted Wang docs and manuals > >Interested? >Joe Kultgen >RTFM Technical Services and in a subsequent email: > The reason I'm dumping the stuff is that I'm relocating my shop. I have >to be out by the end of the month. If you'd like to circulate the list, >please feel free. If somebody expresses an interest in paying the shipping, >they can have their pick of the pile, first come first served. I'll hold >stuff that anyone wants past the 30th, everything else hits the dumpster. ----- Jim Battle == frustum(a)pacbell.net

22 years, 8 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > And today you have enough hardware in a PC box to support > 5,000 people doing the same thing, not that your lust for faster > hardware is over, because unix is doing things that Ken and Dennis > never envisioned. It's a shame that it has so much power, and yet is so poorly engineered, but I don't' suppose that's the point here. > ""If we prevent them from doing stupid things, we also prevent > them from doing creative things"" - Cant Remember Who But abstaining from stupid things is not the same as preventing others >from doing them. In other words, it can't hurt to be careful what you do, yourself, and to make the judgment whether this thing which you're about to do is actually worth, for instance, a sacrifice of consistency. > And these new things are seem seemless because the system > concepts are extensable with flexability in depth Seamless is a very relative term, but ok, I'll go with that. > Winblows by contrast has the depth of leftist reason and > the flexability of a socialist utopian machine gunner setting up > 40 paces from a fresh dug mass grave ditch. > and like winblows, equal use and benifit to you if your aim > and desire > dont fit with theirs. Wow, you're really down on these "leftists," aren't you. I'm certainly glad I've never met one ;) They sound scary, especially if they're that much like windows. > Flexability is freedom, freedom gives birth to creativity. ...which leads to new ideas, which lead, of course, to cheese. In other words, you may want to be more clear about your logic here. Even though I agree in principle with the above, it's very sensational, and there's nothing to support it. > True or false dont matter ? you really would make a good leftist > ( called liberal today, even as the real liberal is the opposite of a > leftist, its George Orwells newspeak, todays liberals are > not liberals > they are leftists, perhaps Marxocrat would be a good label ) I really hope you're not trying to make this into a more political discussion than it is now. > > It is not the plumbing -- it is what goes down the pipe > that needs to > > be standarded! > This is wrong, to do so would eliminate creativity. I don't think so. The fact that the standard exists, and is generally followed, doesn't prevent somebody from making a new standard or an extension to the old one where necessary. > New protocols are invented every day, the usefull ones end up > being adopted and the bad ones on the ashheap. It would be great if it did work that way -- now who's being utopian? ;) > On a 2 button mouse, you press both buttons to simulate > button 3, it works smoothly and perfectly well. You _can_ with XFree86, and friends. I certainly hope you don't think that those are the only X servers available. Some servers (while being very nice programs) don't have this feature. For the sake of argument I'll assume that you know all of this already, and point out that you could also use keys on the keyboard, if you so desire. I have done it before while using a Macintosh one-button mouse. > still suffreing the leftist egalitarian poison that has > raped the planet > of man potential. ( and left 200 million of its citizens in > mass graves ) Ack -- not the leftists again! > we can get along back to the accent of man. What kind of accent does man have? I hope it's not southern. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

22 years, 8 months

Calculating VUP values

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

It's amazing DEC went to such bother calculating VUPs by running a set of real benchmarks on a finely tuned system and then reporting a measure based on some weighted sum when this procedure would have saved **sooo** much effort: According to this proc, the machines I can reach right now report: VAXstation 4000-90A: 26.0 bogoVUPs (should be 32+ VUPs) VAX 4000-700A: 30.8 bogoVUPs (should be ~40 VUPs) VAX 4000-705A: 34.4 bogoVUPs (should be ~45 VUPs) Alpha 2100 4/200: 35.2 bogoVUPs Takara (EV56@500MHz): 87.2 bogoVUPs Antonio -----Original Message----- From: Brian Wheeler [mailto:bdwheele@indiana.edu] Sent: 23 April 2002 14:37 To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Calculating VUP values On Tue, 2002-04-23 at 03:21, Huw Davies wrote: > I'm sure a few days ago I saw a piece of DCL fly by in a classiccmp mail > message that was supposed to calculate the VUP rating of a VMS system. > > At the time I didn't think I'd need it so didn't archive it, of course, now > I WANT it! Basically I'd like to get the VUP rating for my simulated > VAXserver 3900 thanks to simh (http://simh.trailing-edge.com). > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)kerberos.davies.net.au > | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > | air, the sky would be painted green" I might have been the one that posted it. I snagged it from google, so I don't know how accurate it is. On my pentium 3/1.7GHz I get 4.0 vups under simh. $! CALCULATE_VUPS: $! $ set noon $ orig_privs = f$setprv("ALTPRI") $ process_priority = f$getjpi(0,"PRIB") $ cpu_multiplier = 10 ! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 40 $ cpu_round_add = 1 ! VAX = 1 - Alpha/AXP = 9 $ cpu_round_divide = cpu_round_add + 1 $ init_counter = cpu_multiplier * 525 $ init_loop_maximum = 205 $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 10$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. init_loop_maximum then goto 10$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ init_vups = ((init_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ loop_maximum = (init_vups * init_loop_maximum) / 10 $ base_counter = (init_counter * init_vups) / 10 $ vups = 0 $ times_through_loop = 0 $ 20$: $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 30$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. loop_maximum then goto 30$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ new_vups = ((base_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ if new_vups .eq. vups then goto 40$ $ vups = new_vups $ times_through_loop = times_through_loop + 1 $ if times_through_loop .le. 5 then goto 20$ $ 40$: $ new_privs = f$setprv(orig_privs) $ set message /nofacility/noidentification/noseverity/notext $ ASSIGN/SYSTEM/EXEC 'vups' MACHINE_VUPS_RATING $ set message /facility/identification/severity/text $ write sys$output "Approximate System VUPs Rating : ", - vups / 10,".", vups - ((vups / 10) * 10) $ exit Brian

22 years, 8 months

Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

> The only operating systems that I'm aware of that were made for the DEC >Alpha were VMS (or is that OpenVMS), ULTRIX, Linux and maybe a certain >version of Windows NT. There might have been another UNIX variant made >for the DEC Alpha but I'm not aware of what it could be. There was a version of DEC OSF/1 which early on ran on some of the DEC MIPS boxes, but Ultrix has only ever run on the Vax and MIPS, not Alpha. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

22 years, 8 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by dpeschel＠eskimo.com

It has been my mission for some time to bring a BBC Micro back from England. I would need some way to adapt British plugs to US sockets and convert the voltage, and I would also need a PAL monitor. (No, I don't want black-and-white NTSC. Yes, I could bring a montior back from England along with the computer. I'm not sure if I want to do that.) Does anyone have experience with these things? I am hoping to save money ($500 would be above the top of my price range) but I don't want to fry anything either. Oh yes, and if anyone has an extra Beeb hanging around that would be nice too. -- Derek

22 years, 8 months

suggestions on BBC Micro, voltage converter, PAL monitor (in US)?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 22, 12:09, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > >If the power supply is switching, they ususally rectify the line > votage > >and go from there. In which case the frequency has no bearing.. > > Never having had either a broken beeb or a broken cub > monitor, I have no idea whether they care > about the frequency or not. They don't. The frequency won't matter, only having "about" the right voltage. Actually, I once (when I worked for an Acorn distributor) came across a guy working abroad who had inadvertantly used his unmodified Beeb on a 120V supply and never noticed until he bought a monitor -- which refused to work at such a low voltage. I wouldn't suggest you try it, though; it should be easy to change the PSU setting. Many monitors may not care too much about the frequency either, but it's probably easier to get one that can be set to 110V; a CGA or Amiga monitor should work. I'd strongly suggest an RGB (TTL level) monitor rather than a PAL or other composite colour monitor, as the higher-res screen modes aren't too sharp when the colour signal is added to a composite signal. > There are (cheap) travel adapters that allow you > to plug UK appliances into various > worldwide connectors. I don't have one to > hand to check, but I do know some of them > can cope with a hairdryer - whether that's > enough to not catch light when trying > to feed an early beeb with the > varnish-stripping PSU is not > clear to me :-) Don't try it. Neither the adapter nor the Beeb's switch-mode PSU will like it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

22 years, 8 months

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test-drb April 2002