test-drb October 2002

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

261 participants
654 discussions

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I opened up my keyboard and traced out the circuits again today. I HOPE this is right, I haven't double checked it. Everything in caps is as it appears on the keyboard. Names that are too long are abbreviated and shown in lower case. A list of the abbreviations and their meanings is also shown below. pin 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 2 nu kl K1 K2 K3 K4 ^ da 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 4 Q W E R T Y U I 5 A S D F G H J K 6 sb Z X C V B N M 13 nu nu -l da -CHAR REP -> <- 12 nu RESET bs nu = - 0 9 11 nu nu nu sca ) ( P O 10 nu nu nu nu el ' ; L 9 nu nu nu RUN PAUSE ? > < Abbreviations: nu = not used da = down arrow (up and down arrow are used to recall previous commands and for editing)(I just noticed that I have this listed twice so there's probably an error there somewhere). k1 = Key Label el = End Line (this is what HP uses for carriage return/Enter) sb = space bar bs = Back Space -l = -Line (erases the entire line) sca = Scratch (erases all memory, just variables, etc depoending on what argument you give it) Notes: The K keys are programable function keys. K5 through K8 are K1 through K4 shifted. You can assign programs or functions to these keys and use the Control input lines to trigger the program or function. The -Char key erases one character at a time. the REP key toggles between the insert and replace modes. There are a few more keys that don't fit into a matrix. Here's a list of them and the two pins that they connect to: Both SHIFT keys are tied together in parallel and connct to pins 18 and 7. There is a 8 Ohm .2Watt speaker inside. It connects to pins 25 and 7. CNTL key connects to pins 23 and 7. CAPS LOCK key connects to pins 24 and 7. I'll try to photograph the keyboard and post the picture tomorrow so that you can see what the layout and key legends and shifted legends are.

22 years, 2 months

Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors

by glenslick＠hotmail.com

The HP 10269B/C General Purpose Probe Interface is just a physical interconnect between the pods and various probes. The B version is for the old style HP 1630 pods. The C version is for the HP 1650 all the way through current style pods. I think the 10342B just buffers the HP-IB signals and I think you could use the config and IA files just without the probe. For the RS-232/449 signals it uses a dual UART (I forget which one) plus the Z-80. I assume the Z-80 is there just to configure the UART. Some day I'll dump the eprom on the probe just to see what it actually does. I have a manual and the config and IA files for the 10342B. If there isn't a scanned copy of the manual on the web I should send a copy of the manual to someone who can scan the manual and make it available on the web. I also have a 10314B 80386 proble which mates with a 10269B/C and it has a bunch of active electronics. I don't have config or IA files for it. Does anyone else? Not that I have a real need for it nor do I have any 80386 systems (at least not at the moment.) The HP 10277 might just be a physical interconnect to your own custom interfaces, if I correctly remember what that thing is. -Glen >From: Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> >Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic >microprocessors >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:26:25 > > I dug around this morning and found two logic analyzer pods/CPU >adapters. These are boxs that you plug the pod of the logic analyzer pods >directly into and they usually have a cable that plugs into the CPU socket >of the UUT. When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and >grabbers. > > One is the HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor in the HP 10269B General Purpose >Probe Interface. This is for the HP 1630 and 1631 series LAs. This >particular preprocessor is used for monitoring RS-449, RS-232 or HP-IB >busses and acquiring data directly from the bus. You can replace the Bus >Preprocessor with various CPU adapters. I opened both of these up and the >10269 doesn't have any parts in it other than cables, PC boards and various >connectors. However the Bus Preprocessor is full of ICs, including a Z-80 >CPU. > > The other logic analyzer pods/CPU adapter is a HP 10277 and is for the >HP 1610 sereis LAs. It's a single unit and it doesn't have any active parts >in it. However it has connectors for ribbon cables to connect the the test >bewing tested and I don't have the cables so it's POSSIBLE that there may >be some active parts in the cable or something attached to the other end of >it. > > Joe _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

22 years, 2 months

Logic Analyzer pods Re: HP LA Inverse Assemblers for classic microprocessors

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

> >At 08:20 PM 10/13/02 -0400, you wrote: >>> Typically I think they came with the matching probe >>> fixtures, but you only have to know what bits to hook for the status word >>in >>> order to use them with the standard probes. >> >>I found some informatyion on the probes tucked into the back of the 16510A >>documentation, >>and this statement may not be correct. It's possible that the probes may >>decode some >>states in hardware, and that the IAs may depend on this decoding. But it's >>not 100% >>clear in the documentation. >> > > I checked the description in the HP catalog and it implies the same thing but it's not clear about it. I've run across a few pods, I should grab one and open it up and see it there's anything inside. Another thing to add to the "To Do" list! > > Joe I dug around this morning and found two logic analyzer pods/CPU adapters. These are boxs that you plug the pod of the logic analyzer pods directly into and they usually have a cable that plugs into the CPU socket of the UUT. When using these you don't use the flying wire leads and grabbers. One is the HP 10342B Bus Preprocessor in the HP 10269B General Purpose Probe Interface. This is for the HP 1630 and 1631 series LAs. This particular preprocessor is used for monitoring RS-449, RS-232 or HP-IB busses and acquiring data directly from the bus. You can replace the Bus Preprocessor with various CPU adapters. I opened both of these up and the 10269 doesn't have any parts in it other than cables, PC boards and various connectors. However the Bus Preprocessor is full of ICs, including a Z-80 CPU. The other logic analyzer pods/CPU adapter is a HP 10277 and is for the HP 1610 sereis LAs. It's a single unit and it doesn't have any active parts in it. However it has connectors for ribbon cables to connect the the test bewing tested and I don't have the cables so it's POSSIBLE that there may be some active parts in the cable or something attached to the other end of it. Joe

22 years, 2 months

Vintage Scopes

by carlos_murillo＠epm.net.co

At 06:42 PM 10/13/02 -0500, you wrote: >I know for a fact Tektronix no longer supports the 2213 60MHz analog >scopes. -snip- > but when I called >them, GTE would not sell me any parts. They wanted me to send in my >scopes, charge me an extremely high troubleshooting fee, charge me more >for whatever they thought needed to be replaced/repaired, and then charge >me yet again for return shipping. Argh, my main scope is a Tek 2213... though I still use my hp1980 sometimes. >I've since located a source for the special P6120 probes, and am now in >the process of buying them. I have not yet located the Service/Operators >manual(s). I have a photocopy of the operator's manual. At some point I was also looking for the service manual and I found a message in the archives of some high-frequency hobbyist mailing list (which I can't find now, but I have a hard copy). They referred the person who was asking about this to Deane Kidd, W7TYR, ex-TeK employee, and who runs a business supplying manuals for older TeK scopes. The contact info: Deane Kidd, 27270 S.W. Ladd Hill Rd., Sherwood, OR 97140, (503) 625-7363 . carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

22 years, 2 months

TMS3417 (was My First S-100 System)

by glenslick＠hotmail.com

If you want a TMS3417 bad enough any of the parts brokers (e.g. http://www.aecsales.com) should be able to get you some. Usually these places have something like $100 minimum orders. I don't know where you would get a single piece cheap. >From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: My First S-100 System >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 08:55:33 -0700 (PDT) > > >--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > Speaking of Cromemco cards, and only using "standard chips", does anyone > > have a source for the TMS3417, used on the Cromemco Dazzler? Google >only > > turns up a single mention of it, on a German page. "Standard chips" > > aren't necessarily all that easy to find. (But much easier to find than > > gate arrays and other ASICs.) > >Is that some sort of video chip (like a 6845) or a character generator? > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More >http://faith.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

22 years, 2 months

My First S-100 System

by SecretaryBird＠SoftHome.net

Hi all! I just discovered this mailing list a couple nights back. Now I have a place to share my cool classic comp acquisitions. :) Anyway, last weekend, when I reported to my squadron for our monthly drill, I was informed that one of our officers had brought in a whole bunch of old computer stuff that I might be interested in (he's moving across country and isn't able to pack it with him.) I had a great time sifting through the massive amount of classics that were stacked at the back of the dining hall, and deciding what I should claim. Since our little apartment here is short on storage space at the moment, I just selected a Cromemco System Two and a Cromemco System Three, as well as a box of various S-100 cards, manuals, and disks (including a complete set of Cromix-Plus and Unix System V floppies.) Had I realized that the thing that looked like a jerry can, which I thought was most likely a power supply of some sort was actually a Cromemco hard drive, I would have taken it along with the Cromemco System One that was sitting in front of it as well. Oh well, live and learn. :/ So the next day, after final roll call, I load up the stuff in the truck of the guy who gave me a ride home, and me and my roommate that afternoon start looking over everything. We were disappointed that the System Three was totally stripped of all cards (though it does have a pair of 8 inch floppy drives). The System Two on the other hand, was a different story. Not only does it have a pair of floppies, but it also has a 21MB hard drive, 3 256K RAM cards, and a couple other cards I can't remember at the moment. Since we are in need of some cash at the moment, we went ahead and put some of the excess stuff (spare manuals, extra cards, and the Fortran 77 and 68000 C packages up for auction. We might also sell off one of the 256K cards that's in the System Two as well. But that isn't the point of this post (not wanting to turn this into a FA posting, y'know). We are looking forward to one day having the room to set up the System Two and actually making her a part of our little home LAN. I'm predicting that this is going to be a long term project, much like restoring a classic car. I suppose the most important thing I need to get for her is some sort of terminal/control console. Fortunately, dumb terminals show up at the thrift stores around here every so often, as well as other interesting bits of old computer parts (I have an IBM 3274 Terminal Controller set up as a TV stand in my room. For only $10, it is a much cooler piece than the usual bits of overpriced furniture Goodwill normally gets...) I'm also wondering if this little honey could be used as a console for the Cromemco system... http://www.oz.net/~otter/gallery/Geek-Console.JPG Sorry. Can't remember what model number it is at the moment. It is way too heavy for me to move by myself so I can see the label on the back. :p As for the System Three; we haven't decided what to do with it yet. It doesn't have enough stuff with it to make it worth the hassles of auctioning (plus, without having an operational car at the moment, shipping would be an enormous logistical challenge.) If someone can come pick it up (Kitsap County, WA), I would be open to some sort of reasonable buy or preferably trade offer; especially if I could trade it for a Commodore PET (been wanting one of those ever since I saw one back in the old days on an episode of Buck Rogers, and later in the background in Kirk's apartment in Star Trek II: http://www.oz.net/~otter/images/scr-st2-1.JPG Anyway, enough incoherent babbling from me for now. Time for me to catch a bit of sleep. Later! -- Scarletdown P.S. If anyone is interested, I can send off an email to someone at my squadron Monday Morning to find out where that Cromemco System One was donated to.

22 years, 2 months

Osbourne 1 problems

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

I recently accquired an Osbourne 1 computer. I turned it on and it seemed to work, I was able to boot BASIC off of a floppy and I wrote a couple little programs, (print hello world, count to ten, and count forever, stuff like that). The picture on the screen was kinda dark in spots, and while the computer was counting, it flickered to a very dark and barely readable, then it went black all together. I tried turning up the brightness and contrast controls, the only one that makes any change on the screen is the brightness control. I can see the rasters when the brightness is up all the way, but the contrast control has no effect. The computer seems to still work though, I can turn it on, then hit enter and it will boot from the floppy. Previously, when it was working, I noticed the screen flicker when the computer accessed the floppy drive. My guess is that there is something wrong with the power supply. Does anyone have any ideas? I would really like to get my Osbourne working again, it's a really cool little computer. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus(a)yahoo.com

22 years, 2 months

Corn Puffs box misinformation

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Dear Topco, I've created a web page to publicize and discuss the horrible misinterpretation of the facts of the history of computing as delivered to thousands of kids on your recent box of Corn Puffs. You can see it at: http://www.threedee.com/jcm/cereal/ I'd like to talk to the person who wrote and designed this box. I'd like to offer to serve as a consultant to help you design more accurate and more entertaining cereal boxes than this. Sincerely, John Foust (920) 674-5200 www.threedee.com/jcm

22 years, 2 months

Floppies

by cb＠mythtech.net

>Anyone know if 3.5" DSDD (not HD) floppies are still manufactured ? mei-micro sold them at least recently. Although you had to buy them in lots of 500. Don't know if they are new off the line, or just ancient stock sitting in a warehouse. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

22 years, 2 months

Altair

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Walter Peterson" <walterp(a)cyberstreet.com> > >The A11 light dosn't function due tyo a blown 7405 chip in the front panel. I have had to replace several of these myself on my altair and on my IMSAI. 7406 seems to make a better replacement as it can take higher voltages > > > Hi I've notice these as being a common failure item, as well. I don't think it is the voltage that is killing them. It is more likely a timing overlap issue with other parts driving the bus and stressing these parts. One might consider adding some resistors in series ( small value ) to limit the current when a tristate drive also drives the bus at the same time as the '05 is active ( driving low ). I would suspect that something in the order of 15 ohms would be enough to protect the '05's and still drive a solid '0' onto the bus lines. There is no reason that any voltage issue should cause problems with these parts. Later Dwight

22 years, 2 months

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test-drb October 2002