test-drb December 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

243 participants
1096 discussions

What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 6, 16:33, SP wrote: ^^^^^^ Someone needs to set their clock... it was Dec 22, actually > One Dilog DQ614 driver disk for RT-11. I have > one of these boards inoperative because I can't > configure it. Was it Zane or Ethan who was also looking for this? Well, it's a bit late, but I have an extra Christmas present for you guys. You'll find the diagnostic and formatter program, along with a diagram of the board, and the jumper tables, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DQ614/ It would have been done on Christmas Eve, but my RX02 drives needed a severe talking to, along with the 11/23 they are on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

22 years, 7 months

Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software

by r.stek＠snet.net

I may be jumping in late since I missed the original request (I get the digest version and don't always read them each day) but I have dBASE 5.5 with the compiler if that would help. Or do you need version 5 specifically? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

22 years, 7 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >TXCO's come from the factory with special caps you place over them while >they go through the soldering oven (modern boards don't get wave soldered anymore). Older ones were effectively sealed units with a removable screw opening that was sealed with an O-ring. Those stand dishwaser just fine. Of course many computers never have anything like a TCXO on them. >Failing to place these protective caps over the TXCO's when they go through the >wash cycle leads to a drifting oscillator that very often fails soon after its in >the field. This is to be expected with any sealed part or temperature sensitive part. Then again a reflow oven is far hotter than a dishwasher. >As the focus of the list is older machines, we need to keep things in mild like >paper roll caps, etc. Advising that running old boards through the dishwasher, >while sometimes safe, is not an absolutely safe thing to do. Actually caps like that are likely to have failed from age by now. Systems that used them are likely quite old and not of the easily dishwashed contruction for mechanical reasons other than components used. >I do agree that most often, semi-modern boards will survive the process, but there >are many components that will not. These components used to be much more common >than they are today. But as the discussion relates to this older technology, any >reccomendation to run the boards through a dishwasher should address the very real >risks. Modern as in PDP-8/11/ and vax series, flip chip and similar are certainly cleanable this way and likely were in the factory back then too. Older modular constuction of a more hand wired era may be not suitable. Then again most of the DEC wirewrapped backplanes would likely survive a dishwash but, it may be ill advised as they are mechanically fragile as those that have worked with them know. >How hot was the water? I don't know, its not something I can easily control. Is >is possible that the 'dishwashers' used for this function commercially have been >altered, and/or are connected to a lower temprature source of water? I do know >that dishes come out a bit too hot to handel unless you open the door and allow >them to cool. Generally domestic hotwater never exceeds 160f due to scalding risks for the users. Some dishwasers have reheaters to compensate for low domestic water temps but they still only shoot for 160ish (F) max, and often that can be turned off by using the economy cycle. The bake dry cycle should be avoided if there is one (or too warm). One thing we ar not talking about is temps near boiling (212f) or water that hot. >I do know its a heck of a lot hotter than any bath, after all, there is a heater >element inside the dishwasher. Usually for dry cycle, sometimes powered to compensate for low domestic water temps. Econco cyle turns if off more often than no. bath water is maybe 105-115f (Very hot!) FYI. People are susceptable to harm with water over 130f. >I'm not sure its a temprature issue, as some have assumed. A dishwasher may have >very powerful waterjets and a lot of vibration. The dammage may be mechanical, >possibly a bonding wire detachment. No, internal bonds for the parts can take that shock and likely 10X that all day. External bonds??? We are talking soldered boards not wire wrap or really old MIL spotwelded. >But I'd like to point out once again that there are a good number of components >that will be dammaged by water. Some of these have been listed in posts here >already. If we accept that some components cannot be washed in this way, how can >anyone defend a blanket statement that using a dishwasher on a board will be safe >for that board? Most of the components are of the "open" contruction and not suitable or the problem of assuring they will dry needs addressing. The average printed circuit construction used in computers often does not contain them or they are designed to allow for that kind of cleaning. Parts I worry about and see: Pots (variable resistors of enclosed design) small relays of non hermetic design DIP switches (may need replacing anyway) Power upplies in general, (other than potted units). >All those tiny little pulse transfromers on your core memory sense amplifiers, do >you know those are able to withstand this treatment? Many are not fully >encapsulated, and would not be safe to treat this way. Some components (like >crystals, not oscillators, just quartz crystals) cannot even be soldered safely, >and are socketed for this reason. Is it s good idea to run these through your >dishwasher? Soldering is high stress compared to 160f water. Also of they are socketed then by all means unplug them first then was the board. Most quartz crystals however are hermetic and can withstand significant amounts of heat. Again oen design parts have to be evaluated, most tolerate wetting well if properly dried before use. A core memory sense board fo the PDP-8e/f/m design and era tolerate this very well, then again they are of modern design. I have done it to several with at least one comming out working where it didnt' before! Cleaning prior to troubleshoot was to make life easier in that case but instead removed whatever debrie causing the inital problem. Something from the PB250 era would be more suspect, mostly due to a multitude of other reasons. I've done it as well to the PDP-8/f front pannel (rotary switch and many lamp sockets) with excellent results. It's still working well over two+ years later. >If your sure no components will be effected, go ahead and try your dishwasher. If >your not absolutely sure, or if replacement parts are hard to get, don't take the >risk, and use a little IPA and some elbow grease to clean your boards. That first half is fair advice, be sure first. The second half is faulty however as there are just as many parts that will not tolerate IPA for extended times or the residue that may be left behind if not adaquately rinsed. It's fair to use caution but, to be a nelly maid over it is usually not warrented. Allison

22 years, 7 months

Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

For those who don't believe that it's okay - prove it to yourself. Here's how: 1) Pick a dirty, filthy board that somehow seems to work, and is worth very little to you 2) Make sure it doesn't have: a) relays b) large capacitors c) transformers d) iron-core inductors e) fragile labels or core memory 3) put it in your dishwasher by itself, with no detergent (just for testing), and turn off the plate warmer and dryer 4) wash it! 5) shake off excess water after cycle finishes 6) clean - isn't it? 6) hang up to dry indoors for several days 7) plug it in. Works, doesn't it?!! And clean, too !!!!! Don't take our words for it. Try it!!!! You'll be amazed at how clean the boards get, with so little effort on your part. - Matt At 11:22 AM 12/28/2001 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Never run boards through a dishwasher! > >Oh no, not this thread again :) Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

22 years, 7 months

Housecleaning-updated

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Here's an update on my annual housecleaning. I've found a few more items which I've added to the list and I'm marking those which have been spoken for already. - AIM stuff - there are about 2-3 partial boards, 2 keyboards, 2 bases and 4 tops still available. - Books: * A Programmer's Viwe of the Intel 432 System (Organick) - still available * Inside Commodore DOS (Immers) - spoken for * MicroC/OS-II RTOS book with disk (Labrosse) - spoken for * Microcomputer Experimentation with the Motorola MEK6800D2 (Leventhal) - available * Motorola Microprocessor Software Catalog (1984) - available - Magazines: * Spare BYTE magazines: 1/82, 3/82, 4/82, 10/85 (2), 10/86, 11/86, 9/87. Condition is very good on some to fair on one. - Software: * MicroSolutions UniForm for the Epson QX-10 If anyone is interested in any of these remaining items, contact me off-list. I would prefer trades for these items. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

22 years, 7 months

SCO Open Desktop (was Re: Interesting find today!)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> wrote: > I found a box of SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0. I don't know anything about At Wollongong, we had this installed on a ca. 1991 Compaq, something like a 386/20, with a monochrome VGA display. And yes, it did get most of its bits from the tape; we had an Everex QIC drive of some sort attached. I remember going through some grief to get it configured (more preceisely, re-configured after some biscuit of a QA engineer installed TWG's TCP/IP then decided he needed SCO's TCP/IP, which of course forced re-installation of the whole thing), but it was long enough ago to be on topic here and I no longer remember the details, except that I wrote them down and taped the paper to the tape drive which is long gone. Open Desktop is a SCO/Motif flavored X GUI. If you really want to use the GUI stuff, give it more oomph than Wollongong did: it was painfully slow on that Compaq. Along about 1995 the system was being used more for testing a "SCO ANSI" terminal emulation and I worked out how to make it not start X on boot, and it continued running that way (off in a corner with almost no attention) until April 1999 when Attachmate shut down the former Wollongong offices. -Frank McConnell

22 years, 7 months

DQ614: was Re: What did you ask "Santa" ...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 14:30, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Amazing! Now the question is, does anyone know which HD's will work with > this? I just might have to go digging through storage in the very near > future! The manual had a "non-exclusive" list of drives known to work; it suggested that just about anything should be OK. The formatter lets you set things like step pulse rate/seek time, heads, cylinders, etc. > The other question is, once the disk is formated, does it matter what you > use for an OS on it, or does it need to be RT-11? I was hoping to be able > to use this board for OS's that expect RL02's instead of MSCP disks. As far as I know, once the drive is formatted, it uses the standard driver. Assuming the formatting stores the setup details on the drive, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to use another OS afterwards. I no longer have my DQ614, so I can't test it for you :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

22 years, 7 months

What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 20:30, SP wrote: > I can't believe it. > > This success suppose to me to change some of my > thinkings about the life, the religion and other matters. > By example: Santa Claus exists ? Etcetera. > > But, by the moment, in case this driver works, I can put > you in my list of fortunate with one bottle of Red Wine > from Spain, variety Rioja. I hope it works -- I like Rioja! Seriously, let me know how you get on with it. Make sure the files you download are the right size. DQ614P.SAV should be exactly 27648 bytes and DL.SAV (which is the driver for RT-11 V5.04 *only*) should be exactly 2048 bytes. If they come out differently, either use Netscape on a Unix box to download, or ask me to put copies somewhere else for FTP. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

22 years, 7 months

[rescue] Indigo sans front cover

by vance＠ikickass.org

Speaking of doors to SGI's, I am in need of a front door to a deskside Onyx. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bruce Pullig wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:42:53 -0600 > From: Bruce Pullig <bruce(a)pullig.com> > Reply-To: rescue(a)sunhelp.org > To: SunRescue <rescue(a)sunhelp.org> > Subject: Re: [rescue] Indigo sans front cover > > I found my Indigo front door. (has XS24 on the front) If you want it, let > me know where to ship it. > > Bruce > > -- > Bruce, Lorelei & Nathaniel Pullig > bruce(a)pullig.com > lorelei(a)pullig.com > nathaniel(a)pullig.com > www.pullig.com, www.pullig.org > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue(a)sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue >

22 years, 7 months

*DUH* Unibus KZQSA - try QBUS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Told you I was "DEC Challenged".... KZQSA is Q-BUS, not Unibus.... (sigh) - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

22 years, 7 months

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test-drb December 2001