The local N* users must have figured that out eventually. One of them got
together with the guy who owned the Champion software outfit and started a
users group for the "superbrain" computer which was a complete system
packaged in what looked like a desktop terminal. I know that at least this
one guy still had his N* after that.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine?
>> >From what I remember, the Northstar was probably the most widely hated
>> "system" around in these parts. There was a local company which produced
an
>> apparently quite nice accounting package (Champion???) which wouldn't run
on
>> their most popular model, the "Horizon" because it had an 8K ROM which
>> reduced their TPA under CP/M to the point where this package wouldn't run
>> properly.
>
>NS* system wasn't the problem it was the MPS-A floppy system, It looked
>like 20 of ram/rom at 0E800h through 0EFFFh, It was memory mapped. There
>was only 256 bytes of actual rom. This generally meant for CPM users that
>the upper 4k of ram was unused.
>
>The fix was simple, CCP and BDOS ending 256bytes belove the controller
>and tweek the jump table for 0F000h. Then you put the BIOS above the
>FDC in ram. Works well and you end up with a 56-58k system.
>
>> The CompuPro combinations fit in the same category, i.e. the ones who
loved
>> 'em loved 'em, and the rest of us didn't. The owner of that company had
the
>> practice of having his people design circuits whith whatever he'd bought
for
>> cheap this week, and that meant that sometimes they were good, and
sometimes
>> they weren't. His boards often suffered from compatibility problems,
even
>> with other boards of his own manufacture. It was, to be sure, spotty.
>
>Stating that is nice but I have about 25-30 of those boards (all the
>interfacer models, RAM16/17/20/21/22/23, DISK1A, DISK3, system support,
>8/16 cpu, CPU-Z, MPX-1, Mdrive, two crates) NONE support your view. This
>may not be true for older boards (I'll bet the early ones were poor).
>
>I know they were considered reliable as they were pulled from 10 s100
>crates that were used here before PCs replaced them. They ran CHAMPION,
>DBASE, BTRIVE and a few other familiar names using Concurrent-dos on the
>8/16 cards.
>
>> S-100 systems, in general, can't be viewed in the same way as, say, a
>> single-board machine, because there is too much potential variation in
its
>> configuration to define it in a specific way. Some manufacturers sold
board
>> sets, about which they were willing to make certain claims about
>> performance, etc, but most of them just wanted to ship their boards and
let
>> the headaches fall where they may.
>
>They clearly werent PLUG and PLAY. Then again it was an industry wide
>issue. The only way out was a one vendor box or do you own system
>integration <at your own risk>.
>
>
>> Computer stores, notably ComputerLand, quite popular in the late
'70's-early
>> '80's, tended to sell board sets from Cromemco, Vector, and occasionally
>> NorthStar because the mfg would stand behind the sets they pushed. The
>> Cromemco board sets were often displayed in a desk-enclosure with
integral
>> (vertically mounted) Persci (very fast, voice-coil-driven) floppy drives,
>> into which it was very easy to drop a paper clip or something.
Businesses
>> tended to buy these because they were sold under a single aegis as
opposed
>> to letting someone "integrate" a system for them. The theory was that
there
>> was less risk that way.
>
>Certainly true to my experience on the east coast, the real problem was
>the inductry was so volitile that Fly-by-night computer was often common.
>and getting support for those older combines was at best iffy. From 1975
>through 1980 most every vendor we knew as the "originators" of the
>industry either went under or changed names/product multiple times trying
>to adapt to the changes that were going on. From 1980 on it only got
>worse!
>
>However, this is not a CPM problem.
>
>Allison
>
>
<ROTFLOL> Hey, I think we're on to something here!
Perhaps this new strategy should be includedin the Collectors Guide
book.....
In addition, I think one could choose where to place the dumpster
strategicly, like right next to a company I know that has a decked out
PDP-11/40 system in storage that I can't get them to let go of... :)
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: AS400 saved from dumpster (apparently)
>>
>> This suggests perhaps a hunting theory;
>>
>> Put out a big dumpster that says "COMPUTER EQUIPMENT ONLY"
>> and set up a small blind perhaps 45' away ( you don't want
>> to scare the prey ) then have it manned round the clock by
>> collector/volunteers watching. As soon as a truck pulls up
>> you swoop down and rescue the gear. You might need some
>> decoys so maybe a keyboard and an old terminal in a box
>> next to the dumpster would help.
>>
>> --Chuck
>
>*laugh* Might want to put a fairly thick cushion of foam rubber inside it,
>in case the quarrey is fast enough to get the machine into the dumpster
before
>being pounced. (and to save cash, since once it's in your dumpster it's
yours.
>:)
>
>--
>Jim Strickland
>jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> BeOS Powered!
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
well, it's not really a classic to my way of thinking but.....
I was sitting in my office 1/2 hour ago, and out the window I saw a truck
pull up to the dumpster in the parking lot. The guy started to pull out a
very nice clean decomissioned hours ago AS400. He was headed to the dumpster
with it. I have no interest in IBM stuff whatsoever, but decided to walk
down for a looksee.
When I got downstairs, someone in another office downstairs had seen the
same thing and was already handing the guy cash for the system.
I found it amusing.....
Jay West
Jason Olson <jolson(a)lsc.mnscu.edu>
Jason has a 5362 he'd like to get running, but no SSP for it. I can't help him
at the moment as my 5363 is in pieces and I'm too busy to put it back together
right now.
--
David Wollmann
DST / DST Data Conversion
http://www.ibmhelp.com/
I had one fellow describe to me how he rigged his pen in the 7475 so he
could draw his PCB layouts directly on the copper. That certainly wouldn't
work with my inkjet printer!
I know at least one guy who plots resist directly on his copper using a CD
printer.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: HP plotters
>> >7550 takes up too much table space. I guess I'm keeping my eyes open
for
>> >an 7470 or 7475 with RS-232 interface.
>
>I have a 7475/serial, they are nice to have/use. No, it's not for sale
>as it is useful!
>
>Allison
>
>
Tom said:
> I now have need for some basic information on the possibility of
> non-binary computers, but am unable to find anything. Can anybody point
> me in the direction of some info?
> Thanks.
> Tom Owad
Tom, just search the Web for the phrase "analog computer". :)
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
> My favourite was the old Xerox 820-II, with the high keyboard and 8inch
> drives. It runs Dbase and WordStar with great dignity.
Since we're voting, I want to put a vote in for the PMC-101
"MicroMate".
The MicroMate is a 128K CP/M computer that is the size of one TRS-80
floppy disk drive, so it fits anywhere. You can add 3 additional
external
drives. And it comes with a utility that allows you to configure any of
the drives as any of (about) 5 different CP/M formats, so you can copy
and translate the format of CP/M disks in one operation. It has built-in
"TERMINAL" and "MODEM" serial ports. And (I don't have it in front of
me)
I believe it also has a built-in parallel printer port.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
No Doubt about it, you need a Kaypro.
They came with just about all the software you would need to run a small
office, Wordstar, DataStar, DB2, Basic and the list went on.
They were very reliable. I used mine right up until 1991. The Kaypro 2X I
had bought in 1984 ran WordStar faster than the IBM Xt's.
As they were the portables of the day, it will take up less space than some
of the other CP/M machines of the time period.
My two cents.
Jim
"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and
explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
( Robert X. Cringely, "InfoWorld" )
Doug Spence said:
> >The 5 1/4" disks were used on, among others, the Vector Graphic
> >S-100 computers.
>
> OK, so at least the media wasn't specially produced for AES. :)
>
A few years ago I picked up a large quantity of 16 sector disks
and I was begining to think that I would never find a machine
that needed them.
Then I found this FDS-100 Minifile made by G.U.C. Products.
This is a micro based floppy subsystem with a single drive,
keypad and RS-232 interface (it was also available with 488,
8 bit parallel, or PDP-11 interface) You just open a blank
file with the keypad, then dump data to the FDS-100 through
the serial port and then close the file with the keypad. And
loading afile is just that easy too.
Anyway, mine is double sided, uses a Shugard 450 drive, and
stores 178,560 bytes net on 16 sector disks.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
Anyone got any ideas for this guy? Please reply directly to him, as he's not subscribed to the list. Thanks. -- MB
--- Forwarded Message from Dave <dam4(a)axe.humboldt.edu> ---
I have a question. I have been looking for a Lisa for quite some time
and I finally found one (Lisa 2 or XL, not quite sure). I brought it
home and excitedly plugged it in and ... nothing. No spinning of drives
no monitor activity just a small, short hiss that comes from the power
supply every time I hit the soft switch. According to sun's pdf repair
guide this is perhaps a problem with the power supply (mine is the 1.8
model). Could you perhaps suggest to me (or refer me to source that
could) how to check my power supply, or if this is even the right course
of action. Have been diddling with this for three days now and have no
ideas.
I did however take a volt meter to the power supply and noted that while
I have black on body of the power supply I only get one five volt
reading and nothing else. That comes from the third tooth up and only
on one side.
Any help would really make my day and with luck I could join the likes
of you folks.
Thanks a lot
Dave
