I certainly have the same mindset that PC's aren't worthy of being "classic"
in the sense that a PDP-8 or HP2108A is.... at first blush....
But thinking about it more, it would seem to me that like quantum mechanics,
it depends on the time and act of the observation. Specifically, we might
not be so quick to dismiss the PC architecture if we were currently in the
year 2100 (that was just a random choice of year, nothing to do with HP's
<grin>).
To provide a counterpoint to that, there were so many PCs and PC clones,
that collecting them would be more tantamount to collecting matchbox cars
than collecting real cars (which I liken to collecting mini's). They're much
easier to comeby right now, so one would collect for color and variety for
example rather than each item depicting a phase of computing history. While
I understand and agree with others idea that PC's are "not as historically
significant except as a whole", I think it is - no less - a valid item to
collect.
BTW - I'm referring to PC architecture machines, not S100, or even PET type
machines.
Just my .00002 cents worth.
Cheers!
Jay West
SMS was the maker of a number of 8X300-based FDC's. These were about 10x12"
things with loads of TTL, normally bounted in a 17x18x15" (wxlxh) cast
aluminum-framed case with a clipped-on aluminum shell, often painted
off-white or beige, in which there were two 8" drives. The boards had
numbers like FDC300 or FT400, and were interfaced via a req/ack handshake
and 8-bit data on a 50-conductor cable. The models (300 & 400) with which
I'm familiar, were single-sided, but the FDC of the 400 supported
double-density. The interface protococ was at the sector or track level,
i.e. it was simple and based on commands like "read the next sector" or
format the next track, with much less fiddling than with the WD or NEC
FDC's. Their HDC's worked more or less like the bridge controllers from
other vendors.
SMS was the original developer of the 8X300 microcontroller, produced for
them by Signetics. They later produced FDC's and HDC's under the name OMTI.
I may still have doc's for the ones I had, though I remember at least one of
the manuals got a mite wet some time back.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:21 AM
Subject: Scientific Micro Systems
>In my scrap yard looking I came across a batch of circuit boards near some
>old 8" floppy drives (Shugart, Qume, etc. and all bad I think, or
>troublesome) and I am wondering if they mean anything to anybody. They are
>large, maybe 11x17 or more, and the name on them is Scientific Micro
>Systems. The only connector I remember is a about a 4" wide edge connector
>on one end of the board in the middle.
>
>
I can understand why people go ahead and "toss" things as opposed to going
to the trouble to pack and ship them.
Whereas I seldom object to giving someone who will use it an item in my
storage heap, I have had qualms, at times, about people who wanted
"everything" when I knew up front that it would just go from my dead storage
area to theirs. I never worried so much about what happened to the puppies
I sold. I guess I figured that people willing to pay for something would
care for it and put it to use. What a silly notion!
When I made public what I had here, I got lots of requests for essentially
"all the good stuff" if there is such a designation, and at the end of the
day, so to speak, only one fellow sent funds to cover shipping. I sent him
the two boards he requested, and, as far as I'm concerned, he still has
credit with me for another USPS priority mail shipment of <2 lbs. Of course
shipping boards or diskettes/manuals is pretty easy when compared with
shipping a 20" high by 30" deep metal box . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com <Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Tossing
>
>
>>> Anyway, Macs are prety neat to stack (especialy the classic ones),
>>> and should form a neat wall (maybe for seperation between dining
>>> room and kitchen ?) or can be used as base for a desk etc.
>>>
>>> (I just havn't enough to proove it)
>>
>> I've tested this hypothesis in the lab and have concluded that they do
not
>> stack well. They are angled slightly at the top. With enough Macs you
>> could build a suspension bridge, but I wouldn't drive a car over it.
>
>
>Suspension bridge? I take it you mean an arch bridge...
>
>The way to build a wall is to stack them not all the same way round. The
most
>stable method is probably LRRLLRRLL..., but LRLRLR would probably work (L
and R
>meaning Macs facing Left and Right respectively)
>
>Philip.
>
>
>
>
>
At 12:51 AM 5/18/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, 17 May 1999, James Willing wrote:
>
>> >> work where it would fail before. The clicking sound it makes is
>> >> pretty loud and annoying and I'm sure a LLF won't help that. Does
>>
>> It's quite possible that the problem may be little more than bit-rot due to
>> the degredation of the magnetic domains on the drive platters. (or it
>> really could be busted, but let's think good thots here) Also, power
>> failures during writes could honk up the drive real easily...
>
>Naw, he says its clicking. I think its internal mechanical failure.
...or dust in the track 0 optical sensor... (externally mounted, easy to
get to)
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
At 01:16 AM 5/18/99 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote:
>He's trying.
For me, one of the most delightful parts of running a small software
business was reading the unsolicited letters. I kept a file folder
of them. One of my favorites was from another East Bloc country that
started out in clear English, slowly began to struggle, and then
finally gave up and switched to their mother tongue.
For a while, every few weeks we'd get a letter from Mosul, Iraq,
each more creative than the last. Some were written in crayon, some
pencil, some on paper with inch-tall lines, some block-printed with
a rubber-stamp kit. Eventually, I guessed it was a young kid who'd
regularly raid his dad's supply of stamps and envelopes.
- John
>>>It means that the "dealer" has an item X in their inventory, they see that
>>someone else on Ebay is selling an equivalent X. The dealer follows the
>>auction to completion, when complete, the dealer sends email to the second
>>highest bidder and asks if they would like to purchase the item from them
>>for the price they offered the seller.
>>
>>This is a scam? Give it a break guys. If I bid on something and am not the
>>high bidder I would like a chance to buy. If you don't then don't reply.
>>Sometimes you can get in a bidding war and end up pay many times the value
>>of an item, I.E. Imsai or Altec on Ebay, Is it really that different than
>>making an offer here to someone who has something you want? So who looses if
>>a seller contacts you and you agree on a fair price? Ebay? Time to face the
>>facts Ebay, Yahoo, etc., etc. auctions are going to stay a while.
>
> The above was an explanation of the legitimate practice. The abuse is where
> a third party pretends to be the seller, contacts the second etc. bidders
> and requests payment be sent to a blind PO Box, then skips with the funds
> never sending any goods.
>
> BTW I just sent an inquiry to eBay to see if this is rumor, hoax, or fact.
Oh. I got the impression that it was the highest bidder doing this, i.e.
outbidding the legitimate bidders; then selling his stuff to the failed bidders;
and only then backing down on the original sale. Very nasty, because the
original vendor can't sell to the failed bidders until he has definitely heard
that the winner is backing down...
At a genuine auction in the UK, the auctioneer has the legal power to sign a
contract of purchase on behalf of either party. So backing down is very, very
difficult. But this sort of safeguard has yet to reach Ebay, I suppose.
Philip.
>> Geez! And my wife complains about my two Altairs and the Tektronix 4051
>> sitting in the living room!!
>>
>> Joe
>
> Very well, since you're twisting my arm Joe... I'll take the two Altairs
> off your hands.. You'll have to find someone else to take the Tektronix
> (I think I have one of those, minus the monitor, that i'm using as
> a TV stand. I used to use it for a computer desk.. Nice adjustable
> keyboard tray, now i put my VCR on that tray..)
I think you may have lost your 4051! It was a self contained unit with
keyboard, monitor, processor all in one box. If you're using it as a TV stand
you may have lost the 4051 and just kept the pedestal...
(Seriously, I think you're confusing it with a more modern piece of Tek kit)
Philip.
>> Proposal for copying really OLD documents (I get a royalty if someone
>> does this and it works!)
>>
>> 1) Develop a machine that performs a CAT scan of the document
>> without opening it at very high resolution.
>>
>> 2) process the high resolution 3D images captured to determine
>> the ink patterns on each page.
>>
>> 3) OCR the individual pages to recreate the original text
>>
>> Simple, Right?
>>
>> clint
>
> Hi
> Most documents can be opened to about 90 degrees. What does
> them in is flattening them on a copier. One could build a
> lens assembly that would go on top of the copier that would
> allow one to place the original on top with only a 90 degree
> bend. The size of the optics is the main issue here.
I saw a photocopier demonstrated on TV well over 10 years ago which copied books
without opening them more than about 80 degrees. I seem to recall it was the
British Library who were sponsoring the development, but I may be confusing this
with something else.
Philip.
--- Lawrence Walker <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> wrote:
> On 17 May 99 at 17:10, Chuck McManis wrote:
> > I recall the folks who have collected PETs and C64s that are pretty common
> > and "worthless" these days (I saw a new Vic20 in box at the Hamvention that
> > they couldn't _give_ away.)
>
> Well had you picked it up you could have made a bit of money. Check what
> they're going for on E-Pay...
I don't know if I got _that_ VIC-20, but I did get _a_ VIC-20 in the box
for $2. I also got a C2N tape drive, new in the box for $1.
I'm doing pretty well... the last VIC-20 I bought was $4. I don't think I
can keep up the progression through too many more iterations, though. ;-)
-ethan
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