<> And then you woke up. First what are the rules, 6502 or 65C02, code in Ro
<> or Ram, what is the code supposed to do?
<>
<> My vote goes for something with some graphical element so we can "see" wh
<> is happening. (spinning ball, etc.)
Grpahincs favor certain cpus but then we also ahve to specify the graphic
interface as it may penelize some due to interface. Personally graphics
are an issue unto themselves and seperate
A possible list of micros for that era, I used 1982 as a cutoff date:
8bitters:
6502
z80
8080
8085
2650
1802
SC/MP
6800 (01/02/03, 6803)
6809
8048
8049
8051
z8
uPD 7800 (7800, 7811)
16bit or larger:
TI9900
808x
6800x
16032
z8000
T-11 (PDP-11 in a 40 pin dip and not the F11.)
1600
9440 uFlame
Pace/8900
No doubt I've missed a few.
Let the war begin.
Allison
<Golly! I wasn't aware that they actually put a SCSI controller on the
<board. That must have been several rev's later than mine. My two boards
Next rev. Also Ampro was one of the guns in setting the base SCSI spec
around 85ish.
<were the beta and first release. I put a couple of hundred of these into
<the field because I liked them and they allowed pretty compact packaging.
Not hard to understand.
<I was propping the door to a room in the basement with a couple of 10MB
<RODIME 3.5" drives which might work really well with this arrangement. I
<once ran one of these with a 1"-high 3.5"Sony drive which a PC believed wa
<a 1.2MB drive. Maybe I can fool the FDC drivers into doing a similar thing
<That would be handy. There's no "standard" 3.5" driver for CP/M.
I have 3.5" miniscribe 20mb MFM hooked to a xybec scsi bridge on a
SB180(also has 5380). Looks silly since the scsi bridge is larger than
the drive and the SB180s. It works because the drive is faster seek than
most older mfm drives like the st225 or 251. That and it throws less
heat.
<>Here we go again... I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS IDE. I said it was similar in
<>respect that it was a bus level interface for a controller and predates
<
<
<No, you surely didn't say that! It doesn't use the same cable definition o
<any thing like it. It just happens to use a 40-conductor cable. The reaso
Doesnt saying "its not IDE" cover that? I wes refering to the idea that
the bus can be a base micro IO bus (read, write, address, data, reset,
misc). That at the CONCEPT level is similar to IDE.
<I said I'd try modifying the firmware to talk to an IDE drive is that ther
<is reason to believe that the command structure is identical although the
<hardware would have to be modified to load the registers as it's done on th
<16-bit -WAH controller. The fact is that the 1000-05 and the 1002-05 bridg
<controller boards use the same chip (WD1010-05) as the HDD interface.
<That's where the command registers are located and they'll require
<programming in the same way. Since the IDE drive has, essentially, the sam
<register set on it to accomplish the controller functions, and the registe
<set mapped in the same way as the WD1003-WAH, it should be possible to mak
<it work similarly.
No yes at the concept level. At the real level the IDE has 16 bit data
path like the 1003, but the 1000-5 and 1002-5 tended to ahve differences
that are quite distinct. I turned them up while doing an article for TCJ.
That was about applying ISA-8 WD1002-WX cards as a cheap MFM host interface.
I found the -HDO board had a different address and register layout.
<>Finding them can be tough. the 6mhz are more common. 8530s or 8330s are
<>easier to find and offer better perfomance.
<>
<I'm really not that hot for it, but think it would be charming to put a se
<of '-H' parts in an early AMPRO Little Board and make it work at 8MHz. Th
<timing should work with 100ns DRAMs. Aside from the PROM, I doubt anythin
<other than the peripherals would be affected by the speed change. Of cours
There were articles for upgrading the amproLB to 8mhz. See TCJ
<www.psyber.com/~tcj>.
<the FDC would require a different tap from the clock divider, but everythin
<else should work as is, save, perhaps the PROM. The PROM might work if th
<clock switch were hacked as well. (I believe there was a little sorcery
<with switching the clock speed after copying the PROM into RAM, by switchin
<the preset on a counter. What I liked about this was the really sensible
Why not goo whole hog if your going to switch clock speeds and do clock
stuttering. That way only certain parts or the processor cycle are
stretched and the rest can run full bore.
<packaging you could use with these small boards. I have a video
<display/keyboard on a similar form factor which I'd really like to package
<with these other two boards and the drives. That would be truly minimalis
<for the time.
I packed mine in a box I found at DEC (oddball) that was very compact. It
also allows for external DC power (battery and solar) as mine has been
modded to take mostly cmos parts (CPU, CTC, SIOs, EPROM, 53C80, and some
of the losse ttl to 74hct). Power is way down.
Allison
<I wasn't aware that the NEC controller chip had a problem with the step
<rate. I stuck with WDC FDC chips in my own applications.
It was a problem of how the down counter for timing the steprate was
designed. It had a granularity of 1 (8") or 2mS (5.25") and could
truncate the first(only) step pulse. There were other paybacks that
some designers really liked as the disk interface was more complete
for things like head (side) selection, drive selection. When used
with DMA it's a fairly sane chip to program. However the PC implmentation
is rather badly hacked from the start and has become the defacto standard.
If it were done as suggested ack then 8" drive would have been quite
easy to do as well.
Allison
Does the hardare need to be "real" or can it be simulated? That would make
it less likely to favor one core over the other. If it's real, it has to be
available to both processors and quite identical.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, April 17, 1999 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: z80 timing... 6502 timing
>>Ooh! A machine code competition. I'm in! I'll do the 6502 and whoop
>>EVERYONE'S ass!
>
>And then you woke up. First what are the rules, 6502 or 65C02, code in Rom
>or Ram, what is the code supposed to do?
>
>My vote goes for something with some graphical element so we can "see" what
>is happening. (spinning ball, etc.)
>
>
Well, there's Norton disk editor. I've rescued data with it before. It
certainly is a time-intensive operation, though!
I have a spare license I can loan you if you need one.
P Manney
manney(a)hmcltd.net
Is it illegal to yell "Movie!" in a fire station?
>> that have read errors that DOS won't get past, bad sectors and the like.
Here is someone in Colorado with many nice Kaypro's they'd like to get rid
of. Please reply to the SENDER of the message:
Reply-to: DaveG56313(a)aol.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:43:42 EDT
From: DaveG56313(a)aol.com
Subject: Kaypro
Are you interested in Kaypro hardware and software?
I have four of them (I think it's four) gathering dust in a store room. One
is my original Kaypro II with an internal Ramdrive I built from plans I found
on GEnie. I think there's another original Kaypro II, a Kaypro IV, and two
Kaypro 10's (one with two 20mb hard drives replacing the original 10mb drive.
Four of the five are in working order.
Software includes a complete shareware library from the local Kaypro Users
Group I belonged to.
There are also two daisy wheel printers--Diablo 620's. One is parallel; one
is serial.
Let me know if there is any interest.
Dave Green
Loveland, Colorado
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Puttin' the smack down on the man!
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
>> > > Just back from Warschau (Poland) - Thanks. And BTW: since Karfreitag
>>
>> > Where? Oh, you mean Warszawa. Warsaw. ;-)
>>
>> (You're just lucky that's one of the few polish words without lots of
>> accents etc.) Hmm do you want to start another War ? ;)
>>
>> If you live in a city like Munich you learn about the ways
>> of naming a city - and of coure how senseless it is to
>> belive in calling a thin worldwide with one single name.
Hmm. I generally try and name a city in a language that is spoken in that city
- so I am usually careful to write Muenchen, Nuernberg, Braunschweig for Munich,
Nuremberg and Brunswick. But I admit that I would probably simply have written
Warsaw for Warszawa.
The main difficulty is when the language doesn't use Latin characters. I
wouldn't even know how to write "Bangkok" in Thai, although I think I could
manage "Taipei" in Chinese. (But Taiwanese place names should be transliterated
according to the Wade-Giles system still used in Taiwan, rather than in PinYin
as on the mainland)
Polish is one of the less bad languages for accents - Czech is far worse, to the
extent that in the UK we generally use Polish spellings...
> Well, maybe you could explain it to me, I'm afraid I don't get it. :^)
> I always wondered why Munich sometimes gets shown as Munchen. I can't do
> those funny accented characters, (umlauts?) even if I knew what they meant,
> just as well, most people around here have enough difficulty with 26
> letters. I don't know how you guys cope with all the extras, not to mention
> all this masculine/feminine/neuter gender and case stuff. Confused the hell
> out of me.
Umlauts are reasonable enough. Gramatical gender is an anachronism that should
be abolished as soon as possible. But English spellings (whenther British or
American) have been in sore need of reform since before they were
standardised...
> Good things about living in a single island country that's larger than most
> of Europe.
>
> 1) Everybody speaks English. ('Cepting a few migrants/boat people....:^)
> They expose kids to other languages at school, but theres is no real
> need/pressure to learn one to a level where conversation is possible.
> (Who we gonna practice on/talk to?)
> Some do learn Indonesian or Japanese, but most don't bother.
What? Have we found in the Aussies a nation who are even worse at foreign
languages than the British? I never thought I'd live to see the day! ;-)
> 2) You don't need a passport to drive across the road. Or travel 2000km for
> that matter.
Well, we're like that in the UK, except that the island is smaller.
> 3) 240VAC 3 pin sockets are a national standard.
That doesn't seem to have helped us...
> CNN is about the nearest I get. Upside is that I can now read most of the
> Cyrillic alphabet after 4 weeks of watching snippets of Serbian TV news
> subtitles!
> (Well I can read Belgrad(e) Pristina and Novi Sad anyway)
Watch out! The Serbian alphabet is as different from the Russian alphabet (the
de facto standard for Cyrillic) as the Polish alphabet is from the English
alphabet...
(I have somewhere a Yugoslavian banknote. Everything is written on it in four
local languages - two using Cyrillic and two using Latin characters. The
languages are similar enough that AFAIK nothing needs to be said more than three
times...)
Philip.
On 12 Apr 1999, Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> wrote:
] Well, so much for April 1st being the specific "Holiday of Jest" ;-)
I much prefer "August Fool's Day". Nobody expects it. :-)
Bill.
I'm almost afraid to ask this, but what language is the Perl
interpreter written in?
Bill.
(K&R C rules! ANSI C is for wimps!)
On 9 Apr 1999, Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> wrote:
] :: It's stupid to handle errors? Or are you saying one shouldn't be using C
] ::in the first place?
]
] The latter :-)
]
] :: -spc (Not that C is the best language ... )
]
] I'm still kinda stuck on Pascal, myself. But I loves Perl.
It is not such a great testimonial when you admit that you like
it because they paid you for it. :-)
Reminds me of the spoof interview with Staunstrup about C++ ...
Bill.
On 9 Apr 1999, Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
] I am presently paying for my classic computer hobby by crafting perl for 50+
] hours per week at consultant's wages. I *love* perl!
