I'd say let 'em prove they know enough not to hurt anything before you let
them at the "real McCoy" hardware. Test them out on a simulator complete
with obscure anomalies, let them prove they won't roach the hard disk or
dump the tape on the floor.
Of course, I also advocate allowing only those who've passed a test on the
issues/candidates vote. How silly can a guy get???
-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI
>On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
>> I'm not at all sure I'd let current generation programmers mess with MY
>> computer hardware. Thirty years ago, when programmers were not only the
>> people hunched over a teletype, but also the guys who jumpered the 026
>> keypunch and knew how to decipher what was on a tape which wouldn't
deskew
>> properly, you could trust them to examine without damaging things. Over
the
>> past 20 years, however, I've observed that programmers have less and less
>> concept of the reality of the computer in front of them or down the hall
at
>> the end of the cable . . .
>>
>> Such individuals would probably do damage, irreparable or otherwise, yet
not
>> only fail to grasp that it could happen, but deny it when faced with
>> incontrovertible evidence of their sins.
>
>Sure, so then you're in the camp that says lock them up and don't let
>anyone ever touch them, much less see them? How then does one learn
>anything about them?
>
>> I don't know whether it's better to protect the old hardware, or the
>> people's right to see it. I do know that I've observed perfectly
>> adult-looking individuals doing things to computer equipment not their
own,
>> of which I would only accuse a child not tall enough to reach it.
>
>If I were serious about creating a "museum" where I wanted people to be
>able to handle the artifacts (and by the way, I am) I'd make sure that
>each individual would be required to become a member, and membership would
>entail some manner of education about proper handling of computer items,
>including static discharge procedures, not pulling cards out of a live
>system, etc. From basic electronics to storage media handling to
>electrical safety precautions. Only after the new member passed this
>training and proved competence would he/she be able to actively examine
>and experiment with the artifacts.
>
>This has the side benefit of weeding out the weekend engineers and
>ensuring that the truly interested and dedicated get access to the stuff.
>The rest just get to look at it :)
>
>Sellam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
>
> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 02/15/99]
>
It's the second try at sending this message about getting into cmos. John
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Keys Jr. [mailto:jrkeys@concentric.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:48 AM
To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Toshiba
Just holddown the Fn key while turning on the machine to get into cmos.
John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of CHEWSTER WOLFMAN
> DAN
> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 2:56 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Toshiba
>
>
>
> Does anyone know how the fn keys work on the Toshiba T3100e40?
>
> I have one of these 286 and I have no idea how to use the fn combo with
> the F# keys.
>
> Also how do I get into the setup CMOS in one of these computers?
> Are there software that I can get to work with it, IE,
> powersavers and etc?
>
> Also how do I get the modem to work on the computer? I have noticed that
> there are already 2 builtin serial ports, one in back and one on the
> right hand side. Also what is little round plug used for, that is located
> on the left hand side of the laptop? Is that little plugin for a INPORT
> mouse or a Logitec Handheld scanner or what? Some models has a plastic
> plug in that socket.
>
> Thanks
> dan
>
>
>
To all classiccmpers who might be in the Southern California area
this coming weekend:
The TRW Electronics and Ham Radio Swapmeet is this Saturday, the
27th March 1999, from 7:30 am until 11:30 am, at the TRW El Segundo
facility.
From the 405 (San Diego) freeway, take the Rosecrans exit west,
proceed 1 mile to Aviation (under the Metrolink bridge) turn left
(south) onto Aviation and go south about three blocks; parking and
the Meet are in the southern lots of the plant.. just look for all
the antennae on the cars. ;}
Persons with Stuff to sell are welcome to use my Spaces (providing
there's room); e-mail me privately for further details.
Marvin has flaked out this time, so not only will I get all his
goodies, we can talk about him behind his back at the After-Swap
Classiccmp Brunch, provided anyone shows up for same. All are
invited!
Cheers
John
Just in time for all the HP items flowing thru The List: I have
gotten about 25 GPIB cables which might be of interest to all you
Hewlett-Packard types out there. Price: make offer on a few, U pay
shipping...
Cheers
John
Slashdot mentioned an interesting article titled "Secure Deletion of Data
>from Magnetic and Solid-State Memory," which mentions relatively low-cost
techniques for recovering data from supposedly "erased" media, which
I suppose could be applied to recovery of data from classic computing
devices: <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html>
- John
Someone posted earlier about some HP stuff at berman. I apologize, but lost
the message.
In any case, there were several items they mentioned were up this week that
I might be interested in. However, I just received the list from BDI and it
doesn't appear that such items are on the list.
Any ideas?
Jay West
This document has been elusive for quite some time. There are
no less than five of us on the list who are seeking it. I would
be happy to reproduce/distribute this to all interested parties
for cost . . .
Jeff
On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 06:57:52 -0600 "Jay West" <jlwest(a)tseinc.com> writes:
>I just sent a CS-80 reference manual to a list member.....
>
>Jay West
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 11:08 PM
>Subject: Re: HP disk drive command set
>
>
>>Joe:
>>
>>Yes, I could use this; I won't be getting a CS-80 document any time
>soon.
>>WOrk continues on the disassembly. I'll be getting a new interface
>pod
>>for my logic analyzer in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to take
>a
>>look
>>around 'inside'.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:50:09 Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> writes:
>>>Jeff,
>>>
>>> I finally found my copy of the docs for the HP Amigo command set.
>Do
>>>you
>>>still need a copy?
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
>http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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<Since P/OS is "in the public domain" (having been contributed to DECUS), do
<that mean that I can in principle reverse engineer it and publish my
<reverse-engineered "source code"?
Just a comment. No I don't think so.
First DEC(Compaq) still holds the copyright and it's free for use, not
free of copyright. Also I haven't seen a good disassembler for PDP11
(havent really looked either).
Still POS with the programmers toolkit was a nice multiprogramming system
with graphics back then.
Allison
>But seriously, I would require even the most obviously technically astute
>person to take some sort of qualifying "quiz" to make sure they indeed
>knew what they were doing. If they failed any part of this quiz, they
>would then be required to go through the entire informational course so
>that they would have all the information needed to minimize (and
>hopefully eliminate) any damage they could conceivably cause to any
>artifacts. Anyone who would go through the trouble to fulfill this
>requirement proves their sincerity and earns the right to access the
>materials and artifacts.
I like this... Provides education at the same time that you ensure
that the systems will be at minimum risk...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
I am trying to use some DECUS tapes which I obtained; they exist
on tape as one large file with extent .DSK .
Any info on how I can get started unpacking thses files?
Now that the 9trk works, that is.. :)
Cheers and Thanks..
John
