As I have experienced them, bridge controllers have two types of interfaces.
One class is the HOST interface, often SCSI or SASI, and the other is the
target interface, e.g. ST506 or SMD, etc. Though it's an easy mistake, it's
like asking whether a SCSI channel could drive the Q-bus via an Emulex SCSI
adapter.
While the data can flow both directions, the relationship is still one of
host and slave device. In short, NO! The SCSI <=> ESDI adapter won't let
you interface a SCSI drive via an ESDI host interface, unless, of course,
the ESDI is the host channel on the bridge adapter.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?
>>I collect bridge boards.
>>I can't help it-- I have a fetish for bridge boards. All makes:
>>Emulex, DTC, Xebec, WD, Adaptec, etc. All kinds of configurations:
>>Cpu<->MFM (ala wd-1000), SASI<->MFM, SCSI<->ESDI, SASI<->QIC30,
>>all kinds.
>>
>>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know
>>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs
>>are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the
>>Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge
>>ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'.
>
>Something I've been wondering about. These boards look to have been used
>to convert ESDI to SCSI for stuff like Apollo's and Sun's. Could they be
>used to convert a SCSI drive to work on an ESDI controller?
>
>Feel free to ask if I'm out of my Freaking mind, I've never really taken
>the time to look at them. Actually not sure I want to know, I think I gave
>the box of such things away.
>
> Zane
>| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
>| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
>| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
>+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
>| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
>| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
>| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
CCS is one of the features which distiguishes SCSI from previous
channel-based interfaces. There's no reason, though, to expect SASI bridge
controllers to work with SCSI host interfaces. What disturbs me is that
there are so many devices claiming to be SCSI-compatible when they clearly
are not.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?
>"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support
>the 'IDENT' command (among other things)
>"
>
>or disconnect/reconnect
>
>sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a
>SCSI Common Command Set board.
--- John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
> This was announced a few weeks ago...
>
>
<http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99089.piemcdg2.htm>
>
> - John
Am I on your mailing list?
=====
Edward J Beaulieu
maisnon(a)yahoo.com
ICQ# 10888245
__________________________________________________
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"The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support
the 'IDENT' command (among other things)
"
or disconnect/reconnect
sounds like the unix drivers are expecting to be talking to a
SCSI Common Command Set board.
"DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I
have several)"
I have docs on most of the SCSI OMTI/DTC/SMS boards. I would be
interested in info on the larger DTC 14xx series boards, esp the
ones that SMS used in the QBus boxes that weren't compatible with
DEC disc drivers.
There are other part numbers which should teach us to be specific. There's
a Motorola MC4024, which is a dual VCO not unlike the 74S124. The CD4024 is
a 7-bit counter. There's a Motorola MC4044 which is a
phase-detector/amplifier intended for use with their MC4024 as parts of a
PLL. OTOH there's the TI TMS 4044 4kx1 SRAM, and the CD 4044 which (?) is a
quad RS flipflop. With NEC numbers, the uPD414 won't do much good if you
need a uPC414.
You can probably imagine how I learned some of these details. The fact that
I still remember them may shed some light as well.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post
>The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has
>never made a CD4040, have they?
>
>Dick
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com>
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM
>Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post
>
>
>>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
>>>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally
>>>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is
>>>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second
>>>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer).
>>
>> Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult
to
>>confuse them "in person"...
>>
>> -Dave McGuire
>
The use of the entire part number might avoid confusion as well. Intel has
never made a CD4040, have they?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, November 26, 1999 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Need help, and I screwed up with my post
>On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
>>Yes, there are some numbers that were used for 2 or more totally
>>different chips. The other well-know confusing one is '4040' which is
>>either a CMOS 12 bit ripple counter (and is very common) or the second
>>Intel microprocessor (and is much rarer).
>
> Ahh, but the 4040 microprocessor is a 24-pin DIP...making it difficult to
>confuse them "in person"...
>
> -Dave McGuire
DOH!
I should read all the posts next time... I was thinking Intel 8251's...
<smack> However, if there is interest I could make a list of all my extra
IC's... some are pretty dang old. I also have all the schematics, software,
etc. for the Nova 1210. However, I need help with mine... I plugged it in
after reassembly and it works, but I quickly turned the key to off and
unplugged it cuz I noticed smoke coming from one of the capacitors on the
back of the backplane.. I either plugged the power connectors in backwards
or the supply is faulty, any ideas on how to diagnose this? I have the
schematics but they show a totally different supply than what is in the
machine... I got the Nova from a guy I met through Usenet. He said he had a
microVAX 3100 and a VAXstation 3100 for me, if I would go get them, as well
as a VMS gray wall. So I went up and got the stuff, and while I was loading
it we started talking... he mentioned he still had his first computer, a
Nova 1210, up in his attic... so we went up and dug it out and he said it
wouldn't boot... opened it up and the PSU was loose inside, bending the
boards. He then said i could have it if I wanted it, but he didn't think I'd
want it because it didn't boot. So I carried it down and put in the car,
with the board all out of it in antistat bags. It has 8K of core! Woohoo!
Anyways, I happened to notice a bunch of manuals and some binders marked
"Cray Research" in the trash area... I asked and he said they were mine if I
wanted them... So I got an orange wall also.. as well as gems like VAX-11
FORTRAN and a complete UNICOS manual set for the Cray Y-MP/216. I also have
VAX-11 C on 9 track. Unfortunately, he said I should have met him earlier,
since he had already taken a microVAX I to the dump.. I did get three random
Qbus boards though. Then he said his son down the street has some PDP-11's I
can have.. so I need to go back.. I still haven't gotten the Teletype
either... Also I have found a source of PDP-8 boards, don't know how many or
what they are but I can get them Sunday...
Will J
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On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:15:34 -0500 CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com writes:
>>The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know
>>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one.
>
>I believe the Adaptec boards are what were bolted onto the Fujitsu
>SMD drives I saw with a SCSI controller on them. I want to say that
>I've seen some OMTI ones too, but those may have been SASI.
Seems most of the OMTI bridges I've heard about were of the SASI
Variety . . .
>At one point I had a Pertec Formatted <- SCSI bridge, but it never
>interacted well with the hardware I wanted to use it with so it got
>traded away.
Funny you mention this; many of these boards were made before
the SCSI standard was 'solid'; hence some rather bizarre compatibility
problems. Take the Emulex MD-23, for instance. The thing works
with MS-DOS, no problems. Formats, works great. I can hang
two or more drives from it, no sweat. FreeBSD: Pukes on boot-up.
Ditto with OpenBSD. NetBSD: OK. What the @$%&*?!?!
Similar story with the ACB-4525; formats and runs great with
MS-DOS, no other OS can talk to it (at least the ones I've
tried so far). I guess MS-DOS really doesn't care.
The SASI ones I never expected to work: They don't support
the 'IDENT' command (among other things)
Jeff.
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On Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:07:54 -0800 Al Kossow <aek(a)spies.com> writes:
>"The SCSI<->SMD configuration still eludes me, however. I know
>they exist (Adaptec ACB-55xx), though I've never seen one. Docs
>are *really* hard to get. Still looking for the docs for the
>Emulex MD-23, possibly the best darned SCSI<->ESDI bridge
>ever made: Handles four drives at up to 24MHz data rate. Smokin'.
>"
>
>They exist.. I'll check if a friend of mine still has any. I have
>a big pile of adapter docs. The only thing on line currently are for
>the Xebec 1410 and 1401. Next time I'm at my storage locker, I'll see
>if I can find the box that has all this stuff. I know that Tony asked
>me for some old OMTI info a LONG time ago.
Wow, I would *really* appreciate that! SO far, the only docs I have
are for the ACB-4000, ACB-4525, and WD-1002-05' (thanks Richard!).
DTC has denied that they ever made bridge boards (even though I
have several), and I'm not even going to talk about Emulex . . .
Jeff
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