test-drb January 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

189 participants
897 discussions

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>>But Linux is just fine as a newbie OS for a kid. > > At what level are you talking? I have not seen any sofware for kids (like > the knowledge adventure or humongous entertainment series) that would run on > Linux. It is hard to get a kid used to play with windows for 6 years and > tell him that it is crap and the one where you have to type long commands is > a lot better. At what level? At a "newbie" level, apparently, i.e. not one who has been using Lusedoze for six years. If I ever marry and have kids, I hope they won't be too disappointed that I don't allow MS Windows or Intel 80986 (or whatever) machines in the house :-) My folks were never into computers or electronics or anything of that nature. But once the school got a PET (1979), and parents found out that I spent every break time in the school computer room, regardless of whether I could book time on the machine, they got me one for my next birthday. (Yes I still have it). Some of their house rules I may well implement if I raise a family, though. Like no TV during the summer holiday. (I'd prefer no TV at all, but one must compromise occasionally) Philip.

25 years, 11 months

Computers for children

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>> Apparently you have not tried Visual Basic... > >How is that as easy as ROM BASIC? You turn the computer, and Visual Basic >pops up immediately? I've yet to see such a computer (and if I do, I'll >bash it to pieces with an axe, but that's another story)!. Yes you can make your computer boot and load Visual Basic right away (you just have to wait a little longer:) What I meant by mentioning VB is that you can build a familiar interface very quickly and then add the code incrementally as you move along. VB takes care of all the extra stuff then you click on the play button and tada...(as a side note I do not like VB I just have to use it once in a while) > >We're talking about teaching _about_ computers, not teaching _with_ >computers. Granted, Alvin and the Chipmunks software won't run on Linux >(usually), and M$ Actimates won't work with it either...(echo "Hello, >World!" > /dev/barney, anyone?) but those things won't help someone who >wants to learn how a computer works. > Before you can really learn about computers you have to have an interest in it and so far I have not seen anything that could possibly interrest a kid that runs on Linux. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that MSBlows is THE solution but it is hard to make it simpler for a non computer litterate (actually for a kid who can't read it is strongly recommended to have a GUI but that's another chapter) If the kid starts asking questions on the under side of the machine then it is a good idea to switch to a machine that encourages the user to scratch under the surface. Francois

25 years, 11 months

Bozeman MT Computer Museum [WAS: Re: cray, paper tape, collector's books, tek terminals, and WANTED]

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

At 10:19 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >> I picked up both of these books at the museum in Bozeman, Montana. Listers >> familiar with it? Funny little place. > >I heard those guys were clowns. Any truth to the rumor? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > I'd have to disagree. Other than the oddity of being located in Montana (not exactly a hub of high-tech industry), I found the Museum well put together, with an interesting collection. It is small, though, and probably isn't worth a detour of more than 200 miles. There were < 10 "big iron" mainframes, < 20 of the usual minis, with a small collection of micros (20-30) - the latter weren't described in much detail. The exhibits are arranged more or less chronologically by technology, starting with mechanical computing devices (Hollerith Census machines, Comptometers), moving on to electro-mechanical machines, then to tubes, transistors, and microchips. Many of the machines are arranged in office environments that replicate what they might have looked like when in use, and there is some interesting supporting material (advertisements from the era, etc). The tour guides are very friendly, and knowledgeable enough to answer questions from the general public. It's a good place to introduce kids to many of the technologies and some of the people involved in the development of computers; most of the people on this list would probably find it less interesting. Much like computer collecting, computer museums are still in their infancy, so let's not judge too harshly. For the record, the place is The American Computer Museum, 234 East Babcock St., Bozeman, MT, 59715, tel (406) 587-7545, fax (406) 587-9620. No Web site or email AFAIK. And I have no affiliation, professional or personal, with the place. Cheers, Mark.

25 years, 11 months

Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:44 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >But not in most microcomputer BASICs. The Apple II, Atari and C64 all lack >BEGIN-BEND, WHILE-WEND, block IFs; the 64 doesn't even have ELSE. While-Wend (and Do While/Do Until) is just a shortcut for using If/Goto: Do While Flag <> True do some stuff If condition then Set Flag to True end-if loop is the same as :loop-in If Flag = True Then Goto loop-out end-if do some stuff If condition Then Set Flag to True end-if Goto loop-in :loop-out Spaghetti code is caused by bad programmers, not bad programming languages. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

25 years, 11 months

Computers for children

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:09 AM 1/13/99 +0000, you wrote: >> There are a lot of *really* good educational programs out there nowadays. >> Davidson, Learning Company, Br0derbund are some good names. They can >> really help kids get ahead. My niece is already reading at 4yo thanks to >> Interactive Reading Journey. (Not a record by any stretch, but no one is >> really pushing her.) > >Hmmmm... I am convinced that the age a child starts to read, and the >interest he takes in obtaining information has a lot more to do with the >parents than with computer programs. True, but there are several instances where good software can make a lot of difference. First, many parents don't have training in how to teach a kid to read, so the software can be a good assistant. For children with a learning disability, the software can make a huge difference. And even for the best of parents, getting a kid to read is probably not as much fun as playing the "games" used in these programs. In the US, however, a lot of parents don't have the time/energy/interest to work with their kids (yes, I know it should be a crime) so the software can take over some of the work, so that the parent's limited time/energy/interest can be directed towards the topics that a computer can't handle. I'm not saying that if a kid doesn't have a G3 Mac with all the software, they'll end up working at McDonalds their whole life, but it can certainly help them make the most of their potential without running everyone concerned ragged. btw, on a similar (and potentially off-topic) topic, does anyone have a source for affordable quantities (like 20) SCSI CD-ROM drives? 2x is fine, 4x is more than enough. External would be idea, but internal is acceptable as well. They're for my girlfriend's classroom. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

25 years, 11 months

Silent 700

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey all, I've got a TI Silent 700 printing terminal, not the portable one, but the big desktop kind of thing. It reminds me of a DecWriter. But as near as I can tell, a couple boards are missing from its internal card-cage. So... 1) Does anybody know these things well enough to help me figure out for sure if it has all of its guts? 2) Is anybody interested in owning all or part of it? Even if I can get it to work, I'm not terribly interested in keeping it for myself. Cheers, Bill.

25 years, 11 months

Computers for children

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, The perfect computer for a child? A NeXT Station, complete with Developer software if you can get it. NeXTStep Version 3.3 is fine (minor Y2K fixes needed), Openstep 4.2 would be better. A monochrome slab, 16M RAM/400M Disk ought to be about $200 (Hmm... <surf, surf> Deepspace Technologies (http://www.deepspacetech.com/)is selling them for $135, but no Developer software). There are Spreadsheets, Word Processors, Web Browsers, and Presentation Packages available for it for *free* (download from a web site, no-cost license for single users). The Development environment runs Objective-C, a completely OO system which is carried right through the entire operating system. Regular C supported too (but I don't think C++ or Pascal.) The experience starts with an easy, gui interface and progresses easily right up to Mach UNIX. Networking is built-in ethernet, with GUI configuration tools (work great with other NeXTs) and Unix command-line accessibility if you want more complicated stuff. Mathematica will run on it, though that costs a *lot* unless you are lucky enough to get it included on your machine. There's also a fair amount of music software as well, which I can't really comment on because I don't know much about it. It's big, rugged (well, the mouse cable and kb cable are a bit vulnerable) and impressive. Best of all, there are not very many games that run on it. :-) - Mark

25 years, 11 months

Apple monitor question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

On my computer scrounging trip yesterday I found a BIG monitor marked "Apple Composite 2 page monitor". Anyone know exactly wha that is? I've never heard of one before. What systems does it work on? Joe

25 years, 11 months

cray, paper tape, collector's books, tek terminals, and WANTED

by jonathan＠canuck.com

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wanna know: > > Not much to tell yet. It's a YMP-EL/98, the 8-cpu version of the > > air-cooled "baby's first Cray" series. > > Not only air-cooled, but more or less plug-into-the-wall as well. I envy > you. Yeah - it appears to just need 220 and enough room HVAC. A raised floor isn't even a requirement, though we're dying to put one in. Our biggest concern is simply the footprint, as our machine room has pretty much run out of space. We added a freebie sparcserver 690 on Saturday, and that's about hogged out the remaining space we were figuring on devoting to the Cray. > > At the moment, we know of two other machines of the same family > > that are now in private hands. > > I have had absolutely no luck in getting a supercomputer, for myself or > for RCS/RI. Currently I am bothering people about a MasPar and an ETA, but > both have hit brick walls. I suppose it helps to be in the right place at > the right time. How did you manage? Never seen a MasPar - would like to. The ETA would be a sweet find - which model? I stole a nameplate off of one about ten years ago; those machines are a solid piece of super history. Of course, in "Die Hard" you get to see a whole floor of CDC machines, including an ETA-10, get blown up _real_good_. As far as "managing", I really don't want to say yet. Any further comments before it's in our machine room would be premature. And the people handing it over may very well not want us to disclose the source. They've told us that there may be more machines in the future, as they're decommissioned, and probably won't want the risk of people pestering them. ... Courtesy Bruce Lane (kyrrin(a)my-dejanews.com), who turned me on to the list: > Can someone please get in touch with this guy? He asks a most > interesting question. "Bill Mohler" <bill(a)cs.oberlin.edu> > Subject: Help: Paper tape reader to PC > Any advice on how to attach a paper tape reader to an IBM compatible > computer? How about making the PC emulate a tape reader? Anyone been in touch with this chap yet? I expected someone to post a mention of the interface in question. ObClassicBit: As they say, one of the jobs "on the things-to-do list" is bringing up the front panel imsai with the asr-33 for the express purpose of loading up a recently-acquired micro$oft 8K basis paper tape. Just out of curiosity, how rare is this software? Anyone else on the list got it? Anyone else want a copy if/when I get around to it? Hey, Bill! I'm a-leggin' yer code! Come 'n' git me! ... "John R. Keys Jr." <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> pitched: > Another one that I really like is Stan Veit's History of The Personal > Computer it's a great reference source with photos so that you know what to > look for. He writes a little history about each machine. It's still only $3 > from the guy on ebay. John This is WELL worth it. I met Stan at his store in NYC back 79; very nice chap. His book is a good write from someone who was there. On the other hand... > > Haddock's book is A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket > > Calculators, > > subtitled A Historical, Rarity, and Value Guide, by Dr. Thomas F. Haddock, > > Books Americana, Florence, Alabama, 1993. ISBN 0-89689-098-8. is a REAL piece of shit. This guy doesn't know anything, and the book looks like it was assembled with a photocopier, a stack of old Byte magazines, and a rubber stamp that says "Value: $50-$75". I picked up both of these books at the museum in Bozeman, Montana. Listers familiar with it? Funny little place. ...

25 years, 11 months

Berkeley Enterprises 1956 Report

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>Hey, Chuck. Do you happen to remember approximately when that Shannon >article appeared? Berkeley had many logic toys and robots, including a Ok - don't have the Scientific Earthling article that a similar project appeared in, but found in an IEEE book "C.E. Shannon: Collected Papers" one called "Presentation of a Maze-Solving Machine" - from "Transactions 8th Cybernetics Conference, Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation, 1952". Is a thick and chewy book. Also, get this - in the paper on "Programming a computer for Playing Chess" (National IRE Conference, March 9, 1949), he referances the game of Nim, and that a machine able to play a perfect game has been constructed - Condon, Tawney and Derr, U.S. Patent 2,215,544. The "Nimotron" based on this patent was built and exhibited by Westinghouse at the 1938 New York World's Fair. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

25 years, 11 months

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test-drb January 1999