More like a crummy computer. I think the school had bought it used for $50
(or it was donated), and it wouldn't even run Win 3.1. It had Win 3.0 (1
MEG RAM). When I was looking at it, the power supply (this is from 1991)
pumped out a huge 32 watts. I'm surprised that the thing lasted as long as
it did.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K/heat
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:51 AM
>
>
> < Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan
> < working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY
ti
>
> The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not
> good for some systems.
>
> Likely it was a crummy fan.
>
> Allison
>
The last VT103 I configured went to RCS/RI and it was tested with a
11/23B in it.
< Well, I always thought that RSX and RSTS/E were far
< better of with more memory. Also, with V5.0 of
< RT-11, the availability of 4 MBytes and a VM: was highly
< useful - not needed, but very nice. Of course, until
< recently, DEC memory boards were so expensive that
< more than 1/4 MByte was not worth while in any case as
< opposed to SIMMs with the PC. However, a half MByte
< board (M8067) is now so inexpensive that it is no longer
< a problem.
I have systems with 256k and more, with a hard disk having a ramdisk is
cute but not required. Doing a a non hacked system is far easier.
Also 4mb of DEC qbus ram (1mb cards) will severely load the BA11S boxes
I have never mind the Vt103 PS, I've done it. That box with 11/73, RQDX3,
DLV11j, LAV-11, RLV12, RXV211 and 4 memory cards overloaded the 340watt
PS! The disks were off seperate power. Heck the two RD52s and RX33
requires a 70W power supply.
< > A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11.
< > That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods,
< > RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates
< > the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp).
<
< What hardware did you use to connect the RQDX3 to the RX50/RX33
< floppy drives? In general, I found the floppy to be far too slow
< and if I was jumping up the an RX33, for the same price (at current
< cost for a hard drive) I would prefer at least an RD51.
The BA123 disk distribution card M9058. I use both RX33 and RX50.
generally stuff for RX50 being more common I use that more though the
rx50 will read/write RX50. for a hard disk 30mb Quantum D540s (RD52)
as they are fast and reliable plus plenty of space. RD50, RD51, RD31,
RD32 are not worth the effort as they are slow or old.
< You can always power the disk drives with an auxiliary power
< supply from a PC. In that case, you can even have 2 hard
< drives and 2 floppies. Otherwise, with just the one hard
Danger Will Robinson. External MFM drives on seperate power means YOU
MUST POWER OFF THE DRIVE FIRST THEN THE SYSTEM. Failure to do so will
mean writing garbage to the disk at what ever track it's on. The fix is
easy reformat and reload the disk... Not something you want to do. It's
ok if they both power off at the same time. Many PC power supplies have
a switched outlet that can power the VT103.
< drive (under the tube), it is indeed on the edge of the PS
< if the VT103 supplies all the power. One other option I
Don't, the drives generate serious heat and that spot is poorly cooled.
< mentioned is that a SIGMA RQD11-B (MFM controller)
< uses about the same power as an RQDX3, but has BOOT
< ROMS. As a result, you can use just the dual 11/23 and
< no BDV11. Then there is enough internal power to run
That's handy but the disk is 30-37W and it's the back breaker. Going
with over 256k of ram invites the same problem. If you want a big system
get a decent box with adaquate cooling and power and use that.
< YES!! If run for a long time. But for short demos of
< an hour or less, the VT103 was highly effective. Most
< individuals who were familiar with the VT100 did not
< recognize the VT103. So when the demo was given,
< the first reaction was to ask about the computer - they
< saw only a VT100. We used to say that we had substituted
< clever squirrels inside the VT100 instead.
there were three differnt similar systems. PDT11/130 with TU58, VT103
and a MDS11-A. The latter two woere similar but slightly different
backplane.
< I even heard that someone had re-wired the backplane
< to allow a MicroVax II (ABCD slots for the first 2).
It would be easier to use a H9276 or other correct backplane in the
available space. Still the microvaxII and memory eats power in
a serious way.
< Now imagine if DEC had sprung the VT103 on the
< PC world as a PC at PC prices with a 150 watt power
Try more like a 300W ps to build want your talking about.
< supply (and a bigger fan) to easily allow hard drives under
< the tube. And later, had gone to the MicroVax II as
Why not the pro350/380, a well designed PDP-11 desktop system.
If you want a tiny vax get a VS2000 or one of the 3100 series.
< a standard option. The 10 year late DEC PCs would
< have been initially based on the PDP-11 and could
10 years late???? The Pro350 was in the market the same time as the PCxt
and the PDT11/150 predates the PC by a few years.
< then have used the VAX. The only thing lacking was
< a pricing model to compete with the XT and the AT
The PRO350 competed with a loaded PCxt with CGA color and a hard disk for
very similar $$$$. for similar $$$ inthe PCxt space was the Rainbow100.
< I understand that a total of 32 solder connections are
< required. I once saw the re-wired backplane. It
< seemed to have been done with wire-wrap wire
< since the solder points were so small.
The ones I did had longer WW pins on the backplane (BDV-11s) and I used
a standard bussing strip I have. Saves megga pain WW'ing a backplane.
Allison
>> < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with
>> < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane,
>> < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the
>> < necessary technical information.
>>
>> I've built a few and have data as well.
>>
>> Allison
>>
>Someone -- post the wire wrap info...
If I remember correctly, you buss pins BC1, BD1, BE1 and BF1...
With a Q/CD backplane, that would mean just four sets of
wires down the AB side (BC1-BC2-BC3, etc, BD1-BD2-BD3, etc, etc)
For a Q/Q backplane, that would mean
BC1-DC1-DC2-BC2-BC3-DC3, etc (maintaining the serpentine)
BD1-DD1-DD2-BD2-BD3-DD3, etc...
BE1...
BF1...
or you could do what I did... bus the AB and CD sides separately,
then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down
to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized
'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the
backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was
a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large
holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting
corresponding pins of successive backplane slots...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of
Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it
goin'.
Tony (who runs off to find a home for the Data General arriving in
september)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 12:43 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users
> group with our
> < raggedy group?
>
> Tony,
>
> That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step.
>
> Allison
>
OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is
supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the disks
seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the
Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount.
Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels.
RSX-11M V4.1 |
RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of
RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot.
Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try to load
RSX-11M V4.1
EXCPRV V1
HLPDCL V2
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1
MCRSRC V1
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1 |
ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load it.
UPDATE V2 |
ACS MODS V3 |
Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 |
Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and based
on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN.
What on earth is the third pack?
Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged?
On a semi positive note, the drives (2 RL02, and 2 RL01) came with 2 RL02
packs and a RL01 pack in them. The two RL02's contain a bootable system
that appears to have the Whitesmith C on it. I'm not sure about the RL01.
I'm still hoping the Whitesmith C distribution on RL01 is OK.
Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to play
with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the
emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs to
go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our
raggedy group?
Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:06 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> < If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to
> < lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand,
> Its alot of
> < work.
>
> I wasn't thinking of a real convention... more like a remote tailgate
> party.
>
> Allison
>
> Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:31:42 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
> Subject: C64 for $800
>
> I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's
> worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work
> again?
Actually there's quite a lot of really good Commodore 64/128 stuff there...
> 1- C128-D Computer, with keyboard and internal 1571 disk drive. Jiffy Dos is built in with the switch
> on the front of the machine. In GREAT condition.
the 128D is a nice computer when you find one that works reliably. $30
> 1- Super CPU 128 with 8 Megs installed. Will put the 128-D at 20 mhz.
This is a 20 Mghz accellerator for the 128, it was just put on the market this
year. Probably good for $150 alone.
> 1- CMD RamLink with 12 Megs, includes the HDD Cable and battery backup.
Nice REU unit, does a RAM disk with it's memory and allows for fast parallel
access to CMD Hard Drives. Another $100.
> 1- 1581 Disk Drive... with Jiffy Dos
Somewhat hard to get maybe $40 at best.
> 1- CMD FD-2000 Disk Drive. 1.6 meg floppies yeah!
Improvement over the 1581, lets you also use 1.44 md disks and with right
software access IBM disks too. $75.
> 1- CMD 2 GIGAbyte Hard Drive that looks CHERRY New!
A CMD Hard Drive for your Commodore 64/128 is a must for the commodore fan,
Probably about $200 at most.
> 1- Commodore 2002 40/80 Color Monitor
Nice Monitor, can be used on Amigas too... $40.
> 1-1541 Disk Drive... Yes, WITH Jiffy Dos
> 1- 1571 Disk Drive with.... Jiffy DOS!
> 1- C64c Computer
Ok, I guess... Not too terribly exciting there... Maybe $50
> 1- Action Replay Cartridge (believe its v4 or 5)
Get $15 probably from me, I prefer Super Snapshot myself.
> At least 30+ Origional Programs
'Paid for Software' A buck a piece without knowing what it is... $30
> A whole GEOS COLLECTION, Origional in boxes.
I'm not much of a GEOS Fan. I could resell it for probably $20... Though
with an original GEOS 64 2.0 disk I coulde upgrade to the recent GEOS upgrade
- Wheels, which sounds pretty hot.
> Over 300+ 5.25 floppies, all kinds o stuff.
Read Pirated I'd go up to $30 hoping there would be a few gems of 64 software
lore hidden away.
> Once again, this is a once in a lifetime Commodore Collection. If you can pry this from my hands you've
> gotten the BEST Commodore Hardware that has ever been available anywhere.
Lifetime, no, Heck I could collect that all in a year at a fraction, just try
to find docs for a PET MTU graphics board (like I am), I have a collection of
a lifetime.
> Everything... Is in VERY GOOD working order, many things are in fantastic shape. No junk
> whatsoever. (Well I didn't go thru all 300+ floppies, treat those as "BLANKS"
>
> I should mention, many manuals and software for the CMD items ARE INCLUDED! The FD, the HDD, THE RL and the SCPU 128.
>
> Now all you gotta do is....
> Show me da Money! :)
Total about $765 dollars, not to say I would bid on it, but, it is a nice list
of equipment, and the current price is not all that out there. You can tell
by the list the guy was either a Commodore BBS sysop or heavily into GEOS,
only those two groups buy heavily into RAMLinks and mass storage units. I
Don't recognize the name Ice BBS though.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
< Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan
< working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY ti
The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not
good for some systems.
Likely it was a crummy fan.
Allison
I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K
RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not
being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to
find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital -
and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare
XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads??
ThAnX,
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
> It was a neat machine for an XT. I don't recall if I ever checked to see
if it
> was using that extra memory or if it had any SW with it. My friend will
be
> delighted to know that he can squeeze out a little extra ram for
memory-hungry
> DOS programs.
>
> ciao larry
>
> lwalker(a)interlog.com
< That, is not the HD heat problems...cooling air was poorly done in
< both installation and case design. Old Compaq Deskpro cases have
< that in mind. ST225 got real hot too so need to watch that on any
< 5.25" hds and insure cooling is good.
Amen to that. Heat is a bad thing for computers or their peripherals.
Most suffer from to much heat, and too much heat around the disk stack.
< Those ST251's have rapidly died out around here,
Actually I'm still running one, in a Leading Edge model D Xt box that
does cool exceptionally well. The power supply (and the fan in it) is
behind the disk stack and exceptionally well cooled. I put a second fan
in the 486/66 for that reason... to hot.
The altair taught me well about heat... and lousy air flow.
Allison
