At 02:47 PM 7/24/98 GMT, you wrote:
>>>From: Bill Kent <billakent(a)hotmail.com>
>>>My name is Bill Kent and I am working on a story for a major online
>>>publication. The focus is on users who use what others might consider
>>>"obsolete" technology. I would like to speak to a few users who use
>>>oder PCs (386 and below) for productivity apps. I'm talking about in
>>>business, education, or home. If you use them as servers or something
>>>else, that's super, I'd like to hear about it. I'm not interested in
>>>hobbyists who just enjoying hacking the machines. If it requires a
>>>soldering iron, it's too complex for this article.
Well, let's see. I use a Radio Shack model 100 (like many people) for
taking notes/writing away from home. Once I get my Starlet fixed, I'll be
doing the same with that (CP/M laptop, with Wordstar in ROM). I also have
an Outbound notebook (mac clone laptop ca. 1990) that I and my girlfriend
use.
She (Rachel Grilley, <auntierae(a)california.com>) also uses older macs in
her classroom to teach her first graders reading, math, science, etc. They
range from plusses to IIci's.
My voicemail system is currently running on a 286/512K/40mb system, but is
about to be upgraded Real Soon Now to a shoebox-sized 386sx system I picked
up recently at a surplus place. (Same VM card/software, just different
computer -- actually can run on an 8088 even.)
I have an Atari Portfolio (8088, DOS, size of a video tape) that I carry
around for taking notes.
I also use my Atari ST's and Falcons for music sequencing/recording.
(Well, not as much as I like, but once I win the lottery...) I can also
put you in touch with a lot of people who are using their ST's a lot.
And lastly, my main machine is a 486 laptop, but I have written a DOS-based
application to manage the San Francisco Free List (see
<http://www.sinasohn.com/freelist/> for more info) including maintaining
the database of events, building daily and monthly web pages, and
generating weekly event listings. Eventually, I'll probably move that onto
a different DOS-based laptop so others can assist in maintaining the events
database.
Anyway, feel free to drop me a note about any of the above (or anyhthing
else, for that matter).
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Of course, this is a bit of a problem for people like me, who are too
young for an IMSAI, never mind a PDP8
>I've used - and repaired - a lot of embedded control systems using
>machines like the PDP11, PDP8, Data General Nova, etc. These machines
>work as well today as they did 25 years ago when they were made, they
>still do the same job running the same software. There is simply no
>reason to replace a reliable, documented solution with a modern
>undocumented one.
>
It's not quite the same. All PC components are third-party and thus
there is no guarantee it will work quite right. Are the
well-documented IBM PC, XT, and AT machines better in this sense?
Since you have the manuals, you could probably build your own MDA
card!
>Contrast that to the modern PC. If it fails, you swap boards until it
>works again, never really knowing that you've found the fault. And you
>don't know that the new video card (say) won't behave slightly
>differently to the old one. Seen it happen far to often to want to
depend
>on such a machine.
>
>Problem is, I'm an electronic engineer. So I tend to use computers -
>including old ones - to help with that work. And I'm not afraid of
taking
>a soldering iron to them.
>
>Case in point. 10 minutes ago I needed to examine the contents of a ROM
>chip - an obscure old ROM chip - from a word processing system I'm
>repairing. I've got a special card in an old IBM XT that'll do that.
Not
>hardware hacking per se, though - just a homemade tool to help with my
work.
>
>> >>I'd like to hear stories about how this technology can be applied
to a
>> >>job and does it well. The general slant of the article is to be
>> >>positive, but if anyone has any good stories about failures which
>> >>occurred because you can't do EVERYTHING with older technology.
>
>That is _very_ uncommon. A lot of old machines are in embedded control
>systems, which have been running the same program since they were made.
>They don't stop running it properly just because a new machine has come
>on the market...
>
>And anyway, CPU speed is often needed (for mainstream applications)
only
>to support the user interface. I personally have formatted and printed
a
>200 page manual using TeX/LaTeX on a 386 PC. A 286 would probably have
>done it just as well. TeX may not be user friendly for the new user,
but
>it certainly is friendly to the experienced user who wants a text
>formatter that doesn't get in the way.
>
>
>> >>
>> >>mailto:billakent@hotmail.com
>
>-tony
>
>
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What kind of boards? Was it single-board or backplane or what?
Also, what are the key differences between Hp and PC?
>>I have a bunch of boards that I would like to move to a good home,
>>otherwise I will scrap them out. _ANY_ offers over shipping costs will
be
>>considered.
>>
>>Set of boards for an HP150 system! I am not sure what the processor
>>is
>
> Are you kidding! It's an 8088! It runs at 5 MHz MOL just like a PC.
>Some 150 even had the optional 8087. The 150 was one of those ALMOST
IBM
>PC compatibles. I have at least eight or nine of them and they're all
>working. Most of them are looking for homes. Hint, hint!
>
>(lots of HP house numbers, but I do see an 8041A and 9914A, neither of
>>which are the main processors). I have a motherboard with an jack for
an
>>RJ45 keyboard, HPIB connector, and two RS232 ports. I also have a
board
>>with lots of 4164 DRAMs, another with RAMs and ROMs, another mystery
>>board, and a module that says 3278 interface (HP #45641A).
>
> The 45641 is an optional 3278 Emulation board. It costs $1200 in the
'88
>HP catalog.
>
> If no one wants the boards, I'll take them for the cost of shipping.
>
> Joe
>>
>>William Donzelli
>>william(a)ans.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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I assume you mean the apps. CP/M and DOS are fairly similar
>While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do
>faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro.
>
I don't know
>I do, did you misread?
>
Why do you need an 8" controller? The same floppy controller can be
used for both 5.25" and 3.5". There never were any jumpers for any
MFM drives, nor have I seen much for IDE drives. This has nothing to
do with PCI or PnP. Just set the correct type in the BIOS and that's it
>Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work?
What
>do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT
>plug into on the PCI only board?
In fact, I am not familiar with any real difference between PCI and
ISA controllers. I have never had any floppy problems. The reason
why I said 'if you can plug one in' is because the 5.25" drives use
edge connectors, unlike 3.5" which use BERG strips (is that what
they're called?). This is the biggest problem one is likely to have.
>
>Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they
>have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long
>since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing
>steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't
>matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day.
>
>Allison
>
>
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I almost forgot to post about this. I recently acquired a complete
Heathkit H89 system, with dual floppies and a small printer (OkiData
Microline 82, serial), all in excellent condition.
I got with it a bunch of manuals and floppies, among them CP/M boot
diskettes. As I recall, this is a Z80-based system, yes? Is it possible to
use a hard drive on it?
Thanks in advance.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
Can I make use of the Centronics interface? What type of 'serial car'
do you recommend? Can I use my Apple //c w/serial port but w/o CP/M?
>Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs
can't
>read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way
>would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80
>(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I
do.
>
>Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that
>doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC
Kermit80
>has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp
from
>ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of
>several mirror sites.
>
>
>--
>
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Dept. of Computer Science
> University of York
>
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On Jul 24, 13:57, Max Eskin wrote:
> Subject: Apple ][ file conversion
> Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch
> of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card.
> What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3
> various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a
> PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it
> with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks.
Apple ][ disks don't use standard FM or MFM encoding, so Macs and PCs can't
read them. If you can find a serial car for the Apple, the easiest way
would be to get a copy of Kermit-65 (for DOS 3.3 files) and/or Kermit80
(for CP/M) and transfer the files over a serial link -- that's what I do.
Kermit-65 comes with instructions on how to get it into an Apple that
doesn't already have any kind of file transfer software, and IIRC Kermit80
has some similar instructions. You can get Kermit by anonymous ftp from
ftp.columbia.edu, or http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/, or from any of
several mirror sites.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Several months ago, I was given an A][+, with a z80 card and a bunch
of program, as well as data, disks. It has a printer interface card.
What is the easiest way to transfer the data on these disks (CP/M 3.3
various programs, mainly Wordstar 2.x) onto a PC or mac? Is there a
PC program that will read Apple CP/M disks? I couldn't easily do it
with a Mac since these are 5.25" disks.
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< In general, I hope everyone that prides themselves of running
< Electric Pencil on their Altairs is doing it for practical purposes,
< and not because they just want to show off that they won't use
< a PC.
While I do some of it on PC, more over time there are things I can do
faster and easier on the s100 crate or even the Kaypro.
< A server for what? You must have an Interlnk client if you are using
< Intersrvr, unless you hacked the protocol...
< >
< >I do use an old 386sx/25 as a headless server using MSdos6.22 intersvr
< >and interlnk software and a parallel port data cable(LapLink).
I do, did you misread?
< I would bet that _most_ hackers do it for commercial/industrial
< reasons. FOr everyone who built their own z80, hundreds came off the
< assembly line.
And hundreds more were modified. Very few were built from the ground up
but, many were built from an intermediate state. IE: buy a s100 z80 cpu
>from company A, ram from B, floppy controller from n, floppy from S
and a box from a supplier of nothing but boxes... that constitues a
built z80 system circa 1980ish.
< >documented at best.
< That's an immense exaggeration. P-II boxes a) Have no jumpers, as a
< rule b) can support a 5.25" fdd if you can plug one in.
Why the "if you can plug one in"? Will plug and puke really work? What
do you do if it doesn't? What slot does the 8" controller from the XT
plug into on the PCI only board?
< >size. There are many PDP-8s (1970s tech), PDP-11s (late 70s into the
< >80s tech) and Data General Novas still in service as control systems
< >where they do the same thing everyday as the have for the last 20+
< years.
<
< I agree with that. It's impressive how many people think Windows NT
< is a safer option than UNIXoids though NT is only 1/3 as old...
Keeping in mind I was referring to systems in place and working as they
have for more years that M$ existed. Any bugs and the like have long
since been worked out or are at least well known. For someone makeing
steel parts or whatnot the OS, CPU and all that jazz really doesn't
matter when his task is to punch holes in 500 pieces a day.
Allison
