At 01:30 PM 6/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I know of sources that satisfy everything except the *cheap*.
>Small VGA color monitors - 5", 7", etc. - are readily
>available from all the folks who sell embedded systems and
>components. Expect to pay $600 and up, though.
>
>For a similar price you can also get VGA-compatible color LCD
>displays in the same size range.
Ooh, that would be *perfect*, except for the $. 8^( Hmmm.. How good is
the security at these places? 8^) But seriously, a 5-7" monitor for $600?
I guess there's not as big a market for them, but the folks that need 'em
*really* need 'em.
>a Pentium motherboard that's only 2.5" square!
Now that's pretty damn cool!
I picked up a SIIG computer. It's a 386SX (and probably too new for here)
and is about 4" wide by 3" tall, by about 11" long. Fully self contained,
just add monitor and keyboard. Has 16-bit and 8-bit ISA Slots (1 each),
and both floppy and hard drive. Pretty darn cool; it's my new voicemail
system. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
OK. I just purchased a Windows CE handheld. I realized that:
1) It represents MS's rebirth. That, along with cross-platform apps, means
that MS isn't going to be doing to much with Windows 9x/NT after a couple
years...
2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors.
Now, I've got 2 questions:
1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off without
purchasing a hard card?
2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and my
N64?
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>Thanks for the tip, Tim. I'll dump all of my intel stock now. :-)
Seriously, that doesn't mean going away from Intel. x86 is supported.
Besides, Linux'll take over x86's hardware.... ;-)
>> 2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors.
>
>The H/PC was a bit of a flop. For some reason, not many people wanted to
>buy a machine that looked like Windows95, but ran on slower hardware with
>no application compatibility.
Well, believe it or not, it took Microsoft for "open-season" to start on
handhelds.
>However, I like the new Pilot rip-off, the Palm-sized PC, better. And if
>you've never seen their Auto PC for cars, brace yourself for some drooling
>(guaranteed to flop at the current $2K price though). They're also making
>inroads into embedded systems with CE.
Great. Now, stoplights and car batteries will freeze on me.
>> 1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off
without
>> purchasing a hard card?
>
>You've got internal battery-backed RAM for that.
OK.
>> 2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and
my
>> N64?
>
>Sure, just as easily as you can move stuff between the 6502 based Nintendo
>and an AIM-65 (i.e., no way dOOd -- even if the CPU is the same, nothing
>else is). However, I seem to recall that Microsoft recently signed-up a
>game machine manufacturer for CE, and it was either Nintendo or Sega.
That's what I thought. But I heard a friend talk about it...
As for the Sega, Windows CE's OK for what I want it for: Simple eMail.
No graphics, no attachments. I don't want Windows CE freezing up my game
machine. Especially not when UNIX based competitiors are availabe. I said
that I liked Windows CE. I didn't say that it was the best at anything.
Just shows promise.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>Green? For the first half-dozen years I never saw any Microsoft
>documents in color. I have several Microsoft manuals and binders
>from when their office was in Arizona and all of those are
>black on white. Later stuff from when they moved to a suite in
>Bellevue was still in black and white. I didn't see any green until
>1980-1982 when Microsoft was selling Digital Research's CP/M with
>their Softcard (Z-80 drop-in for the Apple II).
OK. How many softcards were made?
>BASIC implementation for dozens of personal computers in the late 70's
>and very early 80's, most importantly.
I know that. Was their first BASIC the 4K tape one for the Altair?
>> Anything
>> for say... the Apple II?
>
>Absolutely. Applesoft BASIC (in every II+ and later, and installed as
>an option in most II's) was written by Microsoft. Microsoft also sold
>several well-known Apple II games (ADVENTURE is the most well-known).
They wrote that? DUDE!!!! (I recently aquired a Applesoft BASIC manual (C)
1979, in near mint condition.)
>You know, I could go on for pages and pages with software that Microsoft
>sold in the late 70's and early 80's for non PC-platforms. You'd probably
>be much better educated about computing in that era if you simply went
>and found the _BYTE_ magazines from that time frame and read the ads.
OK. See, I checked out MS's museum, and I'd have to say that from a
corporate perspective, it had a pretty fair view of things. They had the
Apple II, Macintosh, Altair, etc. there.
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
Tim D. Hotze
>>>I think it depends on the machine. My DN3500 is about PC/AT sized. My
>> >425 is a less tall, but takes up more desk area.
didn't these things need some sort of domain controller or something to
boot? I remember playing around with one at the place where I used to
work repairing old machines and it got a sensible display up but then
refused to boot. Mind you, I seem to remember that it took two keyboards
- a standard PC one and an HP-specific one...
the whole lot went to the tip sadly, minus the SCSI disks which were
formatted for a different system (mind you, I rescued a few good
machines from that place over time - the Tower32/700, Tektronix XD88,
Philips P3800, numerous Link 480Z's and BBC model B's to name but a
few...)
>> disk and MB in it, the FPU went to my upgraded Mac SE), and I didn't even
>> get ONE part out, just a face full of PCB fumes(whatever those boards are
blowtorches work wonders surprisingly. It's very rare to toast a chip
providing you're careful with heat distribution (not recommended for
repair jobs on boards that you want to keep though ;*)
cheers
Jules
I guess you're right. But still... er... um...
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff...
>> Yep. I know that. But MS dominance didn't exactly happen overnight.
They
>> didn't have much of a hold in anything until the IBM PC took off...
>
>I'd disagree with you here. Microsoft had a much broader scope before
>the IBM PC, selling hundreds of pieces of software for dozens of
>different platforms. And certainly a plurality, if not a majority, of
8-bit
>home micros booted straight into Microsoft BASIC. Just about every
>consumer-oriented-everything-in-a-box CP/M system came bundled with
>MBASIC!
>
>Tim.
>> Olympic Decathalon (responsible for many a broken left/right arrow key
>> required for the running competitions).
is that the same game as Daley Thompson's Decathalon on the old
Spectrum? Seem to remember that burning out a few keys - I didn't
realise it was a Microsoft product though!!
Jules
>
> Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS played
> an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1986
> or so onwards, they were a industry dominator.
> Now, from what I understand, the origional MS logo was GREEN? Somebody
> have a picture?
Yes it was green. If I can find an example, I'll scan it for you.
> Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course,
> Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of
> innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything
> for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current
> ports of IE 4.0)?
Well, you're getting a copy of MULTIPLAN for the Apple ][. Seems
like there was a word processor for the A][ as well.
Don't forget Excel for the MAC. Excel was on the Macintosh long
before it became a standard on that 'other' windowing OS. In fact,
Excel is the only Microsoft product that actually *PREDATES* the
operating system it runs on!
No, MS Word dosen't count-- WinWord was a totally new product,
bearing *no* resemblence to the original 'Word' for Mess-DOs. Excel
was a straight port (well, it *looks* that way, anyway).
If I look through some old issues of byte, I'm sure I'll find others
. . .
Jeff
>> Which "Alpha"? Alpha Micro?
Hmm, is that "Alpha micro" as in "Alphatronic PC"? I have a few of those
things lying around someplace in various states - my old university
wrote their own terminal software for them, burned it out to eeprom, and
we used to use them as terminals to access the Unix systems.
IIRC I did see reference to an expansion box that allowed the use of
hard drives with CP/M on - I did a lot of digging at the time and never
turned up anything for them - I just had the custom Uni terminal ROMs
and a set of BASIC ROMs that originally came with the machines.
They were made by Triumph-Adler, from what I remember. Any information
on these boxes would be most helpful!! (I have the original manuals, but
they don't exactly go into a lot of detail)
cheers
Jules
>
