test-drb June 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

158 participants
941 discussions

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

United Cracking wha??? What kind of lusers are they? (To take a wild guess, those who think VMS is related to PMS, UNIX is dead, Linux is a nickname, and SPARC is what you get when you try to ignite a firework?) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 6:04 PM Subject: Re: What is the first computer? > > > > >What's a 4004, d00d? I thawt tha first chip was Pantium! >--Brought to you by the United Cracking Force >>> 6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004) >> >>Shame on you! One does not need microprocessors to make a microchip >based >>machine! >> >>William Donzelli >>william(a)ans.net >> >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 6 months

Prodcutivity (was Re: PDP model line / rarity?)

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Win without Intel make either a small frisbee or a coaster for tea. it's a habit of mine everytime I receive free microsoft junk cds in the post at work to see how many chunks I can snip out of the CD before win NT has a complete fit trying to read the contents and blue-screens on me... :) >> However, I read in "Insanely Great" >> that a study had been run in the early 80's that didn't find >> computers to have improved productivity. That I can easily believe. Ok, certain tasks get done faster than they traditionally would have, but overall I don't think things are any quicker when you add up network downtime, system crashes, printing out documents before they can be reviewed, ordering more hardware to cope with the latest bloated apps etc. etc. (before you say it, yes I *know* I'm in the wrong business :) I'd love to hear anything that you come across about that study... cheers Jules (and as for the advent of email... it's terrible for time-wasting at work... ;*) >

26 years, 6 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What's a 4004, d00d? I thawt tha first chip was Pantium! --Brought to you by the United Cracking Force >> 6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004) > >Shame on you! One does not need microprocessors to make a microchip based >machine! > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 6 months

CP/M

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

C'mon. Even I basically know this one. A hard sectored diskette has tiny little holes (IIRC, near the inside), so that the computer would move from one to the next in a mechanical manner (hardware), while MOST soft sectored diskettes had a single hole used for refference. From there, it would just spin around, and control the rest by software. The Apple II, however, COMPLETELY ignored this. It could use hard sectored or soft sectored diskettes, or even diskettes with no little hole at all. It was completely software driven. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 5:44 PM Subject: Re: CP/M > > > > >OK, I know what a track and a sector is, but what is the difference >between hardsector and softsector? >>Allison J Parent wrote: >> >>> <one micro w/5.25" disks be compatible with another with 5.25" disks, >>> <i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3+ can >it >>> >>> Apple is weird with their formats, nearly hardsector. C-128 has a >few >>> compatable and incompatable formats. The rest were all over the map. >> >>Actually, Apple was the _ultimate_ soft-sector, as it didn't pay any >>attention to sector detect at all -- it had to read the whole track >>then figure out where it started. It's a major reason why database >>applications were never a big thing on Apples until hard disks showed >>up -- updating things by record was only possible by writing whole >>tracks. >>-- >>Ward Griffiths >>They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >>Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. >> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

26 years, 6 months

Prodcutivity (was Re: PDP model line / rarity?)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Win without Intel make either a small frisbee or a coaster for tea. You can also make art out of them. However, I read in "Insanely Great" that a study had been run in the early 80's that didn't find computers to have improved productivity. Anyone know more about that? >> hey, wintel machines are great fun - at least in the sense that they're >> amusing due to the terrible hardware and software that's a complete joke >> :) >> >> Jules > >Hire the handicapped. They don't get much work done, but they're fun >to watch. > >(And Intel _without_ Win runs dynamite Linux). >(Win _without_ Intel runs -- well, not much). >-- >Ward Griffiths >They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. >Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. > Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 6 months

Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items

by jfedorko＠virtualadmin.com

I'd almost be interested in a gutted 360 if the front panel was intact! Speaking of big iron, what's the best place to look for DEC10s or 20s? Maybe even a 360/20? I think a 360/90 would be neat but the CPU and cooling would fill my garage. -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [SMTP:william@ans.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 11:33 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items > My problem is not so much distance as it is time. I'd gladly do a week-end > trip to, say, Los Angeles (~500 miles), for most anything, if I didn't have > to spend the time a) working, b) with my dad, c) with my girlfriend or d) > sleeping (ha!). That is why I put in all of those "assumes". I know planning such a trip is almost impossible for those of us that have lives/families/jobs. I just wanted to see just how far some of us would take the hells of the Interstates. Incidently, I do not drive the Interstates much, as there are not many junkyards along them. US routes, on the other hand, have them. If anyone wants a pair of gutted S/360s, I will show them just where along Illinois 1 to find them! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

26 years, 6 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Ultrix was a layer over VMS. Nowadays there is an official DEC Unix Sorry no, I have Ultrix4.2/VAX and it's unix alright. <for the Alpha, though not as good as Linux for that platform. IMAO. I'd be surprized it that were true. DIGITAL Unix has a more mature development path. I also have VENIX on a PRO350, can't tell it from V7 in the 11/73. Allison

26 years, 6 months

Getting further and further OT RE: Couldn't be mor

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Couldn't you take this on some other list? I really hate to say this >> since it is one of my hobbies but this is teariblely off topic. well said - I hate to say it too, even though it's definitely not one of my hobbies and is starting to get rather annoying - this list normally seems pretty good for not having loads of off-topic stuff on it... cheers Jules (rats, now I've gone and contributed to the amount of off-topic posts on this this by sending this... :) >

26 years, 6 months

Getting further and further OT RE: Couldn't be mor

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

CL>At 10:12 AM 6/16/98 -0700, you wrote: CL>>-----Original Message----- CL>>> Well if you want to be exact, the .308 and 7.62mm rounds are two CL>>>different things! .308 is the commercial designation and 7.62mm is CL>>the CL>>>military designation and the two rounds are slightly different. Many CL>> CL>>There are numerous .30 caliber rifles and pistols. I was referring to CL>>the diameter. There is the .30-06 (WW I/II vintage), the .308 (late CL>>50's, early Vietnam vintage, NATO), the 7.62x39 (Russian, Korea to CL>>present), the .30-30 (the famous lever action Winchester of the late CL>>1800s), the .300 Savage (first rifle to exceed 2000 fps, also late CL>>1800s), the .30 M1 carbine (WW II vintage), the .300 Winchester Magnum, CL>>the 7.62 Nagant, etc. All use the same basic diameter .308 bullet. CL>> CL> No, they don't. The Nagant (7.62x 64) has a groove diameter of .310" and CL>uses a .311"-.312" size bullet. The 7.62 x 39 is also an odd size but I CL>don't remember the exact measurement, it's probably also .311"-.312". Some CL>of the US bullet companies are now making special bullets for those two. CL>FWIW When Ruger made the Mini-30 they sized the barrel for the (US) CL>standard .308" bullets instead of the normal Russian ones. CL> Joe CL> Couldn't you take this on some other list? I really hate to say this since it is one of my hobbies but this is teariblely off topic. Thanks.

26 years, 6 months

FW: FS or donate: (2) DEC PDP-11/23 minicomputers, Durham NC

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Well, I don't have a need or want for it, but I do only live 45 minutes away if someone needs a warm body to go snag it. If anything, I might be interested in the 19" rack unit itself, no guts. So, if anyone wants to pick it up, I'm available. At 05:26 AM 6/17/98 GMT, kyrrin(a)jps.net wrote: > ATTN: Rescue folk (with a budget) in Durham, NC: This fellow's got a >lot of decent 11/23 stuff. His asking price seems right on the border of >high, but I'll bet he could be talked down if one is serious about it. > > Contact him directly if interested. Attachment follows. > >-=-=- <snip> -=-=- > >On 17 Jun 1998 03:22:46 GMT, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: > >>>From: biggers(a)gui.modelview.com (Mark R. Biggers) >>>Newsgroups: triangle.forsale,alt.sys.pdp11,misc.forsale.computers.other.systems >>>Subject: FS or donate: (2) DEC PDP-11/23 minicomputers, Durham NC >>>Date: 17 Jun 1998 03:22:46 GMT >>>Organization: MindSpring Enterprises >>>Lines: 87 >>>Message-ID: <slrn6oedi1.su.biggers(a)gui.modelview.com> >>>Reply-To: biggers(a)_no_spam_saiph.com >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38ldc1f.dialup.mindspring.com >>>Keywords: DEC PDP-11/23 >>>X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) >>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c om!207.172.3.49!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mind spring.com!biggers >>>Xref: blushng.jps.net triangle.forsale:4284 alt.sys.pdp11:164 misc.forsale.computers.other.systems:746 >>> >>>FS or donate: (2) DEC PDP-11/23 minicomputers, Durham NC >>> >>>I have for sale or donation a *package* of PDP-11/23 minicomputers and >>>software: >>> >>>* The PDP-11/23 system (all 18-bit, I think): >>> >>> 1 M8186 LSI-11/23 CPU card, MMU but no FP chip. >>> 1 M8059FC 128Kx16bit memory card ? >>> 2 M8044 32Kx16bit memory card >>> 1 M8043 DLV11-J quad serial line controller >>> 1 M8013 RLV11 RL02 disk controller (2 card set) >>> 1 M8014 " " " " >>> 1 M8012YA BVD11YA backplane controller with ROM, clock, etc >>> >>>* The PDP-11/23 PLUS system (looks almost brand-new): >>> >>> 1 M8089 PDP-11/23+ CPU card with MMU, FP and CIS chip sets >>> 1 M8067KB MVS11-P memory, 256Kx22bit >>> 1 8061 RLV12 RL02 disk controller >>> 1 M7957 DZV11-J controller >>> >>> 2 RL02 disk drives >>> 15 RL02 disk packs (10Mb each) >>> 1 bus extension card (pushes the card outside the cabinet) >>> >>>* Other hardware >>> >>> 1 RX02 dual 8" disk drive with controller card >>> >>> 2 4x9 slot card cages, one 18-bit bus, one 22-bit. Both have >>> heavy duty power supplies, fans, power/reset/halt switches. >>> >>> 1 4'x19" DEC rack >>> 1 single height blank panel >>> 4 sets of sliders >>> >>> The rack holds 6 single height modules: the CPUs' card cages >>> are all single height, the disks are all double height. The rack >>> comes with a filtered, remote-switched power distribution panel. >>> >>> National Semi Q-bus 22-bit, 512KB memory bought at TCF in 1990 or so. >>> >>>* Books/software: >>> >>> Old RT-11 (Version 4.1?) distribution on RL02 and RX02 media >>> Includes all kernel sources and macro assembler. >>> >>> Fortran, basic, DIBOL (DEC COBOL) and a few other things >>> >>> Complete RT-11 manual set (3 feet of binders) plus assorted PDP >>> data books and other stuff >>> >>> Complete schematics for an 11/23+ (this is the field set). >>> >>> BSD2.9 manuals >>> >>> My docs are all 1983/1984 vintage, which is fine for the boards I >>> have, but they don't document newer Q-bus stuff. >>> >>>==== >>>> I am asking $199 or BEST OFFER for the package. <<<< >>> >>>It all must go as a LOT -- no piecemeal sales. >>> >>>You'll need a full-size pickup truck, a industrial-grade hand-truck >>>and two strong bodies (hopefully not including mine). >>> >>>I would like to get this equipment to someone who will *use it*, as >>>opposed to someone who wants one board or manual and will put the >>>remainder in a dumpster. The buyer should at least *properly recycle >>>the equipment* that is not needed. >>> >>>Most of it was working when obtained. I saw the 11/23 system booted >>>and running off the RL02s, under RT-11 (in 1991). The 19" rack has >>>been sitting crated since that time (without any computer equipment >>>inside) in the damp basement of my house -- I have no idea of its >>>current condition. Everything else is upstairs, in the way... >>> >>>I'm located in Durham, North Carolina, very close to I-85 (2.5 hours >>>to Richmond VA, 4+ hours to D.C., 9 hours to NYC by car). >>> >>>EMAIL: biggers(a)_no_spam_saiph.com >>> (remove the anti-spam to reply, thanks!) >>> >>>or CALL 919-286-1441 >>> >>>----mark > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net >Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. >I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net -

26 years, 6 months

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test-drb June 1998