I have just returned after a long weekend to find my mail had got set to
Postpone again. This has probably all been said but I thought I'd put
my bit in anyway.
Tony:
< A question occurred to me today : Can you have an embedded analogue
< computer, and if so, how many op-amps are needed to have one?
Allison
> Yes, and that's very common. None, a low pass filter(RC) performs a
> function and can be considered analogue.
A filter made of passive components or otherwise I wouldn't consider a
computer, although I agree it is definitely analogue (Americans may omit
the ue where appropriate).
I would say that an analogue computer:
(a) combines two or more signals
(b) does so in a more complex way than by simple addition or
subtraction. (But this could be A+dB/dt, for example)
An analogue computer need not be electrical at all - quite complex
analogue functions can be implemented in cams, for example. A good
example of a simple embedded analogue computer is the ignition
distributor on a petrol engine. This:
Takes two inputs - camshaft angle and manifold vacuum;
Differentiates camshaft angle to get engine speed (centrifugal
weights on springs);
Applies some non linear function to engine speed (cams attached to
the centrifugal weights);
Adds together camshaft angle, function(engine speed) and constant *
vacuum level;
Compares the result with a reference angle to generate pulses of a
given width for the ignition.
I claim that is a simple (but actually quite sophisticated) analogue
computer.
< I was looking at the service manual for my Micropolis 1203 hard disk, and
< I read the circuit description of the servo electronics. It's a fairly
< complicated array of op-amps, which combine integral and differential
< forms of the position error, positioner current, etc. I would claim that
< is an embedded analogue computer.
> Valid claim, also a good example of a fairly complex function.
Agreed 100% (As Tony would say). An excellent example of an embedded
analogue computer.
Another example is the convergence circuit in a colo(u)r television.
This takes the two timebases as inputs, multiplies them and their
squares/ first derivatives etc. by user settable constants, and feeds
this back onto the deflection systems of the tube.
< On the other hand, I think it would be stretching the definition to call
< a simple op-amp wired as a voltage follower an analogue computer.
> Correct. However often the buffer is between some function or follows one
> so it's part of the analog system.
Agreed it could be part of an analogue computer. But I think Tony's
point was that it does not by itself make one. Otherwise practically
any analogue circuit becomes a computer (One of Vonada's axioms, I
think: All circuits are amplifiers)
> Other analog systems common to computers:
>
> cassette IO (low pass filter on output) and complex filter/differentiator
> edge/peak detectors for input. Some of the acients used PLLs for clock
> recovery (KANSAS City is one).
>
> Analog to digital conversion (quantification).
> Digtial to analog conversion (filtering)
>
> Disk/tape systems have several layers of analog function for data and
> control.
Definitely analogue systems. But some are merely filters, not
computers. (I think a PLL almost qualifies as a computer, though...)
But in general, I agree with you both - analogue computers are often
small, simple and embedded, and they're a heck of a lot more common than
most people think.
Philip.
Anybody ever heard of the following?
KMW Systems Corp.
VP-10 Vector Processor
Its a smallish box (about the size of a small PC desktop box sliced
horizontally in half).
Anyone?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/03/98]
Well, this kind of comes from a rant of mine... ya see, on my computer, I
origionally had an AMD InterWave chip on my sound card, but found that it
was STB made. It was made in Dec. 1996. I called about it in Dec. 1997,
and NO ONE at their technical support knew ANYTHING about it. And that's a
year after it was made!!!
Anyway, lets call, e-mail, fax, walk up and talk to, etc. people at
various companies and talk about tech support, etc. for old OLD products.
(Like calling up IBM... "Hello, I've got this 8" disk here, it was new in
package, and it was not free of mechanical errors. I want my money back!")
Or saying that we found a bug in the 4K MS tape basic, etc. ;-)
And DON'T COPY ANY SOFTWARE. I don't even care if it was made by a
criminal, it gives you no right to do the same.
BTW, I remember seeing copies of DOS 3.3 shwrinkwrapped by this company
for Microsoft. Was this done widely? Where can I find out more? (Kai
Kaltenbach? Know anyone who knows anything about this? I REALLY am longing
for a copy of Windows 2.x, as I've got this software for it... from our
school, even though they can't find hte actual 2.x disks.)
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement
>> >> The party agrees that unauthorized copying or disclosure will cause
great
>> >> damage to MICROSOFT."
>> >
>> >Hey! Let's all start copying Basic 80! Or other Microsoft stuff!
>> >Perhaps we can cause great damage to Microsoft!
>> >
>> >Wait a bit... somehow I don't think we'll do any damage unless we
>> >persuade people to buy our copies in preference to the originals.
>>
>> Oh? You know somewhere you can buy the originals?
>
>I've found some original sealed Microsoft CP/M software by frequenting
>comp.os.cpm. None of the registration cards that I've sent in during
>the past couple years have come back returned from any of Microsoft's
>old Redmond/Seattle addresses, so I assume they found their way to
>the right place (though I've never heard anything back from any bug
>reports on CP/M products.)
>
>Q7 of the comp.os.cpm FAQ provides this address as a non-US source
>of several Microsoft CP/M products:
>
> For our European readers, much is available in Germany. dBASE,
> WordStar 3.0, Multiplan 1.06, SuperCalc PCW, and Microsoft Basic
> (Interpreter and Compiler), M80, L80, CREF80 , and LIB80 can be
> ordered in either PCW format or C128 (also native 1571) format from:
>
> Wiedmann Unternehmensberatung & EDV-Handel
> Hauptstrasse 45
> 73553 Alfdorf
> F.R.Germany
> Tel: +49-7172-3000-0 (Inside Germany use 0-7172...)
> Fax: +49-7172-3000-30
>
> They are marketed as "for the C128", however the disks are in KAYPRO
> IV format, and since the C128 uses the same screen codes as ADM-31
> or KAYPRO, it's probably interesting for people with other CP/M
> machines as well. Everything is said to come with a German language
> manual and each one is offered for DM 149.50 , including sales tax
> of 15%, which you could probably somehow get a refund on if living
> outside the EC.
>
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
I know, I know, when I get a chance. For now;
I found an Anderson-Jacobson 1200 BPS modem (AJ1256). Is there any
thing special about it, or is it safe to throw this back?
This was on the way to a thrift store. There I saw:
TI-60 w/thermal printer for $10,working --fair?
RCA Victor, couldn't tell if it worked, $75, no I won't buy it
IBM PPS II ( I think) form printer - does anyone have any experience
w/ this?
I didn't buy any of the three, but I might get the TI-60.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have one remaining Hewlett Packard 700/44 terminal with keyboard left
to get rid of. Like new shape and in working order, fairly modern.
Emulates other terminal systems like 52, 100, 200 series and HP series,
maybe others.
I need $10 plus shipping on this if someone wants it. I'm sure someone
has a need for one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sam Ismail:
> The party agrees that unauthorized copying or disclosure will cause great
> damage to MICROSOFT."
Hey! Let's all start copying Basic 80! Or other Microsoft stuff!
Perhaps we can cause great damage to Microsoft!
Wait a bit... somehow I don't think we'll do any damage unless we
persuade people to buy our copies in preference to the originals. And
it goes rather against the grain to persuade people to buy Microsoft
stuff at all.
Oh well.
;-) ;-) ;-)
Philip.
Here's an interesting artifact. I got the reference manual for Microsoft
BASIC-80 (version 5) over the weekend and it still had inside the original
non-disclosure registration card that I guess one was compelled to sign
and send in before they could use MS BASIC. This book was distributed
with some morrow system as the card is addressed to Morrow Designs
Software License Department. It reads:
"The party below agrees that it is receiving a copy of MICROSOFT DISK
BASIC or FORTRAN for use on a single computer only, as designated on this
registration form. The pary agrees that all copies of MICROSOFT DISK
BASIC and FORTRAN are owned by MICROSOFT, that all copies will be strictly
safeguarded against disclosure to or use by persons not authorized by
MICROSOFT to use MICROSOFT DISK BASIC or FORTRAN, and that the location of
all copies will be reported to MICROSOFT at MICROSOFT's request. The
party may make up to two additional copies only, for back-up purposes.
The party agrees that unauthorized copying or disclosure will cause great
damage to MICROSOFT."
Sheesh!
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/25/98]
Sorry about this message but I have friend who still uses a
Sord IS 11C. Unfortunately it is now failing.
I saw the message thread you had concerning some units
that were available last year. Could either of you let me know
the availability of a similar device or a person who can repair
these units?
Thanks,
Ivan Calhoun
I promised Sam I'd look this up a long time ago. I had some trouble with
the phone lines, though, which made it impossible to use the modem.
But here it is. I seem to have a preliminary version of the 'Voice Module'
manual, although I did not get the module itself with the machine.
The manual goes into a lot of detail: theory of operation, external
interfaces, architecture... schematics...
I'll quote from the overview:
INTRODUCTION TO THE MODULE
__________________________
GENERAL
The Voice Processor Module, shown in Figure 1-1, provides a fully
integrated voice and data interface between a workstation and the switched
telephone netowrk or commonly used private automatic branche exchange
(PABX) system (supporting Tip and Ring connection). When used with a
digital PABX system, all signals and transmission between the Voice
Processor Module and the PABX occur via analog techniques.
The Voice Processor Module is an X-Bus module containing two
printed-circuit boards. The first board contains a Bell 212A-compatible
modem.
The second board contains the following:
* modular jacks for two telephone line interfaces (FCC, part 68, registered)
* additional modular jack (FCC, part 68, registered) that allows
connection to any standard voice unit (telephone set)
* analog crosspoint switch allowing any device to connect to either line
under software control
* Dual-Tone Multifrequency (DTMF) touch-tone auto-dialer
* DTMF touch-tone decoder that permits numeric data entry via remote
voice unit touch pad
* call progress tone detector
* voice amplifier
* Adaptive Pulse Code Modulation (ADPCM) CODEC (Coder/Decoder) for
support of digitized voice communications at speeds far less than the
normal 64Kbps
* 8051 microprocessor to control all module activities
(...excepts from following specifications...)
Modem board is originate/answer, full-duplex. Supports 212A and Bell
103/113.
DTMF generator generates all 16 DTMF digits, may be programmed to transmit
various key sequences, and can generate single tones.
CODEC and ADPCM technique allows recording/playback of digitized voice
information at 6-kHz (24Kbps) or 8-kHz (32Kbps) rates.
Software support is provided by CT-MAIL, CT-Net, and "Operator" software,
which is specifically tailored for the Voice Module as follows:
* Telephone directory management, which has the ability to add, delete,
modify, and look up entries in a disk-based telephone directory, and
automatically establish calls using the information in the directory.
Menus provide assistance in accessing special functions used by PABXs.
* Voice digitization, which allows the operator to use the CODEC to
record and play back calls or messages. This capability enhances
CT-MAIL, where it is used for voice annotation of written documents, as
well as the inclusion of voice attatchments to textual mail.
* Telephone answering, which allows an unattended system to automatically
answer the telephone and perform a variety of user-selectable
operations ranging from simple messatge playback/recording to input of
numeric data from a telephone touch-tone pad.
There you have it. All typos are my responsibility.
ok
r.
