I took out from the library a sort of collection: 20 years of byte
with some historic articles, ads ,etc. from BYTE's point of view in
1994. I liked the timeline, but the articles are very boring and
technical. One of the IBM ads says,"The IBM Personal Computer starts
at less than $1600 for a system that, with the addition of one simple
device, hooks up to your home TV and uses your audio cassette
recorder" (1982:1p61). Would this one device be a TRS-80?
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Copyrights are valid (those affecting 1960) for 75 years, at least. That's
for whoever made them, assumed them, or what have you. Someone owns the
rights, whether the company exists or not.
> From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: EC-1 (was Re: Re: Computer Values)
> Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 9:34 PM
> At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints
> >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard.
> >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting
> >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by
> >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years,
> Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know
> the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix,
> and a lot of others, and they're still in business!
> >-- Doug
I know this MAY not be 10years yet, but its getting there.
Does anyone know a good place to get ISA and (especially) EISA token ring
cards? (IBM or 100% IBM-compatible prefered.) I figure there must be
someone who's got a bunch they'd love to get rid of. :) I don't want (or
like) any of this new PCI-based junk.
>>2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine,
>>to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training.
>>What was it?
>Doug Engelbart designed a five-key keyboard that would do most of seven-bit
>ASCII by accepting chording combinations. His idea was that you'd always
>run the keyboard with one hand and the mouse with the other.
Sounds cool, but hard to use, especially in a time when to use a computer,
you needed to type at least 30-50WPM (WAM), and spent enough time on a
computer to compute in your sleep!!! That kind of typing can't be easy to
I recently saw a one-handed keyboard, which looked kinda like a MS
Natural Keyboard, with the right hand sawed off, and the numeric keypad next
to the left. It looked like there were a few extra keys, but you had a key
that you held down, kinda like shift, and it would make the oposite
character (like A for H, S for J, etc.)
Tim D. Hotze
Apple Lisa Web Page:
thanks I'll have time in the next day or so to pull the thing apart and
relay back my findings............
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 9:03
Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old
>[IBM PC floppy drives]
>> I get nothing out of them, no motor spin up, no led, no
>I've got the Type 1 drive schematics here (from the O&A TechRef volume 1).
>Let's go through the obvious things first.
>You have a DIP shunt (a little plastic block with shorting bars) in
>socket 1E of both drives, right? And a termination resistor pack in
>socket 2F of the drive physically furthest from the controller.
>Check that the cables on J4 at the back of the logic board are connected
>properly. There are some blank pins (4?) nearest to the edge connector,
>and then P8-P12 in order along the pins.
>Also, check the supply voltages - +5V and +12V at the drive when the
>machine is turned on. You do have the power cables plugged in, I trust
>:-) (don't laugh - I've forgotten them).
>OK, let's sort out the lack of LED first. Unplug the cable from the
>controller (leave it hooked up to the drives) and turn on the machine.
>Ground pin 3 of IC 3E (a 7407) in the drive. Does the LED come on now? If
>so, then suspect the controller, DIP shunt or cable. If not, then ground
>pin 4 of IC3E. If the LED now comes on, then IC3E is defective (or not
>Problem is, if IC3E is defective, then how many other parts have been
>damaged. 7407's are pretty reliable, so if it's damaged, it sounds like
>power problems. You didn't hook up the power cable backwards, did you?
>You can trace the motor on signal similarly. Try grounding pin 16 on the
>edge connector (the even numbered pins are on the top of the board,
>starting from the end nearest to the notch in the connector tongue), or
>equivalently pin 1 of IC3E. If the motor doesn't start,then try grounding
>TP13. If that starts the motor, IC3E is defective. If the motor still
>doesn't start then I'll have to talk you through the motor control board
>at the back.
I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was
pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got
286 and 386 models. Wow!
Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think.
(compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion'
and needs to be connected to another disk module to work.
My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a
'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can
just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't
work on the new system.
Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and
application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd
like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a
less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts
available to press into service for the cause.
Thoughts, hints, suggestions?
I have a Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in operational condition with
the patch cables, assortment of caps and resistors plus the operating
manual. I have entertained selling this (robbing Peter to pay Paul) to
help fund a 1939 pre-war television acquisition. A dilemma. Should I
part with the EC-1 I doubt I will ever find another. As toward the
value of the EC-1 I don't have a clue but would like to know what
anyone else thinks a fair price would be.
______________________________ Reply Separator
Subject: Re: Computer Values
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 5/15/98 5:38 PM
On Thu, 14 May 1998, Marvin wrote:
> a TRS-80 Model 4P and a Coco 2. IMNSHO, the values of all computers will
> vary greatly depending on the knowledge and experience of the person
> doing the valuation. Hmmm, sounds just like *every* other form of
I used to collect coins when I was a kid, and the Blue Book (wholesale
values) and Red Book (retail values) were my bibles. Coins had a pretty
good grading system, and you could find fairly reliable production data.
I don't know of anybody that has tried to do anything close to this for
> I, for one, do like to see what E-Bay is doing. I kept track for a
> while of the people who were bidding on the stuff, and there were a
> number of people there who were collectors. Last year, I was bidding on
> a Sol-20, and the guy who outbid me won the bid at $800 or so. High? I
> talked with the guy later on, and the machine was in mint condition, had
> all the original documentation, and also included some of the
> peripherals. The Altairs that have been sold there are *all* selling
> below the prices I have seen for similar systems.
eBay and other online auctions are probably the best gauges of prices
there are, because they represent fairly efficient markets. In fact, some
online auctions that move their own inventory do regression analysis that
tells them more or less what price they can expect to get for any given
item. If somebody were to do the same analysis on person-to-person
auction data, that would be a very good starting place for a price
guide (especially from an auction like Haggle Online that also stores
condition, make, and model information :-).
If you only look at one or two anecdotal transactions, that doesn't tell
> FWIW, I tend to value my collection in the millions of dollars. And
> that is probably conservative ... if one were to go back in time and
> look at what the stuff cost new :).
The real question is what value does your insurance company place on your
collect. My guess is that they would value an Apple 1 based on a twenty
year depreciation starting with a $666 basis!
BTW, if, hypothetically, I were to find somebody willing to sell me a
Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in good condition, what value would you
experts assign to it, and what would you base your valuation on?
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:03:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
Subject: Re: Computer Values
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I have started to dismantle my System/34 so that I can save at least
the parts until someone can get them. One question is, does
everything in each S/34 plug together the same way? If so, I don't
have to label the cables, which is going to be a looong task.
Also, how should I park/lock the 62 megabyte hard drive?
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