>
>Max Eskin wrote:
>
>> All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance
>> about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you
>> people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM
>> 704s.
>
>My guess is that Max has a bit of Russian blood lines in him to get so
>infuriated ;-]
I was born in the USSR an came here 7 years ago
>> Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its
>> technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the
>> soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US.
>
>Becuase since the breakdown of the USSR they've imported shiploads.
Prior to
>this they were banned from technological advances openly available in
the
>free world, same as the restrictions on obtaining nuclear materials and
bomb
>technology.
Well, nowadays, Windows 95 is almost as easy to get over there as
weapons-grade plutonium ;)
>> a LOT of modern programmers are Russian. Most Russian immigrants
>> I know deal with computers.
>
>If any of us had to consider dealing with jail time for low grades we'd
get
>out act together too.
Jail time? No. Loss of self-respsect? Yes. Nothing the government
can do will get people to learn well. It is a good moral foundation
that most schools here don't teach, and parents don't have time to.
Sorry for the off-topic and anti-US stuff, folks.
>
>Max, I just can't hold this back....I have socks older than that! I hit
>first grade the year JFK was shot. (please no offense, I get the same
from
>those that saw the depression - my parents) You can't judge the US's
>capabilities by a public school inventory either - most have Apple II's
in
[ON TOPIC BELOW]
I meant simply to share the only computer I ever saw in the USSR.
There was a big sign on the wall that said "Turn the computers off
before leaving!". That wasn't meant for us, but I didn't know that,
and I once turned a terminal off. I came back next time, the terminal
didn't. I guess it had volatile ROM or something. In general, I liked
those terminals. They looked very, um, handmade.
>went on. I've disarmed and unloaded stranded Soviet aircraft that were
>forced to land in Iceland for mechanical problems prior to their
repairs.
>The Fixbat, Bear, etc have had panels opened by crews that were doing
>repairs "for diplomatic reasons" while we unloaded their heavy steel
>missiles and I've seen planes as late as 1985 with vacuum tubes and
"solid
>state tubes" in their electronics bays. We had a rectifier from a radio
in a
>captured Soviet tank that made our solid state items in 1970 look like
>microprocessors.
What's wrong with vacuum tubes? You're the ones collecting them :0
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> Hotze wrote:
> Yeah, that's why all the newest Soviet fighters and bombers
> used vacuum tubes
> even into the early 1990's. I'm sure they invented this and
Not so fast, there are very good reasons to use tubes instead of solid
state on certain types of military electronics. Look up "EMP" sometime.
This was a deliberate design decision on the part of soviet avionics
designers. They do have workable solid state devices. In fact, the
later Sukhoi and MiG models had very sophisticated interlocking radars
at the squadron level, a capability US forces do not have. Yes, overall
the US made much better avionics and electronics in general, but when it
was important enough the soviets could produce very good military
equipment. Off topic, but I much prefer Russian assault rifles to US
ones. I keep an AK47 at home, I would not trust an M16. I wouldn't
care to run a business with a Russian built computer though...
Jack Peacock
<What's wrong with vacuum tubes? You're the ones collecting them :0
In their time it was the best technology. But the answer to the question
is, too big, fragile, High power needs, lots of heat and they make lousy
high speed switches (IE binary elements).
As to EMP immunity, not much use if the memory is wiped and less help if
the system is so slow and awkward that reboots are impractical. Vacuum
tubes offer little help there.
As far as I know the Soviet Russins had technology but they were limited
in their ability to translate that to volume product. That combined with
no production capability that wasn't allocated to the military was a mess.
It wasn't for lack of bright people just a messed up system.
Allison
Starting Tuesday I have come across a few nice finds at very low prices,
here is a small sample: Televideo model 910 terminal; NCR workstation
C-256/89 no kb came with it; MicroNet ext HD; Apple tape Backup unit 40sc;
Apple modem power supply M0174; LN03R Scriptprinter Operator guide; HP85;
digital RX02 drive unit model RX02M-EA; Sun tape unit model 511; HP 9121 FD
drive unit model D; HP 82901M; HP 1615A Logic Analyzer; HP 9920A unit;
Fluke 2240B Datalogger; HP 9826; HP 86B;several old Mac KB's for model 128
and Plus; and several other items and manuals. The entire load set me back
$26. Will get around to testing these items someday. Keep Computing John
Tony Duell originally asked this but the group may be interested. The MMD1
8080 trainer was based on a design by Jonathan Titus and Company (Tychon
Inc.) and was apparently described in a series of articles in the May-July
1976 Radio Electronics, however it is also described in "The 8080a Bugbook",
a Howard Sams book (ISBN 0-672-21447-4), 1977.
Tony: the two ROM sockets are for 1702 ROMS. The very simple but efficient
monitor, called KEX for "Keyboard Executive", easily fits in the 256 byte
space of one of these, leaving ROM socket 1 for "expansion".
I don't have access to the original articles on this unit but it was easy
enough to reverse engineer the assembly listing of KEX, below. I'd give
y'all instructions on using the monitor but that would take the fun out of
reading the source listing! i've also stuck the HEX file at the end of the
listing. have fun!
- Glenn
* KEX.ASM
*
* Keypad EXecutive
*
* This is a reverse engineered assembly listing
* of the 8080 trainer ROM. For more information see
* Radio Electronics May-July 1976 issues, also Chapter 2
* of "The 8080 Bugbook"
*
* Glenn Roberts 2/13/97
*
RST1 SET 003010A
RST2 SET 003020A
RST3 SET 003030A
RST4 SET 003040A
RST5 SET 003050A
RST6 SET 003060A
STACK SET 004000A
USERFWA SET 003000A
*
* Keypad equates
*
H.KEY EQU 10Q
L.KEY EQU 11Q
G.KEY EQU 12Q
S.KEY EQU 13Q
A.KEY EQU 15Q
B.KEY EQU 16Q
C.KEY EQU 17Q
ORG 0
JMP START
DS 5
JMP RST1
DS 5
JMP RST2
DS 5
JMP RST3
DS 5
JMP RST4
DS 5
JMP RST5
DS 5
JMP RST6
DS 5
*
* Cold boot entry, load stack and memory pointer
*
START LXI SP,STACK
LXI H,USERFWA
MAIN MOV C,M ; C is value to be displayed
MOV A,H ; Output High byte
OUT 1 ; of memory counter to left LEDs
MOV A,L ; and low byte of memory counter
OUT 0 ; to center LEDs
*
* Loop to process keypad input
*
KPLOOP MOV A,C ; output the value of C to
OUT 2 ; the rightmost LEDs
L110 CALL RDKEY ; Read key from keypad
CPI 8 ; Is it numeric octal? (0-7)
JNC L134 ; no, test for others
MOV B,A ; Temp save in B
MOV A,C ; Get the current working byte
RAL ; and move it left 3 bits
RAL
RAL
ANI 11111000B ; then clear low 3 bits
ORA B ; and insert temp value (B) there
MOV C,A ; then move back to C
JMP KPLOOP
L134 CPI L.KEY ; Was key "L"?
JNZ L345 ; no
MOV L,C ; yes, move working byte to L
JMP MAIN ; and go to top
CPI H.KEY ; Was key "H"?
JNZ L156 ; no
MOV H,C ; yes, move working byte to H
JMP MAIN ; and go to top
L156 CPI S.KEY ; Was key "S" (step)?
JNZ L170 ; no
MOV M,C ; yes, move working byte to memory
INX H ; increment memory pointer
JMP MAIN ; and go to top
L170 CPI G.KEY ; Was key "G" (go)?
JNZ L110 ; no
PCHL ; yes - load Program Counter from HL
DS 65 ; filler
*
* Delay (debounce)
*
* This routine delays for a bit over 10ms.
* Note cycle time is 1.5 microseconds
* Total delay: 62 + (294 * 24) = 7,118 cycles
* 7,118 * 1.5 = 10.677 ms.
*
DELAY PUSH PSW
PUSH D
LXI D,294 ; Number of times to loop
DLY1 DCX D ; Decrement DE
MOV A,D ; and test for DE = 0
ORA E
JNZ DLY1 ; if not, keep looping
POP D
POP PSW
RET
*
* Read a key from the keypad (with debouncing)
*
RDKEY IN 0 ; Read the keypad port
ORA A ; set flags
JM RDKEY ; no key depressed - loop
CALL DELAY ; have key, debounce
RDK1 IN 0 ; Re-read the key
ORA A ; set flags
JP RDK1 ; key still depressed - loop
CALL DELAY ; key released, wait
IN 0 ; Read once more
ORA A ; set flags
JP RDK1
L345 ANI 00001111B ; Only lower nibble of interest
PUSH H
MVI H,0 ; Set HL to point to table
ADI #TABLE
MOV L,A
MOV A,M
POP H
RET
*
* Lookup table for keypad
*
TABLE DB 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7
DB S.KEY
DB 0
DB C.KEY
DB G.KEY
DB H.KEY
DB L.KEY
DB A.KEY
DB B.KEY
END START
:10000000C33800BB3A32D63AC30803318022CD5EF2
:10001000C31003210842CD46C3180323CDEC3D1184
:10002000C320030842CD7041C32803AF328C3A325B
:10003000C33003153B2108423100042100034E7CEC
:10004000D3017DD30079D302CDCD00FE08D25C0070
:100050004779171717E6F8B04FC34500FE09C2E508
:100060000069C33E00FE08C26E0061C33E00FE0B85
:10007000C278007123C33E00FE0AC24800E93B116A
:100080000142017B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601C178D1E18A
:10009000CA263DFE3DC2103DCD7F3DDAE23B21DF69
:1000A0003ACD8734FE2CCC213E21DF3A11FB4101B1
:1000B0007B3BFF2B3A7B3BE601CAC03C21D53AF59E
:1000C000D51126011B7AB3C2C400D1F1C9DB00B738
:1000D000FACD00CDBF00DB00B7F2D600CDBF00DB0C
:1000E00000B7F2D600E60FE52600C6F06F7EE1C944
:1000F00000010203040506070B000F0A08090D0E94
:00003801C7
>
>I seem to recall reading somewhere (BYTE ~1985 ?) that Soviet made CPUs
>(6502 clones?) were so poorly maid that they individually came with a
>list of which instuctions worked and which didn't. Also seem to
recall
>an article on the soviet Apple ][ clone of the time (CPU on a large
>daughterboard, pirated ROM, cost approx US $20,000)
>
>-Matt Pritchard
>Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist
>MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][
All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance
about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you
people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM
704s.
Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its
technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the
soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US.
Lastly, the US scored below Russia in third grade math tests. Also,
a LOT of modern programmers are Russian. Most Russian immigrants
I know deal with computers.
When I was in first grade (1990), we were first led into our school's
new computer room. It had a classroom of terminals (in plywood cases),
and a punched card machine. My young mind could not discern any other
details.
I don't mean to be ridiculous, but please be a bit more careful,
people!
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>
>> All right, I have taken this for a while, but no more. This ignorance
>> about Soviet technology and abilities is ridiculous. I think you
>> people have kept your anti-communist opinions along with you IBM
>> 704s.
>>
>> Although the USSR certainly had ridiculous administration, and its
>> technology was not very modern, there were many advances by the
>> soviet union, and it now has just as much technology as the US.
>>
>
>The soviets always had comparable technology, but were limited by
>inefficient manufacturing and logistics. Those only exposed to western
>design philosophy tend to belittle soviet engineers because of the
>seemingly crude appearance of their equipment, but they had to meet
>vastly different product requirements. Their export market was the
>underdeveloped third world, no infrastructure at all. When your target
>market is some place like Mongolia, Eritrea or South Yemen you have an
>entirely different set of design parameters. There is no Radio Shack
>down the corner, no parts store in town, no UPS delivery service. Even
Why Radio Shack when you have BFI? I can just imagine a fried US
made cell phone flying into a third-world bonfire...that sure would
stink. Another reason why Russian products were build to last was,
very simply, because if you trash your phone, you'd have to get on
a two-month waiting list to get another one.
> Jack Peacock
>
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Found on Usenet. If you want to do some trading, contact him directly.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
From: psthomas(a)nyx.nyx.net (Patrick Thomas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro
Subject: Anyone trade sun->vax stuff?
Date: 15 Apr 1998 04:03:42 GMT
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Hi again, all...
Well, after some four years of absence, my curiousity has again
been piqued. After having to divest myself of my collection of VAX
hardware in my move to the west coast, I find myself interested to
find a microvax or vaxstation again. Even (gasp) a VAXstation 2000, if
nothing else. I have a bunch of Sun 3/60s, and even a an IPC, and
possibly an HP 9000/400 that I'd be willing to part with, if anyone
might be interested. Or I can always go with cash, for those less-
enterprising types. :)
I live in Portland, now, and will pick up anything in the portland/seattle
areas. I also remember how cheap VAXstation 2000s were four years ago,
and I would suspect they aren't old enough to be collectible quite yet. :)
I'd be more interested in something like a vs3x00 or some such.
-- Patrick
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
<> a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ, COMPUPRO and the
<> was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled.
<
<Integrand?
One I'd kill for even now. They designed for cooling and still had an
attractive box.
Allison
> > Some of the better boxes had put some thought to air flow
> and this was not
> > a problem. The Northstar Horizon was good, VECTOR MZ,
> COMPUPRO and there
> > was an oufit that made mostly boxes all well cooled.
>
> Integrand?
The Integrand was one of the best. I still have one of their big S-100
boxes, fans everywhere, monster transformer in the power supply, but
somewhat dificult to use all the DB cutouts on the back.
Jack Peacock
