test-drb March 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

167 participants
859 discussions

by fmc＠reanimators.org

The other day someone re-posted section 2.8 of the FAQ and I thought it might be a good idea to repost sections 1 and 2 in their entirety, as they address what the list is about and what sorts of traffic are appropriate. I didn't write this. Bill Whitson did, and posted it to the list in early July 1977 (thanks, Bill). All I did was snarf it from http://www.heydon.org/kevan/classiccmp/1997-07/msg00028.html (thanks, Kevan). I have no comment on this. I am merely posting it for the benefit of those who haven't seen it before, and those who have, but (like me) didn't have a copy handy and need a refresher to figure out just what is irritating some folks so. -Frank McConnell --- begin included text --- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods if you actually need info on them, not just to show off. 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. --- end included text ---

26 years, 9 months

pdp11s, anyone??

by jritorto＠tsoft.com

Hello folks. I just moved into the SF bay area and found myself terribly uncomfortable without my trusty pdp11, which I had to leave in Pennsylvania due to space constraints. I just now subscribed to this list, so I haven't seen any of the messages lately. My question is: Are there any pdp11s being offered for sale/free anywhere near oakland, ca? thanks for any replies. jake

26 years, 9 months

History of OSs?

by peacock＠simconv.com

>The dos geneology is roughly... > >DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> > CPM-80--> > CPM86--> > dos-1.0--> > >The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. > >DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix >has been an influence but largely not that great. > >UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some >of which even resemble each other. >Allison To add in a bit more.... CP/M comes directly from RT-11 and the RSTS tree. Even the PIP command (peripheral interchance program) was very similar to the RT-11 version of PIP. CP/M had a more sophisticated file system than RT-11, but less sophisticated device drivers. VMS was not the first virtual memory OS that DEC wrote. TOPS-20, for the PDP-20 (that was a PDP-10 with virtual memory) was the first virtual system. TOPS-20 was not the same as TOPS-10, even the system calls were invoked a different way. (My first real systems programming job was on a 20/40, a joy to work on, tho slow by modern standards). Jack Peacock

26 years, 9 months

INTEL PDS-100

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Any idea where I might find documentation for Intel PDS-100? Same place I can find a winning powerball lottery ticket I suppose? Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 3/17/98 12:51 PM <Marty wrote: <> <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Mar17.125113.1767.32401; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:51:14 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id JAA08473; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:54 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id JAA20252 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:38 -0800 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id JAA06258 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:36 -0800 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id MAA17968; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA18685; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199803171740.AA18685(a)world.std.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:40:32 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

26 years, 9 months

AT&T Unix PC 7300....

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I have two one for $30 at Goodwill and one for $15 from scrape dealer. Now the same Goodwill has sold about 10 more complete with mouse and everything for $20 each. Good Luck with yours. John At 04:12 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback >on it? Maybe what a fair price would be? > >Thanks, > >Aaron > > >

26 years, 9 months

PN2400SA

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200. >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re: PN2400SA > > > >>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >>I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >>the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >>reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >>a feeling it's something else. Ideas? >> >Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using >Line and not Phone > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 9 months

by dastar＠wco.com

Message with no relevant information, and especially having nothing to do with this mailing list. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

26 years, 9 months

PN2400SA

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have a feeling it's something else. Ideas? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 9 months

PN2400SA

by peacock＠simconv.com

>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier. >I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and >the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT >reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have >a feeling it's something else. Ideas? > Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using Line and not Phone

26 years, 9 months

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :However, there are 2 things that spring to mind. Firstly Hitachi :were associated with the Compact Floppy disks which are normally :called 3" disks. I've just measured one and : :It's a black plastic case measuring 3+1/8" * 3+7/8" * 3/16" :I've attempted to measure the actual disk through holes in the case, :and it meassures 2.8" in diameter, or thereabouts those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post them for special concessionary cassette rates in japan, we're told - it kept them alive a little while longer than they should have stayed... ;> :Secondly, I've heard of 2.75" disk drives. Some of them were :_sequential_ access - there was no separate head possitioner, it :was driven by the spindle motor. You had to start at the outside of :the disk and read all the data up to the point that you wanted. quick disks. msx used them, as did a few early samplers (roland s10, akai s612(?), etc) and a few other bits. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

26 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 1998