test-drb March 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

167 participants
859 discussions

by engine＠chac.org

At 01:21 3/21/98 -0600, Doug wrote: >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: > >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites You can even throw in "must have stored-program memory" and, bingo, an HP9100 is a computer. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

27 years

Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines)

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> The absolute definition of a computer as I remember >> it goes thusly: >> >> "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without >> the aid of a human." > >That's too ambiguous to me. All computers require the aid of a human at >some point. What's the diff if I pay Bill Gates to program mine or if I >work the slides on my slide rule? The difference is: there's no enter key on a slide rule. You can enter a program into a computer, and once it begins executing it may not require human interference until it has completed. If said program includes both arithmetic and logical functions between the pressing of the enter key and the output, it would fit the definition of a computer. >As for me, whenever I see little chicklet keys on a calculator, that's >enough for me to say it's not a computer :-) Ah, then you have an anti-Tandy bent, he? For the chicklet keys on my CoCo1's preclude it from your definition??? ;-) (And, to continue along this nasty bend in the road, the membrane-only keyboards of the Timex Sinclair 1000 and Tandy's MC-10 make them akin to a microwave oven? ;-) I guess I see a lot more computers than you do! Just my $0.02USD ($0.026CDN), "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

27 years

Delay lines

by jredin＠earthlink.net

Dear friends, I love computers indeed, but behind calculators are almost 400 years of history, so there is a lot of very interesting material to learn and research. Regards, James Redin http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber The X-Number World of Calculators ---------- > From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Delay lines > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:21 PM > > On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Kip Crosby wrote: > > > >> But the calculator collectors have their own lists, don't they? > > > > > >True... I'd just not object to the odd thread on [calculators] > > >particularly if they were historically significant (the HP9100...), > > >technically interesting, or whatever. > > > > Hear, hear! Especially since many so-called calculators were built by > > manufacturers not, for whatever reason, prepared to admit they were > > building computers -- with IBM and HP springing to mind at once. > > I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can > bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't > really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to > restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any > sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this > area). > > Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out > mere calculators? How about: > > * must be programmable > * must be general purpose > * must have alphanumeric input capabilites > * must have alphanumeric display capabilites > > Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you > add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. > > -- Doug >

27 years

Now: Once again, whattheheckisa computer? (Was: Re: Delay lines)

by zmerch＠northernway.net

;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw Doug Yowza typed: >I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can >bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't >really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to >restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any >sort of personality (OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this >area). Uh, and what about that "grey area" of programmable calcs? Not only do they have personality... 1) my trusty Casio programmable calc of 12 years ago that started me thru college, may it R.I.P. is wholly program code compatible with my new(er) 9700 (icon-based screen, 32K RAM)... 2) The TI-59 had not only magnetic card storage, but also a ROM-card library, (at least) one of which was a ROM of games... including an interesting football simulation. but in most (if not all) definitions of a computer, they fit. >Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out >mere calculators? How about: Why? As you seem to be less interested in calcs, it seems many on this list may be as interested, and if they do fit the definition of a computer, why can't they be included? The absolute definition of a computer as I remember it goes thusly: "An instrument which can perform arithmatic and logical functions without the aid of a human." Which to me would: exclude sliderules (tho the thread on here I found *very* interesting and enjoyed), include mechanical / analog computers, (to me) exclude basic / 4-function calcs (some folks think carrying & single-memory storage encompass logical functions... I disagree) include programmable calcs... (heavens, my Casio calc has more memory than my Tandy 200... Goodness!) Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson, the (still) owner of this list. >* must be programmable >* must be general purpose >* must have alphanumeric input capabilites >* must have alphanumeric display capabilites My New Casio fits all these descriptions (but is not 10 years old), my old Casio fits all and is old too, and (with a slight stretch for input) so does my TI-59. >Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you >add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group. By your definition, adding a terminal to an altair would not turn it into a computer... for the computer is only performing I/O on an RS-232. The terminal is doing the displaying. To fit your definition, you would need to add a dedicated keyboard & video board to said Altair... So, you've successfully excluded Altairs, but included Casio calculators... Or is this just an HP vendetta???? :-) Just my (awkward) views... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Owner, MerchWare | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

27 years

oddball find PS/2-50

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Because they are sufficiently off the path of my interests I may trade both of them off. They look pretty neat but, I have no spares and they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not really into collecting PCs. Allison

27 years

Delay lines

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic <delay line, although I've never been sure why. acoustic delay lines, they propagate bits translated to mechanical impulses at the speed of sound in a solid. The resulting delay is long enough to use ans a shift register to store bits. Allison

27 years

information

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

> Videotext never really caught on in the US except on cable TV as a > non-interactive display. I believe there are still a few videotext services > piggybacking on satellite channels. They transmit on one of the unused scan > lines at the top of the picture, similar to closed captioning for the deaf. > > To my knowledge the only truly successful videotext implementation > was the french minitel telephone directory. data piggy-backed on TV signals, using several lines in the blanking interval, is called viewdata. data presented in the same screen format as viewdata, but interactively, over a phone line, is called videotext. Collectively, videotex = videotext + viewdata. The original standards were for 25 lines of 40 columns, in 8 colours. Characters can have attributes like "flashing" or "hidden" (for quizzes), and there are rudimentary graphics using a 2x6 mosaic pattern in each character cell. There are several not-quite-compatible viewdata standards, some of which offer much higher resolution and colour range (the German Bilschirmtext system BTX does this). AFAIK, all the videotext systesm, at least in Europe, are the same, and the BBC and UK independent TV companies all use it for news, programme listings, etc, as do a lot of the european satellite TV channels. UK's PRESTEL, Germany's BTX, France's Minitel, all use slightly different forms. Lots of UK travel agents use a private PRESTEL-compatible system, and at least a couple of banks and building societies here use the same standard for home banking. A few UK bulletin boards used to use the same format, and I think one or two still do, for nostalgic reasons. You can get two or three host systems to run on machines like BBC Micros. There's a web page somewhere devoted to this old stuff, but I can't remember the URL (if anyone really wants it, I'll look). There are BTX and Minitel emulators for X-windows, and I have a PRESTEL terminal emulator package for X-windows (works well but still needs a bit of tidying up) which AFAIK is the only free PRESTEL-compatible one for unix systems. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years

Northstar S100 compatability

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Now I'm going to consider voltage wrt the machine ground i.e. the bottom <of the transformer winding, not the tap. Also on NS* there is an option to not make the metal chassis DC grond to the logic. So ground must be the backplane ground. I suspect Tony has a possible solution, miswiring of the secondary. <I don't know where you are in the UK (can I conclude from your machine <name that you are near Peterborough?), but if you think I can be of any <help, please e-mail me. I have some generic S100 docs (although nothing <N* specific - if you get anything, I'd be interested in seeing it), and a I have a full set of NS* docs but I happen to be on the wrong side of the pond. The PS schematic is pretty trivial. Tony had the design of the +/- 16v correct. If you open the power supply up to see the transformer leads 2,3 and 6 are conneted to ground and common. For the +/-16 leads 5 and 7 go to the bridge rectifier. For the +8 leads 1 and 4 go to the really big diodes mounted on the L-shaped bracket. The 8900uf cap should have -16 to -22v across it and the 11000uf cap +16 to 22v. The largest 180,000uf cap should have +8-10v. Allison

27 years

Time/Date stamper

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I remember hearing a trick about soaking a printer ribbon with WD-40 to revive it. YMMV of course. david In a message dated 98-03-20 20:03:00 EST, you write: << I recently picked up a time/date stamper from the trash. It is a box with a slot, and when a paper is inserted, the paper is stamped. The first year on the stamping drum is 1951, so I assume that's when it was made. It uses a cloth ribbon for ink. How do I reink it? Also, the stamping has impressed the numbers into the rubber platen. How do I get rid of that? >>

27 years

Heinz Nixdorf

by jredin＠earthlink.net

Dear friends, I'm recollecting information for an article I will write about the transition of electro-mechanical calculators to electronic calculators during the 60's. I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24). I haven't been able to obtain more information on these calculators. I suppose this is because Nixdorf moved soon onto the computers technology (eventually joining with Siemens). As a reference, I posted a copy of the Nixdorf article in my web site at the following address: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber/chistory.htm Information about the Anita can be found at: http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber SECTION: VINTAGE CALCULATORS --> ELECTRONIC --> ALBUM --> Anita Any information on this subject will be appreciated. Regards, James Redin ----------------------- [1] Bruce Flamm, "The World's First Electronic Calculator - Who Made It?" The International Calculator Collector - Fall 1996, Issue #14.

27 years

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test-drb March 1998