Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:35:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Ethan Dicks <erd(a)infinet.com>
To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Call for final Elf99 design input
Message-ID: <199811252135.QAA10978(a)user2.infinet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I wrote:
> So to me, being 1802-based and being cheap/easy
> would be the big attractions. If I could populate the entire board
> for under $20, that would probably be enough to pull me off the
> fence entirely.
To which Ethan Dicks replied:
] $20 in total parts cost is not feasible. The CPU is under $10, the RAM
] can be scavenged, the 4xxx parts scavenged or bought for <$1 each, but there
] will be at least 8 to 10 of them. The displays are between $15 and $20 for
] the pair. Switches are another expense - 12 toggle switches and a pushbutton.
]
] Cheap it will be, but not quite that cheap.
Okay, I was only thinking about the cost of chips. And $20 is not
any sort of magic number, just something that seemed possibly doable.
Mainly, I would just ask you not to require any hard-to-find $10 parts
in the name of authenticity, if an easy-to-find $0.10 part will do as
well or better. The only really important bit to me, as a software
geek, is the 1802.
Of course, this is just my vote. I'll be more likely to buy if the
cost is low, and authenicity doesn't mean much to me in this case.
Cheers,
Bill.
I debated whether to post this; I'm sure some of you have seen it before.
My apologies for wasted bandwidth and all...
Q: How many classiccmp subscribers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: 1,331:
1 to successfully change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that
the light bulb has been changed
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light
bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light
bulbs.
53 to flame the spell checkers
156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb
discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list.
41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames.
109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take
this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb
203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and
alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped.
111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light
bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list.
306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to
buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this
technique, and what brands are faulty.
27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs
14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected
URLs.
3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this
list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list.
33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers
and footers, and then add "Me Too."
12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot
handle the light bulb controversey.
19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ.
1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup.
47 to say that [as long as the lightbulb or fixture is greater than ten
years old] this is just what this mailing list was meant for, leave it
here.
143 votes for a new list alt.lite.bulb.
Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant."
I'm hoping someone knows about this (Don?)...
I got a parts-only Kaypro 4 from John Lawson yesterday, to try to cure the
ills of my "nice" 4. However, the two machines are quite different:
The one I got from John has the built in modem, a serial port, and both
paralell and serial printer ports; my original one only has a paralell
printer port and a serial port. Also, my old one has 2 eproms on the
board, one labeled 81-146 in socket U43, and one with a label "Specialty
Sys / STROKE.232 / Rev:1.5 08/84" in socket U47. Don Maslin hadn't heard
of this configuration before, so I'm assuming that it's some kind of
custom design. The one I got from John only has one eprom, labeled 81-292.
The new machine also has a 3v battery on the mainboard. The drives are
different too; the old machine has 2 full-height drives while the one from
John has 1/2 height drives. Part number of my old unit (from the back of
the case) is 81-004 and the part number of the one from John is 81-015.
Now, I happen to like the nifty one with the build in modem better. But
the video is fried (I said distorted yesterday, but there's nothing
legible on the screen) - there's only a little "noise" in the center of
the screen and an extremely high-pitched whine/screech coming from the
general areal of the video P/S.
So what I did, handling everything with [rubber] kid gloves, was swap the
CRT and boards, while leaving everything connected in the process. And I
got...nothing at all on the screen! I plugged the old mainboard in to the
new powersupply and connected it to the video and viola - perfect! So,
what gives? I noticed that some of the crystal frequencies are different
between the boards - is this what's causing it? Is there something simple
I can adjust to get the new machine to work with my original CRT
components?
Also, any history/explanation about the differences in the two machines
would be much appreciated.
Aaron
Thanks to the dedicated work of Kenneth W. Melvin, who has translated
the first three original Popular Electronics ELF articles to HTML, the
articles are now available via the "Classic Computer Simulator" link on
my web site. Hopefully, he will be supplying the 4th installment to me
in the future as well. Enjoy!
-Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com)
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer
Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.)
I saw two shrinkwrapped boxes of Windows 3.0 at a thrift store a couple
of days ago, a WordStar training guide (a modern version), as well as
some Gateway 2000 manuals. Anyone want any of this if it's still there?
That is, Edinger and Main, in Santa Ana.
The best route to the place is to take the 55 freeway to
Edinger, get off and head West for about 1 mile. There is
an eatery on the corner (SW) called the Golden Basket (as
I recall) and ACP is just a few hundred feet West.
William R. Buckley
-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Santa Ana ACP Store
>PG Manney wrote:
>>
>> I'm gonna be in Orange County over Christmas. What's the address of that
>> place?
>
>ACP is located on E. Edinger, and IIRC, it is located at 1310 E. Edinger in
>Santa Ana.
>
>> btw, anyone in O.C. who wants to meet and talk about old computers?
>
>Unless something unexpected happens, both John and I will be at the TRW
swap
>meet on December 26th. It starts at 7:00 am and is over at 11:00 (no
>transactions permitted after 11:30am.) Weather permitting, I usually go on
>the transmitter hunt there starting about 11:45 or so, and then out to
>brunch about 12:15 or so. Aaron joined us yesterday, and provided a good
>chance to talk about the older computers!
Okay, if anyone's interested, I got the data from my old tape back from Tim.
Among other things, there are some interesting pieces of software, all of them
about 10 years old, which some of you may be interested.
If anyone is interested, please send me personal e-mail and I'll include
the file you want, plus the appropriate archive/dearchive software.
And btw, yes the descriptions are the ones that were on the BBS to describe
each piece of software, so they do tend to be talking to beginners.
I have for the pc:
*******PC-VT*******
This file is an archived vt100 full emulation system. It includes a terminal
mode, xmodem and kermit uploads/downloads a help screen, and a readme file.
You will need a blank 5 1/4 inch floppy (or about 360k free on a 3 1/2) and the
PKXARC program found elsewhere on this board to dearc this program successfully.
This program courtesy of Concordia Computer Services, along with the author or
authors who chose to make it public domain. To start PC-VT, type PC-VT at the
A> prompt.
procomm 2.4.2
This program is another (and vastly superior) terminal emulator. It is window
driven, supports most major upload/download protocals and has color. It also
works more reliably for uploads and downloads than PC-VT. There is, of course,
also full vt100 terminal emulation.This particular version is configured to run
at 9600baud with all settings proper for this VAX system. Reconfiguration is
done from the menus.
***********PKARC***********
This program is a public domain archiver. It crunches other programs with
multiple modules into a single arc file, which is then simple to upload or
download. It will be the standard arc protocal used on the IBM board of this
BBS, so when you upload somthing, please pass it through this program first.
This program itself is not archived, nor is it's companion de-arcing program,
PKXARC, so that you will be able to de-arc the programs you receive. This
program contains a help screen.
*********PKXARC********
This program is the companion program to PKARC. It is unarchived, but you
will need it to de-arc most of the files on the IBM board. It includes a help
screen, and should be self explanitory.
for the commodore 64:
arc250
This program is a self-documented archiving and dearchiving program for the
Commodore 64. It is slow, but it does work.
vt100
This program is a self-contained vt100 emulator for the c=64. It uses the
commodore key with the function and number keys to make symbols not on the 64
keyboard. Works only with TPU editor. (the one we use for the BBS)
Origionally downloaded from Q-Link tm.
macread
This program is unarchived and allows the user to view .mac picture files on
the c-64.
for the commodore 128:
vt-100v2a
A real slick vt100 em for the c=128. Uses fast and burst modes. U/dloads.
Supports EDT. This is a self dearcing file, load and run. Docs Follow.
vt-100v2adocs
These are the docs that go with vt-100v2a. This is a C=128 self dearcing file.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:42 AM, Allison J Parent wrote:
> The VIP had a ram card, rom card, IO card and a sound effects
> card.
There is also a 2716 Eprom programmer card (I have one _somewhere_, along
with a 'System Expansion Board') and a color video card. There were _two_
sound cards; 'Simple Sound' and 'Super Sound'. Now if I could only FIND
my expansion and Eprom programmer cards... ;-)
Al McCann
amc358(a)interserv.com
I'm gonna be in Orange County over Christmas. What's the address of that
place?
btw, anyone in O.C. who wants to meet and talk about old computers?
manney
>> > I took a trip down to Los Angeles today, and stopped by the Santa Ana
ACP
>> > store. As I looked around the store, there were some classics sitting
on
Would this be caused by an electrical surge through the device or an EMP
kind of like in a nuclear explosion?
>Worse still, it can damage
>semiconductors all over the instrument!
>-tony
>
