"David Williams" <dlw(a)neosoft.com> wrote:
> Also, anything on a DS200MC terminal server?
Assuming you mean a DECserver 200/MC, I was using these in 1988, so
I'd guess that they're acceptable for discussion on this list, or will
be soon enough.
As you wrote, it's a terminal server. Eight RS-232 ports with enough
modem control to support most asynchronous communications needs, and
an Ethernet port for connection to your LAN. As I recall there is
enough firmware in the thing to request an executable image via DEC's
MOP protocol, pick one responding host to download it from, and once
that image is downloaded (via MOP) and running, to do terminal and
printer service via DEC's LAT protocol. They do not do TCP/IP-suite
protocols, though later models of DECserver may.
Hence you can plug terminals, modems, printers, or computers into the
RS-232 ports, and set them up so that either they connect to other
computers via LAT, or so that other computers (or other terminal
server ports) can connect via LAT to "services" associated with the ports.
Generally speaking, they're not real useful outside DEC environments,
but are very useful there.
-Frank McConnell
First off, though not quite 10 years, I'd love to find an affordable 3.5"
ESDI hard drive in the 100-500mb range for my PS/2 model 70 lunchbox.
Second, Does anyone know when the various hard drive interfaces were
developed? The ones I can think of include:
MFM (early 80's?)
RLL (late 80's?)
SCSI (late 70's?)
ESDI (?)
IDE
any others? Thanks...
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see
>one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few
>months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3
>or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer!
I'm assuming you mean the different case design - over here (South
Australia) they seem to be as common as the old breadbox sort, but I
suspect that in numbers they are slightly less than the older designs. I
have three of them, and I only wanted the one. As far as I know there are
no functional changes, although Commodore had a history of working out
ways to make systems cheaper, so there may be a difference internally.
I did find one old C64 in a third-party case which looked very much like
the C64c, though. Interestingly enough it was made here - I would have
picked it up, but I shy away from collecting computers based on the
different cases, as there are too many to collect just based on the
different systems themselves, and space is limited.
Adam.
What did you expect? I mean, it was in the lake, with moving water all
around it, fish, plants, and lord knows what else brushing aginst it, and so
forht. The perfect form of data preservation is probably punched tape, or,
ROM (not EEPROM!) with the data on it. It would be cool to see a drive that
read ROMS, or, if you put a "blank" one in would burn it for you. Of course
that's only good for a few K, but for text, that should be sufficent.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
> At 11:49 AM 1/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >discolored. There should be a better way to compost them...
> >Allow enough O2 there, it will decompose and oxidize better.
>
> What do you think about CD-ROMS? I hear they have have a much longer
> capacity to hold data, as opposed to 15 years for VHS tapes in average
> conditions. Would UV be the major factor in CD-ROM deterioration?
Actually, the sealer on that side of any cdrom label side is pretty
easy to scratch, once that happens, the life is really shortened!
The shiny layer is aluminum. I heard of someone who threw a
favorite cd into lake in frustration, but few years later, found it
again, it's ruined.
Jason D.
>
> - John Higginbotham
> - limbo.netpath.net
>
>
>
Yes, actually, there are a couple of companies that do that. (Only recycle
computers) They take PC's or Macs. They're currently mostly only used by
corporate managers trying to find a green way to get rid of their Windows
3.1 machines, but they get paid a little in return. They're trying to
become more home-orginized, but the word needs to get out. They report that
2% of the weight of a 3 year old computer is dust!!!
As for what happens with landfills, I've heard that studies show that
it's the plastic. (I'd guess that it like forms a bubble covering the
newspapers, etc. blocking out all air, etc.) That would make it
near-perfect preservation, even into tripple or, even quad digit numbers.
Near the bottom, there's more air.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: I don't believe this ****
>> > > >>computers been contacted by someone that wants to dispose of your
>> > > >>collection as scrap? Talk about insulting!
>
>Yes, that was completely tactless on their part. Maybe if they collect
>something like Hummels, perhaps you should have offered to grind them up
>to make spackle.
>
>> > You guys know that I agree with your sentiment 100%. That said, I'd
>> > rather see the systems melted down for scrap (assuming it's a
reasonably
>> > efficient and environmentally safe process) than to see them go into a
>> > landfill. I can't imagine how many beautiful systems are rusting away
>> > under 3 million tons of garbage someplace. I don't want to see them
>> > scrapped either, mind you, but given the choice....
>
>I agree here, and for the most part, the majority of computers end up
>being recycled, either in the U.S. or abroad.
>
>I have nothing against the scrappers, other than those that flat out
>refuse to deal with the collectors. It is VERY efficient (something like
>98% by mass get recycled now - CRTs and some photocopier parts are the
>only stumbling blocks), and frankly, one can make a good living at it.
>What one can not make a good living at is refurbishing them - they just
>get devalued too fast.
>
>Lets face it, we can not save it all. True, we should try to get the
>goodies into the collector's hands so they survive. Often in makes more
>sense to try to resell a system than to scrap it (like the TT030). For the
>most part, however, computers (and other electronics) probably should be
>scrapped. For example, one place I deal with in Kansas City (and now
>Chicago) has a roomful of IBM Series/1 minicomputers all humming away.
>Eventually, they will get decommissioned. If I were a scrapper and won the
>bid for them (sometimes the bid just means picking them up!), I would keep
>one for myself, one sripped down for spares, and offer any others to
>members on the list (or the collecting community in general). If those
>latter ones do not move, they would get scrapped. This applies to just
>about anything, PeeCees, VT100s, ES/9000s, C64s, etc. - with the exception
>of the special machines (_old_ machines, prototypes, high demand
>collectables, etc.). Obviously, the day I scrap a S/360 will never come.
>
>William Donzelli
>william(a)ans.net
>
>
<Never moved a LA-120 so fast in my life... Oh, my boss heard what happene
<When asked "when they fix th' 100, you want me to swap it back?", the ans
<was a brief "Nope!". I actually have one of those "evil" LA-100's.. Glad
<my dislike for th' thing..
Little history since I was in that group. The LA120 was the longest
running hardcopy printer dec ever made. It's hallmarks were rugged as
hell, ugly print quality even through 8 copies of NCR paper! I used to
call it the paper punch as to do 8 copies you had to really punch it.
Inside DEC it was the preferred hardcopy console.
I also happen to have a LA100RO and as a wide platten printer of later
design it was pretty good. It also was spec'd to 6 copies thick.
Allison
For the longest time, when I was very young, I thought those movies were
made in black and white because everything WAS black and white. Crazy, huh?
At 01:38 AM 1/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I know, I like to have both choices anyway because I'm curious what
>colors looked like at that time also enjoy the b/w for it's quality.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
I saw a DECWriter II today near the trash. It was a typewriter-style thing
bolted to a table. I didn't stay around long, because there was a security
camera watching (what are they for above the trash anyway, for god's sake?). I
couldn't have dragged it away, or put it anywhere, anyway. So, what did I
miss?
classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subj: Re: Wtd: ESDI 3.5" hd + hd ?'s
Tony Duell wrote:
!> MFM (early 80's?)
!> RLL (late 80's?)
!> SCSI (late 70's?)
!> ESDI (?)
!> IDE
!>
!> any others? Thanks...
!
!I can't help with dates, but there are a lot of others :
!
!SASI (forerunner of SCSI)
!SMD
!HPIB :-) (Seriously, HP did make large-ish hard disks with an HPIB interface)
!Massbus (?)
!
!And the custom ones :
!Shugart SA4000 (one 50 wire cable)
!Shugart SA1000 (50 wire control cable, that could be shared with 8" floppy
!drives, and a 20/26 wire data cable)
!DEC : R80 (almost SMD, but different enough to give you headaches!),
!RK05, RL01, RK06, etc... Doubtless other manufactures had similar custom
!interfaves
!Diablo 30 (almost the same as RK05, but not quite)
!Micropolis 1200 (either the raw 50 wire interface, or the formatted one.
!There was a standard Micropolis controller for the latter)
Well - now that the discussion has turned to disk drives and such I would like
to ask in general (not necessarily to Tony in particular): where might I be
able to find either an ESDI or a SCSI controller for the Q22 bus in a
MicroVAX II? Shop names and addresses in the Bay area would be especially
helpful but I am perfectly happy to look elsewhere (even DEC). Alas, the
recently mentioned organization with a web page at http://www.dda.org/dda.html
apparently does not list any hardware (not even if you "subscribe"(?)).
Thanks to the efforts of a member of this list I am now the extremely happy
owner of a uVAX II with three RD53 bootable drives (Ultrix 1.2, 2.1, &&
VMS 5.4 - the latter (c) 1990 and not strictly classic software :=}). At any
rate, I would like to up the disk capacity of the machine by a fair amount and
install a decent C compiler (Under VMS I am currently limited to DCL and MACRO
as the only programming languages - oddly I have both FORTRAN and PASCAL verbs
in my DCLTABLES but no such images under SYS$SYSROOT.)
A big thanks to this list for information already provided as well as that
anticipated.
Peter Prymmer
I have a Heathkit H-8 computer in working order with documentation,
software, terminal (H-19), disk drives that I no longer use. I'd like
to find someone who can make good use of this equipment.
It would be helpful if you can handle shipping costs but everything is
negotiable.
If you are interested, please send email or call 408-881-3489.
--Bill Hall
