This is just information. I completed a reference tool that accomplishes
most of this for computers built between 1950 and 1979. It's called Domestic
Commercial Computing Power Between 1950 & 1979 (DCCP). It doesn't include
statistical data, but it does list every make and model of computers built
or sold by North American computer companies. It was self-published, but
you'll find reviews in upcoming issues of the Annals, Analytical Engine,
and the CBI newsletter. It's not available on the web and I have no plans
for that, but I am trying to make a CD version that would include
photographs, commercials/promotional video clips, sales literature, etc.
We could use a similar tool for the years 1980 onwards for commercially
available computers, but also for military computers, industrial control
computers, programmable communication controllers, etc.
Yours in good faith.
Kevin Stumpf
------------------------------------- I'm working on my signature file.
I just started paying attention to garage sales this month, because of
this list and because my traditional computer supply (Salvation Army) has
dried up. I'm very glad I have! Last weekend was my first trip out,
but I only managed to find two sales (one of which was in the paper) but
this weekend the garage sale season seems to have begun in earnest.
There were only two sales listed in the paper for my little town, and one
of these was just up the street and around the bend, so I went there
first. I ended up buying an Apple /// for $2 and carrying it home on my
bicycle! (Not an easy task). I then went back for the cheap green Amdek
monitor for another $2, because I have far more computers than monitors.
I had to ask if there were any disks to go with the machine, and I was
handed a box that I went through until I found one with a label that read
"Apple ///", so I knew the disks matched the computer. There were no
manuals.
After plugging the thing in at home and finding that the beast worked, I
went out again. I must've visited five more places (by following signs on
telephone poles) before I came across the next thing that was mildly
interesting: a Commodore filing cabinet with the chicken-lips logo. Not
exactly related to this group, I suppose, and not the kind of thing I
collect, but interesting nonetheless.
Several stops later I hit the jackpot. Not for me, so much, but for a
friend of mine who is out of school, out of work, bored, and constantly
coming over to my place to play video games on my computers. :) This was
obviously the home of a computer nerd like myself, as there was a complete
Apple ][+ clone system and a complete Commodore 64 system for sale, as
well as a large box full of books.
I picked up four books: "The Explorers Guide to the ZX81", "Timex/Sinclair
Interfacing", Jim Butterfield's "Machine Language for the Commodore 64,
128, and Other Commodore Computers", and the "Commodore 64 Troubleshooting
& Repair Guide".
I also picked up a complete(?) boxed GEOS 2.0 set (which probably
should've stayed with the 64 system, come to think of it) and the owner
parted out the joystick for his Apple ][+ (mine fell apart years ago).
Total cost was $10.
I rode straight home from this place, called my friend, and had lunch. He
showed up with his car, and we went back to that place together to pick up
the C64 system. He got a boxed C64 (old brown one), boxed 1541, 1802
colour monitor, dot matrix printer with Commodore serial ports on it, 1351
mouse in box with docs, 300bps modem in box with docs, a couple of books,
a hand-killing Atari joystick, a boxed copy of Atarisoft's "Track and
Field" with 3-button arcade controller, and datasette, for $35.
Then we went over to the next town, because there was supposed to be some
huge 40-family sale at some apartment complex, but there wasn't anything
interesting there (perhaps everything was gone by then).
I spotted a sign for another garage sale on the next street, so we walked
over there. There I picked up an Intellivision with 6 boxed cartridges
(Sea Battle, Vectron, Sub Hunt, Utopia, Chess, Armor Battle) and a BIZARRE
piece of IBM equipment: an external 5-1/4" floppy drive, model 4869.
I figure someone important must have an opinion on the Commodore 64,
because there was an earthquake (4.5 on the Richter scale) while we were
setting it up to test it. :)
Anyway, not everything was perfect. The Intellivision doesn't work
100%... background graphics are OK, but most of the games have totally
munged sprites. It looks like the sprites are being read out of the wrong
area of memory. Oh, and background graphics ARE screwed up in Sub Hunt as
well... not that it really matters, as all of the docs for that game are
in German for whatever weird reason. :)
There was NO useful software for the Apple ///, only something called
"Apple /// Utilities" that let me make a backup of itself. There was also
an incomplete copy of Pascal 1.0.
Going by the info I gleaned from checking out the system config saved on
the Utilities disk, the system was set up to have two floppy drives and a
hard drive, but I saw no signs of any extra stuff at the garage sale.
There are TWO Apple /// Profile I/O boards in the machine, though, as well
as a parallel printer card.
The power supply of this machine makes a LOT of noise. Is it supposed to?
I found out that there is a monitor built into the machine, too (press
Control-OpenApple-Reset) but apart from dumping memory eight bytes at a
time and the ability to change the values stored in bytes, I can't figure
out if the monitor can do anything. Some of the hardware is very Apple
][ish, though... when romping through memory with the monitor, I of course
stumbled into $C000 and beyond, and the speaker sounded in the correct
place, and the screen switched to high-res mode.
Is this thing just a glorified Apple ][ with an incompatible OS?
I took the machine apart, too, and I found a place for a battery on the
motherboard, with no battery or battery cover in it. Does the /// have a
system clock?
Oh, and it has 256K, and the chips are neat little brown chips with gold
plates on their backs. 4164s. They look just like the ones in my weird
PET expansion board, except that the pins aren't gold.
I heeded the warning sticker and didn't open the power supply. :)
There was a loose screw, and another spall flat piece of metal, roaming
about inside the keyboard. :/
Does anyone know if the Apple ][+ or //e can be made to read/write Apple
/// disks in any manner that would be useful for getting files to it? Or
do I have to get software for it in actual disk form at first, before I
can get the thing to do anything useful?
Can the /// emulate a ][?
Now, on the subject of that weirdo IBM 4869 disk drive... what does this
plug into? The guy I bought it from said it was for an old PC. It has a
37-pin connector on the end of its cable. It's LARGER in two dimensions
than even a Commodore 1541 drive. Its power switch is very high quality.
:) Would this be a 160K drive? I haven't ripped it apart (yet) to see
how many heads the thing has.
Pretty cool day, though. It looks like I'll be doing this quite often in
future. :)
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
At 04:09 PM 6/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Your lovely machines (whichever they are) live *only* because there
>someone (you or another human person) to make it work and appreciate the
>results. They *only* live in your (or somebody else's) mind. And that is
>why their history is important because it's not their history that we
>appreciate but the sentiments, feelings, joy and sadness of the people
>who used them!
What yer saying then, is, that we should collect to remember the impact each
computer had on our individual lives and on the lives of the people around
us, rather than simply because a machine is physically attractive,
technically impressive, or financially successful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Dear Friends,
There is no desire from my part to start another flame war (but a
discussion, yes) but in answer to the many that have expressed (here or
privately) their total disinterest for the *meaning* the *history* and
the *culture* behind our collections may I ask them to consider what
their machines would mean without somebody behind (or rather in front)
of them. Machines are just pieces of metal and plastic. They mean
something because they are related to the minds, fingers, emotions,
life, behaviours and destinies of the people behind them. YOU love so
much that piece of hadware for what it meant to you (or to somebody else
you are related with), to your life, to your history of for it meant to
the history of mankind.
So I am asking *you*, lover of the hardware to reconsider your thoughts
and ask yourself what would your collection mean without all of the
above. I, for one, will be glad to learn that you had second toughts
about this. In either cases it could be useful to read here your
motivations.
Thanks
--
================================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K.
tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile
website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi>
================================================================
visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>
Ok, here it is.
Mike Westerfield, the guy with the AIM65s, phoned me yesterday and we
spoke about the deal. He has been offered $125 for EACH unit from a
company called Dynatem which still uses the AIMs commercially. Mike
started a company way back with a product based on the AIM65. It was an
insurance rate calculator. In order to make the product marketable, he
designed a plastic and a metal-base enclosure. He also placed a compact
power supply inside the enclosure to make for a nice complete package.
He apparently was very successful with this venture and sold many. At
this point, unless someone comes along and offers him more than $125 per
unit and buys the whole lot, they are going to Dynatem. That's too rich
for my blood.
After explaining all this to me, and after I explained what we do here
on classiccmp, Mike mentioned that he had a bunch of other stuff that we
might be interested in. He has a whole basement full of stuff he would
like to sell off. Here's what he told me he has:
EPROM burners
Logical Devices GangPro-S and GangPro-2S. These can burn 32 chips at a time.
These also have other features which make them very nice.
Logical Devices GangPro-8 and GangPro-4 which can burn 8 and 4 respectively.
Optical Technologies EP-2A-88 and EP-2A-89.
EPROMs
A "ton" of NEC-2716 and Hitachi 2716 EPROMs
He also has the line on hundreds of Panasonic RL-H18 palmtops. This is a
palmtop which came out around 1985 and had FORTH in ROM. It also has a
20-col (or 40-col?) thermal printer and a case which bundles the two
together. His company also developed an expansion "tray" which houses
extra memory that the Panasonic can access through bank-switching. He
sold this product to (I believe) an insurance firm and now they want to
dump them all. Now again, he said they have hundreds, and were just
going to shit-can them, but he said the company would most likely opt to
get some money back for them if they could. He said probably about $10
per unit would get them, but they'd have to be purchased in one shot.
Now I don't think that there are enough people here with an interest to
buy one. I suggested that perhaps they can set aside a couple hundred
and then shitcan the rest because I don't have a couple thousand lying
around in which to buy all of them, nor would I want to. It's up to us
to come up with a proposal.
As far as dealing with Mike, I asked him contacting him. At this point,
he would perfer the current arrangement whereby I am the central point of
contact because it is easier for him. However, this tends to put me in a
bad spot for certain reasons. I'm sure there will be people interested in
working out a bulk deal with him. To those people I say feel free to
contact him since he is most interested in getting rid of everything in
one shot. He's not interested in dealing with onesies and twosies. So
he would like for everyone who has an interest in a little here and a
little there to contact me about it and then he's going to call me again
in a week. This would refer mainly to someone wanting one of the
panasonic's or a few EPROMs. As far as the Panasonics, he's finding out
more information about quantity and we will talk more about price next
week. As far as the EPROM burners, I would think that dealing directly
with him would be best.
Anyway, his e-mail address is Mikeooo1(a)aol.com. He's a very nice guy.
He offered that if there was anyone in New Jersey (I believe there is at
least one person here, I can't remember his name) to come on down to his
place and he'll show you through all the stuff he has.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
At 04:11 PM 6/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I think that there is no need to get vulgar. If that is the general
>feeling I apologise and widthdraw my question. Sorry
There is no "general feeling". We are not the Borg. We are a bunch of
individuals with differing opinions and attitudes. You are one of us, I am
one of us, each of us is one of us. Some are more vocal than others. Take
what is of use or of interest to you, and ignore the rest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Greeting:
I am located in central Nebraska, USA, and am looking for the following to
add to my collection. If you have these systems or might be able to get
them for me at a reasonable price, PLEASE e-mail me.
MSX computer
Colour Genie
TI 99/4a
I am also looking for any old classic software for these types of
computers. My specialty is the TRS-80 Model 1,3,4 computers. I am
especially interested in TRS-80 and Apple ][e games at this time. If you
would like a complete (65 page) listing of all my hardware and software
available, please send me your mailing address. If you would like it
immediately, please send $3 to the address below to cover shipping
charges.
Well, thanks a lot for your time, and I look forward to hearing from
fellow collectors. Remember, I am always buying, selling, and trading.
CORD COSLOR
Archive Software
//*=====================================================================++
|| Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE ||
|| (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 ||
|| Classic computer software and hardware collector ||
|| Autograph collector ||
++=====================================================================*//
At 06:43 PM 6/21/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I accept that....but you are such a big country. Isn't it about time you
>start looking outside and try to understand other cultures? (no offence
But we are a country of other cultures. My father came over from Germany as
a boy. My mother was of english descent (going back to Ann Boleyn and
Katherine(?) Howard, two of Henry VIII's wives). My sister is an honorary
Nigerian. My girlfriend is Russian, French Canadian, and who knows what
else. Her sister-in-law is a philippina. Some of my best friends include
jamaicans, scotsman, irish, french, german, native american, japanese,
chinese, aussies, South African, eritrean, and so on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
And don't forget the Workslate from Convergent. It was the slickest laptop
around in 1984. Small LCD screen but built in voice digitization and voice
mail system! No disk, only min-cassette.
Kevin
>From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com>
>Subject: My current For Trade/Wanted List
>--------------------
>Wanted:
>Commodore PET dual floppy system model 2040
I would suggest looking for a 4040, they are compatible with the 1541
as the 2040 is, more 4040s were made, and you won't have to worry about
getting DOS 1.0 ROMs (which should be upgraded) The single drive
equivelant to the 4040 is the 2031.
Larry Anderson
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