On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Mr. Paul E Coad spake thusly unto us:
> This raises the question of how people got into this hobby. Was it
> a single event or something which happened over time (with or without
> you being aware of it?)
Well, I'm not sure whether there was a single event that got me
started (other than an offer of my original Nova 1210), but I can
honestly state that there was an event that made me get serious about
the preservation of older machines.
That event was my missing the acquisition of a PDP-15 by about a
half-hour in 1987. I had expressed an interest in the machine, and was
told that it was going to scrap _very soon_, so I should grab what I
wanted. I was going to try and make arrangements to get the machine
picked up (it was fully configured and quite large) and get the machine
home. I arrived (hurriedly) to do an initial disassembly and triage
on the system, only to find that the bone man had come earler in the
hour, and all that was left of the system was an empty space where it
once was. I knew then that -15s weren't very common, and when I realised
that the count had just dropped by one, I was fairly beside myself.
Other than that anecdote, I've been collecting for about 10 years
or so; my stash is fairly well focussed on minicomputers, although I
do have the odd micro here and there. Minicomputers are where I desire
to keep my energies, especially those of DG manufacture. With DG, at
its' peak, being only 1/5 the size of DEC those machines are pretty
hard to come by nowadays. Any leads, of course, would be vastly
appreciated. :-)
While I'm greatly pleased that folks are preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
| From: A.R. Duell[SMTP:ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk]
| I wonder how many others on this list don't even own a non-classic
| computer?
Depends on how you define "computer". Even my surround sound processor
has a 80 MHz 40 MIPS 24-bit DSP with more than 64K of RAM on-chip. Most
of our cars have sophisticated engine management computers.
I mentioned to my wife the other day that my Pentium Pro has more
transistors (5.5M) than the entire rest of my antique machine collection
and other household items put together, _including_ her Pentium machine
(3.1M).
Even subtracting the Pentium chip, the Pro still has enough transistors
to make about 83 PC-XT's and who knows how many Altairs.
On the other hand, we all still have a bunch of Z80's even if we don't
collect classics. Zilog has a huge family of Z80 processors for IR
remotes, keyboard controllers, IDE hard drives, PCMCIA,
televisions/cable boxes, voice memo units, serial ports, etc. I
wouldn't be surprised if the average American owned half a dozen Z80's.
Kai
Speaking of getting started, my next door neighbor who is retired and in
his sixties and I were talking the other day, and I mentioned that I would
kill to be retired. He asked me just what I would do with my time. I
mentioned that I would probably spend every waking moment on my atari
writing programs. He looked interested and wanted to go take a look. He
has never owned a computer, and can't afford an expensive pc, and what I
showed him on my atari just blew him away. He now wants to buy an atari and
get started in the world of computers. I am now on the active alert for an
atari system for him. It's neat to see someone that hasn't ever owned a
computer get interested especially on one of the older computers. He was
even happy about the fact that you could connect it to a tv, and not have to
shell out hundreds of dollars for a monitor that you can't use on anything
but the computer. I think these classic computers are great to learn on and
now they can be picked up for a very reasonable price. Of course, I miss
being able to go down to the local store and pick up what I needed, but
there are things still out there, it just takes a little longer to find.
I got started when I went to visit my uncle in california in 1981 or
82. He had an atari 800, and after playing a few games, I asked him how you
make a game. He pulled a sheet of paper out of the basic manual, and told
me to type this in exactly as it is printed. I did, and two hours later, I
had an american flag on the screen. I couldn't decide whether you just type
and type and whatever comes up, you just enjoy it, or if these people
actually knew what they were doing. Before I had even received my atari, I
had magazines laying around, and had just about figured out how to program
before I had even gotten the machine. I bet I really pissed off that u.p.s.
guy stopping him every day asking if I had a package. That started my
career in computers, and now I program for a living. I still own my atari,
and use it often. I didn't start as a classic collector, I started as a
classic user, but through time I have ended up as a classic collector.
If anyone comes across an atari, or atari equipment that they don't
want, I will be more than happy to give it a good working home. To me it
feels like stepping into a time machine and rolling back the clock to my
high school years to be able to sit down and use my old machines. Of
course, back then I didn't have any bills, and had 3 months off in the
summer. Maybe that's why I keep using my atari.
Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance.
idavis(a)comland.com : Feeling the flow.
indavis(a)juno.com : Working it. Working it.
On 11-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>I assume you realise that a CoCo2 disk drive + controller will work.
>That's what I currently use.
Actually, it's just that I've not run across the drive and/or controller
yet. I recall seeing the items years ago on the clearance shelf of a local
Radio Shack, and could kick myself for not picking them up...then again, I
didn't have a CoCo at that point either. It brings to mind that I saw a whole
bunch of TRS-80 bus mice for the Model 2000 at the military exchange in
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba about 1990 or so...long after they became hard to find
here in the U.S. I had just gotten rid of my Model 2000, so didn't bother
picking any of them up either.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 12-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>Hmmm. Y'know, if that portable really is built up from a standard PC
>motherboard with the video connector in a card slot, you could (if you wanted
>to) change the motherboard for a newer one and have all kinds of fun.
The biggest hurdles would be the 8-3/8" CRT (measured bezel-bezel) and the
power supply inside. If one wanted to upgrade the CRT as well, you'd have a
hard time finding a modern one to fit, or you'd have to go with an expenisve
LCD, which would destroy the appearance that it was still the orginal machine.
Also, given that most XT-clones tended to ship with 135-150W power supplies,
and the early IBM's shipped with even less, you'd have a hard time running a
newer board on one. I tried a few years ago with a 386DX-40, and it didn't
like it at all!
>Yeah, I know this is a collecter's item probably, but with PCs upgrading is
>my first instinct. I don't even want to talk about how much that's cost me
>over the years.
Your idea isn't any worse than turning the orginal Mac's into aquariums,
which seems to have a bit of a following! At least you're talking of keeping
it a useful computer. I know the feeling about the upgrade-mania
though...it's one of the things that turned me away from the PC, though I have
two now, including the portable.
Jeff Jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
On 11-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>The Full-screen editor & other stuff were in 10K Rom, with the Basic in
>another 8K Rom, totalling 18K.
I wasn't aware that the editor for Basic was in the OS Rom...I stand
corrected. Still, to think that the game cartridges either were confined to
the 8k space or they somehow bankswitched to allow larger programs, I find
interesting.
>Of course, there were 3rd party upgrade boards that would up the memory to
>256K to be used as a Ram drive or as a printer buffer... How many people
>you know nowadays who are hacking their 486/Pentium machines to be able to
>use over 5x more memory than it's supposed to???
A friend of mine had his Atari 800 upgraded to 128k I believe. It required
a bit of soldering on his part to incorporate the bankswitching scheme the
manufacturer used. He also had a 'Happy' chip and any number of other things
added to it as well, having bought the machine new in the early 80's and
continued to use it for quite a few years.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
Help! I was promised an Osborne Executive a couple of weeks ago and was
getting psyched up to get it for nothing other than the shipping costs,
then at the last minute the guy said his wife wanted him to keep it.
Anyone else have an Osborne they can part with? I have never owned one
and would love to get it and pamper it. Any model will do, just would
like it to be in good working order and in good physical shape. Any
diskettes would be appreciated also.
Thanks!!
Jeff R. in Texas
rottman(a)juno.com
On 11-Apr-97, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote:
>When I look at the software (and hardware) of 10-15 years ago, I realise
>how far _down_ we've gone since then.
Very well put Jim! I know my Amiga 3000, which is my everyday system,
doesn't fit into the realm of this group (being roughly 6 years old), but it
is far superior to modern systems when it comes to usability and efficiency.
That is one of the reasons I appreciate the early micros so much....it's
amazing what was done by programmers and such in such tight constraints. Take
for example the Atari 800...this is a 2mhz 6502 cpu with 48k RAM and a full
Basic, with full-screen editing, in an 8k ROM. This system amazes me at the
animations and such I've seen on it at times. It's version of Frogger is
great, and I typed in a Basic program from 'Compute!' that displayed the Atari
logo with 128 colors onscreen at once. I think modern day systems could still
learn quite a few things from the earlier ones.
Jeff jeffh(a)eleventh.com
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago
// -------------------------------------------------------
\// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware,
\/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Collector of classic home computers:
Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore
C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X,
Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A,
Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4.
Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles.
Our local Goodwill has an old Bernoulli drive. Looks like a dual drive
that takes two 10 meg disk (or was it 5 meg?) cartridges that are about
10" square. Includes 1 disk. Anyway if this sounds interesting to
someone, I could snag it and ship it for cost. (probably $5 + shipping)
Greg
Several weeks ago, through a contact made here, I offered my Xerox 16/8
system to a fellow Canadian who lives in Saskatoon, and to whom I had
previously shipped a set of manuals for the TRS 80 Model 16. I never heard
if they arrived. And I can't get a reply to an e-mail from him so I'm
assuming he's incommunicado or uninterested.
So - I'm going to follow the suggestion made by our worthy founder and offer
it here.
I wish to dispose of my Xerox 16/8 system which is just sitting idle packed
away in it's original cartons. I'm not interested in selling the system.
It's free to whoever wants to pay the shipping charges. Can't beat the
price. But it's take the lot or take nothing!
It comprises:-
Xerox 16/8 Professional Computer system:-
1 Display Unit.
1 Rigid Drive + 5.25" Floppy Disk Expansion Module.
1 Keyboard and Mouse.
2 Shoe boxes full of 5.25" 360k diskettes, some original, some
copies, about 200 or so disks altogether.
Manuals, All in original covers and in excellent condition.
1 Operating System Reference Guide.
1 Technical Reference Manual
1 CP/M 80 & CP/M 86 Operating Systems Programmer's Information Manual.
1 Operations Manual.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Programmer's Reference Manual.
1 Business Graphics Reference Guide.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Reference Guide including:
1 - User's Guide &
1 - Macro Assembler Manual.
1 CP/M 80 & CP/M 86 Operating Systems Handbook.
1 MS-DOS Operating System Handbook.
1 Business Graphics Handbook.
1 dBase II Manual.
When I received the system from my vendor, last summer, I assembled it and
it worked beautifully. But I needed the space in my computer room for my
heavily upgraded Coleco-Adam which was my first computer. So the Xerox had
to be stored away and I'm concerned it may be deteriorating in my unheated loft.
So, either the Xerox continues sitting up in the loft, or someone wants it.
The problem is I live on Vancouver Island which means that shipping these 4
heavy cartons, 3 for the computer and 1 for the books and disks, could be
expensive. Even by bus. That's how they came to me from Vancouver.
I weighed each of the four packages that comprise the Xerox and it worked
out like this:-
Expansion Module (hard and floppy drives) weighs just under 35 lbs. I called
it 35#
Display unit weighs just under 35 lbs. I called it 35#.
Keyboard and Mouse weigh just under 10 lbs. I called it 10#
And the books and disks weigh just under 40 lbs. I called it 40#.
I also have a Kaypro Technical Manual covering the Kaypro 2, 2/4, 10. 2/84,
2X, 4/84, and ROBIE systems that I don't need.
Anyone interested can let me know by e-mail.
Cheers.
David Cobley.
Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech
and Hewlett-Packard Echoes.
Internet-dcobley(a)island.net, or,
davidc(a)macn.bc.ca
