At 03:51 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote:
[much interesting introduction snipped]
>In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art
>from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a
>more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation
>of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample
Hi! An anecdote for you... When I was in high school, one of our little
gang of computer hoodlums managed to come up with an ascii printout of a
naked woman. During lunch, we hung it up behind the pull-down projector
screen. When classes resumed, we were (naturally) giggling like mad about
how witty and clever we were to have not only obtained this delectable bit
of naughtiness, but also at outsmarting the teacher.
Well, he (the teacher) figured out something was up, and inquired about it.
Somehow he learned of our devilry and went over to check it out. Well,
rather than tearing it down and punishing us, dirty old man that he was, he
promptly rolled the screen up and left it hanging there for all to see!
Ah, to be young again...
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
I'd like to introduce myself to the list.
I maintain the somewhat imaginary "Jefferson Computer Museum" at
<http://www.threedee.com/jcm>, which has info about my several
Terak systems. The Terak was a PDP-11/03-based graphics workstation
circa 1978-85. My "Terak Museum" web page is the proud recipient of
the "Geek Site of the Day" award for October 16, 1996.
I also have historical info about the UCSD P-System, including an
emulator, source code and very early Pascal compilers. In the months
to come, I will add info about other systems I have, including a
Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system, CBM PET and NEC systems.
I've also been given permission by Claus Giloi to distribute the
C source to his Windows-based Altair and IMSAI emulators. If you haven't
seen this, it's a nifty graphical recreation, letting you click on
the toggle switches to drive the emulator and watch the LEDs blink.
In the years to come, I'd like to enhance it to include virtual
peripherals, or with inexpensive recreations like an opto paper
tape reader.
Recently, I've been researching the possibility of reviving old
audio cassette tape storage of computer data. With today's PC
audio digitizers and a little software, it should be possible to
decode and synthesize tapes in formats such as Tarbell tapes for
S-100 systems, 88-ACR, Commodore PET, VIC and C-64, Bell 103
recordings, etc. A software approach would have several
advantages: you don't need the original hardware, and it has
a better chance of restoring out-of-spec data.
A little digging revealed the "soundmodem", a driver for Linux and DOS
that is a software-based FSK modem that can handle 300 to 9600 baud
in real-time using a SoundBlaster as the digitizer / DSP. It is
used by ham radio operators.
To experiment, I digitized an old wobbly CBM PET tape and did a bit of
post-processing in contemporary sound software and it normalized the
volume quite well. I suspect with commercial audio software, one
could even invoke filters to remove print-through.
At 22 or 44 kHz mono 8-bit samples, there's certainly enough
headroom to distinguish these relatively slow-speed signals. I'm
sure with some formats, just watching the zero-crossing timing would
work. I wonder if this technique could be used to rescue old N-track
reel tapes that have become unreadable over the years, by intercepting,
digitizing, and post-processing the tape-head signal.
What would help the most is to get specifications for the old
standards. I don't have any documentation, although I'm digging through
the basement to find my old Kilobauds. I sent an e-mail
to Don Tarbell, who is apparently still on the Internet, but
no response so far. It would also help to see more samples!
If you have any old cassettes, please consider digitizing them
and sending them to me.
In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art
>from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a
program that converts teletype-style overstrike art into Adobe Illustrator
documents, which are easy to re-size and print on today's laser printers.
I have dozens of pictures from DECUS tapes, but I'm always looking for
more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation
of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample
of the entire printable font from an ASR-33 teletype, in order to
scan and convert it into an authentic Postscript bitmap font.
- John
At 12:48 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote:
>The Rainbow, Pro series and DECmate 2 are very easy to pull to bits,
>agreed. I once dismantled one on a train, much to the amazement of the
>people sitting near me.
ROTFL! Only you, Tony, or at the very least, you first among equals.
____________________________________________________________
Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage
http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches
Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!
<They're still going. Their modern stuff is not _as good_, but it's still
<very well built. Oh, and the electronic design is up to the same high
<standards.
there is some truth and a fair amount of fiction. Some of the older
stuff was overbuilt and it cost. The Barco had everything out front
for a reason, when was the last time you have to converge a new monitor?
Some of the older stuff that was a fairly common adjustment. Alos how
much of the stuff made before say 1983/4 would pass FCC/DOC/TUV RF
radiation requiments.
Some of those new cases that come off easy are even RF tight, no small
trick. Years ago it was box in box construction to get that. Some things
in racks are still expensive as the racks and the system then support
collectively have to be RF tight without being airtight.
In addition you pay for weight, in shipping, cost of materials and
sometimes time to produce.
Now for a reality check. The last generation of transistor computers were
fairly small. PDP-8, PDP12 being examples. All that quality. Well one
of the itelms in that are a plastic/ceramic packaged transistor used in
heaping piles. Electrically a decent enough device for the time and cheap
too. One little problem, the transistor die is glued to a ceramic pad
then wire bonds from the leads to the die and a drop of epoxy to enclose
the component. Problem, epoxy is not hermetic and the bonds go from the
affixed die to lead posts via they epoxy and as things heat and cool
sometimes the forces are great enough to lift the lead right off the die.
The result is transistors that work when cool and quit when warm. Needless
to say that case design would disappear after a few years. Why use it to
build a computer? Well in the 60s it would take say 10,000 of them and
the same part in a metal case was several times the price as in $0.25 VS
more than $1.00. It was the best option at that time.
An aside for the crazies like me. If a straight-8 were built using modern
surface mount transistors and components to the same electronic printset
and current multilayer board and packaging techniques it would shrink by a
factor of 5-10 without resorting to ICs not available at that time. The
only challenge would be the core memory (the raw cores would be hard to
find and expensive to assemble). Electronic packaging and construction
has undergone considerable advancement and is more than wrapping metal or
plastic around it.
Some items like the cheap screws were also common with a few altair kits
when MITS was having trouble. Or some of the other near vapor machines.
I may add that I can buy a minitower box with PS these days for well under
$100 but at the time of the altair the RAW cabinate from the vendor like
that one was well over $100 and you still had to cut holes in it and fill
it. I may add the Altair (8800) box was actually pretty flimsy compared
to IMSAI or the later Horizon, Vector MX or CompuPro boxes.
Allison
<in, regardless of how long it was produced. Were the others you
<mentioned all produced for more than 2 years running? Sometimes I
All of them were over two years. How about PDP-11s manufactured for
over 25years and the older members are easily 20+ years old yet some
members of the line are near impossible to find. Like Ford falcons they
were cranked out but that doesn't mean they still abound.
<"Really" think that the only place you'd find more attitude than in
<this group would be in a flock of "Valley Girls".
It's New York Girl to you!
Bottom line, despite some peoples wishes the owner of the list has set the
standard and it's reasonable enough to work well. Leave it alone.
Allison
From: bill_r(a)inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
<How about making the rule something to the effect of "Systems older
<than 20 years, or which were actively produced for less than _x_ (2?)
<years running" ? Too complicated? At least it would cover almost all
<of the "unique" machines. If they were made for more than 2 years,
Really. Lets see the LINC was over twenty years ago and made for more
than two years. There are very few of them. Back then (64-66ish) a
couple dozen were a lot of any machine! It would also eliminate the
Altair, Imsai, KIM-1, PDP-8 and a few others.
It doesn't work.
Allison
At 09:04 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to
>be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic
>analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal
>either.
Wellll....I wouldn't mind a fastener that gave me the choice, like some
kind of knurled goodie with a screwdriver slot. That would cover the case
where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my
computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't
own a #2 Phillips.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
At 01:39 PM 11/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, I am probably going to get yelled at...
>
>> Okay.... recently, there's been lots of "off-topic" stuff going on here
>> about computers... but I think that it's not "off-topic."
>
>In my opinion it is. There are lots of good, smart people on this list
>that can help everyone with modern(ish) equipment, but there are also lots
>of them on other lists and USENET.
I agree. I even think that there are better sources of info on the
day-to-day operation of things like an Atari ST or Falcon (which I have)
than here. If you want to know how to copy disks under CP/M, you'll be
better off in comp.os.cpm. Which is not to say that such a question would
necessarily be unwelcome, just not as well answered. Better might be
"Where/who should I ask about formatting CP/M disks?"
Mind you, I've answered PC questions posed to a Land Rover list (and
suffered through discussions of florists in Oregon and which guitars are the
best (I like Fenders, if I could afford one) on the same list.)
>> if you remember, in the "welcome" message, it
>> said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10
>> years or older would do.
Well, 10 years is kinda arbitrary (and probably rather recent at this
point.) Still, gotta do it somehow. My personal guideline is
non-mainstream stuff (non-pc and non-mac) unless it's something really weird
(like the Outbound laptop or the IBM PC Radio.) Still, that keeps it to
>10yrs for almost everything except the occasional oddity.
I wouldn't, fer instance, bother mentioning the Sharp PC-7100's or Compaq
lunchbox here, even though they're probably 10yrs+ (Sharps for sure.)
(Except, of course, as part of a larger discussion on the history of
portable computers.)
In any case, as with any such list, the decision and definition really
belongs only to the list owner (Bill Whitson in this case) no matter how
much he might solicit or be affected by input from list members. (And, of
course, we all have the option of setting up our own DOS-PC-Collectors or
whatever list if we want.)
Personally, I'm not all that into DEC stuff (though a PDP 11/70 was my first
and I thought it was great) so I wouldn't mind seeing less VAXstationery
this or DECwindowshades that messages, but I wouldn't think of suggesting
that others not post them. I just delete them (sometimes even without
reading them -- Sorry!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Found on comp.sys.tandy
Greetings:
I have acquired a pile of boxes from an estate sale. Numerous old
computer pieces-parts that I thought might be of some value, but I
don't know where to 'advertise' them -- and now they must go.
Included are
computers - TI & Radio Shack, some in perfect condition -- one is
in a heavy steel case, RS keybd, could be home brew from misc
parts but I can't tell, could it possibly be a stock TRS 80?
software - cartridges & 5 1/4 floppies
printers - are ribbons & print heads still available?
ref books - old, specialized, probably junk
monitors - USI, PI2, mono, unfamiliar connectors
{also 2 non-computer antiques: 1) an old Associated Press
linotype machine, with ribbons, very heavy. 2) 3M copier.}
chips - small, many, stored in plastic tubes
LNW Research products - look like large keybds but may be
more than that -- one box is different as follows
You should see this manual, it is beautiful. Yes, Virginia, there is
such a thing as an Antique Computer. Wish it had a date in it; ref is
made to a CA sales tax of 6%. "System Expansion for the TRS-80 [pc
board & user manual] w/ serial RS232C / 20mA I/O
floppy controller
32K bytes memory" (awesome)
etc....
Found a date. Guess! Answer to follow at signature.
So please, somebody, send me a clue, what can I do.
Anyone know an address where I can list these? Are old puters
so plentiful as to not have any value as collector's items?
Thanks much.
---mikey
DON'T PEEK THE1ANSWER9IS8DON'T1PEEK
Found on comp.sys.ti
I have a couple TI99/4As, an expansion box with a disk drive and other
stuff (very heavy), another disk drive, and some carts that a coworker
was going to throw away. I live in Gilroy, CA and work in San Jose,
CA. Anyone interested?
Bostone1
Bostone1(a)aol.com
