test-drb November 1997

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

126 participants
546 discussions

Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:51 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote: [much interesting introduction snipped] >In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art >from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a >more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation >of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample Hi! An anecdote for you... When I was in high school, one of our little gang of computer hoodlums managed to come up with an ascii printout of a naked woman. During lunch, we hung it up behind the pull-down projector screen. When classes resumed, we were (naturally) giggling like mad about how witty and clever we were to have not only obtained this delectable bit of naughtiness, but also at outsmarting the teacher. Well, he (the teacher) figured out something was up, and inquired about it. Somehow he learned of our devilry and went over to check it out. Well, rather than tearing it down and punishing us, dirty old man that he was, he promptly rolled the screen up and left it hanging there for all to see! Ah, to be young again... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

26 years, 8 months

Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I'd like to introduce myself to the list. I maintain the somewhat imaginary "Jefferson Computer Museum" at <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>, which has info about my several Terak systems. The Terak was a PDP-11/03-based graphics workstation circa 1978-85. My "Terak Museum" web page is the proud recipient of the "Geek Site of the Day" award for October 16, 1996. I also have historical info about the UCSD P-System, including an emulator, source code and very early Pascal compilers. In the months to come, I will add info about other systems I have, including a Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system, CBM PET and NEC systems. I've also been given permission by Claus Giloi to distribute the C source to his Windows-based Altair and IMSAI emulators. If you haven't seen this, it's a nifty graphical recreation, letting you click on the toggle switches to drive the emulator and watch the LEDs blink. In the years to come, I'd like to enhance it to include virtual peripherals, or with inexpensive recreations like an opto paper tape reader. Recently, I've been researching the possibility of reviving old audio cassette tape storage of computer data. With today's PC audio digitizers and a little software, it should be possible to decode and synthesize tapes in formats such as Tarbell tapes for S-100 systems, 88-ACR, Commodore PET, VIC and C-64, Bell 103 recordings, etc. A software approach would have several advantages: you don't need the original hardware, and it has a better chance of restoring out-of-spec data. A little digging revealed the "soundmodem", a driver for Linux and DOS that is a software-based FSK modem that can handle 300 to 9600 baud in real-time using a SoundBlaster as the digitizer / DSP. It is used by ham radio operators. To experiment, I digitized an old wobbly CBM PET tape and did a bit of post-processing in contemporary sound software and it normalized the volume quite well. I suspect with commercial audio software, one could even invoke filters to remove print-through. At 22 or 44 kHz mono 8-bit samples, there's certainly enough headroom to distinguish these relatively slow-speed signals. I'm sure with some formats, just watching the zero-crossing timing would work. I wonder if this technique could be used to rescue old N-track reel tapes that have become unreadable over the years, by intercepting, digitizing, and post-processing the tape-head signal. What would help the most is to get specifications for the old standards. I don't have any documentation, although I'm digging through the basement to find my old Kilobauds. I sent an e-mail to Don Tarbell, who is apparently still on the Internet, but no response so far. It would also help to see more samples! If you have any old cassettes, please consider digitizing them and sending them to me. In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art >from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a program that converts teletype-style overstrike art into Adobe Illustrator documents, which are easy to re-size and print on today's laser printers. I have dozens of pictures from DECUS tapes, but I'm always looking for more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample of the entire printable font from an ASR-33 teletype, in order to scan and convert it into an authentic Postscript bitmap font. - John

26 years, 8 months

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:48 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >The Rainbow, Pro series and DECmate 2 are very easy to pull to bits, >agreed. I once dismantled one on a train, much to the amazement of the >people sitting near me. ROTFL! Only you, Tony, or at the very least, you first among equals. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

26 years, 8 months

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<They're still going. Their modern stuff is not _as good_, but it's still <very well built. Oh, and the electronic design is up to the same high <standards. there is some truth and a fair amount of fiction. Some of the older stuff was overbuilt and it cost. The Barco had everything out front for a reason, when was the last time you have to converge a new monitor? Some of the older stuff that was a fairly common adjustment. Alos how much of the stuff made before say 1983/4 would pass FCC/DOC/TUV RF radiation requiments. Some of those new cases that come off easy are even RF tight, no small trick. Years ago it was box in box construction to get that. Some things in racks are still expensive as the racks and the system then support collectively have to be RF tight without being airtight. In addition you pay for weight, in shipping, cost of materials and sometimes time to produce. Now for a reality check. The last generation of transistor computers were fairly small. PDP-8, PDP12 being examples. All that quality. Well one of the itelms in that are a plastic/ceramic packaged transistor used in heaping piles. Electrically a decent enough device for the time and cheap too. One little problem, the transistor die is glued to a ceramic pad then wire bonds from the leads to the die and a drop of epoxy to enclose the component. Problem, epoxy is not hermetic and the bonds go from the affixed die to lead posts via they epoxy and as things heat and cool sometimes the forces are great enough to lift the lead right off the die. The result is transistors that work when cool and quit when warm. Needless to say that case design would disappear after a few years. Why use it to build a computer? Well in the 60s it would take say 10,000 of them and the same part in a metal case was several times the price as in $0.25 VS more than $1.00. It was the best option at that time. An aside for the crazies like me. If a straight-8 were built using modern surface mount transistors and components to the same electronic printset and current multilayer board and packaging techniques it would shrink by a factor of 5-10 without resorting to ICs not available at that time. The only challenge would be the core memory (the raw cores would be hard to find and expensive to assemble). Electronic packaging and construction has undergone considerable advancement and is more than wrapping metal or plastic around it. Some items like the cheap screws were also common with a few altair kits when MITS was having trouble. Or some of the other near vapor machines. I may add that I can buy a minitower box with PS these days for well under $100 but at the time of the altair the RAW cabinate from the vendor like that one was well over $100 and you still had to cut holes in it and fill it. I may add the Altair (8800) box was actually pretty flimsy compared to IMSAI or the later Horizon, Vector MX or CompuPro boxes. Allison

26 years, 8 months

FS: Jupiter ACE computer

by rkneusel＠post.its.mcw.edu

I'm auctioning off my Jupiter ACE: http://kreeft.intmed.mcw.edu/auction.html Let me know if you have any problems. - Ron Kneusel rkneusel(a)mcw.edu

26 years, 8 months

Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<in, regardless of how long it was produced. Were the others you <mentioned all produced for more than 2 years running? Sometimes I All of them were over two years. How about PDP-11s manufactured for over 25years and the older members are easily 20+ years old yet some members of the line are near impossible to find. Like Ford falcons they were cranked out but that doesn't mean they still abound. <"Really" think that the only place you'd find more attitude than in <this group would be in a flock of "Valley Girls". It's New York Girl to you! Bottom line, despite some peoples wishes the owner of the list has set the standard and it's reasonable enough to work well. Leave it alone. Allison

26 years, 8 months

Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: bill_r(a)inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) <How about making the rule something to the effect of "Systems older <than 20 years, or which were actively produced for less than _x_ (2?) <years running" ? Too complicated? At least it would cover almost all <of the "unique" machines. If they were made for more than 2 years, Really. Lets see the LINC was over twenty years ago and made for more than two years. There are very few of them. Back then (64-66ish) a couple dozen were a lot of any machine! It would also eliminate the Altair, Imsai, KIM-1, PDP-8 and a few others. It doesn't work. Allison

26 years, 8 months

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by engine＠chac.org

At 09:04 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal >either. Wellll....I wouldn't mind a fastener that gave me the choice, like some kind of knurled goodie with a screwdriver slot. That would cover the case where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't own a #2 Phillips. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

26 years, 8 months

New Definiton REQUIRED

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:39 PM 11/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I am probably going to get yelled at... > >> Okay.... recently, there's been lots of "off-topic" stuff going on here >> about computers... but I think that it's not "off-topic." > >In my opinion it is. There are lots of good, smart people on this list >that can help everyone with modern(ish) equipment, but there are also lots >of them on other lists and USENET. I agree. I even think that there are better sources of info on the day-to-day operation of things like an Atari ST or Falcon (which I have) than here. If you want to know how to copy disks under CP/M, you'll be better off in comp.os.cpm. Which is not to say that such a question would necessarily be unwelcome, just not as well answered. Better might be "Where/who should I ask about formatting CP/M disks?" Mind you, I've answered PC questions posed to a Land Rover list (and suffered through discussions of florists in Oregon and which guitars are the best (I like Fenders, if I could afford one) on the same list.) >> if you remember, in the "welcome" message, it >> said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10 >> years or older would do. Well, 10 years is kinda arbitrary (and probably rather recent at this point.) Still, gotta do it somehow. My personal guideline is non-mainstream stuff (non-pc and non-mac) unless it's something really weird (like the Outbound laptop or the IBM PC Radio.) Still, that keeps it to >10yrs for almost everything except the occasional oddity. I wouldn't, fer instance, bother mentioning the Sharp PC-7100's or Compaq lunchbox here, even though they're probably 10yrs+ (Sharps for sure.) (Except, of course, as part of a larger discussion on the history of portable computers.) In any case, as with any such list, the decision and definition really belongs only to the list owner (Bill Whitson in this case) no matter how much he might solicit or be affected by input from list members. (And, of course, we all have the option of setting up our own DOS-PC-Collectors or whatever list if we want.) Personally, I'm not all that into DEC stuff (though a PDP 11/70 was my first and I thought it was great) so I wouldn't mind seeing less VAXstationery this or DECwindowshades that messages, but I wouldn't think of suggesting that others not post them. I just delete them (sometimes even without reading them -- Sorry!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

26 years, 8 months

Old stuff found

by krh03＠csufresno.edu

Found on comp.sys.tandy Greetings: I have acquired a pile of boxes from an estate sale. Numerous old computer pieces-parts that I thought might be of some value, but I don't know where to 'advertise' them -- and now they must go. Included are computers - TI & Radio Shack, some in perfect condition -- one is in a heavy steel case, RS keybd, could be home brew from misc parts but I can't tell, could it possibly be a stock TRS 80? software - cartridges & 5 1/4 floppies printers - are ribbons & print heads still available? ref books - old, specialized, probably junk monitors - USI, PI2, mono, unfamiliar connectors {also 2 non-computer antiques: 1) an old Associated Press linotype machine, with ribbons, very heavy. 2) 3M copier.} chips - small, many, stored in plastic tubes LNW Research products - look like large keybds but may be more than that -- one box is different as follows You should see this manual, it is beautiful. Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as an Antique Computer. Wish it had a date in it; ref is made to a CA sales tax of 6%. "System Expansion for the TRS-80 [pc board & user manual] w/ serial RS232C / 20mA I/O floppy controller 32K bytes memory" (awesome) etc.... Found a date. Guess! Answer to follow at signature. So please, somebody, send me a clue, what can I do. Anyone know an address where I can list these? Are old puters so plentiful as to not have any value as collector's items? Thanks much. ---mikey DON'T PEEK THE1ANSWER9IS8DON'T1PEEK Found on comp.sys.ti I have a couple TI99/4As, an expansion box with a disk drive and other stuff (very heavy), another disk drive, and some carts that a coworker was going to throw away. I live in Gilroy, CA and work in San Jose, CA. Anyone interested? Bostone1 Bostone1(a)aol.com

26 years, 8 months

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test-drb November 1997