- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Haven't had all that much thrifting lately so I have been pretty quiet. I just wanted to post about my jaunt to San Jose last weekend (for those of you not familiar with the region it is pretty much the center of what they call Silicon Valley). First off for those of you who live in the area, you guys drive like maniacs, you know there things called 'speed limits' and many cars are equipped with a 'turn signal' to signal switching lanes. Ok back on topic (if this were very much on topic), while my wife attended the 'Rubberama Rubber Stamp Show' I had the opportunity to check out 'theTech Museum of Innovation' It was very facinating obviously it has been supported by Intel with a mock-up clean room displaying the processes of making chips with examples, machine displays and videos. (you can even buy shiny 'bunny-suit' dolls in the gift shop) Also there was a rather interesting section on robotics, some on recycling, and a section devoted to space exploration but save for a few snapshots (of Woz's workbench and HP's garage) there was not any classic computers to be seen *sigh*. Oh and an internet/computer instruction center too, but I didn't spend much time there. The said some of the exhibits are on the new building (scheduled to be opened October 31st) so if you are thinking of visiting in the future you may want to wait. I did pick up an interesting souviner, a small hunk of processed silicon (looks like leftovers from the vats where they form the ingots). I only bought one and now think I sould have stocked up - for stocking stuffers and the like (Hey, if any of you volunteer there or go by the museum, could I get you to purchase some more for me? please???) So six bucks gets you adult admission. If you are interested in the chip manufacturing process and want to see some robots and stuff I think it's worth the money (and if you are too cheap for $6.00 at least you can see the billiard ball display just outside the entrance.) Oh, here's the web address for more details on the place: http://www.thetech.org/ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 11 months

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Microprocessors and who made them?

by dastar＠wco.com

Is there a reference somewhere listing all the different microprocessors ever made and who the designers were? Preferrably such a list would include a way (or hint of a way) to contact the designer of said microprocessor. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

27 years, 11 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What do you believe the frequency changed to ? (nominal 60Hz, right. <Well, anything from 50Hz to 70Hz (say) would be no problem at all). Id sueggest if you average 0hz(no power!) and 60 hs you may get someting inbetween. However the 0hz state must not exceed 8-10 cycles or you will no question get power fail. ;) Likely the power supplies dropped out whe the line voltage got below 88v. Most of those supplies will regulate down to that. However if there is also a dropout at 88V it will stop regulating as there will not be enough stored energy in the caps to hold it up. FYI: 400hz not only gets you smaller transformers it also reduces the size of the filter caps needed to remove the ripple from the rectifiers. The size and weight difference is significant when you combine the two. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Ours did that Friday, and the servers aren't happy with it. I'm heading in now to clean the mess up. Just out of curiosity, is there an actual term for this? Does it sounds like BS? And, what do you think it did to the MicroVAXen... We were told this was what had happened by the power company, does it sound like BS or what? -------

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What processor did it use? Also, what will be done to the machine after the "last run"? >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Larry Groebe wrote: > >> >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >> >available? >> > >> >thanks >> > >> >Kai >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >> >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >> > >> > >> >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >> >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >> >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >> >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >> >>the history of computing and user interface design. >> >> >> Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star >> emulator? How fast could those things have been? > >Not terribly. IIRC, there was a discernable lag between keystroke and >the appearance of the character on the monitor screen! > > - don >> --Larry >> > > donm(a)cts.com >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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RL02 Me 2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, since we have raised the topic of RL02... I have a pair that I (for some reason) would like to have hanging on my freshly-undead 11/34. I have the RL11 (M7762) and two 02s, whose 'READY' lites have '0' and '1' respectively. I have no other docs or info presently. [NOTE I would love to purchase / pay for copying / trade for these docs] I have put the controller in place of a bus grant cardlet, and have the cables properly done and the terminator on drive '1'. I have a disk pack marked RT-ll V5 that was in drive 0 when I got them, and all the hardware came as a (once working) set. I have the old 9301 boot card in now... I have a 9312 that came with the RL02 system but it causes the 11/34 to hang on power-up. From posts addressed to Zane.. I think that I have controller issues... and I certainly have no idea how to place/configure the RL11.. but at least the Magic Smoke is staying in the ICs where it belongs. *********************** Second question: I have several RT-11 disks for the RK05... they *all* boot from ODT (via the 'DK' command) but once KMON is active it gets autistic... the dot prompt appears, but any and all commands elicit the ?ILL CMD? response.... and that's it. It does this with each and every one (6 discs so far) I have the docs for RT-11 V2, and the Quick Reference booklets... and a working 11/73 with V5 on it.. so I'm a little familiar with RT-11. Does this above behavior point to anything stupid I'm doing, or......? And to think: I gave up Volunteer Bomb Disposal for this...... Cheers John

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by lgroebe＠insidermarketing.com

>Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? > >thanks > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Final Xerox Star demo > > >>Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >>workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >>demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >>this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in >>the history of computing and user interface design. Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star emulator? How fast could those things have been? --Larry

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by engine＠chac.org

At 15:28 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes >available? Me too please? I'll be in New York on the 17th.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

27 years, 11 months

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Books

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 31 May 1998 09:39:22 -0500, John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote: >>I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on >>someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic >>data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing >>nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing >>traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the >>ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) I thought that it was a custom piece of hardware that they used. Maybe that was the front-end. The book "Gates" is in the attic;I'll have to get it. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

| -----Original Message----- | From: Larry Groebe [mailto:lgroebe@insidermarketing.com] | Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:34 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: Final Xerox Star demo | | Better yet, has anyone given thought to the viability of building a Star | emulator? I've got one! It's called an "Apple Lisa" :) Kai

27 years, 11 months

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Final Xerox Star demo

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Is there someone to contact by phone to see if there will be videotapes available? thanks Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:17 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Final Xerox Star demo >Xerox PARC is giving one final demonstration of the original Xerox Star >workstation built in 1981. This may be the last time it gets >demoed, as the hardware has begun failing due to its age. Don't miss >this opportunity to witness one of the most important steps ever taken in the >history of computing and user interface design. > > Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation > 5:30 to 7:00pm > Wednesday June 17th > Auditorium Xerox PARC > > > Unquestionably, one of the major design innovations of this century >has been the Graphical User Interface, with its desktop, icons, pop-up >and pull-down menus and ubiquitous windows. The explosion of computer usage >in the last decade has in large part been made possible through this simpler >and more direct method of user interaction. > > Though millions of people around the world are now using GUIs, few >outside of the Human/Computer Interaction field or the Silicon Valley >are aware of the history of the its design prior to the introduction >of the Macintosh in 1984. > > The first GUI ever developed was the work of Dr. Douglas Englebart, >a researcher at SRI (the Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA) in the >mid-1960s. His visionary and pioneering design and prototypes succeeded in >producing the world's first screen-based windows, cursor-selectable pop-up >menus, as well as the mouse with which to interact with them. > > Though these innovations were truly revolutionary, it was not until >a decade later when researchers at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) >began systematically studying this system in a commericial development effort. >The Xerox Alto personal computer workstation was developed in the late 70's >and included a mouse pointing system. This system influenced later systems >such as Bravo, which was developed at Xerox PARC by Bruce Lampson and included >an integrated editor formatter. Later systems included Markup, Draw, and Star. > > Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) has been a cradle of Silicon >Valley innovation for 25 years. Its research spans domains from atoms >to anthropology, from its solid-state physics lab, which develops new >laser diodes for use in printers and copiers, to the group that studies >work practices and their possible impact on current and future products. > > Located in the Stanford University Industrial Park in the heart of >Silicon Valley, PARC was charged upon its founding in 1970 to the >"architect of the information age". Since then it has delivered into >use such significant pieces of the current information infrastructure >as laser printers, graphical user interfaces, object-oriented >programming languages, and Ethernet local area networks. PARC has >contributed to user interfaces, electronic components, embedded >software and architectures for each new line of Xerox copiers, >printers, and systems reprographics products. > > > > Directions to Xerox PARC > >>From Highway 101, take the Oregon Expressway exit west 2 miles to >El Camino Real. Oregon Expressway becomes Page Mill Road at El Camino. Follow >Page Mill Road 1.7 miles to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn left. Coyote >Hill Road is just past the intersection with >Foothill Expressway. Go one-half mile and PARC will be on your left. >Follow the signs to the auditorium. > >>From Interstate 280, take the Page Mill Road exit. Go east one mile >to Coyote Hill Road (no light) and turn right. Go one-half mile and >PARC will be on your left. Follow the signs to the auditorium.

27 years, 11 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Who exactly decided that there was a frequency change? It seems strange that they could have known if there are no monitors to check and this is not a central problem. Of course, if this was a resonant transformer and the guy shorted it, or he hooked the transformer to a portable generator that the construction company was using, or he temporarily powered it with a solenoid using a jackhammer for a slug... >> Who knows hertz and 60 volts. A serviceman across the hall did something > >Let me guess. 60Hz and 60V. It's very difficult (I'd say impossible, but >then somebody will find a way !) to change mains frequency by miswiring a >transformer. Voltage, sure. > >Actually, I do have a device somewhere that provides the 25Hz for UK >telephone bells from the AC mains. It contains a transformer with a >winding resonated to 25Hz by a capacitor. And it's 'kicked' into >oscillations by a 50Hz mains winding on the same core. But that's hardly >the sort of thing you can make 'by accident'. > >> [When you get to the machine room, power line monitors etc.] >> Don't make me laugh! Our machine room is a closet. > >That doesn't prevent you having power line monitors. > >> Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > >I've seen it used on aircraft equipment (small, light transformers and >smoothing caps). Didn't IBM use it on some mainframes/minis? > >> >> I am officially here, by the way. CILCO is still yelling at A&B Construction >> (Or whomever they were...) and my boss wants to go help. The machines >> seemed to care more about halving the line voltage (Which I wasn't told > >Oh, indeed. Halving the line voltage will cause all sorts of problems. >Few power supplies can cope with that and give the rated outputs. > >> about) than the frequency change... >> ------- >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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IBM stuff

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

And then WYSE can post their patents and try to sue them both! > >John, > > Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to >post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! > > Joe > >At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Hey Joe, >>Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >>SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >>long time since I thought about this stuff!! >> >>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 >> >>John >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Spring CP/M-UG N.W. Swap Meet this Saturday

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

For those in the N.W. Oregon / S.W. Washington area (or those inclined to drive a bit) B^} The 'n'th Annual Spring edition of the CP/M-UG Swap Meet will occur on Saturday June 6th, on Rose Festival Parade day just as always. It will be held in the lower level of the Senior Citizens Center on Omera, just south of the Tigard (Oregon) City Hall on Hall Blvd. (not too hard to reach from I-5 or Hwy-217) As always, it's Free, Easy, and Non-Fattening! (except perhaps to your wallet or garage, depening on your approach!) Bring your Junk, your Treasures, and your Wallet! The only rule is... Leave Nothing Behind! (NO garbage service!) Address: 8815 S.W. Omera (Just south of Fanno Creek on Hall Blvd.) Tigard, OR. Hours: 0800 to 1500 or whenever the good stuff runs out! (8am to 3pm for the layfolk) Fees: No charge! (we pass the hat for contributions) NOTE: Tailgating is encouraged! Some of the best deals are made in the parking lot! (before, during, and after!) See you there! --- For additional details, (directions, etc.) call Gary @ Oregon Electronics (503) 293-5293 or drop me a e-mail. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 11 months

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RL-02 Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

In the pile of stuff I got yesterday was an RL-02 and a Q-Bus controller for it. I've placed the Q-Bus controller in one of my SMS-1000's (PDP-11/73), and am trying to get the drive to spin up. Looking through my archives of the mailing list, it looks like the drive itself is fine. I think my problem is on the PDP end. The motor spins for about 15 seconds, I hear the click, but the fault light stays on. I've reversed the way I've got the cable plugged into the board, but still know luck. I suspect my problem is that the SMS-1000 doesn't support RL-02's. The Boot ROM's seem to be built into the beast, and I suspect it only supports Hard Drives (DU), TK50's and floppies. I guess my next project is to try and attach a TK-50 to the machine, as I got a small stack of TK50's with the stuff yesterday, and it looks like they've got TSX-11-something on them. Do PDP-11's have the VAX equivalent of Standalone Backup? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 26 May 1998 22:27 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 06:44 PM 5/26/98 +1000, you wrote: >> >> >>I have one question , well I actually have two...... >>though, what software came on cassetes? >>and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >>makes them die??? >> > I dunno about the FH drives. I've never seen one die! They seem to >last forever! > > Joe > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost impossable to get a hold of......

27 years, 11 months

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What is it called when the 60hz line power becomes something else?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 10:52, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Oh, and who uses 400hz for line frequency? > > Common AC distribution voltage on aircraft and other weight-is-important > vehicles. And on some IBM mainframes, I believe. A friend of mine obtained a 360, and was most upset when the previous owner decided to keep the 50Hz-to-400Hz converters. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 7:41, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the > > O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine > > Really? Which version RSX11M? Which Unix? Certainly the recent versions > of 11M+, as well as 2.10 and 2.11BSD, will crash very badly if you use > them on a system with more than 124 kWords of memory and a RLV11. My RSX11M 3.2 and 4.1 manage fine. AFAIR, it's supported -- it's certainly in the manual somewhere. The driver understands that it has to be careful about using the bottom 124K words for disk access. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints doesn't >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard. >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting sued. > >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years, I >suspect). Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP and a lot of others, and they're still in business! Joe > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 11 months

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RL-02 proves me an Idiot!

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well, I've got my RL-02 on the /73 working. The cable on the back had the locking key in the unlocked position. Arrrgggghhhhh, it took me a day to figure that one out! Lesson learned, visual inspections just don't cut it! Of course I don't seem to have Boot ROM's in the SMS-1000 that support the RL-02. I tell it to boot dl0: and it tells me it's an illegal device. Yet the RSX11M boot tape tells me that's the device name. I still haven't been able to figure out what they guy I got this stuff off of could have been using to boot it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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RL-02 Question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 20:53, Tony Duell wrote: > And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? > Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. It will work in a Q22 backplane providing you remove two links, which otherwise cause the RLV11 to use BC1/BD1 for "other than BDAL18/19". It has to be a straight backplane, with CD-interconnect, of course. Even then, it only does 18-bit DMA, so whether it's useful depends on the O/S -- RSX11 and Unix manage fine, but I don't know about RT-11. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Anyone have a TS-11 bootstrap?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I'll be needing this soon... -------

27 years, 11 months

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New stuff, new questions

by dastar＠wco.com

I picked up some odd-balls recently. One item is called a Disk Storage Drive Diagnostic Unit made by a company called Information Storage Systems, Inc. Another unit I saw had a Sperry-Univac label on it. It's obvious what it is, but for what drives? The manual says Model 714 and 715 disk storage drives, but is that hard or floppy? I can't tell from the unit, although my guess would be hard disk. Anyone ever used, let alone heard, of one of these? I also got another, older model, but didn't get a manual with it. (You can find more of these at Mike Quinn Electronics in case you're interested). I also picked up a Standard Engineering Corporation Word Generator (WGR-241). It looks like it is a PDP-11 card, but I'm not totally sure (its got the big horse-teeth edge connector). On the front is 24 SPST switches, I guess for setting a 24-bit word. Any clues? I also got a TI program recorder (for the TI 99/4a) and a couple AtariLab software packages (starter set and Light module), which were little physical sciences experimenter kits for the Atari 400/800. They come with a carthridge for the program, and each one has a different set of sensors that plug into the computer. The start kit has a module that connects to the joystick port, and the other kits' sensors plug into this module so you can get simultaneous readings from different sensors I suppose. The starter kit had a letter in it addressed from one of the design staff thanking whoever recieved the package for their help in bringing the product to market. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/30/98]

27 years, 11 months

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IBM patents

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hey take a look at this "http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168". I wish the other computer companies would do this! Joe

27 years, 11 months

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IBM stuff

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

John, Hey, that really looks great! I heard a while back that IBM was going to post all of their patents on the net. Now if HP will just do the same! Joe At 07:56 PM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Joe, >Check this out!! I was looking for an IBM web site that might have your >SCSI drive infomation on it when I stumbled upon this!! Boy...it's been a >long time since I thought about this stuff!! > >http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4541168 > >John >

27 years, 11 months

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RL-02 Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim? <Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here. The RLV11 is not q22 and MUST have a Q/CD backplane. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Q-Bus PDP-11 RAM Board

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I got a non-DEC PDP-11/73 today minus the CPU (not a big deal, I saw the CPU that had been in it, and I've got two of them). Anyway I've managed to identify all of the haul of boards, except the RAM boards. I was told they are 2Mb boards but the person wasn't sure. Also I'm wondering if anyone has the switch settings for them. The board in question is labled: NSC NS23D It also has three jumpers near the contacts. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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RSX-11M Questions.

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I'd just like to say... THE /73 BOOTS FROM TAPE!!! On the downside, I haven't any idea what to do. I was able to get 7 RL-02 packs, some of which are supposedly bootable, and a stack of TK-50's yesterday, but the documentation had been trashed. :^( He still had the binders, and there must have been 3-4 feet of docs at one time :^( So bear with me, I've not got any documentation (donations gladly accepted :^) The tape boots up to the following: ------- RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V03 RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program Valid Switches are: /CSR=nnnnnn to change the default CSR /VEC=nnn to change the default device vector /FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number /DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors Enter first device: ------- I went ahead and told it /DEV and it printed out a list of different devices stating what was present. It sees my Hard Drive and the TK50. The question is, what is this, and what do I do? I just tried entering 'DU0:' and it took that, but that seems to be the limit of my ability to fathom it out. BTW I pulled the RL-02 controller out that I was asking about earlier for this. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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Pansonic Sr. Partner FS

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

FOR SALE Panasonic Sr. Partner XT (8088) class "portable" computer. Great condition, works great. 2 - 5.25" 360k floopy drives, 512k RAM, 8 bit ISA card slot, composite 9: green CGA monitor and external CGA port. Serial and parallel ports. Built in keyboard. NO built in printer.$45 plus shipping (about 25 lbs) For picture and other info see http://members.tripod..com/~RHBLAKE/fleamarket.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 728 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980530/197091c5/at…

27 years, 11 months

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FW: Budpest Collector needs help

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. One of our fellow collectors in Budapest needs help with, of all things, a Russian version of a MicroPDP-11/23. If anyone can help him along, please contact him directly. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: hamster(a)lord.banki.hu (Akos Varga) Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Knowledge on soviet uPDP models? Date: 31 May 1998 14:00:03 GMT Organization: Banki Donat Polytechnic, Budapest Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6krnp3$rhv$1(a)goliat.eik.bme.hu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lord.banki.hu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 960804] Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!lord.banki.hu!not-for-mail Does someone with some knowledge of the russian MicroPDP models reads this group? I acquired a machine called MIKI Micro 11/23 System 2500 Team Computer, and it seems it has a russian F-11-clone CPU and some rather strange cards with cyrillian letters on it. The cards are probably from the Soviet company "Elektronika". Now I'm not familiar with these cards, although I could identify them. I'd like to make this machine working again, can someone provide me with some information on how to do this? If yes I can write down all boards and the components on them... This is gettinig iteresting, a soviet uPDP :) / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)netweb.hu / // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.netweb.hu/hamster/english.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PDP 11 Page http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ Old Irons http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/oldiron/e_index.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} js d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 11 months

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Books

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:56 AM 5/31/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >> >> Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic >> signals. > >I actually felt a little guilty about that. Supposedly, that's how >Microsoft got its start, right? I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-) - John

27 years, 11 months

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Books

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > I bumped into Frank "Reanimator" McConnell and Paul "Sun Worshiper" Coad > today, and while Paul scrounged for Sun parts, Frank and I did the > "one for you, one for me" thing over a pile of old^H^H^H classic books. > We both left behind the most complete Modula-2 library I have ever seen, Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic signals. Here's what seems to have followed me home: Arithmetic Operations in Digital Computers, Richards, 1955 Computer System Organization: The B5700/B6700 Series, Organick, 1973 (Oooh! Another stack machine!) Currents in the Theory of Computing, Aho (ed.), 1973 Decimal Computation, Schmid, 1974 Implementing Software for Non-Numeric Applications, Waite, 1973 Information Theory and Coding, Abramson, 1963 Internal Sorting Methods Illustrated with PL/1 Programs, Rich, 1972 Low Density Parity-Check Codes, Gallager, 1963 Microprogramming Primer, Katzan, 1977 Sequential Machines: Selected Papers, Moore (ed.), 1964 Systems Programming, Donovan, 1972 Oh, and the IEEE 802.2 (LLC), 802.4 (token bus), and 802.5 (token ring) standards. Curiously enough, I was looking for the first of these at work this week, and the last one may be of use to me too. > After I get my study-at-home PhD in Obsolete Hardware Engineering, I'd be > happy to loan/trade/sell a few of these titles. Similar offer: if you're in the San Francisco Bay Area and have an interest in these, ask, I'm willing to loan them out. Maybe even if you're not in the Bay Area and can convince me that sending them is a worthwhile thing to do. I definitely want to read the Organick book first, though. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I <recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: < 1209A < 0276R < 1464B < unknown. Tempting to find one and put it in a board I have from '74. <BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? Cermet, ceramic/metal package. The I8008 were silicone plastic. they are intel parts either way. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That I'd heard before, which is why I'm so supprised by the <hardware-encoded keyboard in an otherwise software-driven machine. Things you cant do with a software scanned keyboard: Key pressed interrupt, if the cpu doesn't scan the keyboard it cannot sense activity. It takes some chips extra then to sense any key pressed and cause a interupt to initiate a keybard scan and debounce routine to see what happend. The keyboard chips did n-key rollover and buffered at least one keystroke. Fewer signal carrying wires in the air, the keyboard encoders were slow and didn't create much RFI, scan lines off the bus or a port can be quite noisy. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> wrote: > Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona > could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline, > strikethrough, bold, etc. See what happens on this list? If you aren't careful, you can learn something new every day! I stand corrected; I used Wordstar on less-capable video. And now I'm wondering whether I could get Wordstar on the HP150 to do this sort of thing.... -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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[Off Topic] Just so you all know...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

As of about 10 minutes ago, I am no longer a high school student. I graduated :) I come back here next year as part of the staff. They're hiring me to run the TCP/IP equipment. And, my 11/44 still has a home... -------

27 years, 11 months

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by chrish＠knet.kootenay.net

Try looking at http://www.heathkit.com/parts.html for parts and repair centers also to get old manuals and scimatics look at bottom of the url page phone 616-925-5899 At 10:06 PM 29/05/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know >> the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP >> and a lot of others, and they're still in business! > >Heathkit *is* still in business, just not quite the same business: > http://www.heathkit.com > >-- Doug > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Intel 8008 CPU date codes

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 05:19 PM 5/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I >recognize. Can somebody interpret for me: > 1209A > 0276R > 1464B > >BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"? > >-- Doug > Don't know about the date code, but for Intel the "C" means ceramic package, vs. P, plastic. The "H" is a Hermetic (2 pieces of ceramic that look like they are cemented together). I think "C" is the only version the 8008 came in. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

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help! strange Atari box

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi all, I went to a surplus store last week and found an odd Atari box. It says it's an Automatic ROM/RAM Tester. It has two rows of address switches, one switches on one row are labeled 10 through 0 and have LEDs above them. The second row of switches only has five switches and they marked 11 through 15 and don't have corrosponding LEDS. Switch 11 is directly below switch 10, switch 12 is below switch 9, and so on. It looks like they may be multiplexed somehow. The box also has 8 Data switches and LEDs. The are four low insertion force sockets on the box, two are for 25 pin DIPs and 2 are for 20 pin DIPs. There are also various other switchs marked 1K/2K, RUN/STOP, Read/R/W*, and GAME/BOX. There is only one connector on the box, it goes to a 50 pin card edge connector via a ribbon cable. There are no power connectors or other connectors on it so it has to part of a larger unit. Any ideas? Anyone? Joe

27 years, 11 months

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Why does the Apple ][ have a hardware-encoded keyboard?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I had just read the interview oyu mention yesterday. Could someone give me some idea of what chips were involved in this thing? Did it use PROMs, microcontrollers, or what? How can you make a game with 44 chips (not an expression of disbelief)? > >> It's reasonably obvious from looking at the design of all Apple ][ series >> machines and their peripherals that they were designed to use the >> simplest hardware possible. Things like the 'minimalist' disk controller, >> the bit-banger serial port and the Apple ][ I/O structure support this. >> >> Why therefore did all Apple ][s use a hardware encoded keyboard with a >> fairly complex (and expensive) encoder IC? Software scanning would have >> been simpler in the hardware, not added much to the software, and would >> have been more versatile in many ways (the single-wire shift key mod >> wouldn't have been necessary). > >At the time (mid-70's), surplus keyboards with ASCII encoded parallel >outputs were readily available from many sources. Check, for example, >the ads in the back of a '75 or '76 _Radio-Electronics_, or see >many of the articles in the early _BYTE_'s. According to interviews >with Wozniak (for example, _BYTE 1984:12 p.167), it was no big >deal to find such a keyboard, put the right plug on the end, and >plug it in (he says, of the Apple I, "You also had >to get a keyboard and wire it into a 16-pin DIP connector".) > >Apple II motherboards were also available without a case or keyboard >or power supply, and many hobbyists bought these as a way of saving >a couple of bucks. > >Why use an encoder IC? Yes, it is cheaper if you skip this and >have the CPU scan the keyboard. But encoder IC's weren't expensive >at the time, and were an extremely common industry-standard >solution; see, for example, Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_ to get >an idea at how readily available such encoders were in the mid-70's. > >Wozniak often did go for non-industry-standard solutions to >peripheral interfacing, but generally only when it reduced the >chip count. It seems to me that the encoder-IC approach to a >keyboard has a lower part count than if you use SSI TTL IC's to let >the CPU scan the keyboard. > >Chip count was an extremely important thing to Wozniak; for example, >in the same interview I referenced before, he says > >"Nolan Bushnell >was really annoyed because all their new games were coming out at 150- >170 chips. He wanted low chip counts to reduce costs, >and he had seen a version of Pong that I had done, that only used >about 30 chips. He appreciated that. So he said if we could design >a hardware Breakout in under 50 chips, we'd get 700 bucks; and if >it was under 40 chips, we'd get $1000. ... We gave them a working >breadboard for it. My first design was 42 chips. By the >time we got it working it was 44, but we were so tired we >couldn't cut it down. So we only got 700 bucks for >it." > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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my first computer, game of "life"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi all, I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in "Scientific American" I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8 states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell. The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a later 4MHz Z-80 program! I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the 74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally 3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays. It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was about 35 + 6 for the generation counter. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

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Convergent Computers Re: CTOS/BTOS recovery

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I recently found a Convergent computer in a surplus store here. It has the display section, CPU section and hard drive in blocks that attach to each other and looks like it uses some kind of external power supply. Each block had a model number on it but the only one that I remember was CP-001 on the CPU. Anyone know what this thing is and wheather it's worth picking up? Joe At 10:36 PM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi. > >I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was >pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got >286 and 386 models. Wow! > >Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think. >(compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion' >and needs to be connected to another disk module to work. > >My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a >'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can >just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't >work on the new system. > >Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and >application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd >like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a >less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts >available to press into service for the cause. > >Thoughts, hints, suggestions? > >ok >r. > > >

27 years, 11 months

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with <> <> QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? < <Should be CTL-ALT-ENTER if I remember correctly. Once you're at DOS you c That was the winner, thanks. I should have specifed that it was a Pheonix bios machine. FYI it's a great Minix machine! For those that are interested there is a site on the net (http://minix1.hampshire.edu). Bins and sources are available on the net. It can be run on anything from an XT to P6. There is also a book Operating Systems design and Implmentation 2nd Edition with CDrom of sources and bins. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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minor find,need info

by allisonp＠world.std.com

This is fairly recent so please reply offlist. Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with a DEC color tube and keyboard. It runs so it's going to become a minix or linux machine. QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it? Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Tandy had little input into the design really), it was a fine machine. <OS-9 on the CoCo was the first real OS I ever used - it taught me a lot <about writing device drivers, multitasking, etc. And the CoCo3 (alas not <at all common in the UK) was a very interesting box. OS9, I've heard a little about it but never seen it. Is it available? I have a COCO (I think a III, has a few ASICs and 128k), no disk controller but that can't be much majik. <And don't forget the 3rd party software for the Z-80 machines. LDOS was <arguably the finest Z80 operating system at the time - it was a lot What ever happend to LDOS? Allison

27 years, 11 months

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11/34a runs now...

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Many thanks to the Listmembers who have offered suggestions and assistance and info.. I have discovered (and rectified) the problem with my RK05 talking to it's host. I could get into a long shaggy-dog story here, but basically I had the *drive* end of the interface cable in bass-ackward. >>> DOH! <<< (Lame excuse: it's the end you can't see) And now the terminal sez: RT-11SJ V02C-02 . kewl, huh? And, even though the problem turned out to be a forehead-slapper, I must say that I have learned great gobs of stuff about how the drive works, how it interfaces, and what makes it tick. I would *never* have had the opportunity to get such (rare) understanding, had it not been for the long diagnostic journey. And that is one of my goals in collecting these things: to know them well enough to keep them on the air, and to be able to share that knowledge with others in return. Thanks to Tony Duell, Tim Shoppa, Ward Griffiths, and Huw Davies for their generous assistance. Now: get the RL02s on-line, find formatter for the Kennedy 9trk, find an interface for the System Industries 470M drive, get Unix running, &tc; &tc; &tc. But.. TRW Ham/Electronic/Computer swapmeet is tomorrow, the 28th (Sat) here in SoCal... and I'm heading that way... to find all the goodies before Marvin has a chance at them. ;} Cheers John

27 years, 11 months

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Insanely Great

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Another trio of questions. I am reading Steven Levy's Insanely Great, about the making of the Apple Mac. 1)I finally have learned the purpose of Quickdraw through this book. Do all windowing systems do this, or are there ones that render all windows even if they are obscured. The name of the system I want to know about ought not be mentioned for obvious reasons. 2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine, to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training. What was it? 3)Should I keep my reference cards attached to the manuals or tear them off? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Contact

by oboissea＠club-internet.fr

Is there a list or a forum for those who collect classic micro-computers ? please help me. Thank you. Olivier BOISSEAU oboissea(a)club-internet.fr

27 years, 11 months

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20 years of BYTE

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I took out from the library a sort of collection: 20 years of byte with some historic articles, ads ,etc. from BYTE's point of view in 1994. I liked the timeline, but the articles are very boring and technical. One of the IBM ads says,"The IBM Personal Computer starts at less than $1600 for a system that, with the addition of one simple device, hooks up to your home TV and uses your audio cassette recorder" (1982:1p61). Would this one device be a TRS-80? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values)

by mallison＠konnections.com

Copyrights are valid (those affecting 1960) for 75 years, at least. That's for whoever made them, assumed them, or what have you. Someone owns the rights, whether the company exists or not. -Mike ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: EC-1 (was Re: Re[2]: Computer Values) > Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 9:34 PM > > At 09:23 PM 5/29/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shawn Rutledge wrote: > > > >> FWIW, the company that currently sells Heathkit manual reprints doesn't > >> look too kindly on people publishing web manuals from what I've heard. > >> I'd sure like to publish my stash too if I could do so without getting > sued. > > > >Hmm, I know that any patents associated with the EC-1 have expired by > >now, but I don't recall how long a copyright lasts (more than 38 years, I > >suspect). > > Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know > the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP > and a lot of others, and they're still in business! > > Joe > > > > >-- Doug > > > > >

27 years, 11 months

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S2350 data sheet

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980530/9f18e464/at…

27 years, 11 months

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Token Ring

by afritz＠iname.com

I know this MAY not be 10years yet, but its getting there. Does anyone know a good place to get ISA and (especially) EISA token ring cards? (IBM or 100% IBM-compatible prefered.) I figure there must be someone who's got a bunch they'd love to get rid of. :) I don't want (or like) any of this new PCI-based junk. af ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com http://www.afritz.base.org ----------

27 years, 11 months

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Insanely Great

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>>2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine, >>to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training. >>What was it? > >Doug Engelbart designed a five-key keyboard that would do most of seven-bit >ASCII by accepting chording combinations. His idea was that you'd always >run the keyboard with one hand and the mouse with the other. Sounds cool, but hard to use, especially in a time when to use a computer, you needed to type at least 30-50WPM (WAM), and spent enough time on a computer to compute in your sleep!!! That kind of typing can't be easy to forget. I recently saw a one-handed keyboard, which looked kinda like a MS Natural Keyboard, with the right hand sawed off, and the numeric keypad next to the left. It looked like there were a few extra keys, but you had a key that you held down, kinda like shift, and it would make the oposite character (like A for H, S for J, etc.) Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by nitedriver＠webtv.net

For data on TRS-80 & LDOS try: http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/ then link to Tim Mann. Regards, JT

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm thanks I'll have time in the next day or so to pull the thing apart and relay back my findings............ -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 9:03 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >[IBM PC floppy drives] > >> I get nothing out of them, no motor spin up, no led, no >> nothing................... > >I've got the Type 1 drive schematics here (from the O&A TechRef volume 1). > >Let's go through the obvious things first. > >You have a DIP shunt (a little plastic block with shorting bars) in >socket 1E of both drives, right? And a termination resistor pack in >socket 2F of the drive physically furthest from the controller. > >Check that the cables on J4 at the back of the logic board are connected >properly. There are some blank pins (4?) nearest to the edge connector, >and then P8-P12 in order along the pins. > >Also, check the supply voltages - +5V and +12V at the drive when the >machine is turned on. You do have the power cables plugged in, I trust >:-) (don't laugh - I've forgotten them). > >OK, let's sort out the lack of LED first. Unplug the cable from the >controller (leave it hooked up to the drives) and turn on the machine. > >Ground pin 3 of IC 3E (a 7407) in the drive. Does the LED come on now? If >so, then suspect the controller, DIP shunt or cable. If not, then ground >pin 4 of IC3E. If the LED now comes on, then IC3E is defective (or not >geting power). > >Problem is, if IC3E is defective, then how many other parts have been >damaged. 7407's are pretty reliable, so if it's damaged, it sounds like >power problems. You didn't hook up the power cable backwards, did you? > >You can trace the motor on signal similarly. Try grounding pin 16 on the >edge connector (the even numbered pins are on the top of the board, >starting from the end nearest to the notch in the connector tongue), or >equivalently pin 1 of IC3E. If the motor doesn't start,then try grounding >TP13. If that starts the motor, IC3E is defective. If the motor still >doesn't start then I'll have to talk you through the motor control board >at the back. > >> >> >> > >-tony >

27 years, 11 months

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CTOS/BTOS recovery

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got 286 and 386 models. Wow! Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think. (compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion' and needs to be connected to another disk module to work. My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a 'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't work on the new system. Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts available to press into service for the cause. Thoughts, hints, suggestions? ok r.

27 years, 11 months

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Computer Values

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have a Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in operational condition with the patch cables, assortment of caps and resistors plus the operating manual. I have entertained selling this (robbing Peter to pay Paul) to help fund a 1939 pre-war television acquisition. A dilemma. Should I part with the EC-1 I doubt I will ever find another. As toward the value of the EC-1 I don't have a clue but would like to know what anyone else thinks a fair price would be. -Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Computer Values Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/15/98 5:38 PM On Thu, 14 May 1998, Marvin wrote: > a TRS-80 Model 4P and a Coco 2. IMNSHO, the values of all computers will > vary greatly depending on the knowledge and experience of the person > doing the valuation. Hmmm, sounds just like *every* other form of > collecting. I used to collect coins when I was a kid, and the Blue Book (wholesale values) and Red Book (retail values) were my bibles. Coins had a pretty good grading system, and you could find fairly reliable production data. I don't know of anybody that has tried to do anything close to this for computers. > I, for one, do like to see what E-Bay is doing. I kept track for a > while of the people who were bidding on the stuff, and there were a > number of people there who were collectors. Last year, I was bidding on > a Sol-20, and the guy who outbid me won the bid at $800 or so. High? I > talked with the guy later on, and the machine was in mint condition, had > all the original documentation, and also included some of the > peripherals. The Altairs that have been sold there are *all* selling > below the prices I have seen for similar systems. eBay and other online auctions are probably the best gauges of prices there are, because they represent fairly efficient markets. In fact, some online auctions that move their own inventory do regression analysis that tells them more or less what price they can expect to get for any given item. If somebody were to do the same analysis on person-to-person auction data, that would be a very good starting place for a price guide (especially from an auction like Haggle Online that also stores condition, make, and model information :-). If you only look at one or two anecdotal transactions, that doesn't tell you much. > FWIW, I tend to value my collection in the millions of dollars. And > that is probably conservative ... if one were to go back in time and > look at what the stuff cost new :). The real question is what value does your insurance company place on your collect. My guess is that they would value an Apple 1 based on a twenty year depreciation starting with a $666 basis! BTW, if, hypothetically, I were to find somebody willing to sell me a Heathkit EC-1 analog computer in good condition, what value would you experts assign to it, and what would you base your valuation on? -- Doug ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May15.173832.1767.41873; Fri, 15 May 1998 17:38:33 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA25383; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:19 -0700 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA29926 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:09 -0700 Received: from behemoth.host4u.net (behemoth.host4u.net [209.150.128.29]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id VAA06570 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:03:08 -0700 Received: from localhost (yowza@localhost) by behemoth.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA32029 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 14 May 1998 23:03:02 -0500 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980514224917.29083B-100000(a)behemoth.host4u.net> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Computer Values In-Reply-To: <355BB476.56756898(a)rain.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: yowza(a)behemoth.host4u.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 11 months

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System/34

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have started to dismantle my System/34 so that I can save at least the parts until someone can get them. One question is, does everything in each S/34 plug together the same way? If so, I don't have to label the cables, which is going to be a looong task. Also, how should I park/lock the 62 megabyte hard drive? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

1
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Mort boards...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

2 datapath boards I was missing for the 785, almost the rest of the 780 (Missing only one board! The microsequencer... [M8235]...) Interesting toys include: A DZV11. Does anyone have the pinout for the distribution panel for this? And a SUMMUS 422-U controller. It has a SCSI-style plug at the top, it's a quad-height ?bus controller, and I'm told it wants a SCSI tape drive attached to it. The main chip says "442/UDT 4641" on top. A ROM is on here, it says "Viking U/B A4.4" Any info on this? -------

27 years, 11 months

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20 years of BYTE

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I remember back in the soviet union there were a couple of good magazines for young people that had projects in them.I was too young to build any of them, and you'd have a hard time getting a blank PCB there anyway, but they had a primitive rover-like robot (with programmable modules based on the arrangement of electrical traces on a cartridge), an RC boat, etc. I'd love to get my hands on one of those. When I go back there (hopefully in a couple of years), I will be sure to photocopy some of the stuff. Nothing like "build 99 projects" of today. >> > >> >> It's no loss IMO. Byte hasn't been worth the paper it was printed on > >Agreed. I stopped reading Byte shortly after the last 'Ciarcia's Circuit >Cellar'. It's not that that was the only interesting article in it - many >of the programming articles were great as well. But all the good stuff >went at about the same time, and Byte became yet another ready-built >PC-clone mag. > >> for a looonnggg time. The same thing happened to Popular Electronics, >> another of good OLD magazines. > >Are there _any_ good electronics/computer mags left now (especially in >the UK)? Elektor used to be good, but recently it's all been >pre-programmed PLDs with no idea as to what's in them, controlled by >binary-only software for Microsoft OS's. No interest there for me... > >> >> Joe >> >> > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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IBM Techref's available?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I emailed IBM. they said they transferred the stuff to someplace called Greenleaf computers (I think, not sure). I didn't bother to pursue it. They will be happy to give you the phone #. >> Hi, >> >> Are technical references for IBM XT's / 286 machines avaialbe from IBM >> still? If so then I assume that they charge quite a bit of money for >> them! > >AFAIK, all are out of print, but IBM probably have some remaining stock >of most of them. I bought several manuals about a year ago. > >The XT Model 286 manual is unavailable. > >The others that you might need are : > >PC >XT and Portable PC >AT >AT suplement for the type 2 board >(those contain schematics of the motherboard and keyboard, BIOS sources, etc) > >Options and Adapters. 2 volumes covering just about every card for the PC >and XT, monitors, drives, etc. >O&A AT update (16 bit cards, serial/parallel adapter, etc) >Scientific O&A (GPIB, DAC, PGC, etc) > >PC-jr (PC-jr motherboard _and all option cards_ for it in one manual) > >I posted the forms numbers (which you need to get them from IBM) on this >list a few months back - it's probably in the archives somewhere... > >They're not cheap, but not too expensive IMHO. Figure on \pounds 50.00 >per volume. I was pleasantly supprised by the ammount of information that >I got. > >> Jules > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Byte Magazine RIP

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I don't know if everyone has heard, but the July issue of Byte will be the last issue. It's a sad day for the computer industry. While Byte has become primarily a Windows magazine in the past few years, they were still the closest thing to a general purpose magazine left, and the only non-specialized computer magazine that I still bought. The following C/Net article gives the details http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,22532,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Is there a socketed PLCC chip in the middle of the board? (the so-called <GIME chip). If so, it's a 3. Yes there is. <The disk controller is basically a WD1773 + support circuitry. And a ROM <containing the disk extensions to basic. Not trivial to build, but not <impossible. You might find a second hand one somewhere. The FDC is easy as I have 1793 and 8229(glue chip). The rom is a show stopper. I'll have to keep an eye open. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 29, 6:53, Joe wrote: > Cord wrote: > >I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is > >a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. > >1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the > >battery with it won't charge. > Your chances of finding another battery are slim. Even if you find one > it will be old and probably won't last long. My suggestion is to take it > to one of the battery places that rebuild batteries and have them replace > the cells in your old battery. If you can take the battery pack apart (separate it into single cells) in such a way that it could be re-assembled, all is not lost. The usual problem with NiCds is that internal crystal growth makes short circuits; the battery will show virtually 0V. If you force a sufficiently high current through the cell, it will often remove the short. However, the current needs to be very high, and has to be of short duration to avoid other damage. The way I do it, is to charge a large electrolytic capacitor up to 20V - 30V, connect one side to one end of a cell with a short thick wire, and touch ("flash") the other side to the other end with another short thick wire. The spark is usually fairly dramatic, so it's best to touch the wire to the terminals and not the case (lest the arc burn through it), and use eye protection. Repeat as required until the cell shows some reasonable voltage. Then put the cell through a full-charge/deep-discharge/full-charge cycle. I've resurrected quite a few NiCds with my 24V bench PSU and a 50,000mfd 30V electrolytic. BTW, inside a lot of laptop batteries, you'll find a small metal box in series with the cells. Don't throw it away; it's a thermal cutout intended to prevent excessive current flow. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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IBM Techref's available?

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

Hi, Are technical references for IBM XT's / 286 machines avaialbe from IBM still? If so then I assume that they charge quite a bit of money for them! If you can't get them any longer, then has anyone scanned any of the information and stuck it on the 'net anywhere? (Schematics are one thing, I remember downloading lots of info on various things such as DMA controller specs etc. a few years ago, and theamount of conflicting information out there made it rather difficult to get anywhere!! :) ta Jules

27 years, 11 months

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my first computer, game of "life"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in "Scientific American" I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8 states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell. The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a later 4MHz Z-80 program! I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the 74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally 3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays. It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was about 35 + 6 for the generation counter. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

i live in the USA, but already have the PC mike

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 8:31 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >> oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be >> dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, >> checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost >> impossable to get a hold of...... > >I have schematics for these drives (in the IBM O&A TechRef) and the Tandy >instructions for aligning the single-sided version. So I think we can get >them working. > >You say they're 'dead'. How dead? Why you access them, does the motor >start. Does the spindle rotate? Does the head carriage move to track 0 >when you first boot up the machine (turn off, move the head towards the >spindle, turn on). Does the LED come on? > >Or do they seem to work, and go through all the motions, but give you >data errors? > >> >> >> >> > >-tony > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm I get nothing out of them, no motor spin up, no led, no nothing...................

27 years, 11 months

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Coleco and Sensation

by allisonp＠world.std.com

This is one of countless reasons that I regard the ADAM as not much more <than a cruel joke ;) CP/M on a cassette based system? And one which <uses a non-standard cassette format (off-the-shelf tapes won't work)... <How many CP/M apps were produced in "Digital Data Pack" format? Any? It was an attempt to produce a system that was low cost but still have a block device (disk usually). The tapes were digital casette and was a standard format for the time. It was however an interesting machine. I'd love to find one and/or the prints for it. I'm interested in how they did the tape system. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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RS-232 port with modem?

by archive＠navix.net

I have an old PC compatible computer and I also have a 14.4 Data/Fax modem that uses the RS-232 port with the cable. My question is: how can I get the two of them to work together. Can I use just a simple term program to log onto a Unix host? How do I tell the computer that I want it to check for the modem/phone line via the RS-232 port. My computer also has a 2400 baud modem that isn't in use. Thanks for any help! -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

27 years, 11 months

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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by archive＠navix.net

Hi: I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. It is a 386 I believe, 3.5" floppy drive, 80 something meg hard drive, black and white LCD VGA display running Windows 3.1. Here's what I am looking for, or at least some advice on where to direct this help request to. 1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the battery with it won't charge. The battery I have is made by Toshiba and is model # PA2404U. Please let me know if you have one of these or know where I could find one! 2) Modem. It has a 2400 baud modem with it. It is of the more modern style (I think) in that the modem is a small card that inserts in the side. It is labeled T24M - Modem - 2400 BPS - MNP5. On the back is PC22-T24M. Here's the problem... there is a small 'port' that supposedly is used for a special cable to connect the phone line to. It doesn'e have the cable for the modem to the phone line. I am interested in knowing where I may be able to find this special cable to be able to use this modem. Also curious to know if the model of laptop will handle new laptop modems. I know that many modern laptops use this type of modem (slide in card), and would be willing to just get a new modem if I can't find this special cable for this particular modem. 3) Additional memory: It has 2 meg of RAM internally. In addition, there is a 2 meg card, similar to the modem, that slides in on the opposite side of the laptop. It is labeled Enhance Memory Products, Inc., TMC02 2MB -- my question is: can I add additional memory... a larger card? Are newer laptop memory cards compatible with this computer Anyway help would be greatly appreciated. If you have some of the above items, please let me know and include the price you're willing to sell it for. Also, a pointer to a better place to take this request to (is there such a place? :-) would also be much appreciated! Thanks, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\|

27 years, 11 months

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Coleco and Sensation

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Could someone describe to me the Colecovision family entertainment system? It's a dual cassette deck with expansion ports, cartridge ports, a phone jack, and 9-pin ports. Processor? RAM? Also, I saw a Tandy Sensation (I think) system. Not quite classic, it's and MPC 1 machine, looks like a DECpc. Has anyone known it? Lastly, I saw an Apple //c setup guide. Why does it say only to use the computer propped up by the handle? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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FW: FREE VAX3900!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Dang... it's ads like this that make me wish, sometimes, that I were a lot closer to the midwest.... Anyway... if you're in a better position than me, and want to give a good home to a darn good VAXen (definitely late-model), get in touch with this guy. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Message-ID: <356CD657.852FEBD4(a)sysman-inc.com> Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 22:13:27 -0500 From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy(a)sysman-inc.com> Reply-To: levy(a)sysman-inc.com Organization: System Management Associates, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,misc.computers.forsale Subject: VAX 3900 Free for the taking Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.100.242.150 Lines: 24 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!chicago-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.dls.net!209.100.242.150 Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.os.vms:2601 comp.sys.dec:928 misc.computers.forsale:317 Available immediately: VAX 3900, 32Mb, no licenses. KDB50 Ethernet KLESI (2) RA90 (2) RA70 Emulex UC07 SCSI controller TU81+ Complete only. Removing any part diminishes the value of the rest, and I don't want to have to scrap it. 20 Miles north of Chicago. You pick it up or pay for shipping. Serious inquiries only. -- Mark E. Levy System Management Associates, Inc. OpenVMS, MacOS, Windows 95/NT, Networks levy(a)sysman-inc.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} js d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 11 months

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Locking RL-02 Heads

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<There's a little locking clip inside the drive assembly that holds the <heads in place mechanically. Just flip it over the end of the retracted <head assembly and tighten it with a screwdriver. that would be the early model RL02s. The later ones it was a plastic spring loaded arrangement that was pushed out of the way by installing the pack. Transport all of them without a pack installed. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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PS/2 items FS/Trade

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

I have about half a dozen PS/2 model 55SX machines that I need to sell or trade. They're all in excellent working condition with hard drive, floppy drive, built in video/com/lpt/mouse ports. Can accept up to 16mb of ram and runs a 386SX-16 processor. These are tested and in good physical and working condition. Just add SIMMs, keyboard, mouse and monitor. Great replacement for a flaky unit or to add a machine for the kids. All have MS-DOS 6.2 on the hard drive. Reference/Setup disk included. Asking $30 each plus shipping. The Dallas realtime clock chip on the board or even the floppy drive are worth that alone. Trades of other IBM ISA, MCA or VLB equipment will be considered. I also have 55SX motherboards in great condition for $10 each plus shipping. Shipped in foam padded mailer with setup/reference disk. Just open your dead machine and replace the board. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

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old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??)

by bill.sheehan＠stoneweb.com

I'm now on my fourth set of batteries for Toby-San, my T1000. The latest set was purchased from 1-800-Batteries, a company that seems to have every size and style of laptop and camera battery ever dreamed of. You can find them on the web at http://www.800batteries.com. -- BIll Sheehan Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> on 05/29/98 02:53:59 AM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: (bcc: Bill Sheehan/Corporate/SWEC) Subject: Re: old Toshiba laptop help (on topic??) At 12:59 AM 5/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi: > >I just picked up an older style laptop that I need some hlp on. It is >a Toshiba T2200SX laptop. It is a 386 I believe, 3.5" floppy drive, >80 something meg hard drive, black and white LCD VGA display running >Windows 3.1. Here's what I am looking for, or at least some advice on >where to direct this help request to. > >1) I need a battery for this unit. I have the power supply, but the >battery with it won't charge. The battery I have is made by Toshiba >and is model # PA2404U. Please let me know if you have one of these >or know where I could find one! Cord, Your chances of finding another battery are slim. Even if you find one it will be old and probably won't last long. My suggestion is to take it to one of the battery places that rebuild batteries and have them replace the cells in your old battery. There is a place in Sanford, Florida that I have used a lot and that I'm very happy with. Their name is TNR, I don't have their phone number handy but you can get it from directory info. They use good quality batteries so their batteries will usually last a lot longer than the original ones since the OEMs usually use the cheapest junk they can find. Joe

27 years, 11 months

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Locking RL-02 Heads

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Quick question, how does one make sure the heads of a RL-02 drive are locked? I'm supposed to be picking one up this weekend (mainly for the Q-Bus controller and diskpacks). I want to make sure I transport it correctly since I might need it for my PDP-11/44 (still don't know the state of it's drives. On another note, anyone have any recommendations on where to get some RAM boards for a /44? Once I have the packs that will be the only thing I'll need (assuming everything works). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

2
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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > So, indeed, you're talking about a keyboard buffer, only intelligent > and on a much larger scale. Or multiprocessing. Maybe Tim is, but on reflection (no pun) I'm not. The terminal acts as a buffer for the data, not for the keyboard. The keyboard is used to make changes to the data in the buffer and initiate the transfer of the changed data back to the 3000. The keystrokes themselves don't get sent to the 3000, only the edited data. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Looking for Osborne I or Executive

by jvaverysm＠sprintmail.com

I'm looking for an operational Osborne I or Executive CPM machine to operate or restore. If you know of one I would be interested. Thanks! Joe Avery jvaverysm(a)sprintmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 1:58 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 02:40 PM 5/27/98 +1000, you wrote: >Desie, > > Let me know if you want some. There's plenty of them here in the trift >stores. I can buy the entire PC for about $5. If you want some drives and >are willing to pay the cost ($5) and shipping (?), I'll get some for you. > > Joe > > >> >>oh well with my 5150 it has two FH IBM drives in i and they both seem to be >>dead, Ive replaced the controllor card check the dips, >>checked power output, it seems here in Austrlaia these drives are almost >>impossable to get a hold of...... >> >> >> >> > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm where abouts do you live?? to ship from anywhere other than within Austrlaia would cost a small furtune considering the weight of a IBM PC

27 years, 11 months

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Compaq Portable in OZ?????

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Adam Jenkins <adam(a)merlin.net.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 12:04 Subject: Re: Compaq Portable in OZ????? > >>anyone on this list in OZ have a original Compaq Portable they want to >>sell/trade or give away?? > >Are you still after one? What are you after generally? I might have a >lead on one, but I am inclined to keep my own unless it is for something >urgent. :) > >Adam. > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm Im looking for a original Compaq Portable the first one, (1981-1982) I have 2 x Compaq Portable IIs and I love them.............

27 years, 11 months

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Coleco and Sensation

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-28 21:20:23 EDT, you write: << I believe it wants you to use the \\c propped up on the handle because it will air out better. They didn't have as good fans as they do now in those days. I'm not sure though. That computer is before my time (i'm only 12). I'll check in my \\c manual though. mike >> because the //c was compact and had more capabilities in it than the //e, i guess it runs much hotter so propping it up by the handle allows more air access for cooling. i never had a problem with it though. i thought the pivoting handle was just to tilt the keyboard for certain typists. david

27 years, 11 months

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Fwd: Coleco and Sensation

by icyblackhand＠hotmail.com

I believe it wants you to use the \\c propped up on the handle because it will air out better. They didn't have as good fans as they do now in those days. I'm not sure though. That computer is before my time (i'm only 12). I'll check in my \\c manual though. mike

27 years, 11 months

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Help identify this not-so-classic board

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I searched and came up blank! is that the part number or fru number? are you sure thats the board number, or just a number for one of the components? In a message dated 98-05-28 17:41:47 EDT, you write: << trying to find some info about an IBM ISA SCSI board which has the following part number etched onto it 75H8895. This group seems to have the most diverse resources of any I've seen so I figured I'd give it a try and hope someone's got some info. Any info on this not too classic board would be appreciated. >>

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > Good question. I have a couple of 150s and I have WS for the 150 but my > disks have bit rot :-( Last time I was in Sunnyvale, CA I found a pile of WordStar 3.24 distribution kits at Weird Stuff Warehouse. I payed (IIRC) $2 for the one I wagged off. There were several other copies. They're marked "CP/M-86 or MS-DOS" or somesuch only because it's not obvious from the documentation which version it is; the one I bought is for MS-DOS and I presume the remaining ones are as well. I picked up a copy of Desqview/X there, too. It's a good thing I don't live in Silicon Valley; Weird Stuff Warehouse would get all my money. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

How would you tell a prototype from the conversion? thanks Kai -----Original Message----- From: KFergason [mailto:KFergason@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:19 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. I always wondered what happened to them. Kelly In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life > depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of > IIe cases. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze >

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

So, indeed, you're talking about a keyboard buffer, only intelligent and on a much larger scale. Or multiprocessing. >> Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it >> processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it >> work? >I think the comment you're talking about was directly related to >HP3000 full screen editors; these generally need a HP terminal >that's capable of block-mode operations. This means that >the terminal is capable of simple on-screen editing tasks by itself, >and transmits a bunch of changes to the computer only when the >computer needs to ask for the accumulated changes. > >This is very different than the mindset in the microcomputer and Unix >world, where it is expected that the main CPU will want to devote >attention to each and every keystroke typed by every user, and then >the main CPU will devote all its effort (for a little while) to >echoing this single character. This simply isn't the way >things are done on mainframes and "heavy-duty" mincomputer OS's. > >Tim. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Help identify this not-so-classic board

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

I'm trying to find some info about an IBM ISA SCSI board which has the following part number etched onto it 75H8895. This group seems to have the most diverse resources of any I've seen so I figured I'd give it a try and hope someone's got some info. Any info on this not too classic board would be appreciated. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | | 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

27 years, 11 months

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SUN equipment (x-post)

by rhblake＠bbtel.com

Pulled this from the web, and I know there are Sun users that might be interested in these. Email Pat direct if interested... ................................................................................................................................ Pat Stakem <stakem(a)loyola.edu> Columbia, Md - Wednesday, May 27, 1998 at 12:18:02 I have 5-10 spare Sun workstation video monitor cables (about 1 meter long, and 13w3 standard). also, 5-10 spare type 4 keyboards, with optical mice. email me if interested. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by dastar＠wco.com

Check out Tandy's version of history from their web page: "1977 TRS-80 Model I Personal Computer introduced. (First mass-marketed personal computer. In contrast to build-it-yourself computers available at the time, the TRS-80 was fully-wired and tested. Sold at a breakthrough price of $599. More than 200,000 TRS-80 computers were sold from 1977 to 1981.)" Ok, let's conveniently forget about the Apple ][. This is the most blatant denial of reality and outright lie I've ever seen a company publicly endorse. "1980 TRS-80 Model 100 Portable Computer introduced. (First computer ever to feature five programs and a telephone modem built-in. Used by journalists throughout the world.)" First I question the year (I know it was later than 1980). This claim is dubious at best. Mostly its broad and irrelevant. It seems they're trying so hard to make this seem like a breakthrough (it was) that they forgot to mention the real reasons why. "1984 Tandy 1000 Personal Computer introduced. (First PC-compatible personal computer. Within one year, the Tandy 1000 became the best-selling PC-compatible computer.)" God, what a load of chicken turds. I think they missed this distinction by 3 years and umpteen other companies. I'd like to kick the guy who wrote all this crap in the nuts. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

27 years, 11 months

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Steve Wozniak home page

by stephen.j.gabaly＠lmco.com

For anyone that's interested Steve Wozniak has a home page at www.woz.org <http://www.woz.org> . He has a digital camera in his office which you can point and zoom to see what he is up too, just click on the wozcam button. His email address is also there, I have emailed him several times about questions I had on the early days of Apple, he responded quickly (few minutes). Generally if he can answer the question off the top of his head, he will, otherwise he will politely tell you he is too busy. I think I have used up my quota of questions for the year so perhaps someone on this discussion group can organized a question of the month so he won't get bombarded with a hundred questions and change his email address. Just a thought. steve

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At 10:42 5/28/98 -0700, Roger wrote: <>Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona <>could do any video attribute Wordstar ever dreamed of.... < <Nice keyboard, too. Visual 1050 had all the char modes and graphics as well. The keyboard is better than many. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it > processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it > work? Tim's answer got part of it. Here's some more of the picture, maybe in gorier detail than you wanted to know. Many HP terminals are somewhat intelligent and can be told (via escape sequence or strap setting) to operate in "block mode", where the terminal buffers data in its local display memory and lets the user do local editing of it there. There can also be protected and unprotected fields, which basically turn the display into a fill-in form where the user can type in the unprotected fields and not in the protected fields. Some keys (ENTER (not RETURN) and the function keys) will still initiate a transfer to the host computer. How that works is a collection of fiddly little details but I'm going to try to describe it in terms of the DC1/DC2/DC1 block-mode handshake. Once the form has been sent to the terminal by the application (which basically sends escape sequences and text to set up the block mode, the form, and the unprotected fields), the application starts a read. The terminal I/O system then sends a DC1 (control-Q) to the terminal so the terminal knows there's a read pending. When the user presses ENTER or a function key to tell the terminal to send the form, the terminal sends a DC2 (control-R) to the host as an indication that there's a block of data ready for transmission. The host does whatever it needs to do to get ready for the block (this was important in the days of the Series II/III which used a terminal controller that couldn't handle all 16 ports sending 2400 bps data at the same time) and then sends another DC1 as a go-ahead, and the terminal sends an escape sequence for the pressed key followed by the block of data (usually the data from the unprotected fields on the form, separated by field-separator (FS) characters, and finishing up with a record-separator (RS) character). The terminal won't send anything more 'til it sees another DC1 from the host. OK, well, that's about what you see on the wire if you stick a serial line analyzer in between the 3000 and a terminal, and watch as an application written using one of the more popular block-mode application subroutine libraries (VIEW aka V/3000 aka VPLUS/3000) is in use. Later 3000s have terminal controllers that can handle full speed on all ports, and they can use a simplified block-mode handshake (i.e. the 3000 sends the initial DC1, and the terminal just sends the block when the user presses ENTER or a function key). The goal of all this was, as Tim said, getting a rather slow HP3000 to run a surprisingly big bunch of terminals doing transactions against data on the 3000. The 3000 didn't have to do any work for the user until the user had the transaction edited on the screen, in particular it didn't have to respond to every user keystroke, and as the terminal didn't have anything better to do it could respond to the user's keystrokes right away. There were also some full-screen editors that relied on the terminal to buffer lines of text and let you do your editing in the terminal. Those I used tended to run in line block mode (vs. VIEW which I think used page block mode) where once the user pressed ENTER the host would home the cursor and start sending escape sequences ("<ESC>d" I think, followed by a DC1 once the read was pending) to get the terminal to send the current line 'til it got to the bottom. Feel free to ask questions about this if you want to know more. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> > HPWORD was actually a little more WYSIWYG than, say, Wordstar, because > the terminal actually had bold and italic faces and underlining > features. Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline, strikethrough, bold, etc. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 11 months

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VAX 785 Backplane Schematic

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Anyone have the printset describing the VAX 785 CPU backpanel? I'd be interested in a scan of it... -------

27 years, 11 months

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More stuff acquired

by jon＠techniche.com

Hi, I've not participated much since I joined this mail group a number of weeks back, so I thought I'd make myself heard. A few of you seem to be pretty familiar with HP equipment so maybe you can tell me what I have (or have not) here. I pick up a box of junk at the local recycler several weeks ago. It caught my eye because it has some microprocessor emulator pods. In the box were the following: Z8002 emulation pod, HP part # 64233A (says use with 64271A) Z80 emulation pod, HP part # 64252A (says use with 64251A) 6801/6803 pod, HP part # 64256A (says use with 64255A) also the following boards: 64300/66501 internal analysis bd 64154/66501 Static Ram board (only one of 4 rows has sockets installed) 64152/66501 Static Ram board (All 4 rows socketed and populated) [both of the above have 2147 memory chips] 64211/66501 680x Control board I called HP and asked what the pod normally connect to, just in case it was still down at the surplus store and I had overlooked it. HP says that they would normally be used with a "frame" (?) i.e. some sort of general purpose analyzer having a part number of 29000 or 29120 (these two number are from memory since I can't find my notes at the moment where I wrote down the two numbers. It was either 29000 or 59000 but I'm pretty sure it was 29000). I was attracted to the emualtion pods because they looked like they had never been used. All of the pins appeared to be straight and intact. There was protective foam one each pod. What can you guys tell me about these? I'm thinking that without the frame they are not very useful to me. Perhaps they're worth something in trade? Thanks, Jon

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"D. Peschel" <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> writes: > I hope the invitation isn't directed at only one person. :) Nope. > One thing I realized from the exposure (and have since read about) is > that the local editing features are usually horribly limited, _and_ > they're impossible to extend unless you modify the hardware. What > kind of local editing do the HP terminals provide? (Any fancy cursor > movement keys, line editing, cut- and-paste, etc.?) I'm trying to get > a feeling for how well the HP editors stack up against more modern > ones. The line editor sounds pretty nice, actually. (I use vi -- > which is the same kind of full-screen line editor -- a lot. The > navigation commands are nice and quick.) For what passes for full-screen editing, the display is pretty much something you can type on. Cursor movements available are up, down, left, right, page up, page down, home (top-of-buffer), and end-of-buffer. Typing defaults to type-over but there is an insert-char mode that you can turn on and off from the keyboard. If you do this, wrapping is kind of simple (it will open up a new next-line and wrap characters onto that as they go past the right margin). Also you can delete characters from the keyboard (but this does not un-wrap wrapped characters). It's also possible to delete lines and add blank lines, and clear to end-of-display. Not cut-and-paste, though; well, if you can use the memory lock feature of the terminal you might be able to do it but some of the full-screen editors used it in a way such that if you tried to use it you would screw things up and lose work. Things are somewhat different if protected fields are set up; those will limit character insertion and deletion. > I mentioned reading... there are stories about people trying to > combine full-screen interactive editing with local terminal editing, > and finding that the two don't mix. The people usually bit the > bullet, invested in the extra hardware, and gave the workload back to > the CPU. I think there was an enhanced version of TECO at Stanford > that falls into this category. I know that Emacs on MULTICS was > developed like that. Mind pointing me to some of those stories. HP did something odd in the early-mid 1980s: HPWORD. This was a word processing system for the HP3000 that used 2626W (and later, 2628A and HP150) terminals as intelligent front-ends. When you first started HPWORD after turning the terminal on, it would spend about 10 minutes downloading code to the terminal, and then the downloaded code ran the interface and the communications link back to the HPWORD process on the 3000. I was told at the time that the terminal handled processing up to the paragraph level, and got the 3000 to do anything larger. HPWORD was actually a little more WYSIWYG than, say, Wordstar, because the terminal actually had bold and italic faces and underlining features. And it was nifty because you could queue up a print job >from one terminal to a printer connected to another HPWORD terminal; the backing HPWORDs running on the 3000 would talk to each other and get the document printed. Oh, and someone could be typing on the terminal that had the printer connected. All in all, it was a cheaper solution than PCs in the 1983-1984 time frame when we bought into it -- we didn't have to buy a printer for every workstation, and we didn't have to pick a PC LAN with lots of funny cabling. > Personally, I found the local editing completely inadequate for > dealing with the multicolumn file lists and pop-up windows the AS/400 > kept putting onscreen. Using only arrow keys to move the cursor to > precise places all over the screen was a real chore. The designs of > input and display just didn't match ewll. Yeah, and back then I used to switch between editors depending on the job at hand. Some things just work better with good old EDIT/3000, and even for editing code I liked QUAD. Later when I went to work at Wollongong I discovered Voodoo on the 3000 there and got kind of used to it; it tries to be vi-like but the inherent inability of the 3000's terminal I/O to accept characters without a pending read (and to do anything else while there is a pending read) really got in its way sometimes. Now I just use Emacs (though not on the 3000), and quite frankly I do think it works better. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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IBM SYSTEM 36 IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA NEEDS LOVING HOME

by Marty＠itgonline.com

An IBM System 36 (Type 5336 or Type 5360 depending on whom you speak to) is available free in Richmond, Virginia at CW Wright Construction Company. Contact Vaughn Atkinson or Bob Jennings @ 804-768-1054 for more details. Marty

27 years, 11 months

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DEC Rainbow available in Cambridge UK

by kevan＠heydon.org

Hi, I have a DEC Rainbow that I want to pass onto another collector. I live in Cambridge UK, and while I can deliver for a short distance collection would be the best as there are quite a few manuals that go with it. Drop me an email if you are interested -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/

27 years, 11 months

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HP 9000/217 available in Cambridge UK

by kevan＠heydon.org

Hi, I have a HP 9000/217 that I want to pass onto another collector. As with the Rainbow previously, it would be best if you could collect from Cambridge UK, but I could be persuaded to deliver as long as it's not too far away. To see a picture of the machine in question go to: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/manufacturer-hp/9000_217.html Drop me an email if you are interested. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/

27 years, 11 months

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Processing data in blocks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it work? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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FW: Fellow's looking for old DEC HW...

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. If you can help, please contact the author directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: Kerry Davis <kdavis(a)flatland.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Any PDP-12/15/whatever to be had? Date: 27 May 1998 03:43:00 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <6kgqnk$cdr(a)nntp02.primenet.com> X-Posted-By: kdavis(a)207.218.4.36 (yab) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!calwebnntp!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail I had some neat old gear once, that I enjoyed playing with. Including a couple PDP-12s, 15s, 8s, a Linc-8... quite a variety actually. Anyone know of any place with some stuff like that available, for sale? I'd like to have some of that again, both for my own enjoyment and to be able to show some people how things used to be. Kerry Davis Phoenix, Arizona kdavis(a)bbs.yab.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} js d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 11 months

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Linux login (OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I know there are some linux users, so if you know the answer, please respond privately. How do I make it so that someone can login remotely over a terminal? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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11/34a Thanx..

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, muchas gracias to Mr. Duell; I have one of my 11s out of deep sleep and talking to it's console. For any who have followed this sequence.. the problems resolved to a) bad BA11 (PSUs good, something else is wrong) b) the old grant continuity confusion, and finally c) a bad RS232 cable I put in the line to the console VT100 to extend it a bit. So now, I have one 11/34 computer running, with an RX02 (but no bootable media for it) and two RK05s, neither of which work at the moment.... but that's the next hurdle. Actually, I have configured a single RK as unit 0 and terminated it. The *problem* is something in the control logic preventing the unit from spinning up the disc and coming into ready. So I'm kneeling on the floor under the drive with a voltmeter and a scope, trying to find where the chain is broken. At least I have extender cards.... Again, many many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to offer advice... it was correct and successful. More later as the situation progresses.. Cheers John

27 years, 11 months

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11/34a help #3

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thanks first to all who have offered help and advice. (Re: sacrifices... roosters have psitticosis and mites, and as for virgins... c'mon guys, I'm in *California*.... <g>) The computer works; the disk drives don't. Armed with the printsets for the drive and the controller, and assisted by the Group, I am reasonably certain that thr RK05 itself is in good shape. I have simulated all it's 'ready' conditions and it's fine. I have changed (twice... aarrghhh) the interface cable... all same. The RK05 thinks that DCLO is asserted. "Forcing' DCLO at the drive makes it work. I have measured DCLO and ACLO at the RK11D backplane.. they are at +5V. In the drive, +30VAC is good into the control card. On the RK11D, I have traced DCLO to the wirewrap pins, and it appears good. I have yet to figure out the path DCLO takes thru the RK11 stack. This problem has been most baffling so far because DCLO originates in the RK05 and in the RK11 and in the BA-11.. so it's a multiple-varible with a commaon symptom. I seem to be converging on it, but if anything jumps out at someone with some actual field experience with these devices... it might save me a few more hours of discovering all the various places where the problem "isn't". ;} To Tony Duell: thanks for the e-mail.. I did indeed verify the itms you mentioned... the 'interlock' circuits are working, microswitches good, etc. ALSO: I would love to have a pointer to the D11W SLU/LTC card switch settings... at least the baud rate stuff... I want to use my LA120 as a console rather than the VT100... getting Unix going is next after the drives a working, and I want hard copy for that. I have looked and not found this particular info on the Net so far. Cheers to all John

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I dunno about this... but I seem to remember a mention of a sticker... >either green or orange. That, and look on the boards/chips and see what you >can find... if you have a IIe, look for things that that shold have... lets >see... check for stuff like 'prototype' or something. Or, if anyone knows >it, the IIGS's code name... The Apple IIgs was code named "Cortland", "Phoenix", "Rambo", and "Gumby". Tom Owad

27 years, 11 months

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More stuff acquired

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > An HP Integral PC. I didn't much pay attention to the one Frank M. > brought to VCF 1.0 so it was all new to me when I actually started messing > with this one. I couldn't get it to do anything useful though. How do I > drop out of PAM and into a shell? This one has a 1Meg RAM Carrier and a > Serial Interface. Well, it also helps to have a shell. That's why I also brought that 9134 disc drive -- it has the development set loaded on it, which makes it behave a bit more like a Un*x box. Failing that, PAM has a little bit of shell functionality in it. You can use it to look at text files, also you can get a list of files in your current directory by typing "echo *" in its command-line area. (No, PAM doesn't show you everything.) ... Tony mentioned HP-IL and that made me think of what I've been plodding through today: a box full of HP-41 and HP-IL documentation. Shame I didn't grab any of the hardware (other folks did, and left the manuals -- so far as hardware I was concentrating on 9114s that I knew I could use with my Portable Plus and some other little bits), but maybe next time I cross the path of some I'll have a better idea of what to look for. So what have I got? Well, thus far: The HP-IL Interface Specification p/n 82166-90017, Nov 1982 HP 00041-15043 HP-IL Development Module Owner's Manual p/n 00041-90449 Rev B, Oct 1984 1LB3-0003 The HP-IL Integrated Circuit User's Manual p/n 82166-90016 Rev B, Nov 1983 HP 82166C The HP-IL Interface Kit Technical Guide p/n 82166-90020 Rev B, May 1983 HP 82166A HP-IL Converter Technical Manual p/n 82166-90002, Nov 1982 HP 82165A HP-IL/GPIO Interface HP 81266A HP-IL Converter Manual Supplement p/n 82165-90012, Oct 1982 OK, that is what I found in the first binder. Somehow I have a feeling I'm gonna wish I had Tony's clues by the time I get done with this. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Apple modification

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

it's my understanding that the //c's ps will work with the laser. i think the connection is the same, and the voltages are slightly different, but close enough to get it to work. In a message dated 98-05-27 15:04:32 EDT, you write: < >if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or >ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory >expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it >seems. i have two complete systems myself. > >david >

27 years, 11 months

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Apple modification

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think it's an ex, not sure. Can I make a PSU? Is the one for the C64 or //c compatible? > >if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or >ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory >expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it >seems. i have two complete systems myself. > >david > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I dunno about this... but I seem to remember a mention of a sticker... either green or orange. That, and look on the boards/chips and see what you can find... if you have a IIe, look for things that that shold have... lets see... check for stuff like 'prototype' or something. Or, if anyone knows it, the IIGS's code name... Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 7:58 PM Subject: RE: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >How would you tell a prototype from the conversion? > >thanks > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: KFergason [mailto:KFergason@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:19 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? > > > >I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. >I always wondered what happened to them. > >Kelly > >In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, >photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > >> I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life >> depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of >> IIe cases. >> Ciao, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >>

27 years, 11 months

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A 10 yr old Burroughs

by manney＠lrbcg.com

The following equipment is available, thanks to the Y2K harvest. I have no idea what else comes with this (software, I presume) -- B28-CPU 80286 processor B25-CPU 80186 processor module B27-CLS Cluster Workstation CPU (2 available) B27-CPU Master Workstation CPU B25-M4-90 90 MB Winc with 5 1/4" B25-MC6-85 85 MB ECC Winc w/o fl. B25-MX5-85 85MB Exp. W/o Floppy B25-TS .25" Tape Streamer AP1351-1 100-400 CPS, 132 col. printer (2 avail) B25-PC PC Emulator control slice B25-M4-50 40/50 MB disc, 5 1/4" fl MF-422 422 MB 380 0-180 cps 80 col. printer 391+ 90-270 cps 123 col. printer Anyone interested? manney(a)lrbcg.com

27 years, 11 months

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Old tape

by william＠ans.net

(mostly for Mr. Shoppa, but others may have insight) The old RCA tape I had mentioned is in fact larger that 1/2". It looks a bit like 3/4". It is not video tape, as the reel says "RCA Electronic Data Processing 501". A small paper label also has "BPROG", and a date from 1964. God only knows what is on this tape, and if it could still be read! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:44 PM 5/26/98 +1000, you wrote: >I have one question , well I actually have two...... >though, what software came on cassetes? >and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >makes them die??? I dunno about IBM PC cassette-based software, but lots of other systems used them... (I remember Atari's Infamous christmas cassettes, including "The Spy who came in from the Code"... Iirc, the IBM FH floppies were belt driven... The belts slipped a lot. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 27 May 1998 5:29 Subject: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! > >It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. > >Perhaps it's something Apple did for the educational market, to make it look >like the other machines they were used to, and incorporating a built-in >keyboard which would be less fragile than the multi-piece regular IIgs >series. > >Anybody ever heard of these? > >Kai > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes this was a official upgrade from Apple, Ive done one of these in the past............ you could upgrade any of the older IIs to the gs.

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by KFergason＠aol.com

I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. I always wondered what happened to them. Kelly In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life > depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of > IIe cases. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze >

27 years, 11 months

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Apple modification

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-26 23:11:39 EDT, you write: << > Laser 128? It's being offered for $25 at a thrift shop w/o PSU. Lastly, >> if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it seems. i have two complete systems myself. david

27 years, 11 months

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Apple modification

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a little dilemma here. For one thing, I have an Apple //c. I am being offered an Apple ][+ (I think) for free that has a Digital Research z-80 card in it,with manual, as well as an external keyboard kludge. There is also software. However, there is an issue with space. Is there any way to modify the Apple //c to make it take expansion cards? Should I just take the ][+? Also, how much should I pay for a Laser 128? It's being offered for $25 at a thrift shop w/o PSU. Lastly, does anyone have a Z-80 card for the //c? They were made by Applied Engineering and were inserted into the processor socket. I have them in an old AE catalog. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of IIe cases. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: D. Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 4:18 AM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >> It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >> exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. > >As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- >to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that >upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). > >I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. > >Do you have the normal //e-size monitor? That would be an advantage over the >stock //gs. Do you also have the same //e keyboard? Has it been converted to >use ADB? I always liked the feel of the //e's keyboard better than the //gs' >little keyboard. But if the upgrade's keyboard isn't modular like the regular >//gs, that would be a disadvantage in some ways. > >-- Derek

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Seems like a cool find. Historically, all such upgrades have been 90% of the purchase price for a new machine -- up to and including Apple's more recent PowerMac upgrade boards, so I'm not surprised that it's rare. If it's a mag like Byte or kilobaud, I'd love to know the issue #. Kai -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE [mailto:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 7:02 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? yes indeedy, apple provided an upgrade path for //e users. for $500 you got a new gs planar, and a sticker that replaced the lower case apple //e one with //gs. of course, one of the caveats is you didnt get ADB and seperate keyboard. i dont think many people upgraded due to the price. i have an old magazine that had a writeup about the upgrade. if anyone's that interested i can look up details or make copies. message me privately. david In a message dated 98-05-26 21:15:04 EDT, you write: << > It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks > exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. >>

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:46 PM 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >> Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >> installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively > >That's absurd (bordering on perverse) -- what could you DO with a machine >like that? (Yes, run BASIC and use cassettes... I know.) In my day, sonny, 16K was plenty of room. Back then, we knew how to program. It was an art. Not like the kids today, with their megabytes and Gooeys and write-once-read-many, magneto-optical, doohickies... (whups, gotta go, time for maaaatttlooock!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

yes indeedy, apple provided an upgrade path for //e users. for $500 you got a new gs planar, and a sticker that replaced the lower case apple //e one with //gs. of course, one of the caveats is you didnt get ADB and seperate keyboard. i dont think many people upgraded due to the price. i have an old magazine that had a writeup about the upgrade. if anyone's that interested i can look up details or make copies. message me privately. david In a message dated 98-05-26 21:15:04 EDT, you write: << > It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks > exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. >>

27 years, 11 months

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Best way to read N* disks??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Allison/Marvin: Thanks. I was afraid that it was a problem that software couldn't manage around. Right now, my N* is non-working (actually, it hasn't worked since I got it), but I was trying to examine what was contained on the diskettes. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. Perhaps it's something Apple did for the educational market, to make it look like the other machines they were used to, and incorporating a built-in keyboard which would be less fragile than the multi-piece regular IIgs series. Anybody ever heard of these? Kai

27 years, 11 months

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FW: Fellow needs a VAXen in NYC -- anyone?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. Contact Mr. Tarka directly if you can help. Thanks. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: Mark Tarka <tarka(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: WTB small VAX/VMS system, NYC area Message-ID: <009C6C1A.8500DE82.26(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:35:52 MDT Organization: Info-Vax<==>Comp.Os.Vms Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 14 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax I've got to be in NYC on personal business in early June. Anyone in NYC or within the commuting area have a _small_ vax/vaxstation/uvax to donate or sell? I'm interested mainly in a box, with any external storage devices (disk, tape), working or repairable, and documentation. The system has to be somewhat compliant with whatever passes for standard I/O to the external environment (a 3100 for example would be a bad idea :-) Mark -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} js d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 11 months

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Transformers

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

>> reservation is the fact that it doesn't have a ground plug. I'm sure I >> can just pass the ground connection on from the computer to my wall outlet >> since the ground lead is attached directly to the computer case, no? >> Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> said: >Exactly. And when you do that, also ground the frame/core of the >transformer, just in case the insulation ever breaks down. Isn't this step-up transformer also acting as an isolation transformer, isolating the secondary from ground? I thought that meant that you didn't not need a ground because secondary of the transformer has no relationship to ground. I'd like to find out because I use one with my Mitsubishi MoveMaster robot. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

27 years, 11 months

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HP Portable Plus

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > Thanks, changing the jumper and hitting reset did the trick. I needed to > reformat the RAM disk after the reset, but I have a couple of "advanced > mail" apps in ROM that seem to expect files to be present on the RAM disk. > Is there some special way to setup the ROM apps, or do I manually create > directories and files as I get errors? That would be AdvanceMail. I vaguely remember that you do have to create something for it to make it not complain. Not that it's real useful -- I think you need to have something for it to connect to, and while I know there was some way to make it talk to HPDeskManager on the HP3000s I don't think it ever got updated to talk anything like POP3 or QWK packets or what have you. Nevertheless there seem to be a lot of Portable Pluses out there with the AdvanceMail software, and I can only guess that is because HP was using HPDeskManager for its internal e-mail network until two or three? years ago and found it useful to equip a lot of its internal-use Pluses with AdvanceMail. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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HP Portable Plus

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball > power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that > fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I > don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus > care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? If you took a close look at your 9114 supply you might find that its output is 8V*AC*. No polarity to worry about. First, try to turn it on with the return key. Just press it once, wait, try again (sometimes mine don't notice on the first press). If all is well that will get you to a PAM screen, and from there you can turn it off again with f8. If you open the battery door (center rear) you will find a jumper and a tiny switch. The switch is full-reset-zap-everything. The jumper is what connects the battery to the rest of the system, and may be set incorrectly if the unit is never-used or someone clueful stored it with the knowledge that it wouldn't be used for a while. Of course I can't remember which way is "correct" and my Pluses are being difficult w/r/t door removal this morning. Ah, there we go. The jumper fits over a three-pin header, and the pin to the right (assuming you're facing the back, so the one on the Ctrl-key side of the Plus) should be exposed for normal operation (the other two should be connected with the jumper). Shift-Stop is the two-fingered "reboot" salute. It's safer than the switch in back. Note the "AAAAAA" or "BBBBBB" line that it spits out during this exercise, that tells you what version of the base ROMs are installed. ... Hans Olminkhof asks what the Portable Plus is. Yes, it's the successor to the 110 aka Portable. More RAM, bigger screen, faster modem (1200 vs. 300 bps), "drawers" for RAM and ROM so more customizability -- users could buy different sizes of RAM drawers and buy additional applications in ROMs to install in the ROM drawer, rather than having to load up precious RAM. Also I think there was no built-in Terminal application, instead HP sold a ROM'd version of WRQ's Reflection 1. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:27 5/26/98 -0700, KaiKal wrote: >I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! >It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. What you have there, my friend, is the Apple IIGS UPGRADE, and a lucky man you are. It _is_ a conversion; some intrepid owner made it out of a //e and the Upgrade Kit, which was a new logic board and the case pieces. I've got one, but only one. If you fire it up, I'd be interested to know what revision your ROMs are. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 26 May 1998 3:16 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 01:46 PM 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >>> installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively >> >>That's absurd (bordering on perverse) -- what could you DO with a machine >>like that? (Yes, run BASIC and use cassettes... I know.) > >In my day, sonny, 16K was plenty of room. Back then, we knew how to >program. It was an art. Not like the kids today, with their megabytes and >Gooeys and write-once-read-many, magneto-optical, doohickies... (whups, >gotta go, time for maaaatttlooock!) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > I have one question , well I actually have two...... though, what software came on cassetes? and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that makes them die??? anyone??

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for oldcomputers...)

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>>>I hope that "16K" means "16/64K model" as opposed to "actually equipped >>>with >>>16K of memory." >> >>Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >>installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. So they only had 16K on board, and no empty sockets for expansion to 64K? Or do you mean that they just came with 16K but you could add the rest of the chips yourself? Interestingly enough I seem to remember that there was an unofficial mod that you could make easily to the 256K system boards to take them out to 512K... I don't know if that applied to all the XT 256K boards or not... cheers >Jules

27 years, 11 months

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I need a VAX 785 bootdisk image... Anyone got one?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I need a diskimage for a VAX 785. Doesn't matter (yet) what boots are on it. If you have one, let me know, but DON'T mail it to the toad.xkl.com address, I'll give you another to mail to. (MM doesn't like attachments, and I doubt my terminal like binary files) -------

27 years, 11 months

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Nasty little Sanyo (was Re:Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have some of those in an "Advanced Computer Products" catalog, 1985. $1299. Not much I can say about them. They look kinda like stereo systems and "Sanyo" means "crap" in russian. >Russ/Alice Blakeman wrote: >> >> So it's unanimous - all Sanyo MBC-55x machines, working or not, that >> are not a part of a Camry fender, are to be executed immediately to >> save our planet. > >Well, I have three and while they are not (IMHO) a significant part of >computer history, they do play a part in the scheme of things and thus >are worthwhile keeping. Hmmm, judging by all the comments on this list, >maybe they were a significant part of computer history :). > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, remember that they DIDN'T MAKE $599 per unit, because the cost <production was probably at least $250-350. Then they didn't directly sel <them to end users, but to resellers, for about a $100 max profit... it ad The stores had a margin of something like 35% in '78, it got better with time. Production cost was horrendous at ther start as yeild was less that 30% working systems due to bad design and test procedures. The -69A boards were slightly better than junk. The 69D board and revized assembly and test were still under 80% yeild. But even at that the production cost was in the $100-160 range for the 4k/L1 basic. Design weak points in the TRS-80 were data bus noise, poor memory timing, power and ground noise, no lowercase (all it needed was one ram), common keys missing of the keyboard and the parts count was too high. I had a simplifed design at that time that ran TRS80 l1/l2 basic that was functionally identical and used far fewer packages with better timing. No doubt all of that was the side effect of not understanding the original design. It all showed up big time with the EI! Also total sales for the first year of production were in excess of 250,000! Other than apple it was the most common machine out there and between the two they out numberd likely all other computers in existence to that date. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Mountain Computers AD/DA Card

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I've got one of these in my Apple ][. Anyone got any info??? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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HP Portable Plus

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> >OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball >power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that >fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I >don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus >care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? What is the Portable Plus? Is it related to the HP110 ? Hans

27 years, 11 months

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More stuff acquired

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >I paid $120 for this lot, which was more than I wanted to. I guess I >didn't do too bad considering I talked the guy down from $200. Well, come >to think of it, with the completeness of the Yamaha, plus the fact that >MSX computers are so rare in the states, and the cool factor and scarcity >of the Integral PC, $120 isn't bad, but its still more than I wanted to >pay :) > I've been haggling with a guy for an Integral PC for a while. He wants $50. Maybe I should give in.

27 years, 11 months

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Desie Hay <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> >I have one question , well I actually have two...... >though, what software came on cassetes? >and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >makes them die??? > >anyone?? > 1. I don't think any software would have come on cassette as it was meant to be used with the "Cassette Basic" in ROM. 2. I've noticed the little flat belt drives on the full height drives go slippery often and stops them working. Hans

27 years, 11 months

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HP Portable Plus

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, The FAQ are wrong! It's 8 VAC the same as the 9114. There's no polarity key since it's AC. Turn the PP on by pressing any key (except shift, control or extended char) for at least 1/4 second. Turn it off by pressing the F8 key when OFF is shown on the key labels for that key. If OFF isn't shown, try pressing the USER or MENU keys until OFF is shown. The half-moon looking key controls the screeen contrast. Joe At 01:57 AM 5/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball >power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that >fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I >don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus >care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Joe, > >Actually, I wasn't crying at all until I saw in "The Road Ahead" where the >marketing manager took complete credit for the entire concept and design. >Too bad the design was a prototype and not fully debugged. Guess he got >what he deserved. Besides we were only promised the first 2000 of production. > >Ray Holt Actually, remember that they DIDN'T MAKE $599 per unit, because the cost of production was probably at least $250-350. Then they didn't directly sell them to end users, but to resellers, for about a $100 max profit... it adds up. Unless you bought it directly from RS, where I guess you made their lying pockets bigger. Actually, if I were in your posistion, I'd be mad that I didn't put more bugs in!!! Just be glad that you eventually got some decent jobs, and credit for your work. I'm sure that bigger things have happened in world history, but I can't name any at the moment. Don't worry, I think that all of us give you credit for your work. (Mostly to Sam Ismail): Is there going to be a VCF Journal or something that we can buy? Unfortuanately, I'll be in Guyana in school at the time in question... kinda hard to go 4,000 away from class. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Ray will certainly have his day soon. Everyone has their 15 minutes of glory. His will be a lot longer than 15 minutes. >> (Mostly to Sam Ismail): Is there going to be a VCF Journal or something >> that we can buy? Unfortuanately, I'll be in Guyana in school at the time in >> question... kinda hard to go 4,000 away from class. > >Yes. I will definitely be producing a show album for VCF2, including the >talks on cassette. I'm still working on the VCF 1.0 "Lecture Series" >(should have had it done by now but work is sucking up all my time). Thanks. I'll have to see how that turns out. >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 11 months

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WANTED: TRS-80 Model 1 schematics

by dastar＠wco.com

Does anyone know where I can secure a copy of the schematics for the TRS-80 Model 1? PS. I have schematics for the TI-99/4a if anyone is interested. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

27 years, 11 months

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by stephen.j.gabaly＠lmco.com

I offer $100 for the IMSAI CPU card and IMSAI documentation. steve -----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime [SMTP:wirehead@retrocomputing.com] Sent: Sunday, May 10, 1998 6:49 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Over the next several weeks I will be liquidating my collection of antique computers. I won't go into the reasons why except to say that the reasons for doing so are not bad. In other words, I'm not being forced to do it by bad circumstances. I'll leave it at this: I need the space in my home to expand a business venture that has brought me a great deal of genuine happiness over the last few months. I will be liquidating the following: TRS-80 Model III with Software Northstar Horizon with spare CPU card and a spare grungy chassis 2 Commodore 128 computers and 1 1571 disk drive and some miscellaneous Commodore peripherals 2 Commodore 64 computers with no PSs in unknown condition Ohio Scientific Challenger in working condition with keyboard and monitor Computer Systems Associations Micro 68000 Development System TEI 22 slot S100 backplane 2 small boxes of S100 cards including an IMSAI cpu board, several static ram cards, a Disk Jockey II disk controller and several others An entire shelf of S100 and CPM documentation including manuals for the IMSAI (original) and the Altair (copies) Epson QX-10 working with all software including CP/M 2.2, no printer Xerox 820 system, with spare motherboards, 2 8" drives, monitors and spare keyboards PDP-11/34 with RK05f and RK05j and last but certainly NOT least 3 PDP-8i systems, one cpu only, one with a high speed paper tape reader punch and one with a DECtape drive, lots of spare parts, full documentation including schematic print sets, DEC OS/8 on paper tape and several boxes of home-grown software on paper tape...includes ASR-33 Teletype in good condition - all condition unknown, not recommended for the beginning retrocomputerist GNT Paper tape reader/punch that connects to RS-232 with manual and a roll of black paper tape Now for what I want out of this stuff... Of course, cash is acceptable. I'll also accept trades for pre-press equipment like Linotype-Hell imagesetting equipment, RIPs and/or media developers/processors, small sheet-fed presses, black and white flatbed scanners suitable for a Macintosh, Quark Xpress 3.x up for the Mac, binding equipment like sheet collators or edge staplers, CD-ROM drive (any speed) for Macintosh, Macintosh font collections, digital duplicators, photocopiers and/or laser printers etc. If you think it's useful for preparing or printing a newsletter/magazine, I may be interested in it. Bet you can't guess what kind of business I'm involved in... =-) In some cases, I'll donate the equipment to a good home if I think it's warranted. The only thing I can't donate is the PDP-8s as I have a significant investment in them and need to get $250-$300 each from them on average to recover my retrieval costs. Buyer/trader must either pay shipping costs from Des Moines, Iowa to your location or come to Des Moines to pick the items up. The PDPs will all have to be picked up as each is in a 6' tall rack about 24 inches wide and deep. All bids and trade offers should be made via private email as this is the only public posting I'll make. I'm not going to make up any complex rules about what bid I'll select or deadlines etc. But if I say you got it for a specific price/trade and a higher one comes in, well that's just too bad for me. So don't expect an IMMEDIATE answer on your bid. If you need more information/specifics on an item, send me private email and I'll give you all the info I can to help you make a decision. Let the frenzy begin!!! =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: I'll be discontinuing the website at www.retrocomputing.com in a month or so I can focus all my resources on the new venture.

27 years, 11 months

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More stuff acquired

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>(Why does everybody have an IPC but me? I want my IPC!) Not everyone... I'm still looking for mine. 8^( I swear, if Sam keeps posting all these neat finds, one of these days I'm gonna figure out where his garage is and pay him a visit (at about 3am)... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Tandy web page malarkey

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> writes: > Oh come on. The PET I can agree with, but the TRS-80 still required the > purchase of an external monitor, and one could just as easily (if not more Yes and no. You could buy a TRS-80 without the monitor, but Radio Shack advertisements featured it as a system including the monitor and cassette recorder, and the featured prices were for complete systems (not like the "monitor not included" you see in computer ads these days). And the pricing was set up so that if you bought the computer and the monitor you got the cassette recorder and manual "included free". Source: "Radio Shack TRS-80 Microcomputer System Products" catalog "New for 1978", and I'm thinkin' I got it in early 1978, certainly before I saw a Level II BASIC system -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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profile controller card needed.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

if you have one that works, i need it so i can actually use a profile i have. i can either trade pc or apple // cards including apple mouse cards or buy it outright. message me privately, please. david

27 years, 11 months

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More stuff acquired

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, I picked up some more goodies today. An HP Integral PC. I didn't much pay attention to the one Frank M. brought to VCF 1.0 so it was all new to me when I actually started messing with this one. I couldn't get it to do anything useful though. How do I drop out of PAM and into a shell? This one has a 1Meg RAM Carrier and a Serial Interface. An HP75D in a little docking station which has a built-in modem. The computer itself has a Text Formatter ROM module and an 8K RAM module (its neat, it tucks away inside the battery compartment). It also has a magnetic program strip reader. A Yamaha Music Computer. This is one of those MSX jobbies. I got a fairly complete system: computer, printer, 3.5" disk drive, music keyboard, some carthridges & tapes, manuals. It's pretty neat. Here's a hoot from the _MSX BASIC Reference Manual_: "MSX is an open ended system standardized throughout its full range of manufacturers and models--the final step towards the dream of perfect compatibility." I paid $120 for this lot, which was more than I wanted to. I guess I didn't do too bad considering I talked the guy down from $200. Well, come to think of it, with the completeness of the Yamaha, plus the fact that MSX computers are so rare in the states, and the cool factor and scarcity of the Integral PC, $120 isn't bad, but its still more than I wanted to pay :) Oh yeah, somehow my 220v computer came up and the seller ended up lending me a 110/220 step up/down transformer. The only problem with using this on the 220 computer I have is that it has those funky European two-prong outlets on it, and no exposed wiring. Now I'll have to go find some funky Euro two-prong plugs. I appreciate all the responses I received regarding my query. I just haven't had time to go through them yet. But I'm hoping I can leave the original power supply intact inside the computer and not have to do any modifications to it by using this transformer. My only reservation is the fact that it doesn't have a ground plug. I'm sure I can just pass the ground connection on from the computer to my wall outlet since the ground lead is attached directly to the computer case, no? BTW, the computer in question is the California Technology International 1032-A Z80 machine (crica 1979) that I mentioned was among the rarer in my collection. It has a 1-line by 16 character 16-segment LED display, a built-in stringy floppy drive, and 32K RAM. The keyboard is a flat membrane. A very odd beast. I got it shipped from a guy in Denmark, which explains the 220v power supply. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

27 years, 11 months

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Best way to read N* disks??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: What's the best way to read N* DSDD CPM disks on a PeeCee? I downloaded 22disk from Sydex, but the configuration file that lists the supported CPM types does not list Northstar. Maybe it's supported in the full version of 22disk. Anyone know? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 22 May 1998 08:46:50 -0700, Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> wrote At 11:20 5/22/98 -0400, Marty wrote: > What exactly is the distinction between the "Series 0" and "Series 1?" > To me a no floppy 5150 16KB-64KB would be missing a floppy controller > and floppy drives. >>I don't know and have never known. Unless I miss my guess, the tech ref >>was the same for all 16-64's, so there's probably no telling from docs >>unless someone has access to IBM internal memos. I thought that I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the ROM version. There were two versions, one in early August, 1981, and one in late-August (I have a FAQ on this somewhere, I just have to find it). The early-August machines are *very* rare from what I have read. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

27 years, 11 months

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Voltages on S/34 DC distribution panel

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Thanks, but I've decided to give the thing to William Donzelli if he has the time to pick it up. If not, it's one less System/34 in the world (the administration cares not for computer history). > >The plate at the very top of this assembly is +5V distribution. >The smaller plate just below and left of it is the O/C Sense Plate. > >Pins on middle DC panel: >+5 VDC Feature PS B >+12VDC Feature PS A >+12VDC Feature PS A (Or regulator) >ditto >-4VDC base >-4vdc base >+6vdc base >-5vdc base >ditto >ditto >+8.5 vdc base >ditto >+24VDC base >ditto >-24VDC base > >The bottom panel is the Feature Distribution Assembly >Pins: >+5VDC Feature PS C >ditto >+8.5VDC >+12VDC >-5VDC >-12VDC >+5VDC Feature PS D >ditto > >There! > >This came from the IBM System/34 5340 System Unit Maintenance Manual. >(SY31-0457-5) >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Best way to read N* disks??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What's the best way to read N* DSDD CPM disks on a PeeCee? I download <22disk from Sydex, but the configuration file that lists the supported CP <types does not list Northstar. Maybe it's supported in the full version o <22disk. Anyone know? It's not possible. The format is HARD SECTOR and none of the softsector controllers can read it. There is no way to fiddle a PC controller to read it either. This is typical of most hard sector formats. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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IBM System/3 disk packs...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I got a few disk packs (RL02-style thingies) from an IBM System/3 (What's that?) Any chance of reading these on my PDP-11? One has the label SYSGEN on it... Anyone else capable of reading these? -------

27 years, 11 months

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11/34a help #2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thank you Tony, for your response. I will continue this here on the list for the possible benefit of other collectors... but private e-mail is welcome as well. (I am not re-posting my previous msgs or replies.. ) So: given an 11/34 with the regular (?) 9-slot system unit, from the right going left I have: cpu,cpu, console card+boot/term, 128Kmem, 128Kmem, slu/ltc, blank, blank, bus term. I removed the existing grant continuity cards. I have the printsets on these cards, and a selection of manuals, but not enough info to figure out the details of hardware config. As currently (above) set up, the machine is autisitic and the console malfunctions (no display and all leds lit dim. What is the deal with the slots? With the red/white guides? I can't remember or find out exactly *which* slots each module ought to be placed in. I have figured out the switch settings for the 9301 from the schematics, but it's the 48 on the SLU I'm scared of... any pointers to where I might find them listed? (DL11W, M7856) Thanks again... it's exciting to drag this thing out of it's coma.. JOhn

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series, >> called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC is >> alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my >> intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not >> auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.) what were the differences between the two? I've got a 16KB model somewhere with cassette interface; it's got a floppy controller in it too, so I don't know whether that implies that the BIOS has been re-burnt at some point to handle this (it's funny joining this list - it's scary how much of this stuff I would have known at one point and have since forgotten!!). I seem to remember scrapping a good twelve or thirteen of these boxes a few years back working for a firm specialising in bringing old computer gear back to life (it was amazing how much strange stuff from the 70's and early 80's I saw pass through that place!). The local scrap dealer would only pay about 2 pounds for each system, so the whole lot just went in the skip out the back of the warehouse... it's funny how much perfectly good equipment I saw get slung out just because there wasn't space for it and we had several piles of spares, seems a shame considering that someone somewhere would have made use of it!! back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used if a cable was made up? cheers Jules >

27 years, 11 months

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Many interesting things learned today

by dastar＠wco.com

I met with my latest VCF2 speaker, Ray Holt, today, and boy does he have some stories to tell. The guy is amazing. His first commercial work was with AMI, which made microprocessors and custom logic back in the early 70's. Ray was responsible for the AMI 7200 and 7300 processors. AMI decided to drop their microprocessor line in the 1973 timeframe saying, according to Ray, that "there was no future in general purpose microprocessors, and everyone was moving towards custom controllers." :) Ray joined a consulting firm called Compata, Inc., and for a while he was working for Intel as a subcontractor with his soon-to-be business partner, Manuel Lemas, training engineers in different high-tech companies how to use the Intellec-4 (based on the Intel 4004). I only just learned that there was indeed an Intellec-4 from some material Ray gave me. Neat. He then went on to start his own company with Manny Lemas called Microcomputer Associates Inc. There he created the JOLT computer and later the Super JOLT. The JOLT was 6502 based and had a current loop and RS-232 interface. It also featured a ROM called the "DEMON" (DEbugger/MONitor). Tens of thousands were produced, and the JOLT is still in production today(!) used in embedded controller applications. Ray brought along the original JOLT prototype to show me. Two amazing things about this computer. It was made in the early-mid 1975 timeframe (very soon after the Altair hit the streets) and included a complete computer (CPU, RAM, ROM, current-loop/serial interface) on a PCB about 4"x8"! This is amazing for that timeframe. It could be expanded up to 64K with add-on RAM boards that piggy-backed to the main computer, and he also made Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA) cards for it, as well as a cassette controller card that could control up to three data recorders on one board! The system he showed me had the interface board and two extra 4K RAM boards stacked with the main computer board. He also had a good story to tell. One day some guy named Steve Wozniak came by and bought a JOLT from him. A few months later he heard about the Apple 1, and then the Apple ][. Interesting, no? Ray later designed a computer called the VIM-1 (Versatile Interface Module). The VIM-1 was Ray's answer to the Mostek KIM-1. His company was then acquired by Synertek, and the VIM-1 was changed to the SYM-1. Ray brought along the 25,000th SYM-1 which was given to him as a token of achievement by Synertek. All the traces were etched with gold. Ray said there were about 50,000 SYM-1's produced (there was also a SYM-2) before Synertek folded. The story behind that is Synertek was bought by Honeywell, and Honeywell, through poor management, ran the Synertek division into the ground. Ray said there is still a guy running a company in San Jose with a name that has "SYM" in it (SYMCOM?) who still produces or maintains SYM-1 boards for the many, many clients who still have them in use. 50,000 units is a huge number, and this just makes me laugh harder when I hear about "collectors" paying $405 for a SYM-1 on eBay. PS. I ended up with an original copy of the SYM-1 schematics. Ray then told me his remarkable version of the origins of the TRS-80 Model 1. Ray's company was approached by Radio Shack to build a computer for them that they wanted to market. Ray put together a working prototype in about a week from scratch that included Micro-Soft BASIC, 4K RAM, an integrated monitor, and an integrated keyboard. He and Manny then flew to Texas to demonstrate the unit. The RS folks were thrilled, and asked if they could hold onto the unit for a few days to look it over. Without signing anything, Ray and Manny agreed and went back home. A few days passed and they hadn't heard anything from RS, so they called them up but were told to chill. More time had passed with no response from RS and they started getting anxious. Finally, after a month of calling to find out when they would get their computer back, a box arrived one day in the mail. In it was the remains of their prototype, hacked to pieces. It was obvious that it had been reverse engineered. A short while later, Ray found out that the computer RS decided to release as their TRS-80 Model 1 was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't even have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack (they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit for the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to corporate as his own! Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Ray's had a very fruitful career, and is responsible for at least 3 of the true classics we collectors seek out. But of what I've told you here, it pales in comparison to the work Ray Holt did prior to his days at AMI. Of course this is a teaser. We're saving that for VCF2. So if you want to hear it first, make plans to come to VCF2. Otherwise, read about it in the papers. :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

27 years, 11 months

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11/34a help

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello list. Having three (3!!) *entire* days off, I have decided to try and make one nice PDP11 system out of the various Bits and Pieces strewn about the place. And I have naturally run into a brick wall that I have not the knowledge or experience to scale. So I turn to the Experts and Gurus for a 'boost over'. I have two complete PDP11/34a systems and an 11/04, configured similarly with RK05s, RX01s and RL02s. One of these systems was actually working, and it's RK05 (0) died. In the (loooong) process of trouble shooting, I found that the entire system's DCLO line was the culprit, but after fixing that, the system never would boot out of ODT again... all ok, I'll deal with it later. Now later has come. I wish to have one working 11/34 system, with two RL02s, an RK05, a Decwriter III for the console, a Kennedy 9trk tape, a punch/reader, and at least one of the big SMD drives I have (System Industries 470MB Fujis) I have all of the above hardware save the formatter/IO for the Kennedy. Right now, I have a minimum system in a BA11 with the programmer's console: M8265 M8266 M7859 M9312 M7891 BF M7891 BF M7856 M9302 Power supplies have been checked are in spec. Bus grant cards are in (and undisturbed from when the thing actually used to *run) The DL11 is hooked to a known good VT100. On power-up, the Console shows all 0000000 and the 'Run' led... data can be entered into the disply but apparently not deposited... There is no SLU response on power-up, and I have an RS232 sniffer in the line and it indicates the proper static levels, but no data. I know this might not be enough info... but its a start. begin(whine) It's no fun having tons of gear in your living room if it just sits there whirring loudly... end(whine) Thanks in Advance John PS: Im trying to 'thin' my collection a little to concentrate on the PDP11 series... anyone in the SoCal area who would like to trade 'experience' for equipment... Mostly Plessey-badge Clones and probably the 11/04, various drives and bits and parts... I have a truck and can deliver... thanks

27 years, 11 months

3
2
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785 cc microcars (OT)

by thorh＠ismennt.is

At 14:59 23.5.1998 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:02 AM 5/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 23:07 5/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Yeah, but you Brits have got _weird_ concepts in transportation. >>>The Morris Minor for instance never should have been licensed as >>>an automobile -- a four-wheeled powered bicycle on its best day. >> >>Eee, lad, y're not up on yer British automotive innovation. The >>four-wheeled powered bicycle was the Berkeley Frisky. My other fave was >>the Ginetta 1600 R, which is what you got when you crossed a Ford Cortina >>with a bespoke tapered London suit. Then there was always, gawdelpus, the >>three-wheel Morgan. >>__________________________________________ >>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org >> http://www.chac.org/index.html >>Computer History Association of California >> > How about the Austin Seven, in which, if I have been informed correctly, >the oil would migrate up the steering column and drip into one's lap. > > Cheers > Charlie Fox ('52 MG TD owner) > Hey, that subject line really hit me head on, so I hereby break the rule not to engage in an off-topic subject. You see, I subscribe to those two lists: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu and suzuki4x4(a)unix.off-road.com and filter my E-Mail by the headers...... and then suddenly...... the exact displacement of my car engine shows up on the classiccmp list!! The car in question is a 1981, 785cc, Suzuki LJ-80, it's a kind of a micro-jeep really and it has no electronics whatsoever. Sorry, clearly off-topic but I just could not resist. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

1
0
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EMMATRONIC disk copy?

by thorh＠ismennt.is

Does anyone know a computer called EMMATRONIC? It was used as a control computer for knitting machines some 15-20 years ago, the mechanics of the knitting machines are running fine, but now there is only one reliable system/program disk left. The maker of the knitting machines is out of business some time ago and so will the knitting machines soon be if I can not make the owner a backup copy of the disk! I have been told it's some sort of Apple II for the European market but then again I might be totally wrong. I need to copy a 5.25" disk for this system, the format is unknown and unfortunately the disk is known to be protected somehow (at least the EMMATRONIC refuses to copy it) and also I have no working Apples. Any ideas/suggestions? thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

1
0
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Marty <Marty(a)itgonline.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 21 May 1998 22:47 Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... > Are you refering to the original 16KB-64KB motherboard 5150 PC or do > you mean the 64KB-256KB motherboard 5150 PC? I have only seen two > original 16KB-64KB 5150 PC's. I'm certain there must be plenty of them > out there but I never see them. I see the 64KB-256KB motherboard > 5150's everywhere. > > Marty > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... >Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 5/21/98 5:45 AM > > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au > desieh(a)bigfoot.com > museum_curator(a)hotmail.com > Apple Lisa Web Page: > http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm > > > One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC....... > now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have one > in its original box will all manuals and > all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair > price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross > have been upgraded, > treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there are > no manuals in site.............. > but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a > fairer price........ > You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to > allow for some systems that have manuals, disks, > boxes etc............. > > systhems in these conditions are few and far between............ > > this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other peoples > comments.............. > > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998May21.054516.1767.42801; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:45:16 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id CAA21789; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:58 -0700 > Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id CAA29832 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 > 02:42:49 -0700 > Received: from hobart.southcom.com.au (root(a)hobart.southcom.com.au > [203.60.16.2]) > by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id CAA14995 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:47 > > -0700 > Received: from mr-ibm (pAc5.hbt.southcom.com.au [203.60.23.198]) > by hobart.southcom.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13271 > for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:42:44 +1000 (EST) > Message-Id: <000e01bd849b$e5dcebe0$0f01a8c0@mr-ibm> > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:36:13 +1000 > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "Desie Hay" <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............ I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and 16KB of RAM............ no floppy drives............. oh well

27 years, 11 months

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Converting 220 to 110

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok, I'm no electrical wiz. I have an old computer that wants 220. First of all, I got this computer without the 3-prong plug (it'd been cut off). Without paying attention to the "220" which was written on the transformer inside, I wired a plug onto the power cord and plugged it in. Needless to say the unit didn't come on, but I'm hoping that it didn't mess anything up. I wouldn't think it did. Anyway, what can I do to run this thing off of 110? The transformer has a solid black lead going to the black wire of the power cord (through the switch), a black lead with a white stripe looped back into the xformer via a white lead, and a blue lead with a white stripe connected to the red wire of the power cord (through the switch with an inline fuse...the fuse is fine). The side connected to the cpmputer board has a rainbow of seven colored wires in the order (from left to right): brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. 1547 is stamped on the transformer. ?. I'd like to make this run off 110 without having to modify the actual unit itself. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

27 years, 11 months

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Many interesting things learned today

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but <were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't eve <have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack <(they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned <that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit fo <the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to <corporate as his own! < <Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Close enough. The internal story was it was a design that was used on the deektop of an engineer whose last name began with an L. Somehow I didn't buy it. The TRS-80 design was not very imaginative and some of the holes showed. What was scary is if the guy that did the trs-80 design was good he could have reduced the logic some and also incresed the speed! Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I am looking for a free (gpl, etc) Z80 diassembler for unix (linux, if it >makes any difference). A quick web search has revealed nothing, but >before I write my own, I wonder if anyone else has come across anything. > Check out http://www.gr.osf.org/~emcmanus/programs/makedis.html -- Kirk

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

I wrote: > Except...on a peculiar ISA dual-port serial card that HP made > for the early HP Vectras. One D?-9S like a PC/AT serial > port, one DB-25S. To be fair, HP put a plastic tag out one side > of the slot to remind you that this was a serial port. Doggone it, I screwed up. The 9-pin connector is male, the 25-pin connector is female. So what you had sticking through the back plate was a 9-pin connector on top, a 25-pin connector on bottom, and a little plastic tag with orange print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a serial port. Thinking about it this morning I think I also remember an HP serial/parallel card with male 9-pin serial connector on top and 25-pin female connector on bottom...and a little plastic tag with black print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a parallel port. Good thing we didn't have many of those latter ones around in my shop, I was (still am, actually) in the habit of feeling out connectors with my fingertips to work out where the plug is supposed to go. How did things get this way? Well, HP was in the habit of putting female connectors on everything except cables and making their minis look sort of like modems. I once heard this referred to as "DTE in DCE drag" w/r/t the HP3000. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Nasty little Sanyo (was Re:Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers))

by scottk5＠ibm.net

-----Original Message----- From: Russ/Alice Blakeman [SMTP:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 9:06 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old ...... When I had this nasty little Sanyo MBC-55x machine....... Just saw one of these at a friend's place tonight and she was interested in getting rid of it. I think the model number was MBC-5510 (???). She said she also had a printer that came with it. What is it? What would be a reasonable price to offer for it? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

27 years, 11 months

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Questions, questions

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I was told that most of these were pitched when they were replaced due to security concerns. Any truth to this rumor? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Questions, questions Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/21/98 1:26 PM Marty wrote: > Speaking of Zenith 248 computers, does anybody have a guesstimate on > the amount of tempested Zenith 248's produced? They typically are > labelled Zenith Inteq. We had 25 of them in one course area on Chanute AFB prior to it's close and there were a lot of other secure areas that had requirements for them too. So just on one base you're probably looking at a few thousand. I don't even want to guess what the overall number was just for the USAF let alone the entire production cycle of the Inteq. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May21.132642.1767.42874; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:26:43 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA10134; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:22 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA83352 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:10 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id KAA23448 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:09 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand238.blue.net [206.65.221.238]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14120 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35646348.5AF29E7E(a)bbtel.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ/Alice Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Questions, questions References: <1998May21.083932.1767.105139(a)smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 11 months

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Vax 785 and microcode

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Here's a quote from a DEC manual I have: "The VAX 785 features fast RAM microcode..." Does that mean the 785 loads all it's microcode from the floppy? I've located the rest of a VAX 785 CPU, and I can have it, but the brakes in my car have failed (Rather spectacularly, I might add...) so they'll have to wait a day or two... Another thing: The emergency brakes in a Chevy Sprint will NOT stop the car in a hurry. They will, however, cause the car to SKID in a hurry... (No, I didn't hit anyone. But I did scare the bejesus out of myself.) -------

27 years, 11 months

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[Rare systems] & Garry Kildor

by bwit＠pobox.com

The following quote is from Forbes Magazine 80th anniversary issue: "On July 6, 1994 Kildall, 52, walked into a Monterey bar. He was wearing motorcycle leathers with Harley-Davidson patches-a would-be biker. There were some real bikers in the bar. Something was said. There was pushing and shoving, and Kildall died from injuries sustained to his head. An inquest called the death 'suspicious,' but no one was charged." Bob ---------- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III[SMTP:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 8:53 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor Desie Hay wrote: > >I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to > speak). > > > > > well yes I suppose........but didnt Garry get killed in a bar fight a few > years ago??? No, he died of a heart attack after a good number of years on the PBS "Computer Chronicles" show. > No old Billy Gates has brought some good into this world............ > but 99.9999% of what he has done is just to steal and steal.......... Bill Gates and I are a month apart in age. My zits cleared up, he became a billionaire. I guess we're even. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

There were several manufacturers who made drives for the Commodore line of computers. I have two or three examples around here someplace. Chinon is a name that comes to mind, but I know there were several more as well. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 2:34 AM Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... >Well, if you're alluding to the Disk ][, this was not an effort by Apple >to be "non-standard", but was basically due to the brilliant hacks of >Steve Wozniak in adding an inexpensive and simple disk controller to the >Apple ][. And as far as aftermarket goes, I can't think of even one drive >that was made to work on any Commodore that wasn't manufactured by >Commodore, but I myself have at least five examples of disk drives made >for the Apple by random no name manufacturers. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > >

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I whole-heartedly, unequivocally agree. But you're discounting Linux. <I'm surprised. Five years from now Windows' dominance will be a <non-issue. The world will have been made much more colorful and free by <Linux. I hope you believe me because I'd hate to prove you wrong in fiv <year's time (plus I need to get a win after being called on my "bzzt" fo <being wrong about the origins of Unix :) Linux is free and it may be better (it's abosolute hell to install) but Linux is not the default OS on every wintel box nor io it it shipped with more than a fraction of a percent of them. Also for those interested in running the small landslide of apps out there for DOS/WINDERS Linux is a non player. Why do I say that, I have linux, it doesn't run PADS, Gcadd, most of my cross assemblers and a few other apps I depend on. I've tried, even WP5/dos under linux is strange and tends to die. Setting up an IP network is pure hell compared to setting up DECNET. Like win95 and later it also requires more than the 8mb of ram I have or it runs poorly. It's windowing system is a hog (I'm used to running VMS/DECwindows and a half dozen engineers in 8mb on a VAX!). Linux(freeBSD, netBSD, Minix etal) is not the cure all, its a good competitor and offers things for some users that would otherwise have to run NT(even nastier) but, it's not engineerd for the common user. Then again, I've never installed a W95 system nor will I anytime soon. I do run W3.1 and compared to doing a dos6.22/w3.1 (or VMS) install linux is very painful and unpleasent. There is a lot to be fixed for the user that want's to run stuff rather than run make files. Like it or not a software investment determines the value of an OS in the long run. It's why I also run CP/M-80 still. This is computer history, it's also how we have the Y2k problem and some pretty dumb software as well. Allison

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Cassette formats (was: Prices to pay for old computers...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At one time or another, I was struck by the similarity of the CoCo's <cassette format and the now-ancient Kansas City Standard. Were they <actually identical? Did RS implement the KCS for the CoCo, or was it <just something kinda similar? And if TRS-80-->CoCo and CoCo-->KCS, <does that mean that maybe IBM just adopted KCS instead of making up <their own format? (A shocking idea, I admit...) Unless the character rate was 300baud it wasn't true KCS. The only one I know for sure that was 300baud was the trs-80 L1 basic as L2 was faster data rate. They could have copied the data format or even the encoding but I'm fairly sure most were faster tha 300 baud used far less hardware (usually a output bit or two and an input bit) plus code to make it fly. I used to use a non redundant version of KCS that I did in software for 8085 and the like at 1200 baud, retaining the self clocking FM that KCS is. At one point I'd tried pushing and 4800baud FM worked rather well on a really good mono tape recorder, 10 KC is a resonable upper limit for good tape and heads even though most go to 12-17khz. As I could count on at least one edge per bit and if an edge did not occur for 2 bit times it's was an error (drop out or noise). Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 23 May 1998 2:09 Subject: RE: Prices to pay for old computers... >At 16:31 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >>back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the >>original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way >>the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used >>if a cable was made up? > >There was a discussion on here a while back about whether IBM had ever made >cassette decks to attach to that port, and IIRC, the outcome was >inconclusive. If such a thing existed, certainly there were never many of >them. In general, the favorite commodity cassette recorder for the purpose >was one of the long Panasonics with the carrying handle. >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes a cable is needed on one end it has the plug for the IBM and on the other it has 2 connectors for the input and output on the cassette player....

27 years, 11 months

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1.2Mb Teac Floppy Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, the drive isn't a classic, but the computer it's going into definitly is. I finally got the CatWeasel Controller for the Amiga that I've been wanting. I'm putting it in a A2000 since that's the only thing I've got that can take a 5 1/4" floppy drive. I picked up a new Teac FD55BV-16-U floppy drive, and can't seem to get it to work with the controller. I think the problem is that I need to change the jumper settings. So I'm wondering if anyone has the jumper settings for one of these drives. As for the CatWeasel Controller, it's a controller that allows you to use normal PC floppy drives on an Amiga (they also make a PC version). It has the added benifit of being able to read numerous disk formats, which is why I got it. Once I get it figured out I'll write up a review for the list since I think it might be of serious intrest to every one here as a way to copy old floppies onto an archival CD-R or whatever media you want. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

27 years, 11 months

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Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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27 years, 11 months

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Voltages on S/34 DC distribution panel

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

The plate at the very top of this assembly is +5V distribution. The smaller plate just below and left of it is the O/C Sense Plate. Pins on middle DC panel: +5 VDC Feature PS B +12VDC Feature PS A +12VDC Feature PS A (Or regulator) ditto -4VDC base -4vdc base +6vdc base -5vdc base ditto ditto +8.5 vdc base ditto +24VDC base ditto -24VDC base The bottom panel is the Feature Distribution Assembly Pins: +5VDC Feature PS C ditto +8.5VDC +12VDC -5VDC -12VDC +5VDC Feature PS D ditto There! This came from the IBM System/34 5340 System Unit Maintenance Manual. (SY31-0457-5) -------

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I'll make this the last rant on list... However I invite off list discussion. It's a matter of keeping the on list comments "classic". I don't hate unix, it does dissappoint me that with all the hoopla installation is not better explained. IE: installation for non unix weenies. There is little attempt to communicate in such a way that doesn't assume unix socialized as the norm. I did pick up Linux for Dummies to get Redhat that comes with it and it was at least more direct. <Believe me when I tell you (and I can only back this up with gut <instincts) that it doesn't matter. The world is changing, and if nothin <than by sheer force of will, Linux will prevail, or in the very least <crush the MS monopoly. I think it is not far fetched in the least to <imagine in five years that manufactures like Dell and Compaq and Gateway <will start selling Linux boxes, as long as the DOJ is reasonably They already do but by MS license they can put linix in it and still pay MS. Till that stops they will be dos boxen. <Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong but I've run a Linux box on a <486/33 with 8MB and it screamed. As for the apps not being available, <either give it time or bite the bullet and write them yourself and <contribute them to the linux collective. That's what its all about! I'm not in business to write schematic capture or PCB routing software. If I did I'd do it on the VAX before I would for a PC. <You've got to check out Applixware! All I say to this is "...yet!" Thi <may not all be true yet, but its happening. Linux is becoming easier fo <even the common turd to use. Like I said, give this time. Five years. I just recently got REDhat version to try in place of the former slackeware and it's easier to install but known solid dos apps still die in the middle and the few windows apps are unusable. The install was easier and it supported fewer devices. The docs were nearly current and I'm still trying to understand configuring IP networking. It's potential is there, the implimentation is still "you gotta be a unix head". I still find the idea of device drivers as part of the kernel requiring a compile to install some new device odious. Loadable drivers are done in many OSs. This last item is wy PCs with their nearly the same with millions of subtle versions either run well or just sorta. I run a PC to do work, I really don't like the cpu or programming it. If I'm going to write code it's for embedded hardware or 8048, 8751, z280, z8000 maybe pdp-11 or VAX. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > It's simple: > > DB-25 male: serial port > > DB-25 female: parallel port Except...on a peculiar ISA dual-port serial card that HP made for the early HP Vectras. One D?-9S like a PC/AT serial port, one DB-25S. To be fair, HP put a plastic tag out one side of the slot to remind you that this was a serial port. -Frank McConnell

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Cassette formats (was: Prices to pay for old computers...)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Fri, 22 May 1998, Tony Duell wrote: ] According to the specs in the TechRef, any standard audio cassette ] recorder would work. There's even a link to set the PC's output voltage ] to suit either microphone or aux (line level) inputs. ] ] The pinout of the PC cassette connector is the same as that on a TRS-80, ] and the same cable works. My guess is this is not a coincidence - IBM ] probably intended PC owners to go to the local Tandy/Radio Shack and buy a ] cassette recorder and cable. When you say TRS-80, does that by any chance include TRS-80 Color Computers? Did they also adopt the tape format, in addition to the connector pinout? At one time or another, I was struck by the similarity of the CoCo's cassette format and the now-ancient Kansas City Standard. Were they actually identical? Did RS implement the KCS for the CoCo, or was it just something kinda similar? And if TRS-80-->CoCo and CoCo-->KCS, does that mean that maybe IBM just adopted KCS instead of making up their own format? (A shocking idea, I admit...) This is not entirely a moot point, because I have a CoCo handy, and an old KCS tape that I got almost by accident. I've been tempted to just slap it in and see if the CoCo can read it, but from previous discussions on the life cycle of mag tapes, I gather I might get only one chance to read the data. I don't want to waste that one chance until I am sure I have something that can actually read KCS. Eventually, I suppose I'll just write my own loader and be done with it. But it would be awfully nice if it was already done for me. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by KFergason＠aol.com

Chinon made (makes?) a mechanism, but I wasn't aware it made an actual Commodore drive. Blue Chip, MSD, CompuThink (Pet days), hmm Fsomething, the Accelerator? All those ad's coming back. CMD, obviously. Any more? Kelly In a message dated 5/23/98 3:46:24 PM Central Daylight Time, cgregory(a)lrbcg.com writes: > There were several manufacturers who made drives for the Commodore line of > computers. I have two or three examples around here someplace. Chinon is a > name that comes to mind, but I know there were several more as well. > <snip> > >Apple ][. And as far as aftermarket goes, I can't think of even one drive > >that was made to work on any Commodore that wasn't manufactured by > >Commodore, but I myself have at least five examples of disk drives made > >for the Apple by random no name manufacturers. > > >

27 years, 11 months

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Apple ][ stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 22, 22:50, Sam Ismail wrote: > Apple ][: Integer BASIC in ROM; normally had "manual start" ROMs > (required the user to boot the machine by punching in an > address and the GO command in the monitor) > Apple ][+: AppleSoft BASIC in ROM; autostart ROMs > Apple //e: Lowercase, 64K, 80 columns The ][+ also has different refresh circuitry for the DRAMs, and doesn't need the configuration blocks found in ]['s. The //e has a more comprehensive keyboard than the ][+ and can generate all the ASCII characters from the keyboard. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 22, 19:52, Russ/Alice Blakeman wrote: > My understanding of Commode-Ore is that there is a chip within the cassette > interface that allows the pooter to talk to the cassette drive. Not quite; the C2N decks have TTL-level in/out and a motor control line, all on a funny connector. The other three connections are +5V, ground, and "switch", which is a contact that senses when the PLAY key is pressed. They're controlled (at least in a PET) by part of a standard 6520 PIA (Commodore's copy of a 6820). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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Mac monitor--can it be used for other computers?

by transit＠primenet.com

I have one of the older Mac Monitors, the AppleColor High Resolution, model MO401. It came out around the time the Mac II did (ca. 1987?) and uses a monitor cable with a 15-pin plug. Can this monitor be adapted for use with a. Apple II b. IBM PC's or clones c. Amiga 1000 d. C-64? Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> writes: > The problem is you're comparing an OS that will forever remain trapped in > the academic realm to an operating system that is transitioning over into > the commercial market. You've got companies making commercial use of > Linux and selling it to mainstream customers. This trend will continue to > grow. *chuckle* Sam's been reading the propaganda again.... You've got companies making commercial use of FreeBSD and selling it to mainstream customers too. And you know what? They aren't bound by the GNU Public License to release (in some cases significantly modified) source to anyone under any conditions if they don't want to. Well, except for those parts of the typical stock FreeBSD system that are encumbered by the GPL. You might note that the FreeBSD folks have been careful to keep those separate in their source tree, and that it's possible to have a running OS without those parts: it's not much of a desktop user or development system but it'll get your packets where they need to go. Now that's something you can do with FreeBSD that you can't do with Linux -- derive your own work without having to make the source accessible outside your organization. Believe it or not, some commmercial concerns think that this will better protect their intellectual property, and in spite of what Stallman and some other folks might like you to believe that is sometimes the right way to go about it. ObClassic: this model's been around a while, it's how a significant portion of Wollongong's networking products worked. Though in those days you needed a Unix source license from Western Electric so you could get your hands on the BSD 4.[23] sources from which you could derive your own work, which in Wollongong's case was porting to other Unixes (and sometimes non-Unix OSs, like MPE). -Frank McConnell

27 years, 11 months

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Copies of Win286 and Win386

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have copies of Windows 286 and/or Windows 386 that I could get?? Just fleshing-out my MS operating systems collection. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

27 years, 11 months

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Converting 220 to 110

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<1547 is stamped on the transformer. ?. < <I'd like to make this run off 110 without having to modify the actual uni <itself. Assuming the power drain isn't in the kilowatt range JDR sells 110/220 transformers in the under $100 range. They sell them for to run 110 stuff on 220 but they can be sued the other way. Do use a plug on that 220 unit that is unique so it doesn't get plugged into something other than what you want. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by engine＠chac.org

At 16:31 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the >original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way >the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used >if a cable was made up? There was a discussion on here a while back about whether IBM had ever made cassette decks to attach to that port, and IIRC, the outcome was inconclusive. If such a thing existed, certainly there were never many of them. In general, the favorite commodity cassette recorder for the purpose was one of the long Panasonics with the carrying handle. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

27 years, 11 months

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Apple ][ stuff

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Alright!!!! Let's get this thing started!!!! Seriously, I've got a ][+, with 64K and a Mountain Computers DA/AD card. Anyone have info on this??? Also, I'm getting a cool card that takes a snapshot of RAM and records it on a floppy, as well as one that keeps the RAM on during a power outage. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ><< What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and > lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate > it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: >> > >great, lets get started. i first played with the apple //e in high skool and >subsequently failed computer science but its got me to where i am now. i have >every apple // model except for an original ][, //c+ and gs and i have plenty >of hardware and software to keep me using these computers for many many years. >at work i was playing around with MAME and some old computer emulators and >even found beyond castle wolfenstien which played JUST LIKE the apple version; >even the voices! i played plenty of that during classtime. i always wanted an >apple for myself when i was younger, and finally i can afford to get one; a >//e enhanced with duodisk drive and colour monitor; woo hoo! > >david

27 years, 11 months

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Apple ][ stuff

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I found the following Apple ][ bits today and being the Apple neophyte that I am, I could use some information on them. Orange Micro Grappler +. How is this better than the Orange Micro Printer Interface that I got with my ][plus? I assume the quad DIP switch at the back end is to set communications parameters. Looking at the traces I'm guessing it's a serial interface. Mega-Bit RAM card. Looks pretty boring actually, but I don't see any obvious way to cable it to the motherboard RAM in the standard fashion. 16 chips, labelled 'C1516', 'C1515', or 'C1517'. No other markings on the chips. I suppose it's just standard 16k RAMs? The most interesting: a "Mockingboard Sound/Speech 1'. Looks remarkably like a DAC/speech synth. I'm guessing even stereo? It's got two DACs and a pair of LM386 chips. It's got three potentiometers across the top and a 4 pin BERG header which I'm thinking is the output stage. I want to play with this. How? Last but not least is the Apple ][ motherboard. I'm wondering which ][ it came from. I compared it to my ][plus and it looks remarkably similar with the following differences: Mystery board: Has 'APPLE II MAIN LOGIC BD RFI' silkscreened underneath the copyright and part number (820-0044-D), one bank of 300 ns Apple branded 4116 RAMs, and Apple/Microsoft ROMs. At the back of the board by the mounting holes it is marked '606-X548'. Apple ][plus: Has nothing silkscreened beneath the copyright and part number (820-0044-01 or -0I), three banks of 200 ns Apple badged 416C RAMs, and fairly generic looking ROMs that have only Apple copyrights on them. What are the differences between the Apple ][, ][plus, and //e? What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: Thanks. ok r.

27 years, 11 months

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osborne?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i decided to make a thrift store run and found two things of interest; an apple hd20 external scsi drive unit with the top off. had a regular old seagate st225N in it which surprised me. also found an osborne, complete with keyboard and dual floppies. i have seen one osborne before, but this one was all grey and had the word OSBORNE molded into the case (or was it the keyboard?) it also had a plastic trap door for the power cable and had a cheap plastic feel to it, unlike the earlier one i saw last year. can anyone place the time period it was manufactured? it was $10, so i might go back and get it after the holiday. david

27 years, 11 months

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Mac POrtable system

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

About a year ago, I got a Mac Portable, which I really like. Back then, unfortunately, I had the tendency to upgrade everything to the most recent version, so I installed System 7.0.1 on it. Since then, I've wanted to play with an earlier OS to save RAM. I will eventually download OS 6.0.5, but for now, I just picked up WordPerfect 1.0.2, which has OS 4.2 on the disks. FInally, my question: when I try to boot off the disk, it freezes during the "Welcome to Macintosh" screen. It shows up fine when I boot of the hard drive, and Norton Disk Doctor doesn't show any problems. Ideas? In general, what is the earliest version the portable can run? By the way, it looks like I have all the needed files on the disk. PS, what should I pay for an ImageWriter II? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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Pericom MX7200... (again)

by afritz＠iname.com

[I asked about this before (a few months ago) but I got no response -- maybe one of the new people can tell me...] Can someone tell me what a Pericom MX7200 is? It was a freebie (a appearnlty rightly so). It's got a genuine MC68000P12 in it. When I plug the video in and turn it on, it just sits at a blank screen with a flashing cursor in the corner. Sometimes it will come on with some sort of debugging screen (as in something's broken), but it will quickly flash off before I can read it fully. I'm guessing it's a broken trace on the PCB, as it's quite old and brittle. I've gathered that it's somesort of graphics workstation but I know nothing more. I've heard you used them to do graphics visualizations on a graphics-less VAX -- any truth to this? Thanks, Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com afritz(a)delphid.ml.org http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ ----------

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:23 PM 5/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Sure the DOS license was a big initial push, but to say it was solely >responsible for the success of Microsoft is like saying the Model T is >responsible for Ford having the best selling vehicle in America today. True! You'd be leaving out the amazing stupidity of the american public. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Apple ][ stuff

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-22 23:07:27 EDT, you write: << What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: >> great, lets get started. i first played with the apple //e in high skool and subsequently failed computer science but its got me to where i am now. i have every apple // model except for an original ][, //c+ and gs and i have plenty of hardware and software to keep me using these computers for many many years. at work i was playing around with MAME and some old computer emulators and even found beyond castle wolfenstien which played JUST LIKE the apple version; even the voices! i played plenty of that during classtime. i always wanted an apple for myself when i was younger, and finally i can afford to get one; a //e enhanced with duodisk drive and colour monitor; woo hoo! david

27 years, 11 months

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Help aligning Kaypro disk drives?

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

A while ago I got a Kaypro 4'84 system for free and have been trying to bring it back to a state of stability and usefulness. The system as a whole was in good shape; my problems have been with the disk drives. I had hoped it was "only" old, worn-out disks that were causing the problem (and the disks are worn-out, as tests with 22DISK on a school PC show) but the drives themselves seem to be flaky. (Either that, or the new Verbatim disks I bought are substandard.) My worst fear is that the drives are corrupting the disks somehow. (Can this happen even when no writing is involved?) I have two spare drives; one is evidently SSDD and the other is DSDD -- I have not tested them. Only the DSDD drive is really suitable. These are, IIRC, 96-tpi MFM drives. They are made by TEC. (Not the same as TEAC, I suppose.) I would just put one in, except that I'm not sure if I need to do anything to align them. Even if I did need to, I undoubtedly don't have the equipment. Is alignment really important? What about on new drives? Could cleanliness be a problem? (I cleaned the heads with a head-cleaning kit a while ago; I put the dust cover on the computer for some time but stopped; however, the keyboard latches in front of the drives anyway. I keep the doors closed and the shipping inserts in the drives; I definitely have been careless about the order of inserting/removing the inserts and opening/closing the drives and turning on/off the computer.) It's very unsettling to think of my software eroding as I watch. I haven't found replacements for some of it. I've tried using 22DISK; there are two problems with this: 1) It doesn't like my formats very much, and 2) I've been using PC's in the computer lab and I don't trust those drives any more than mine! I may haul an ex-roommate's Korean '386 box out of the closet if I get desperate. The Apple ][ disk drives I've seen have had flawless performance; even PC 5.25" drives seem to do very well. I'm getting very tired of hearing my machine go "grkgrkgrkgrk ... grkgrkgrkgrk ... grkgrkgrkgrk ..." (It's one of those sounds that is instantly annoying and recognizable by pure instinct as a Very Bad Sound. I wonder what a list of those sounds would look like?) Thanks, -- Derek

27 years, 11 months

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[Rare systems] & Garry Kildor

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Greg Troutman <greg(a)husic.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 22 May 1998 4:19 Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor > >-----Original Message----- >From: Desie Hay <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 1:09 AM >Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor > > >>yes well, I can't spell, and I think that Garry Kildor could have been the >>bill gates of today if he had played his cards right > >I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to speak). > > well yes I suppose........but didnt Garry get killed in a bar fight a few years ago??? No old Billy Gates has brought some good into this world............ but 99.9999% of what he has done is just to steal and steal..........

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Sure the DOS license was a big initial push, but to say it was solely responsible for the success of Microsoft is like saying the Model T is responsible for Ford having the best selling vehicle in America today. Microsoft was a development products company, not an OS company. When I got here in 1988, I remember seeing a revenue pie chart at the company meeting. We were at around 60-70% revenue from development products like C++ & FORTRAN, with a big slice from apps like Word & Multiplan, and DOS revenue was a tiny slice. In a decade where everything had to be written directly to the hardware to get any speed out of the 8088, you can hardly say that the DOS license had much to do with the success of the dev products. Our first, all time most successful Windows app, Excel, that nuked the Lotus 1-2-3 monopoly through ease of use and customer demand alone, was _ported >from the Macintosh_. How exactly could we have leveraged our ownership of Windows to make Excel successful when it wasn't even written for Windows? If IBM endorsing & bundling an OS makes it a monopoly, why is OS/2 dead? etc. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 5:37 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ? On Thu, 21 May 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > We weren't, and aren't, Orwellian characters, > just folks trying to write software that people want to buy. Gee, I guess > it worked! So sue us! I think one reason Microsoft is being sued is that Microsoft software does not compete on the merits of the software alone. Windows 3.0 was the first almost barely usable/tolerable version of Windows. I'm not a Mac fan, but if you look at something like the Amiga and AmigaOS from 1985, it was such a clearly better operating system and windowing system PC environment compared to Microsoft's offering that if Microsoft had to compete on technical merit alone, they would have been out of business weeks after the Amiga's introduction. To suggest that Microsoft's success is due to writing software that people *want* to buy is disingenuous. Microsoft's success is due solely to the monopoly IBM gave them in 1982. To their credit, Microsoft is only about five years behind the curve. If IBM had kept the monopoly to themselves, we'd all be closer to ten years behind the curve. -- Doug

27 years, 11 months

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System/34 parts available

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

If only he had some 20-amp 220-v current stored in a superconductor... *sigh* can't always get what you want. > >Since there was talk here in the recent past of reviving one of these. I >found the following on comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc: > >> I have about 40 logic cards, all the power supplies and an 8 inch floppy >> drive from a >> System/34. All are for sale for best offer. Could supply list of numbers >> if interested. >> >> Norm Helmkay helmkay(a)ibm.net > >Don't reply to me, I'm just an innocent bystander. > >-- >David Wollmann >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:16 PM 5/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >article says the Apple got their idea from xerox in 1979, and MS >got their ideas from Apple, and now they have copied the Mac w/Win98 I quote from "The Mac Bathroom Reader" by Owen W. Linzmayer (a non-technical history of the Mac): "In return, Apple was allowed two afternoon visits to the PARC labs. When Jobs first visited with Atkinson in November 1979, he saw with his own eyes what all the fuss was about. He was so excited that he returned in December..." Actually, Jobs would have known all about it earlier if he had paid any attention to Jef Raskin, who had been trying to get him to visit PARC much sooner. >The article in the link argues that Win98 is much worse than the mac, >which I agree with. I am wondering about its statement that Apple >knew all about GUI before 1979 with their Lisa. AFAIK, the lisa >is ~1982... I dunno about Win98 vs. the Mac; I haven't seen either Win98 or MacOS 8, but yes, the way I see it, Apple stole from Xerox, Microsoft stole from Apple, Apple sued lots of people and won, Xerox Sued Apple and lost, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-22 11:32:19 EDT, you write: << back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used if a cable was made up? >> i asked an old ibmer at work, and he said there indeed was a fru number for the cassette cable AND a tape deck! i'll have to remind him to look and see what the numbers are. david

27 years, 11 months

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

The Ford analogy would be correct only if the purchase of the car allow you on certain key roads and forced you to use only one brad of gas with a funny nozzle. You could not buy the car without either. <Microsoft's API monopoly allowed them to make mistakes and inferior <products and not only survice, but flourish. This was an unprecedented <advantage over ever other competitor, and continues to be so to this day This was one of MS marketing ploys. The other was licensing. <If Microsoft had to compete on an even playing field, I think they would <have been a good match for Lotus, and they probably would have put Word <Perfect to bed as well. But Borland? Geoworks? Novel? Netscape? Sun <Next? Apple? Amiga? I think we would all have much better software and <operating environments today if Microsoft had to compete soley on <technical merit. Early on MS was recognized as a language house (MSbasic, Basic compiler, fortran, cobal...) They were good at that but applications was clearly the market though getting tools out there was the first step. <Too little, too late. IBM, famous for tying customers to proprietary <systems, gave away both the PC architecure and the O/S platform. Later on at first IBM PCs were seen as typical IBM and proprietary. This gave rise to dos on s100 and machines like the z100. <they own the browser market, they own the "API" (HTML, HTTP, etc.), and <eventually they'll own the internet. I, for one, don't like that idea. They also hold a peice of the internet backbone. <Of course, I put all of my disposable income into Microsoft stock, becaus <the strategy is *so* damn good. I love them as an investment, but I don' <like the way they grab power, and most of the time, I don't like what the <do with the power once they have it. Reminds me of the oil industry in the early 1900s. Allison

27 years, 11 months

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by Marty＠itgonline.com

What exactly is the distinction between the "Series 0" and "Series 1?" To me a no floppy 5150 16KB-64KB would be missing a floppy controller and floppy drives. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/22/98 11:10 AM At 17:22 5/22/98 +1000, Desie wrote: >yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............ >I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and >16KB of RAM............ >no floppy drives............. >oh well Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series, called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC is alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May22.111047.1767.43068; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:10:47 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA19723; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:08:27 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA60688 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:07:25 -0700 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id IAA29232 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:07:21 -0700 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA01218; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:06:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980522080349.00f4dc70(a)pop.batnet.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:03:49 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... In-Reply-To: <004501bd8552$61b05340$0f01a8c0@mr-ibm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac(a)pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

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