- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by franke＠sbs.de

>> But these are prety tough compared to traditional magnetig >> medias (and after All, a Zip is just a high class diskette). > >>> Air filters? Ha! They have nothing but a shutter on the cartridge and a door >>> flap on the drive. Absolute rubbish. It's miraculous that they work even for >>> a few weeks. >> Same has been said on 8" FD: These will be damaged within hours >> when the head engraves any particle ... But they worked well >> and all FD technologies thereafter. >> And on the other hand - in what way poor iomega could >> gain this amount of money, other than selling cheap >> tech at monopol prices. > I've had good results from Iomega hardware and media ever since the > days of the 10 Mb 8" drives that backed up the data on a Tandy 6000 > Xenix system. I remember these - nice piece of HW, I had two running without any problem on an IBM-XT. > The decision to go with the Zip over the Syquest > EZ135 wasn't much of a contest. [1] A lot of my customers at the > end of the Eighties had serious problems with their Syquest drives Never had these - since the 44MB drives for the Atari I've been using syquests all the time without any hassle or breakdown. I had almost any type they offered. > and [2] somebody wrote a device driver for the parallel Zip-100 for > Linux and I felt no need to add a SCSI interface to my notebooks. :) I use SCSI on all my computers (if possible) starting >from my Apple ][+ in 1984, so this is no issue at all. > I've even gotten a Zip drive to work with a Tandy 1000 by making an > adapter for the edge card printer connector on that machine. If I > was a _real programmer_ myself, I guess I'd have figured out how to > connect it to my Tandy Z-80 and 68000 equipment. Nice idea - Has anyone a (generic) ATA implementation for the Z80 and drivers for MS-DOS filesystem under CP/M ? This could be worth do develop. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

2
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Updates to Secret Weapons of Commodore

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981112/18aed4a8/at…

27 years, 7 months

1
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Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I believe Allison has a model 50Z (a 286 also) running Windows for her s < The PC/XT class may be junkers for them though. It does run win3.1 just fine and 3.11 as well but, Netscape is out of the question. The problem is with only 1mb of ram you swap like mad for some apps and others can't load enough of their resident portion to execute. My machine only has 1mb of ram. While 2mb would help it would still fall short in the ram derby as most apps want 4-8mb at least. I'd advise that anything 386/8mb and above would be the minima for being able to run most desireable packages. Even a lowly 386sx/16 would be faster than any 286 and adding memory is a lot easier. It has more to do with expandability and availability. Oh, I've seen a 386DX/33 with 64k cache, 16mb ram running W95 and it's slow but very useable. More ram is needed to avoid slow swapping. It sounds wacky but with 386s around here bing free or nearly so they are a resource that is underrated. FYI: a 386 runs linux very well but for educational use (computer science type stuff) MINIX is desireable as it's smaller and runs real well in 2-4mb on small (40mb) hard disks using any system from 8088 and up. It's loadable from a dozen floppies. Using even a lowly 386sx/16 it seems to fly. I have not had success using it on a 286(most any) but it's supposed to work so likely my lack of expertize with the OS is more the problem. It's really a compatability and availability thing. Most XT class machines are really most useful for control apps and simple programing. The ISA-8 bit bus and their low cost make them good for hacking. The 286 class machines are good for cusp apps where in the right use they may fit in a modern network. Generally both suffer from lack of speed, not enough ram (286s) and sometimes lack the ubiquious 3.5"/1.44 floppy. The very early 386s suffer from incompatability by using SIPPs for ram or other oddities and bizzare BIOSs. Still they may be usable. I've found that 386 machines that use SIMMs (most are 30 pin), 3.5" drives and IDE (or adaptable for same) with VGA or bettter to be generally useful where a PII or 486 would fit with allowance for speed. The latter is good as here I'm inclined to swap around IDE hard drives and if it boots/ runs on a 486 I've never had trouble with it booting/running on a 386 system. The latter being important in a classroom enviornment where you want every one to be able to do the same thing the same way(and get the results at the same time!). Allison

27 years, 7 months

3
2
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Clear calculators was Re: Deja Vu Again (was Re: Hayes S100 modem

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

If you're interested in that kind of thing, there were three clear TI calculators that just sold on E-OverPay. Joe At 02:20 PM 11/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Hans Franke wrote: > >> > 4) clear pilot >> >> Huh ? never heared of. > >Some Pilot aficionado recently told me that Palm also made a clear version >which I think they sold to developers at a developers conference. (There >are a lot of ex-Newton guys at Palm; maybe it was their idea :-) Anyway, >take a popular machine and make a "special issue", and you've got an >instant collecible. > >> (And add the REX) > >I only listed machines which I thought would become very collectible. The >REX will be collectible by niche collectors like me and you, but it >doesn't have enough popular mythology behind it to ever bring big bucks. >(Yes, I have one.) > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 7 months

1
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CompuCorp "Micro Computer"

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Thanks Alex. I have one of these calculators and have been looking for info on it. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: CompuCorp "Micro Computer" Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/12/98 4:54 PM Hey List, I just put a short article with some photographs of the guts of a couple of CompuCorp "Micro Computer" (at least that's what _they_ called them) calculators on my web site. They might weigh 3 1/2 pounds but some folks call them pocket calculators. There's a 4-chip processor boards inside, along with Intel 2102 RAM, and 24K bits of ROM. Late 1972-early 1973 vintage. The article is linked off of both my "desktop" and "pocket" calculator pages on my web site. Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov12.165451.1767.77342; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:54:52 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA21673; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:52:30 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA33488 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:52:10 -0800 Received: from camel8.mindspring.com (camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA26 484 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:52:09 -0800 Received: from nrtpq79.rtp.bnr.ca (user-38ldb79.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.172.233]) by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17110 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:52:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981112163603.00697a14(a)mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:36:03 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Alex Knight <aknight(a)mindspring.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: CompuCorp "Micro Computer" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: aknight(a)mindspring.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

1
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CompuCorp "Micro Computer"

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hey List, I just put a short article with some photographs of the guts of a couple of CompuCorp "Micro Computer" (at least that's what _they_ called them) calculators on my web site. They might weigh 3 1/2 pounds but some folks call them pocket calculators. There's a 4-chip processor boards inside, along with Intel 2102 RAM, and 24K bits of ROM. Late 1972-early 1973 vintage. The article is linked off of both my "desktop" and "pocket" calculator pages on my web site. Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 7 months

1
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Xerox 8010 Star Hard Drives

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Can anyone tell me if the 8010 Stars used Quantum 2080 8" hard drives. I have been sorting the whse and ran across 3 of these. My memory says they were removed from working 8010s but at my age I find my memory is faulty. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

2
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This is totally off topic

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: This is totally off topic Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/12/98 2:37 PM > On 9 Nov 98 at 22:09, Bob Wood wrote: > > > Only because of his post to this list and > > with only an email address to go on I was able to > > make contact with the owner of these macines. [...] > > To make a long story short, I was able to purchase > > seven of the thirteen machines at a fraction of their > > value. > >>Great ! I'm glad you're still here despite the puritanical critics. I > >>>consider you a resource like so many others on this remarkable > >>mail-list. If I ever get down to Fla. I'd love to see your > >>collection even if all your Altairs are sold. :^)) > I second Larry's opinion. Good for you Bob. You get a lead and follow > it up, do some leg work and get rewarded. That's how I've picked up > much of the equipment I have. >>Hear! Hear! Not only is this list good for information, but it can be >>exploited for profit too! I think your'e jealous of Bob. I am too. I wish I had found all those Altairs. Hey! A vintage arcade game would be nice also. >>I'm sure that Bob's revelation that he was able to use information from >>this list to find items "at a fraction of their value" couldn't >>possibly have a chilling effect on the free flow of information here. >>It's not like we assume that we're among like-minded collectors or >>anything. One man's trash is another's treasure. The seller got rid of 'junk' taking up space then got money, Bob got some great additions to his collection and makes a profit to boot. Sounds like a great ending to me. I see nothing wrong with making money while furthering your hobby. >>BTW, anybody know where there might be a dusty Picaso lying around >>someplace? Try the Louvre in Paris, I'm certain you'll find several works by Piccaso. Marty -- Doug ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov12.143712.1767.77301; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:37:16 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id LAA26157; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:35:07 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id LAA20574 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:34:59 -0800 Received: from behemoth.host4u.net (behemoth.host4u.net [209.150.128.29]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id LAA13 702 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:34:54 -0800 Received: from localhost (yowza@localhost) by behemoth.host4u.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10717 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:34:50 -0600 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.95.981112132256.5800B-100000(a)behemoth.host4u.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:34:47 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: This is totally off topic In-Reply-To: <1998Nov12.085653.1767.158865(a)smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Sender: yowza(a)behemoth.host4u.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

1
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Have cartridges, need drive...

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

I think my wife was planning on selling her 200mb drive, which is capable of reading 88 and 44mb carts as well. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][ > -----Original Message----- > From: mbg(a)world.std.com [SMTP:mbg@world.std.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 11:53 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Have cartridges, need drive... > > > I've found a cache of Syquest 88mb cartridges... rather than > throw them out, I'd like to try to use them. Anyone have an > 88mb drive they are otherwise discarding, or one they are > planning on selling? Please contact me... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 7 months

1
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This is totally off topic

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: This is totally off topic Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/12/98 5:10 AM On 9 Nov 98 at 22:09, Bob Wood wrote: > Yes it is totally off topic but I would be remiss > if I did not say THANK YOU to whoever it was who > posted. > > Three weeks ago a post came across this list which > which stated that someone was wanting to sell thirteen > old arcade machines. The poster further stated that > he was posting this message only because he thought > these might be computer games. > > Only because of his post to this list and > with only an email address to go on I was able to > make contact with the owner of these macines. > > I learned that these were all priceless turn of the > century era penny arcade machines that had been > used at Disneyland in Anaheim and later at Disney World > in Orlando. I further learned that > they were going to be sold in an obscure auction in > Florida (I am in Florida) three days later. > > To make a long story short, I was able to purchase > seven of the thirteen machines at a fraction of their > value. > > The surfacing of these thirteen pieces is one of > the most significant finds of this type item in the > last ten years. > I have been collecting coin operated antiques for > twenty five years. This is the first time in all > those years that I have ever had an opportunity > to buy even one example of this type item. Because > someone posted the message to this list I now > am proudly in possesson of seven of them. > > THANKYOU, whoever you were. > > Bob Wood > >>Great ! I'm glad you're still here despite the puritanical critics. I >>>consider you a resource like so many others on this remarkable >>mail-list. If I ever get down to Fla. I'd love to see your >>collection even if all your Altairs are sold. :^)) >>ciao larry >>lwalker(a)interlog.com I second Larry's opinion. Good for you Bob. You get a lead and follow it up, do some leg work and get rewarded. That's how I've picked up much of the equipment I have. Marty ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov12.051056.1767.77146; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:10:56 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id CAA20411; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:08:55 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id CAA38150 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:08:51 -0800 Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root(a)smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id CAA03 414 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:08:51 -0800 Received: from 209-20-0-127.dialin.interlog.com (209-20-0-127.dialin.interlog.com [209.20.0.127]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA27195; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:08:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811121008.FAA27195(a)smtp.interlog.com> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 06:03:18 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Lawrence Walker" <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: This is totally off topic In-Reply-To: <19981110060915.29070.qmail(a)hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: "Bob Wood" <altair8800(a)hotmail.com>, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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Collectibles for the future

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:30 PM 11/8/98 -0800, you wrote: > I couldn't get a Lisa for under $2000, but I could find a D-machine for > less than a tenth of that. If you hear of a d-machine for sale, *please* let me know. I, and several others around here, would definitely like to get ours up and running, and I need (at the least) a hard drive and cables. (But man, am I *stoked* about having it! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

6
11
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Have cartridges, need drive...

by mbg＠world.std.com

I've found a cache of Syquest 88mb cartridges... rather than throw them out, I'd like to try to use them. Anyone have an 88mb drive they are otherwise discarding, or one they are planning on selling? Please contact me... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 7 months

1
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modern removable media drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I've even gotten a Zip drive to work with a Tandy 1000 by making an < adapter for the edge card printer connector on that machine. If I < was a _real programmer_ myself, I guess I'd have figured out how to < connect it to my Tandy Z-80 and 68000 equipment. The Syquest I have is a parallel port version but the drive internal is IDE. I'd love to figure out how to do parallel port driver for CPM hardware (I'd create a Bidirectional port as it's simple). The laternat is a IDE interface as that's been done and is relatively easy other than writing the bios. Allison

27 years, 7 months

1
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8-bit FORTH

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Another project in the tapes is an 'OS' based on a Byte book called < 'Threaded Interpretive Languages' - just curious what opionions < are out there about FORTH as an 8-bit os. It seemed like just < the right balance of control - not as terse as assembly, and < not as handcuff'd as BASIC. Forth is a good language for 8bit cpus. It also suffers from a love/hate thing. People either love it or hate it. The Walnut Creek CDrom had several versions of Forth on it including FIG Forth. < APL? Is there a Tiny-C available somewhere? I have Tiny-c Interpreter manual and listings for both PDP-11 and 8080. You would ahve to resolve copyright issues as it's not public domain. It was inexpensive and sources provided but otherwise standard copyright. FYI: it was supplied in many formats Another language was BASEX and that was also a Paperbytes book. It was a cross between asm and basic. It's features were compiled, fast, compact and sources provided. The version I have ran under NS*dos. Allison

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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Mini Moog OT

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Here's a stretch. Is there anyone on the list that has a Mini Moog or other vintage analogue synthesizer they would like to trade or sell? If so or if you just want to rant at me for this OT post, please email me privately. Thanks, Marty email marty(a)itgonline.com

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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Old, but not "Classic"

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:31 AM 11/11/98 -0800, you wrote: >I frequently get given 286 and 386 computers as well as hearing about people [...] >A couple of places I have found: people who need word processing, but can't >afford a computer; elementary school classrooms where the district either >won't or can't buy computers for them; some "rescue mission" type places The problem with these solutions is either that you need to take the time to set them up and test them and do some training, or the organization does. If they have such system in place, then great. If they have a techie that volunteers, wonderful, but to just dump a bunch of '286's on a school or shelter will only serve to eat up needed storage space. I work with my girlfriend's school to keep a bunch of older macs running and usable. Every summer, I lug them home so they don't get stolen, and every fall I lug them back, test them, and get them set up. If you have an older Mac (or even a newer mac!) that you want to get rid of, by all means, let me know. But we're not set up to handle PC's at the moment -- I don't have the time to set them up/test them/train the teachers, we don't have software for them, and there's no one else at the school who could do anything with them. So, while I'm all in favor of the concept, I have to say that in practice, it doesn't always work out as it should. You may find yourself doing a lot of work that you don't have time for, or the organization may thank you profusely as they shove them out the back door into the dumpster. Old tech is very useful, if you know what to do with it. The mainstream computer industry (ChumpUSA, TV Shows, AOL, etc.) does not provide that support. Without it, old tech is worthless. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

5
4
0 0

8-bit FORTH

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Ok, the customized 4K Altair BASIC lives as a 3 minute track on an audio CD (still trying to make a backup of the original cassette format to go with the short boot loader - that's trickier), and working on getting an 8K Altair BASIC on fresh media (need that to run a REAL Startrek). Another project in the tapes is an 'OS' based on a Byte book called 'Threaded Interpretive Languages' - just curious what opionions are out there about FORTH as an 8-bit os. It seemed like just the right balance of control - not as terse as assembly, and not as handcuff'd as BASIC. What other 8-bit languages/os's were there? What ever happened to APL? Is there a Tiny-C available somewhere? Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 7 months

2
1
0 0

Old, but not

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:36 PM 11/11/98 PST, you wrote: >Word processing is best. I really don't recommend giving computers to >schools because the teachers are often incompetent, and the computers >will often sit doing nothing. A better solution is to give them to Not incompetent. Untrained. You try getting 30 kids to sit quietly, let alone teach them to read, and see how well you do. Try managing a class so that the kids don't go wild when one of the kids pukes or wets his pants, and so that a kid with a speech impediment or burn scars isn't made fun of. Try teaching kids that violence is not a solution and selling drugs is not a viable career path, when they routinely see people killed and their whole family lives in a one room apartment. I've tried it, I've seen it done, and believe you me, anything you can do with a computer is a *piece of cake* compared to teaching. Teachers are not incompetent. They may be untrained in the use of older computers, but they are not incompetent. Why not take some time and teach them how to use them? Dig up some software that will run on them that they can use in the classroom. Volunteer to help set up their classrooms or type up lesson plans, so they have the *time* to learn how to work an antiquated computer. Show up at 7am and leave at 6pm like they do and see how much energy you have for playing with computers. For the last 8 or 9 years, I have been dating a woman who is probably the best educator in the bay area, if not the state. I have seen the hoops teachers have to go through, the work they do, and the abuse they take so that they can help the kids that are entrusted to them. I have seen parents who beat their kids, who write, in big red letters on the kid's homework, that they are not the kid's teacher and that the work is too hard for their kid, who don't bother showing up to care for their kids, let alone get them to school. Teachers are not incompetent. They may be overworked, underpaid, looked down upon, subject to ridiculous expectations, forced to conform to a rigid system when dealing with individual children with separate and distinct needs, but they are not incompetent. Max, I hate to put it this way, but you're a kid. You don't know what you're talking about. Generally, it's not a problem, but in this case, you've said something that is not only blatently untrue, but very hurtful as well. Perhaps you have had problems with your teachers -- How much of that was your fault? Perhaps the teachers haven't been able to focus solely on what you want to learn -- you're not the only kid in the class, and the other kids have just as much right to be there as you do. Perhaps you think the teachers haven't done enough for you -- but have you stopped to see how much they really do? (Including the hours they put in at school and elsewhere, and how much of their personal money they spend on you?) Sorry for the EduRant, but too often, teachers are blamed for the problems we as a society create, and it pisses me off. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

4
3
0 0

8-bit FORTH

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:42 AM 11/12/98 -0500, cswiger wrote: > >Another project in the tapes is an 'OS' based on a Byte book called >'Threaded Interpretive Languages' - just curious what opionions >are out there about FORTH as an 8-bit os. It seemed like just >the right balance of control - not as terse as assembly, and >not as handcuff'd as BASIC. I've got that book, and once used it to write a TIL for the C-64. - John

27 years, 7 months

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IBM Mag Card Typewriter

by museum＠techniche.com

Phil, Where are you located? How much did they want for it? Thanks, Jon ------------------------------------------------ >Saw the most bazare IBM Electronic Wordprocessor/Typewriter at a local Thrift >today. >A Big Electronic IBM Typewriter (Ball Type), attached to a Hugh Mag Card >reader, its >a floor unit that must weigh 100lbs.. Apparently stores letters in its memory >and then can store >it contents on on some sort of magnetic striped card.. This thing is large >enough to house a >minicomputer in it, but is nothing but is nothing more than a memory storage >device.. >The cable that attaches the two units (Typewriter & Floor unit) must be 1 inch >thick and >about 10 foot long... Must be one of the first electronic typewriters IBM >produced with >actual storage.. Anyone want it ? A real collectors item... > > > >

27 years, 7 months

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Daybreak hard drives (was Re: Collectibles for the futu

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The basic concept would be to simply sample the MFM (or RLL) channel >> code at somewhere around 50 MHz as it is being written, and store the >> data on the ATA drive. The interface would keep one track buffered in >> RAM. Whenever the host requests a head change or seek, the buffer would >> be written to the ATA drive (if it is dirty), and reloaded with the data >> for the new track. >> This would require a much larger ATA drive than the original drive it is >> emulating, 102K bytes per track. To emulate a Maxtor 2190, this requires a 2G >> ATA drive. You could even emulate drives larger than that by emulating more >> cylinders. > This is an intriguing concept. But would it be any more difficult to > decode the data being written by the MFM controller and written digitally > on the IDE drive to improve efficiency? Would this make reading the data > back difficult? No, anything you need is just imense CPU power. Recalculate the bytes from the MFM stream and store it on a different drive (that must be local, not visible to the Host). And backwards generate the MFM data from the ATA data. Timing bit arsh if you want to do it in real time, but since a local CPU is already usefull for disk (ATA) controll and conferting (can also be done by hardware) there could also be some 256 Meg of mem for building/editing the MFM stream and transmit it later (when ready). And since w hafe the room of a full or half height drive available, it could be put in replacement for the original drive. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Another resource for older systems

by franke＠sbs.de

>> I stumbled on this site a while back and a few on the list may be >> interested. Postings of want to buy and sell of "classic" type systems. >> I have not had any response from the post I put there several months back - >> Looking for DEC equipment but others may have better luck. >> http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/guest.htm > Were you aware of the fact that the listed site is in the Netherlands? Just > curious as unless you specify US shipping only you may be greeted by replies > from former Soviet block countries as I have on other Euro sales sites. Same on eBay or anywhere else - the net doesn't end at the borders of states (maybe but China and North Korea). If you insit on special rules, like only cash, no sale to white men, or only within a special county, you have to post it. > Seems Czechs, Romanians, East Germans East Germans ? Geee - did you miss some years ? They have nowadays the newer PCs :) > and all the like are just anxious as can be to > get US technology, old or new and in many cases without regard for shipping > costs. This time is gone since years - when it comes to PC tech, Taiwan ships as fast as they get payed - no matter who is ordering. > I'm not sure enough myself of customs laws of present day to go through > all of that but I know at one time there were heavy restrictions on exports of > hardware and software. There are sill a lot of US enforced restrictions about computer parts (And the US government still tryes to pressure other countries to maintain similar rules), but in fact they never have been a hurdle at all. They just liftet the price (like any other law that tries to forbid people to get what they want). As a matter of fact, all this regulations just hit the US economy more than any other. As long as it is about the EU, there are no more import taxes or special rules regarding computer parts. They droped all EU taxes and most of the regional import taxes on computers - So if something contains electronic parts - just try to find some way to declare it as computer parts. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Unknown Apple // card images ref

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)neosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 12 November 1998 16:36 Subject: Re: Unknown Apple // card images ref Haven't tried that. I don't expect it to do much of anything but I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens. I still think it is a modem but I can't imagine why it would have so many components. Is there an AM7910 or 7911 chip on there? That would peg it as a 300/1200-75 modem. (V21/V23) That was one of the common chips used. Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 7 months

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Collectable PCs

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Earlier there was a discussion of what PC stuff might be collectable and valuable. The other day I ran across an original Columbia PC. This one is a good collectable. It was as it came from the factory with the original Floppy and Hard drive. It also had the original keyboard with it. It was very clean and had not been abused. It worked. In my 1983 Bytes they were asking $5000 for it. I paid $6 at goodwill with the intention of putting it on ebay just to see what it will bring. I am retireing from collecting but if I were going top sit on a piece of equipment this would be a good example. My reasons in order of priority: 1) first popular clone, 2) all the original -parts (including screws), 3) Clean with no scratches, the type on the keyboard showed no wear, 4) Works (not essential - i bought it without testing it - $6 is not a great gamble), 5) Rareity - Most of these go directly to scrap and have for years. However it will be many more years before it is truly valuable, but I bet it will be! Paxton

27 years, 7 months

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AcerStation

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I ran into a computer at a thrift store today called an AcerStation. It was a thin machine, clearly designed to be a network client. I think it's AT-class. The interesting thing is that when I booted it, the empty floppy drive whirred as usual, then it said something along the lines of its not being connected to a network and press any key to reboot. Is this thing network bootable? I've never heard of a PC that could do this. Also: Could someone tell me the model number of the original NEC Multisync? NEC's site has nothing about it, and I want to know if that's it at the thrift store. Could someone also confirm that it can do VGA modes? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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This is totally off topic

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

Yes it is totally off topic but I would be remiss if I did not say THANK YOU to whoever it was who posted. Three weeks ago a post came across this list which which stated that someone was wanting to sell thirteen old arcade machines. The poster further stated that he was posting this message only because he thought these might be computer games. Only because of his post to this list and with only an email address to go on I was able to make contact with the owner of these macines. I learned that these were all priceless turn of the century era penny arcade machines that had been used at Disneyland in Anaheim and later at Disney World in Orlando. I further learned that they were going to be sold in an obscure auction in Florida (I am in Florida) three days later. To make a long story short, I was able to purchase seven of the thirteen machines at a fraction of their value. The surfacing of these thirteen pieces is one of the most significant finds of this type item in the last ten years. I have been collecting coin operated antiques for twenty five years. This is the first time in all those years that I have ever had an opportunity to buy even one example of this type item. Because someone posted the message to this list I now am proudly in possesson of seven of them. THANKYOU, whoever you were. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Vintage Apple Computer

by starider＠mindspring.com

Hello To whom this may concern, I was referred to your e-mail. The reason I'm writing is because over the last year when different people have found out that I had an old "Apple II C" computer that had all original components such as, keyboard(model# A254101), Unidisk 3.5 drive(model# A2M2053) , monitor(model# G-090S) and even has an old Image Writer II printer and all the components of the system were clean and in excellent working order. They asked excitedly if I was interested in selling it and even made unsolicited offers (some a helluva lot higher than others). Offers that caused me enough surprise to exclaim " You gotta be joking !". I'm curious about the true value of this Apple II system now because I have a new system . I would truly appreciate any and all information that you could provide. Thank you for your time and consideration and I'll be looking forward to your response. With Best Regards Christopher J. Perron

27 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync (was Re: AcerStation)

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> Also: Could someone tell me the model number of the original NEC >> Multisync? NEC's site has nothing about it, and I want to know if that's >> it at the thrift store. Could someone also confirm that it can do VGA >> modes? > >Depends on what you mean by NEC Multisync. A number of models have been >mentioned in response to your original request. I believe Dan Burrow's >summary corresponds to the NEC Multisync II. Not the 2A or other members >of the "2" series or 3's or higher. Note the Roman numeral. Says >"Multisync II" right on the front. I was quoting from the manual for the JC1401P3A for what it is worth. It also has all the pin outs for both analog and digital along with other related stuff. My scanner is down right now but I could FAX it if someone wants. Dan >This is the one with the 9-pin D-sub and is the only one I am aware of >that will sync 15.5KHz analog which is sub VGA video for Atari ST, Amiga >and Apple IIgs. > >The model number is JC 1402 HMA. It will do 640x480 VGA interlaced or >non-interlaced. It can step to 800x600 but someone mentioned it was >pretty poor and I believe part of the reason is it is interlace only. > >It also, as Dan points out, has TTL capabilities. I haven't made use of >that aspect. I have used it on built-in Macintosh video and some Nubus >cards that are theoretically VGA friendly but produce sync on green >(green screen?) and just otherwise don't work with normal VGA. If it is >indeed a "II" model, I'd say jump at the opportunity. The dot pitch isn't >great at .31 but it is sharp enough. The key though is the fact that it >is the Rosetta stone of monitors and it is worth having in your toolbox. > >For monitor reference you might try the following: > >http://www.telalink.net/~griffin/mondata.html > >which is a straight 120K or so listing of every model. > >Or use: > >http://www.telalink.net/~griffin/monitor.html > >for a search engine. > >I believe the above addresses are currently correct. I think any >reference to nashville.net is an older location. At the current moment, I >believe nashville will correctly alias to telalink. > >The information is sparse. Changes are made from time to time, so I guess >they are trying to maintain it with limited staff time. The database is >always worth a look when dealing with an unknown monitor, but no promises. > > > > -- Stephen Dauphin >

27 years, 7 months

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Daybreak hard drives (was Re: Collectibles for the future)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I've been thinking about designing an interface card to replace ST-506 >interface drives with ATA (IDE) drives. It's getting hard to find >Maxtor 2190s at a decent price, and I'm not sure how many more years it >will be possible to keep them running at all. > >The basic concept would be to simply sample the MFM (or RLL) channel >code at somewhere around 50 MHz as it is being written, and store the >data on the ATA drive. The interface would keep one track buffered in >RAM. Whenever the host requests a head change or seek, the buffer would >be written to the ATA drive (if it is dirty), and reloaded with the data >for the new track. > >This would require a much larger ATA drive than the original drive it is >emulating, 102K bytes per track. To emulate a Maxtor 2190, this requires a 2G >ATA drive. You could even emulate drives larger than that by emulating more >cylinders. > >The tricky part is that it might be necessary for the simulated drive >to mimic the effect that write precompensation in the host's controller >is intended to circumvent. > > > Such a card already exists- I saw someone selling one on the Obsolete Computer Helpline. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I could've sworn you spoke rather higher of it about a year < ago...anyway, I guess I can now understand why it is chosen as the best < example of Bill Gates' work :) but why is it always discussed (on Trimph < of the Nerds, for example) in terms of early personal software? Is it < that this was the best program for the Altair? The later versions were fairly stable and useful. Keep in mind at that time software was scarce (prior to 1977) so I tended to live with some things. It was landmark code in and one of its founders is a billionair now so it's remarkable. Keep inmind Triumph of the nerds was retrorevisonist history. Looking back is not the same as remembering the frustration of having actually used it. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Wanted -- Apple IIGS keys

by manney＠lrbcg.com

Anyone have a junk Apple II GS keyboard? I need one of the arrow keys. Thanks, P Manney

27 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by hhacker＠gte.net

For me, a personal computer is defined as any computer that I own and operate. If I could find a SYS/360 or SYS370, or Sigma/7 or Sigma/9 or a CDC 7600/6600/etc or a DPS/9, or ... ( well, you get the idea), I would consider such a computer a personal computer. Any body know where I can get one of these behemoths? William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 11:31 AM Subject: Re: PDP-11/44 boot prompt >>Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >>development systems don't count. Satisfied? > >Ah, but on this list, and most definitly in my home, PDP's, IMSAI's, etc. >are home personal computers :^) > >Besides Allison mentioned the IBM PC with ROM BASIC, and I've used a Zenith >Z248 (a 286) with a ROM Monitor that you can drop into, both of these are >definitly not developement machines. My NeXT slab had a ROM based monitor, >and the PowerMac I'm typing this on can be dropped into the debugger at any >time by hitting the proper key sequence. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 7 months

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Docs posted tonight

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what was posted tonight (there's not much more that I have scanned, so tomorrow should be it :-)) - R650x Family Datasheet/Rockwell - 6581 SID datasheet - 6567 VIC-II - 6522 VIA Enjoy. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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Unknown Apple // card images ref

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

interesting card! certainly has a lot of components on it. have you a chance to test it yet. you could try to put it in slot 5 for instance and then do a PR#5 or IN#5 to see if anything happens. david In a message dated 11/10/98 5:56:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time, dlw(a)trailingedge.com writes: > Ok, here are the images of that unknown Apple // card which I > believe to be a modem. If someone knows for sure and can tell me > how to hook up the phone line as well as doc/software, please drop > me a line. > > Images can be found at: > > http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/a2card1.jpg > http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/a2card2.jpg > > Thanks for any help.

27 years, 7 months

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OT: General power supply question

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Sam Ismail wrote: >> >> On Tue, 10 Nov 1998 Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote: >> >> > Person who said check continuity between centre pin of socket and ground on >> > the machine. That tells you if it _is_ connected to the ground plane. Sam >> > wanted to know if it _should be_ connected - i.e. he seems to be adapting a >> > machine for which he has no PSU to work with a PSU he has. >> >> Exactly. >> > > I'm sorry guys that my answer wasn't good enough. I thought I answered > the question. I will take more time to read messages in the future to be > sure I understand what a person is asking for. Unfortunately > communication is one sided and there is no immediate feedback to clarify > things. If I could see the circuit in question I would have given a more > intelligent answer. Also it would be nice for you to quote what I > actually said and not what someone said I said. :( Oh dear, Alan. I assure you there was no intention of causing offence. I took Sam's "Exactly" as referring to the last sentence of my paragraph. My description was "exactly" what he was doing. I had envisaged Sam as having a power supply with a plug on the end, and wanting to know how to wire up a socket in the machine. Later posts suggest that your test would have told Sam what he needed to know, so if it makes any difference, I apologise for my hasty criticism of your suggestion. But please bear in mind (you're new to the list aren't you?) that on Classiccmp, we all treat the other subscribers as old friends, and seldom stand on ceremony. Remarks like those above are not intended personally. Philip.

27 years, 7 months

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Posted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what was posted to my ClassicCmp site: - Altair 8800 Operations Manual: parts 1-4 [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:59 AM 11/11/98 PST, you wrote: >the iMac looks cute, but it is no friendlier than any other mac. It has [...] >I have no idea why the iMac is more likely to bring in a new layer of users [...] >the iMac offers a blue box in a black and beige world That's exactly why. The iMac tries to say "Computers are no longer strange boxes with blinkenlights that are scary and ugly. They are friendly, cute, pyrex-and-kenmore appliances for the average home. They look good, and don't have to be hidden under the desk with lots of wires running everywhere." All it needs is a bud vase and you've got the computer version of the new beetle. A kinder, gentler computer. Sony tried to do it with their name -- people are quite happy with a Sony stereo, so why not a Sony computer? But Stereos are still to complicated for many people; they just don't think that way. Going back a little further, someone pointed out that the Lisa was very similar to -- if not modelled after -- the old IBM tubes, keeping that geek-ish-ness going, despite the GUI. The iMac "offers a blue box in a black and beige world." --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>There is a point at which a lower price has a negative >effect on sales. People don't take it seriously. As Allison >pointed out, there were cheaper BASICs available. Why did >anyone want Microsoft's? Using a slightly different - and, indeed, almost invisible - marketing strategy, millions of copies of Microsoft BASIC were sold - one inside each and every Apple ][+, ][e, and //c, for example. >I'm sure Bill was smart enough to realize that gaining >1,000 customers at $50 leads to quite different administrative >and tech support requirements than 100 customers at $500 each. >And who knows how many copies were sold? MBASIC was also commonly bundled with many of the popular CP/M boxes of the late 70's/early 80's. This is probably a couple million more copies. Tim.

27 years, 7 months

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Fwd: NEC Starlet Computer Questions

by Roger＠Sinasohn.com

Anyone have any more info for this guy? >From: Rick Holbrook <110003.627(a)compuserve.com> >Subject: NEC Starlet Computer > >I am a portable computer buff myself, and have a number of old ones. One I >am particularly interested in is the NEC Starlet. I have the documentation >for the built-in Wordstar and Calcstar, but lack the documentation for the >communications and database software. I am also interested in obtaining >more hardware such as an external disk drive, and a plug in monitor >interface. If you can help me out with any of these in particular the >documentation, please advise. > >Thanks, > >Rick Holbrook >8904 E. Blake >Wichita KS 67207 >(316) 684-1403 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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[OT] Alphaserver Oops!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I find power interlocks a pain, particularly on covers held down by scre < (AFAIK many safety rules don't apply if you need a tool to gain access). Most are their for two reasons on DEC hardware. One, so you don't pull a card with power applied, instant fried system. The other is many of the systems are air cooled and the cooling is not effective if the door is open, running for extended period at elevated temperatures is a path to lower reliability or worse. In the alpha server that chip pumps out a lot of BTUs and cooling is good karma. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Thrift store finds - MAC SE

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- Phil Clayton wrote: Can anyone tell me how to make a boot disk for the MAC SE.. There are two hard drives on my MAC SE, lots of stuff there, but I don't know how or what to look for to make a boot or operating disk.. Is there a directory like DOS or somthing on the hard drive..? Can someone help...? Phil.... --- end of quote --- If there's no directory (folder) on either hard drive called "System Folder," then they won't boot. If there IS such a folder and they still don't boot, then system files may be missing or damaged. At the bare minimum, a Mac needs a System Folder containing two files, "System" and "Finder." Realistically, you need some other stuff too, but under system software earlier than 7, that should be enough to boot the machine. Likewise, a floppy disk with that folder and those two files will also start up the SE. I think that Apple has old system software available from their ftp site (my school's public fileserver has versions up through 7.1, therefore those systems are probably freely available from Apple). You would probably want to download disk images for system version 6.0.5 or 6.0.8 (there should be four 800k disks), make floppies out of them, then boot with the "System Tools" disk and run the installer. It will make whichever hard drive you choose be a bootable volume. The "System Tools" and "Utilities 1" diskettes are both bootable -- Utils 1 has Disk First Aid for basic diagnostics and directory repairs, and HDSC Setup for initializing or formatting a hard disk. You can also make a bootable hard drive by drag-copying the system folder from one of the floppies to your hard drive, but it's better to use the installer so you get all the goodies and doodads beyond the minimum system. If you can't find disk images, I can email or ftp them to you. -- MB

27 years, 7 months

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Old, but not

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

It really depends where you are. Here in Boston, a largely academic city, 386 computers are very easily available and anyone who wants one can get it. In less populated places this might be more useful. BTW, a lot of 386 machines have very interesting cards and drives. Be sure to raid them before giving them to a user. >I frequently get given 286 and 386 computers as well as hearing about >people that are just throwing them away. Does anyone else on this >list try to find homes for these things, or know of homes? It seems >such as waste to throw out perfectly good computers just because they >don't run the current rage of the day. Word processing is best. I really don't recommend giving computers to schools because the teachers are often incompetent, and the computers will often sit doing nothing. A better solution is to give them to individuals that don't have computers. >A couple of places I have found: people who need word processing, but >can't afford a computer; elementary school classrooms where the >district either won't or can't buy computers for them; some "rescue >mission" type places where basic training is provided. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

-4 years old, and living in the USSR. I don't agree that VC++ is necessarily seven decimal places cheaper, since not all of the files in VC++ are part of the program, or even made by microsoft. I would say that the total amount of code written just for VC++ 5.0 and on the CD is more like 25 MB. >Max, how old were you in 1978? :-) Let's see, $150 in 1978 would be >at least $500 in today's dollars, maybe 12 cents a hand-crafted byte. >Today's Visual C 5.0 is about 131 megs installed at about $500, or >about seven decimal places in the less expensive direction. But many more people would still buy it. Plus, organizations that didn't want to pirate stuff but wanted to use BASIC. > >Pish-posh. In 1978, we're talking about a bunch of scroungy ex- >or current- ham radio operators who'd cross the street to pick up >two pennies on the sidewalk. I am not generally aware of the software in those bins, and am consistently surprised by things that used to cost about $70 only a couple of years ago. But, CompUSA reeks, and so does the discount bin :) >Even today, why do people routinely pirate software that can be had >for $20 in the CompUSA discount bin? > >- John > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I could've sworn you spoke rather higher of it about a year ago...anyway, I guess I can now understand why it is chosen as the best example of Bill Gates' work :) but why is it always discussed (on Trimph of the Nerds, for example) in terms of early personal software? Is it that this was the best program for the Altair? >The early BASIC he did was buggy as hell too. The first version that >was semi OK for 8k basic was 3.51. > >Allison > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Thrift store finds

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I picked them because they're typicall known as hobbyist buses. >Interesting that you picked those 2 buses. The S100 bus is really the >8080 CPU bus with a few changes and ISA (at least the 8 bit part) is the >8088 CPU bus with, again, a few changes. They're almost Processor Direct >buses themselves. >-tony > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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[OT] Alphaserver Oops!

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Interesting. On an IBM 5150-descendant, I have (accidentaly) found that it's possible to do almost anything without causing damage. This includes card swapping, dropping screws, and other things with a live system. >Most are their for two reasons on DEC hardware. One, so you don't >pull a card with power applied, instant fried system. >Allison > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This is sort of getting off topic, but here is my final thought on this: the iMac looks cute, but it is no friendlier than any other mac. It has the same software, and very similar hardware. I don't think modern macs are very friendly because they suffer from the same problems as windows- lots of crud tacked on to an inadequate base. I have no idea why the iMac is more likely to bring in a new layer of users than (say) the Sony VAIO or one of the Toshiba systems. Sure, they're dung, but so is the iMac when it's been stared at for a year. As has been said before, while the original Mac offered a GUI for fairly little in a fairly GUI-free world with Apple's name behind it, the iMac offers a blue box in a black and beige world with a much weaker Apple behind it. >The iMac will change (or at least attempt to change) computing by >bringing in a whole new layer of users -- ones that even the cheapy >clone PC's couldn't attract. Similar to the ones that were attracted >to the original Mac, but less adventuresome. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Compaq portable questions (not laptop)

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

> >I have recently obtained a machine that when carried resembles a sewing > >machine in a carry case, marked Compaq Portable. It has a built in CRT > >and is evidentally an 8088 or 8086 machine judging by the 8 bit slots. > > > >Anyone have any info on it, and is there any collectability to these? As has already been pointed out, these are not rare - but I gotta add, they sure are well built. Mine has only had a shorted tantalum cap on the mobo and a new hard disk - but otherwise quite robust, lots of metal and gold, plastic doesn't show much age, etc. It's one of those worth more to me than I could ever sell it for. I use it just for the parallel port out to experiements (stepper motor control, etc) Kudos to Compaq for making PC's that are built to last. CHuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by franke＠sbs.de

John: > Sam: >>Absolutely. I agree 100%. If he had priced it in the range that a >>hobbyist could afford, and proportionate to the cost of the system ($500 >>for the kit?) then people would buy it. Its nothing to throw down $25 or >>$50 if you're getting a manual and support with that. > Pish-posh. In 1978, we're talking about a bunch of scroungy ex- > or current- ham radio operators who'd cross the street to pick up > two pennies on the sidewalk. Even today, why do people routinely > pirate software that can be had for $20 in the CompUSA discount bin? Shure, you never get 100% sales, but with a lower price, the number of people buying will increase. Not only from people not pirating, but also a lot among people who wouldn't had the chance to copy and didn't buy because of the price. Software is still not eatable (or drinkable) and people don't NEED all the soft they are buying and copying. THis just prevents them from paying a unreasonable price. In fact, before the build in (Microsoft) Basic of my Apple ][+ I never owned a Basic. Shure, I thought about it, and was able to use it (tried HP Basic), but there was no real need to pay money for a language. I could do anything I want in Assembly. In fact it took a long time until I found some usefull things to do with HLLs other than Macro-Assm (Still today most of my programming is in Assm). All this moarning, crieing and juggling about piracy realy misses the point. High prices could only be reached if there is a return of this cost to the buyer thru usage of the software. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Listserver membership

by franke＠sbs.de

> It occurs to me that if the listserver should be shut down at this location, > we *really* should have a list of members to inform them of the new > location. Does anyone have a list? Hopefully, things will remain as they > are, but it never hurts to be prepared. Why ? Just send a Mail to the list with the new address (think a fall back is already installed @nut.net) and all members will get it - using a members list and do this manual, would not give a diference. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Re[: Collectable PCs

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I ran some service calls on Columbia pc's around 1987. As I was raised in the Washington, DC suburbs (Silver Spring, Maryland) and had been to Columbia, Maryland (which is located halfway between Washington and Baltimore many times, I was surprised when reading the documentation of the pc which stated it was made in Columbia, Maryland. Several years later I needed to order a replacement motherboard and discovered they had moved to Florida. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Collectable PCs Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/9/98 4:10 PM Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/9/98 8:37:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Marty(a)itgonline.com writes: > > << Does your Columbia list it as having been made in Columbia, Maryland? > I believe their early pc's were made in Columbia, Maryland, later they > moved to Florida. > >> > I will look. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. i will let you know when > I find out. > Paxton I have 3 Columbia portable XT's.. Didn't know they were made in Florida. Could be why there seem to be so many in the thrift stores down here in Florida.. I have never been able to find anything on the internet about these machines, looked everywhere and nothing found.. If anyone has any web sites with info on them, or knows some history on them sure would like to hear from you... Phil... ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov09.161030.1767.76473; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:10:30 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA17730; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:08:14 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA50904 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:08:00 -0800 Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA04 536 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:07:59 -0800 Received: from server (ip53.fort-myers3.fl.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.206.53]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA05623 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:07:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <36475A0B.54F3(a)pop.a001.sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:09:31 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Phil Clayton <handyman(a)sprintmail.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Collectable PCs References: <a009459f.36475602(a)aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

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1802 docs

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ooh. I don't have anything from DDJ or Kilobaud. What issues? I'd have to dig them out to get the dates. Likely around 1978-79. < > I also have a copy of quest tiny Basic, hex dump, paper tape and it's < > manual. < < How big is tiny BASIC? How did you communicate with it? A terminal < over a 1854 UART? It's 2k (fits in a 2716), romable and was sold that way as well. IO in the version I have expects UT4 (monitor) or the equivelent. UT4 uses EF4 and Q to do bit serial to tty. Oh, I bought it because it was cheap ($10 in 1978) and never used it! I was having more fun running small stuff in asm. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< It's all a matter of time, place and comparison. What was DEC charging < for a box, OS and BASIC at the time? An 8E with basic, enough core and tty would likely be about 14-18k maybe less. Used it could be in the under $3000 range in '77. In 1972 I was offered a pdp-8I with he works(TTY, RS08, DECTAPE, 32k core) for a mere $10,000 operating! It was a bit steep for me but a new chevy truck then was $3300. < >Absolutely. I agree 100%. If he had priced it in the range that a < >hobbyist could afford, and proportionate to the cost of the system ($50 < >for the kit?) then people would buy it. Its nothing to throw down $25 < >$50 if you're getting a manual and support with that. < < Pish-posh. In 1978, we're talking about a bunch of scroungy ex- < or current- ham radio operators who'd cross the street to pick up < two pennies on the sidewalk. Even today, why do people routinely < pirate software that can be had for $20 in the CompUSA discount bin? That characterization was at best inaccurate. The members of LICA (LI computing ASSOC) were less than 25% hams, many(60%) were professionals in the industry (mostly large iron). Most were techs and hard wroking slobs that the price of a KIM-1 was stiff for them and $350 for Basic was several weeks pay. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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1802 docs

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have broken out the box box 'o 1802 stuff. In it are: I don't have the VIP but I have the manuals for one. I also have the articles from Popular Electronics, DDJ and Kilobaud. I also have the basic DOCS for the 1802. COS/MOS Memories, Microprocessors, and support systems 1979. This includes data and schematics for the CDP18S6xx series modules. MPM201 User manual for the RCA CDP1802 CPSMAC Microprocessor. MPM203 Evaluation kit manual for the RCA CDP1802 COSMAC Microprocessor (1976) MPM206 Binary Aritmetic subroutines for RCA cosmac Microprocessors I also have a copy of quest tiny Basic, hex dump, paper tape and it's manual. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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1802 docs

by franke＠sbs.de

> < I have broken out the box box 'o 1802 stuff. In it are: > I also have the basic DOCS for the 1802. The 1802 data sheets are still available from Harris. New, and PDFied. Also for most of the pheripheral parts. > MPM206 Binary Aritmetic subroutines for RCA cosmac Microprocessors > I also have a copy of quest tiny Basic, hex dump, paper tape and it's > manual. These two ar e very interesting. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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History of "Multimedia" (Was:iMac AddOn (was:Future Collect

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > In 1970 a college art prof told me that "multimedia" is 2 or more Koda > Carousel projectors plus a sound track. In response to questions he d > insist that no substitutions were permitted. How pandatic of him. When I was in school a few years before that multimedia was sound, pictures in the form of Video, Still pictures, moving pictures, lights and maybe action! The concept of the time was hit as many senses as was possible. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Absolutely. I agree 100%. If he had priced it in the range that a < hobbyist could afford, and proportionate to the cost of the system ($500 < for the kit?) then people would buy it. Its nothing to throw down $25 o < $50 if you're getting a manual and support with that. The KIT was $500, but that only got you the box and a CPU. Ram was expensive then and the IO was either serial, tape, or parallel so you also needed a TTY or CRT(I used CT1024). Still BASIC for MITS prices was ok but as Billy's price it was out of reach. FYI at the time of the article (early '75) a system with 32k of ram, cassette and serial IO would be over $3500! The 8800 was cheap, but not that cheap. Three years later (early 1978) that price would have dropped to 1500 or less due to the lower cost of memory boards and the lower cost of the system itself. The Disk system would be around late '76 early 77 with software to lag behind it. In 1977 you could get languages, for far less than $100 and many offered features that MSbasic did not have. Examples of this were PT basic, Focal and NS* disk BASIC. Also Tiny basic was published along with a little later LLL8k Basic as examples of free software with sources available. That trend nearly killed MS and did put a few others under. It was very hard to make a buck on paper tape or cassette based software. Affordable disk systems opened up the market and made it a serious force for applied software. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > < > for a intersil 6100 (12 bit pdp-8) based system. < > < < < Do tell. A small potload of them for the Intersil sampler, there was an article in Microcomputing December 1979 (P54), also the intersil data books and schematics for some of the board level porducts and app notes. Also several megabytes of PDP-8 software and a DECMATEIII to run it on. < That wasn't memory mapping. The 1861 DMA'ed the video data out. No, that was how it transfered the data to the CRT (it would read memory with DMA and serialize it add sync and all). the User would write data to the memory map that was display memory to change the pattern on the screen. That makes it memory mapped. the fact that it used DMA was a simplification of the hardware. < I saw one at the Computer Museum of America, but I don't think it is < available. There are still a bunch around. They only made maybe 20-30,000 of the 8E/8A series. < Well... they _were_ nice and bright. Ah, the countless hours I spent < staring at those ember-bright dots, counting toggle pulses in my head < to fix a one-byte bug. First thing I added was four more to latch the address. < Ob1802Trivia - don't execute the one "missing" instruction, 0x68. ISTR < that the CPU went berserk and whomped memory randomly. Well, all of the 6Xh instructions manipulate the X register directly or indirectly. 60 inc X R(X)+1->R(X) ! memory pointer pointed to by R(X) is ! incremented What's significant is the operation is a dummy output but since having the N lines with 000 on them was a nop all it does is increment the pointer. 61->67 out M(R(X)) ->BUS; R(X)+1 -> R(X) Effectively output a byte pointed to by R(X) to the device and increment R(X). The N lines will have a value of 1->7 depending on opcode. 69->6F input BUS -> M(R(X)); BUS -> D Now... the cosmac uses the high bit of the N register to signal internall that the instruction is a input so.... 68 inpGarbage BUS -> M(R(X)); BUS -> D In this case bus content is undefined so you just trashed the accumulator (D) and the memory pointed to by R(X). On my system due to the pullups on the bus and all that meant a FFh was loaded every time. Handy way to stuff a -1. The COSMAC is a real simple machine and it's behavour is very predictable with one general exception... The CMOS process in the late 70s had horrendous propagation delays and the timing of the chip was very variable with voltage. So at very fast clocks the timing on some signals could have a negative setup at one voltage and a positive setup if the voltage was higher. I know of few people that ever ran successfully at the rated maximum. At moderate speeds it was easy to use. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< and deluging the market with bad software. The only problem is, everyon < said "OK, Bill. Here's my checking account. Don't worry about fixing the < kinda gives your software 'character'." The early BASIC he did was buggy as hell too. The first version that was semi OK for 8k basic was 3.51. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< At the time, MITS had an absolutely miserable 4K dynamic memory board. < This was one of the few ways that they could entice folks to buy it. The 88MCD was poor, the S4K slightly better and neither would work with z80s without being severely hacked! I had three of each and they were all junk. Why three of each... at one point S4Ks were offered less rams to anyone that had 88MCDs at a ok price. I was able to make them acceptably reliable by pulling the Drams and putting in compatable static parts (NEC uPD410). The board layout still stank and the general noise level on the bus didn't help. Up grading the bus to a WAMCO or compupro with terminations helped. Replacing the whole machine with a NS* Horizon was a vast step forward. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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History of "Multimedia" (Was:iMac AddOn (was:Future Collect

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Fred: > On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: >> The term "multimedia" was known -- I remember suffering through some bad >> performance art back then. And the MindSet PC (1984) was positioned as a >> graphics and sound machine to differentiate it from IBM, but the Amiga did >> a better job (I bought mine to play with computer music). > > In 1970 a college art prof told me that "multimedia" is 2 or more Kodak > Carousel projectors plus a sound track. In response to questions he did > insist that no substitutions were permitted. > > In 1979 I used the cassette relay of a TRS-80 model 1 to advance slides > on a Carousel. But it was only one. I've never had a "multimedia" system. > > Has "multimedia" changed since then :-? :-) At the camera club to which I belong, a presentation with 2 carousel projectors and a sound track is called "an AV", presumably meaning audio-visual. A friend recently gave me a good description of multimedia: "... the use of two or more media that don't go well together. If they did, they wouldn't be multimedia, but form a new medium, like cinema (film + sound)" Your prof sounds like an ultra-conservative don out of touch with the world. I encountered similar at [high? Age 16] school - the German teacher (i.e. he taut the language, not came from Germany) who didn't admit the existence of the verb programmieren. > Now all of the hype is "3D". I have used some 3D illusion systems, such > as StereoGraphics. But all of the "3D" stuff that is being hyped is on > purely two dimensional video monitors. What's going on? > > Can anyone explain to me in what way a processor is "3D"?? I don't know how a processor can be 3d, though a transputer array (or similar) could easily be 3D. A 3D graphics system on a purely 2D display is AFAIK one with functions like shading, hidden line removal, etc. that you need to display 2D views of virtual 3D objects. Philip.

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Bill Gates, in his "Open Letter to Hobbyists" mentioned earlier, tells And for those who don't have the issue of BYTE that this appeared in, here's the letter. Note the "old" address in New Mexico, and the hyphenated version of "Micro-Soft": AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS February 3, 1976 By William Henry Gates III An Open Letter to Hobbyists To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market? Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000. The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour. Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is some to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid? Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft. What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at. I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software. Bill Gates General Partner, Micro-Soft -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 7 months

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Compaq portable questions (not laptop)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

which came first, this compaq model, or the IBM 5155? > >I have recently obtained a machine that when carried resembles a sewing > >machine in a carry case, marked Compaq Portable. It has a built in CRT > >and is evidentally an 8088 or 8086 machine judging by the 8 bit slots. > > > >Anyone have any info on it, and is there any collectability to these?

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > What's wrong with 2114s? I've used them in a lot of projects and produ < > and they fine if a x4 orginization is handy. I have 24 of them in use < > for a intersil 6100 (12 bit pdp-8) based system. < < Any schematics? ;-) Yep! < I've seen schematics, and it's not the 6845 end of things that daunts me < it's the 1802 end, trying to adapt a 6800/6502 bus interface to the mor < limited 1802 interface implementation. Effectively it's the difference < between memory mapped I/O and non-memory mapped I/O thaat have got me. Memory mapped IO on the 1802 was trivial to do and could be used to good advantage (1861 used it for the display). < Coincidentally, I purchased a PDP-8/L at 16 for the princely sum of $35 Had an 8e years ago and gave it away, looking for another. < Still, the latch required +5.0VDC, the only part with a tight power < requirement. The latch was not fussy about power, the led portion was power hog. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Power interlocks (was Re: [OT] Alphaserver Oops!)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 8:51 PM Subject: Power interlocks (was Re: [OT] Alphaserver Oops!) <<<snip!>>> >I'd suggest defeating interlocks only if you are *sure* you know what >you're doing, not if you *think* you know. In the case of the Alphaserver >that was cited in the earlier email, it is clear that the person opening the >machine did NOT know what was inside it, and it would have been entirely >inappropriate to defeat the interlock.

27 years, 7 months

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OT: General power supply question

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

Sam: (It was Sam, wasn't it?) > > If I have a center negative power supply (the diagram shows that the > negative is in the center of the connector) does that mean the center of > the connector on the device to be powered should be connected to the > ground plane? Tony: > One of Vonada's Laws is 'There is no such thing as ground'. This has 2 > distinct meanings, BTW, both of them applicable to classic computers. The > first (and the one we need here) is that voltmeters have 2 probes and you > can take the reference where you like. The other is that a ground > connection has impedance, so all the points you thought were ground may > in fact be at different voltages. > > Anyway, that said, it is common in most systems to have the ground plane > at the -ve supply voltage. Exceptions are most ECL systems (which run off > a -5.2V supply, and thus the +ve side of the supply goes to the ground > plane), some discrete transistor machines (the HP9100's main supply rail > is at -15V wrt the ground plane), and probably others. > > But in 99% of TTL machines (and things using TTL-compatible > microprocessors, etc), the ground plane is, indeed, -ve. I've forgotten who else attempted to answer the question - Tony's was by far the best reply - but one or two things need clearing up. Person who said check continuity between centre pin of socket and ground on the machine. That tells you if it _is_ connected to the ground plane. Sam wanted to know if it _should be_ connected - i.e. he seems to be adapting a machine for which he has no PSU to work with a PSU he has. Person who talked about safety earthing. All true, but I think the question was about the ground plane within the machine, and whether it should be connected to the negative supply rail, not whether the machine needs to be earthed. Tony: Agreed 99%. But there are one or two exceptions as you imply - wasn't it you who eold me about the machine which regulates the negative rail with a -5V regulator and makes that the ground? The positive rail is then +5V and the unregulated negative is around -5V for serial ports and things. If the supply you are using is a regulated 5V supply, then + and - terminals go to +5V rail and ground plane respectively. If it is not, try and trace supply rails back to a regulator. It should then be possible to work out which way the regulation is done. But as Tony says, in 99% of machines the answer is yes. If you tell us what the machine is, there will probably be someone on the list who can tell you how to wire it up. Philip.

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:07 PM 11/9/98 PST, you wrote: >significance, I doubt it will be remembered any better than many other >machines. It seems hard for me to imagine the iMac or any other >technologically vanilla modern computer will ever end up in a museum. So the IBM PC was hot stuff? I don't think so. It sold, and will be remembered, because it was IBM's stamp of approval on the (then) latest round of "Computers will change the way you do business." Back then, the theory was "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" and so it was that even though it was "technologically vanilla", the PC sold and made a serious impact. Likewise, many of the other very collectible or desireable computers are much less technologically innovative than they are socially (computer-wise) important. [From another message] >Even if we ignore that the plain G3 systems would likely have been >enough? I heard that Apple sold out of their new G3s even before the >iMac came out. All of the detail to which you refer will be forgotten The iMac is cute. It is friendly, something Grandma's are more likely to feel comfortable with than your standard PC. It is something that the upscale will be happy to have in their home -- you know, those weird people who have exactly three magazines (and nothing else) on their coffee table and don't have dozens of cables running (visibly!) through their homes, the way we do. Richard Fish (of Ally McBeal) had one in his apartment. BMW's are not exceptional cars. They're fine, much like many others available on the market. But all the yuppies want them, because they're beemers. The iMac is the same. And for that, it will be remembered and, eventually, collected. >in 15 years. By historic, I mean of the magnitude of the original >macintosh, or the PC XT, or Apple II, or Altair, or C64, and others. >These truly changed the face of computing, unlike the iMac. The iMac will change (or at least attempt to change) computing by bringing in a whole new layer of users -- ones that even the cheapy clone PC's couldn't attract. Similar to the ones that were attracted to the original Mac, but less adventuresome. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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Collectable PCs

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:56 PM 11/8/98 EST, you wrote: >on a piece of equipment this would be a good example. My reasons in order of >priority: 1) first popular clone, 2) all the original -parts (including ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exsqueeze me? Um... Don't think it qualifies as "popular" at all, and I have to question the "first" part as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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DOS browser

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:35 PM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >Take a look at this on C/Net >http://cnet.com/Resources/Topdownloads/PC/Result/Download/0,162,57820,00.ht… I use Arachne a lot -- I do all my web dev in a DOS Text Editor, and then (if I'm not running Windows at the moment) use Arachne to Preview it. Works great, except that the latest version (that I have) builds a couple of directories whereever you happen to be, so I wrote a perl pgm and batch file to jump to the Arachne directory and load the web page from there. Anyway, I haven't used it to go on-line, but it apparently can. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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Altair Speculation

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:46 PM 11/9/98 PST, you wrote: >>Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - > >You are right in your assertion that feedback for someone >who is a bidder makes little difference. However, for Well, I disagree... It's perhaps not as important for bidders as it is for sellers, but it is still important. I have had sellers ship stuff right away instead of waiting for my check to clear because I have a decent feedback rating. I do the same when I sell; if the high bidder has decent feedback, I'll ship right away. >items. This happened because I have a perfect feedback >profile and that alone results in higher bids. I have seen I don't know that I would bid higher based on feedback, but maybe I bid on different stuff. (I did once not bid seriously because the seller had a feedback of 1, posted by a user from the same domain with a feedback of 0.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 07:22 AM 11/10/98 -0500, cswiger wrote: > >>From the February '76 Computer Notes: > >8K BASIC - $200 > w/ purchase - $75 Puts the "bundle Windows with all your boxes or else" tactic in a new light, doesn't it? :-) - John

27 years, 7 months

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Posted tonight

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what was posted to my ClassicCmp site tonight: - remaining parts of R6500 Programming manuals [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I'd be interested in one, too. I'd consider a bare board for about $40 with a parts sources listing (particularly for the hard-to-get parts). Modern component substitutions would be acceptable I think. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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XPOST: Adoptables and fairly cheapo machines available - NC

by dburrows＠netpath.net

If someone is interested is any of this my wife works in Chapel Hill and could bring it home and I can box and ship it. Please just check with me before comitting her - she doesn't know she has been conned yet. Dan Burrows 336-376-0468 dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 5:23 PM Subject: XPOST: Adoptables and fairly cheapo machines available - NC >This is a new post on the Obsolete Computer Helpline that I thought >someone may have an interest in. Write to Mike Smith, not me, on these >items. >------------------------------ > >Michael M. Smith <snuggemsnospam(a)nospam.bearwolf.com> >Cary, NC USA - Tuesday, November 10, 1998 at 10:44:04 > > (Remove the nospams when you reply) > > It's time to clean house. I have numerous machines that need to >find homes, for reasonable prices. How > reasonable? Make an offer. Not interested in making any money off >these, as most were given to me or > purchased for a small fee that I've gotten my money's worth out of >from tinkering. > > 1. A TI-99/4A computer with speech synth, power adapter, RF >adapter, cassette program recorder with cables, > many software packages with most in original boxes (The software, >not the machine) Its the black and chrome > model, and everything works perfectly. Oh, and it has the joysticks >with it too. Not sure how well they work. > > 2. Kaypro 1 luggable. Powers up and tries to boot, but no system >disk available. See TRS-80 entry, its disks > might work. > > 3. Kaypro 4 luggable. Same as above. > > 4. Atari 5200 game system. Trackball controller, Atari 2600 >adapter, three 5200 joysticks, one 2600-compatible > joystick, several cartridges. Trackball and joysticks could use >some cleaning, can't get them all to work right. > > 5. TRS-80 Model 4. Manuals, disks, extra programming books, even a >copy of Zaxxon...Looks awful in b&w > though. The B drive is a little flaky, might need cleaning, might >need more. It has TRS-DOS and CP/M 2.2 so > these disks might work with the Kaypros mentioned above. > > 6. Atari 800XL with two 1050 disk drives, the 410 tape recorder, >and a "Big Blue" thermal roll printer. Several > manuals and disks and cartridges. Not in the best of shape, is >quite dirty. One of the 1050 drives is in its original > packaging. Not sure if this works. > > Interested adopters need to be in the RTP area of North Carolina >(Raleigh, Durham, Chapel-Hill) as I am not > willing to ship these items. Any questions regarding specific >cartridges may be addressed to me. Thanks, and help > me get rid of this clutter! Some really interesting items for a >computer museum. > > I also have an IBM PS/2 model 35sx with 16MB of RAM and a 420MB IDE >hard drive (It's an IDE and ISA > model) that I might let out for adoption too, but will have to ask >$30 to recoup the cost of the RAM and the > harddrive I put in it. > > Thanks again! Mike >

27 years, 7 months

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Thrift store finds

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> One expansion slot (I don't know what kind, but = >it allowed for a video card so you could drive a second display, = >and a commonly-found configuration is an SE driving a giant = >grayscale two-page display). It's a PDS (Processor Direct Slot). As the name implies, a way to connect something directly to the processor. This means that the card that can be plugged in depends on the processor, and also that designing such a card isn't as pleasant as for ISA or S-100 or others. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Entended BASIC - $350 < > w/ purchase - $150 < < Sheesh! No wonder nobody paid for the stuff. These are bloated prices < especially in 1976 dollars. And at current prices a system with enough ram to run extended basic would set you back at least $2000 and that does not include IO or terminal. One caveat, you had to purchase the Altair from MITS and the minimum amount of ram needed to run the package from them too. FYI: in 1977 you could buy a chevy pickup for $6500 to put that price in perspective. The Processor Technology, Digital Group (later TDL) and other folks were turning out software by the pound. It was cheap, good and available. IT was the Gates debacal and people like PCC (AKA Doctor Dobbs) that started the free software revolution and a legacy of so 20,000 free or copyleft programs for the 8080/z80 families alone, likely as much for 6502 based systems. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Another resource for older systems

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>Were you aware of the fact that the listed site is in the Netherlands? Yes and I also noted a some US listings and there are several European posters on this list. Dan

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by rcini＠email.msn.com

John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote >>There's no reason for him to surrender the copyright; we could >>merely ask for permission to redistribute. I think the PR aspect >>would be a two-edged sword, though - the open source movement >>would have a field day with the notion that Gates finally came >>around and now allows free distribution of one of his products, >>yet I'm sure Microsoft's PR agency could get some mileage from >his benevolence to the classic computer community. From what I've heard, this redistribution idea has made its way around Microsoft (several times) and suffered bit rot. The potential revenues (zero or cost of duplication) outweighed the internal costs. I still pitch the idea to my MS contact occasionally, though. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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[OT] Alphaserver Oops!

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Today, for no good reason, our AlphaServer starts making a funny noise. Sounds like something trapped in the fan, but as long as the box doesn't go down, we're safe. It's our main server. So, being the way I am, I decide on a little surgery with the power on. This is the 1st mistake. So, I open the cover to the disks. (THis is an AS 4/266) Lotta dust in there, gotta blow it out! Reward: Dust in eyes. Lotta fun. Then I spot a little tab toward the top of the case. "Top Cover Latch" Aha! Here's what we're after! So, I unlatch it, and pull the lid off. *CLICK!* Whirrrrrrrrr.... *silence* Seems there's a power interlock in the top cover! Oops. -------

27 years, 7 months

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Help identifying HP boards

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Can someone help this guy identify the HP boards he has in his collection? Please reply to the requestor. Reply-to: nelske(a)earthlink.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:19:03 -0800 From: Kevin Nelson <nelske(a)earthlink.net> This is a four board assembly with each board numbered slightly different. The boards are numbered; (A) 5087-1008 D-1117-22 (B) 5087-1002 E-1117-22 (C) 5087-1003 D-1003-22 (D) 5087-1004 D-1117-22 and all have hand written M11148 73-21-044 The M11148 is the serial number. The total assembly contains 139,264 cores. Thanks for the help. Kevin Nelson Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web page update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 12:25 PM 11/10/98 -0800, Sam wrote: >Sheesh! No wonder nobody paid for the stuff. These are bloated prices, >especially in 1976 dollars. The funny thing is, in 1978 I attended a trade show/conference called PerComp '78 in Long Beach California looking for an 8K BASIC for my Digital Group Z80 system. I talked to Bill, who was there selling BASIC at these ridiculous (to me) prices. He told me that Micro-soft didn't have a version of BASIC for my system. He went further however, and suggested that if I wanted to come work for him he would pay me with the royalties generated by the sale of my version. Needless to say I figured anyone who was trying to sell BASIC (which I figured I could write on my own in about 3 months) for more than a third what I paid for my complete computer was not going to be around long enough for me to collect any royalties... --Chuck

27 years, 7 months

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Compaq portable questions (not laptop)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This is the world's first clone of the 5150. It is also the world's first Compaq. You have judged all of the specs correctly. It should be selling for $100,000 on eBay, because it is at least as important as the Altair. After all, this launched the IBM PC-Compatible revolution. I would say this is definitely a must in any computer museum. However, these aren't generally considered valuable. Go figure. >I have recently obtained a machine that when carried resembles a sewing >machine in a carry case, marked Compaq Portable. It has a built in CRT >and is evidentally an 8088 or 8086 machine judging by the 8 bit slots. > >Anyone have any info on it, and is there any collectability to these? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Posted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what was posted today to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ - R6500 Programmer's Manual: part 4 and 5 - CSG datasheets: 6530 and 6560 [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================>

27 years, 7 months

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Exidy Sorcerer Site Begun

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Seeing that there is little on the net about the Exidy Sorcerer, I've started to put together my own. So far I've only begun to HTMLize some of my Sorcerer docs. Currently I have almost completed the intro manual which shipped with the system. Just have the last chapter and the appendix to do. Plan on placing other doc and info here as well. I'll also be placing a chronicle of my attempt at building a new expansion box for this system. If anyone has anything they would like to contribute, let me know and we can work out something to get a copy up. You can find it at: http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 00:46 10/11/98 -0500, Ethan Dicks <erd(a)infinet.com> wrote: >> > The problem with replicating the SuperElf is the keyboard. I have no >> > idea where to get that chip from (74941?), nor an inexpensive source >> > for that many pushbuttons (including some latching ones). [Snip] >If you'd seen the Elf-II schematic, I don't think you would have responded >that way. I was never suggesting cannibalizing AT keyboards. They are >entirely unsuitable. The original Elf-II has a keypad built up from >individual pushbutton key switches, including several ones that latch >up and down for LOAD, RUN and MEM PROT. The hex digits are latched >through a (then) standard keyboard encoder chip. [Snip] >I was suggesting finding modern parts from a distributor of new or >recycled (surplused) parts. I further suggested that modern replacements >could run as much as $2 or $3 per switch (20 switches - 0 to F, R, L, P >and I). As far as the keyboard encoder chip goes, you wouldn't be thinking of the 74922 would you? It's a 16 key keyboard encoder chip designed, as I remember, to encode a 4 x 4 key matrix. Or perhaps the 74923, a 20 key keyboard encoder (which uses a 5 x 4 key matrix). If some of the non-hex keys latch the 74922 would be more suitable, because I'm pretty sure both these chips can only recognise one key being pressed at a time. Anyway, according to the Australian edition of the Farnell catalogue, both these chips are still available. Farnell wants $A20.48 each for the 74C922 and $A20.52 each for the 74C923 (plus 22% sales tax) in quantities less than 25, and $A14.11 each for the 74C922 and $A14.37 each for the 74C923 (plus tax) in quantities between 25 and 100. However, Farnell is usually the most expensive place to buy components, so I'm sure you'll be able to find them somewhere cheaper (for example, an Australian company called Altronics stocks the 74C922 for $A12.95 each in quantities less than ten, and $A12.50 each for ten or more *including tax*). As far as the keys go, the momentary action (i.e. to 0-F) keys shouldn't be a problem. PCB mount NO push buttons (I think they're called D6 type) switches are available for $A1 each in small quantities. Alternatively you could use a hex keypad. Farnell lists one for $A14.72 (plus tax) in small quantities, so once again I'm sure you could find one even cheaper. That would only leave four of the relatively expensive latching switches to buy. Depending on the price, I'd probably be interested in one of these little machines too. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 7 months

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Unknown Apple // card images ref

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Ok, here are the images of that unknown Apple // card which I believe to be a modem. If someone knows for sure and can tell me how to hook up the phone line as well as doc/software, please drop me a line. Images can be found at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/a2card1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/a2card2.jpg Thanks for any help. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Oh, now I understand why you were disagreeing with me! Another debate over pedantics...if I go by this, my original statement is hereby revised to 'The iMac is not historic' >Err, no, I was saying that "historic" does not mean "revolutionary". >History reports impactful events more than innovative events. I don't think that the iMac is associated with saving Apple at all. If anyone in the future is familiar enough with the iMac to think it saved Apple, I would expect that the fact it is just a symptom of Steve Jobs' marketing abilities and nothing interesting in itself or even more desirable in any way than any other G3 will also be known. >The iMac will be seen as historic if it saves Apple (and that is yet to be >seen). And it will have a nice chunk of Jobs mythology behind it as well, >which sure doesn't hurt. > >-- Doug > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Barcodes (was: Re: Kilobaud Magazine)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> >>Thanks to Kai's generosity I finally fulfilled my lifelong quest to obtain >>a SoftStrip reader at the VCF. I am complete. >> > Naw... you are only complete when you find a copy of the software to > generate the Causin bar codes (yes, they did actually sell it!) and start > archiving your software on reams of paper! > > ...and when you find it, I want a copy too! > > -jim Eh? What's going on here? Is the barcode format not documented? If it is, should be trivial to write software to generate barcodes If it ain't, why is this system so desirable? Philip.

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > I happen to have a few tubes of both 2101 and 5101(cmos). < < Lucky you. I have a couple of 1822 (CMOS RCA part) and a few 2101's. < have not yet found a source of 50 to 100 256x4 2101-compatible SRAMs. < I do have a pile of 2114's, but I'd rather use something else. Those 2102s and 5101s are also 20 years old! I got them a while back. What's wrong with 2114s? I've used them in a lot of projects and products and they fine if a x4 orginization is handy. I have 24 of them in use for a intersil 6100 (12 bit pdp-8) based system. < I, too, have the VIP docs. We should compare offline to see if one has < something the other does not. Sure. I also have UT4 monitor rom. < Back in those days, I built the TVT-6 but never powered it up because I < never got my hands on a video monitor. I was just a kid, and a $75 to < $150 device might as well have been $75,000 or $150,000 for as little < as I had. By then I'd gotten in to the semiconductor industry and things like monitors and the like were less a problem. All that means is I'm older than you. ;) < The 1854 is still in production by Harris. I do not think that the 186 < is available, but it is the "correct" chip to use with the 1802. Anythi the 1861 was useless by my standard unless you wanted to play low res graphic games. At the time I was building up a system to run Basic or better. < else, like a 6845, would be _way_ too much work to be worth the effort. Not really. < There is a 1871 keyboard encoder that is still in production. I even < have a small tube. Perhaps that could be a drop-in replacement on an < Elf-II replica. I'll visit the Harris web page and peruse the data shee I don't think so. < I was clearly never in your league, but then, I was just a snot nosed < kid with bigger dreams than my pocket book allowed for. At 16, I had < an Elf and a PET and was always pushing them to do more. At 16 the PDP-8 was just announced and running some $20k a copy. < That would work. I always wanted a CMOS replacement for the TIL311 disp < so that I could power it off of a lantern battery for virtually forever < It was the one TTL part on the Quest design. The led was the power hog, the latch/decoder was only a fraction of that. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> One thing you do do is prevent > good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional > work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into >programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute >for free? It is interesting that nowadays, many computer hobbyists release the source, and don't expect to make a whole lot of money from their products, not only in relation to GNU, but many independent writers of freeware. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what Bill Gates is saying, just strikes me as a little curious. How much did a copy of BASIC cost, anyway? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Barcodes (was RE: Kilobaud Magazine)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Actually, I included a copy of the software with Sam's SoftStrip reader :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Saturday, November 07, 1998 9:27 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Kilobaud Magazine At 09:06 AM 11/7/98 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >Then of course there was the Causin SoftStrip reader. The Apple magazine >Nibble (among others) used to print strips about 5/8" wide that you could >cut out and run through the reader to load the published programs into >your computer instead of typing in listings. > >Thanks to Kai's generosity I finally fulfilled my lifelong quest to obtain >a SoftStrip reader at the VCF. I am complete. Naw... you are only complete when you find a copy of the software to generate the Causin bar codes (yes, they did actually sell it!) and start archiving your software on reams of paper! ...and when you find it, I want a copy too! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 7 months

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CLASSICCMP endangered?

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1832 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981109/2690bc5e/at…

27 years, 7 months

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Altair Speculation

by franke＠sbs.de

>>Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - >>I did a lot of eBay transactions within the last year >>(>20) and have still a feedback of Zero - I don't care. > You are right in your assertion that feedback for someone > who is a bidder makes little difference. However, for > a seller (like myself) it is extremely important. > For example, I just had two auctions end tonight in which > my bids for both of the items were about double that > of what is usually realized on ebay for the same identical > items. This happened because I have a perfect feedback > profile and that alone results in higher bids. I have seen > it time and again. My advice to anyone who wishes to sell > repeatedly on eBay is to do whatever it takes to protect > your feedback profile. In my case, it means a policy > of satisfaction or money refunded (and I have rarely > been asked to grant a refund). Hard to belive for me. Ok, I can only take myself as example, and a Feedback couldn't change the bid in any way. If I want an item I will bid as far as I belive it is worth. An all negative feedback could maybe avoide bidding at, but this hasn't happen 'till now. The way Auctions are described shows way more about the personality then any feedback - especialy when taking in account that americans tend to praise anything that just works out ordinary in bight colours. I also stumbled within the last year across more than one seller with a positive feedback, witch turned out to be a real troll later on. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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list host?

by franke＠sbs.de

> If we don't find a list owner at u of washington, I can host the list on my > home unix machine. Did I miss something ? Isn't the list running well without ? Never touch a running system. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Of course, since the iMac has little historical significance, I doubt it > Say what?! Jobs leaves Apple, Apple dies, Jobs rides his white horse back > to Apple, saves Apple with the iMac. What do you want, a big red sign > that says "COLLECT ME, I'M HISTORIC"? Maybe I have just a twisted idea of development, but >from my perceptions all this 'new' apple stuff was already on the line before Mr. Jobs turned his horse (And everything he had in his saddle bags has already been scraped - Unix ? Raphsody ? Pah! Actualy even MacOS X will be just a new MacOS release - at least folowing the last informations). Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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CLASSICCMP endangered?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:12 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >I've taken the bold step of setting up a new list. Feel free to >subscribe, but I don't think it would be a good idea to abandon the old >list until it ceases to exist. So what's your policy on list management? Light or invisible hand, or whips and paddles and excommunication for misbehavior? :-) - John

27 years, 7 months

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list host?

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> If we don't find a list owner at u of washington, I can host the list on my >> home unix machine. > > Did I miss something ? > Isn't the list running well without ? > Never touch a running system. Hans, Not so much running as freewheeling. The other day I thought mail problems here might have cut me off, so I sent a QUERY CLASSICCMP request to the list server. It said, List CLASSICCMP is locked by owner bskiver(a)u.washington.edu. No list-specific requests can be processed at this time. For further information please contact bcw(a)u.washington.edu bskiver(a)u.washington.edu . So I can't even ask about it, much less do anything. Others have been having similar problems. Philip.

27 years, 7 months

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Unknown Apple 2 card

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Man I have so much to catch up on after being sick. Well, I picked up an Apple //e, nothing special about that except it had LOTS of boards installed. Most //e I find have the 64K/80 col card and the disk controller and that's it. One of these cards has me stumped. It looks like it may be a modem but I have no idea where the phone connection might be. Well, I have a small idea. It is a two board set up with a good sized daughter board connected to the main card. The daughter board is label with Microcom. That and the speaker and the note about FCC Ringer Equivalence lead me to think modem. There are 16 dip switchs along the top of the main card. I'll take a picture and place it on my site tomorrow. If anyone could ID it and maybe help with doc or software I'd appriciate it. This same system also had an AE Z-80 Plus card. Anyone have the version of CP/M for that? Or doc? And finally, there was a PCPI APPLI-CARD. This appears to be another CP/M card. It contains a Z-80B and it's own bank of memory. Anyone have info it and the CP/M for it too? Never heard of two Z-80 cards in one system. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 7 months

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Optimists

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

Yes, there are still some around. A fellow is advertising an Apple II in the Windsor paper this morning, asking price--$ 600.00! Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

27 years, 7 months

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Thrift store finds

by Bob.Withers＠MCI.com

Phil, The stock SE was a 68000 with 800K floppy, 1MB RAM and a 20MB hard drive. I believe they were expandable on the mother board to 4MB by replacing the 4 256K SIMMs with 4 1Meg SIMMs (30 pin). There was also a SE30 which had a 1.44Meg floppy and a 68030 CPU. Regards, Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Bob Withers Bob.Withers(a)MCI.com Age is a horrible price to MCI Worldcom pay for maturity. Richardson, Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Clayton [SMTP:handyman@sprintmail.com] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:38 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Thrift store finds > > Found a nice Macintosh SE computer at my local Goodwill today. > Complete with 2 external boxes, one a CMS SCSI hard drive 90 MB, > The other a MacDirect SCSI Hard Drive 60MB.. > Nice Expanded keyboard and mouse, and all cables.. > Powers up just fine.. > I know nothing about these machines, as they passed me up in the 80's.. > So I guess its time I get to learn about them.. > Anyone know anything about the SE series ? > Speed, processors, memory ? > Phil...

27 years, 7 months

1
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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Although there are some software complexities, the hardware support need < for the single-supply Flash parts is simply providing a WE signal, just < like for an SRAM (but on a different pin, IIRC). What about 2816 or 2864 EEproms, easier to use than flash, single 5v too same footprint as 2716/6116(2kb) or 2764/6264(8kb). they are fairly cheap too. Like under 6$ from JAMECO or JDR. Allison

27 years, 7 months

1
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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have been in discussion with some folks about 1802's and the possibili < of producing a modern PCB for the Popular Electronicss Elf design. Han < Franke seems to think that there would be some interest in Germany for < a few units, enough to make me consider burning a board. I would be < curious to hear what other list members though about price, features, et < The good news is that Harris still makes the 1802 for less than $10, an < the TIL311 displays that the Elf calls for are available for less than $ < each, used. I'd be interested depending on version. < How authentic should a modern Elf be? Try to use 1822/2101 RAM or use If your building an elf then 2101, if your doing superElf go for 32k 62256. < UART? Add an I/O port? Add nothing to the Quest PCB layout? Remove < nothing? (There was a socket for a 16-pin PROM and room for onboard 780 < regulator as well as optional memory battery backup). The quest layout was the bare minimum elf. No expandability. I have one and expanding it is not appealing. An expandable elf would be of interest to me as I still have one (20 year old) 1802 doing not much. < How much would anyone pay for such a thing? The PCB would probably com < as a double-sided, plated thru-hole fiberglass board to the same dimensi < as the Quest board (I have one to compare it to). It would be in the < neighborhood of $40-$50, depending on how many extras and the order size For the quest board that is expensive for the bare board. < Another question, perhaps more on topic - would this count as a classic < It could be authentic as far as operation is concerned (toggle switches < and 256 bytes of accessible RAM), but it would still be on a modern < board, made recently. In short, does form or function denote "classic" I'd go with replica. < Yes, anyone who wants can still breadboard an 1802 together. It's a < pain. I never would have finished my Elf if I hadn't had the PCB < to stuff. The Elf99 would be a echo of the former classic, but a < fully working one. The base ELF was pretty trivial to build as the parts count was nothing. < Classic clones, anyone? Replicas of classics. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Thrift store finds

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

also, mac se models that had the factory hi density drive installed have the FDHD stamped on the front like mine. In a message dated 11/9/98 11:41:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Marion.Bates(a)Dartmouth.EDU writes: > Motorola 68000, 8MHz, expandable to 4MB, came with either two floppy drives > or one floppy and one internal hard disk (80MB I think), and at some point > there was an FDHD (Floppy Drive High Density) upgrade available -- SE's that > have had the upgrade and new front case will say "Superdrive" on the front. > Upgraded power supply -- not the same as the analog board in the similarly- > shaped Mac 128/512/Plus. One expansion slot (I don't know what kind, but it > allowed for a video card so you could drive a second display, and a commonly- > found configuration is an SE driving a giant grayscale two-page display). > Introduced in March 1987 and discontinued in October 1990.

27 years, 7 months

1
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list host?

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

If we don't find a list owner at u of washington, I can host the list on my home unix machine. Caviets apply - if the list clobbers me loadwise I'll have to ask it to move again. Can someone give me figures on how many people actually use this list? And for reference, my home unix machine runs continuously on the end of an ISDN link. It's a dx4/100 machine running linux. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 7 months

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Interesting finds, may be more....

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Gang, (I'm pretty sure that the system's discribed below are 10 yrs old) About a week ago I was out in Silicon Valley on business. I used to live out there so whenever I go out I try and hit all the surplus stores. At one place (name follows), I found a couple of interesting items. They had two models of old Panasonic computer. One was a Panasonic (senior?) Executive. This looked like a laptop on steroids. It was way too big for me to get back with me unless I was willing to trade space with some other stuff that I already had. They wanted $30 for it. It might still be there. The other item of interested was a (actually they had 2 on the shelf) beautiful Panasonic senior partner portable. This gem was cherry. It had never been used. For those of you not familiar with it, it has a built in thermal printer. It's about the size of one of the old compaq portables but the case has much smoother lines. It has a leather handle on one end that allows you to carry it in a vertical orientation, similar to the suitcases that the airline stewardess' use. The one I got still had the flimsy plastic protective cover on the leather handle. I also got a pristine roll of thermal paper still in plastic wrap, original manuals and diskettes. I wouldn't be metioning all of this except that as I was purchasing this prize (20 bucks by the way) and trying to find out if there was an original box available, the clerk told me that they about 30 of these still in their original boxes in the warehouse. They had just picked up the whole lot somewhere. So the chances are that they might still have a bunch if anyone is interested. I don't know if they will ship, but you can ask. If they don't then at least the list members who live in the bay area can check them out. If anyone is interested here's the info: Excess Solutions 430 E. Brokaw Road San Jose, CA 95112 (408) 573-7045 For the local guys, this place is located right on Brokaw about a block from the street that Fry's is on (towards 101) and on the same side of Brokaw as Fry's. Good luck. Jon

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Allison Parent resonds: < > If you're building an elf then 2101, if your doing superElf go for 32 < > 62256. < < If I can lay my hands on a quantity of 1822/2101 RAMs, then I agree, < even though they will cost as much as the CPU. The 6264 was a fallback I happen to have a few tubes of both 2101 and 5101(cmos). < In any case, I would decode 7 or 8 upper address bits if I went with that would make expansion easier. < a larger SRAM and allow the user to stick in there what they wanted. < One other suggestion is room for a ROM. I could wire in two or three JE < sockets and let the builder pick what to go in the, one 62256 or a coupl < of 6264's and a 27128, for example. Fair idea... However a base quest elf with a 3x5" area of plated hole on a .1 grid for protoing would be just as useful. < The problem with replicating the SuperElf is the keyboard. I have no < idea where to get that chip from (74941?), nor an inexpensive source That could be hacked with a pal/gal but then is gets hairy. < Me, too. There are a couple ways of implementing expansion, Elf-II comp < and COSMAC VIP compatible. The VIP used those ubiquitous 44-pin cards. I have the drawings, manuals and I think the rom dumps for a VIP. That used a simpler keyboard arrangement. I never had much use for it's video scheme as I wanted minimally 64x16 text as my prefered mode. < I was thinking of extras like an area for the 1861 video, or a 2"x4" < perfboard prototyping area. In any case the Quest design wouldn't < be that expensive in sufficient quantities, but at q. 25, there's < a lot of setup charges to amortize over the small run of the boards. A < least $10 each (~$250 setup / 25 boards). If anyone can direct me < to a board house that will do a 6"x9" board with ~600 holes, three or < four sizes, plated through, with minimal setup charges, I'm all ears. < Unless I get *lots* of interest, I'm only considering a run of 25, < then that's it. I don't want to have 60 or 70 unsold boards hanging < around forever. Can't help on the board house. But the 2x4" proto area is desireable. Not that I'd use it but is the 1861 even available? I don't have any of them nor 1854s. < 40 pin CPU, 2x22 pin RAM, 11 switches, 2x7 pin displays, approx 10 CMOS < DIP parts x 14 or 16 pins, a handful of diodes and resistors... let's < say about 350 point-to-point connections, probably more. I breadboarded Compared to some of the projects I was doing then that was trivial. Try 16k of 2114 (32 of them), 2 2732s, z80, ctc, sio, 765 FDC, plus interface logic all on a s100 card. < The Quest kit was the base ELF plus a ROM socket and space for primary < and secondary power supplies. One suggestion for the Elf replica was < to use a standard 4-pin Molex connector and power it from a discarded < PC power supply. The Quest Elf kit just had two solder pads for 6.3V A < or +5V DC. I ran mine from my VIP regulated +5v supply. I used a stack of AA cells (6 of them and used the regulator), then would run a long time and was portable. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? If this is the original NEC Multisync it will do anything from MDA to SVGA 800 X 600. The connector is a 9 pin MDA/CGA/EGA type but there is a digital/analogue switch that will allow VGA and SVGA if set that way. To use as a VGA you need an adaptor cable known as a "Multisync" cable which is 9 pin F to 15 pin F. Readily available and about $5 around here. I used to keep a bunch of different monitors around until I found what these can do. Another benefit is that they are usually very cheap because most people think they are only EGA.

27 years, 7 months

1
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Altair Speculation

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

>From: "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> >Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - >I did a lot of eBay transactions within the last year >(>20) and have still a feedback of Zero - I don't care. You are right in your assertion that feedback for someone who is a bidder makes little difference. However, for a seller (like myself) it is extremely important. For example, I just had two auctions end tonight in which my bids for both of the items were about double that of what is usually realized on ebay for the same identical items. This happened because I have a perfect feedback profile and that alone results in higher bids. I have seen it time and again. My advice to anyone who wishes to sell repeatedly on eBay is to do whatever it takes to protect your feedback profile. In my case, it means a policy of satisfaction or money refunded (and I have rarely been asked to grant a refund). Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

1
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Thrift store finds

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- You wrote: Found a nice Macintosh SE computer at my local Goodwill today... Anyone know anything about the SE series ? Speed, processors, memory ? Phil... --- end of quote --- Motorola 68000, 8MHz, expandable to 4MB, came with either two floppy drives or one floppy and one internal hard disk (80MB I think), and at some point there was an FDHD (Floppy Drive High Density) upgrade available -- SE's that have had the upgrade and new front case will say "Superdrive" on the front. Upgraded power supply -- not the same as the analog board in the similarly-shaped Mac 128/512/Plus. One expansion slot (I don't know what kind, but it allowed for a video card so you could drive a second display, and a commonly-found configuration is an SE driving a giant grayscale two-page display). Introduced in March 1987 and discontinued in October 1990. The SE/30, the only other one in the SE series, had a 68030 running at 16MHz, was expandable to 128MB of RAM, had a math coprocessor, and faster bus speeds. -- MB

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< but it was a particularly twisted architecture that only a TRW satellit < programmer could love. An aside to all this... The 1802 was a very strange chip. It was by far the crudest and yet the easiest to program all at once. My pet peve is there are holes in the instruction set where a reciprocal instruction would have been nice but wasn't there. It redeeming feature was it was CMOS and the only other CMOS part at that time was the 6100 (PDP-8). What surprized me is that the 1802 (maybe the 05 too?) are still available. The 05 is desireable as it has the hard coded SCRT instuction (more like a procedure!). Allison

27 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

There are several Amiga monitors that do TTL+analog with VGA capability, but they require a cable adapter. I seem to recall that the Multisync may actually sync to 15kHz (NTSC). Can anyone say yea/nea on this? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 3:25 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: NEC Multisync I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

2
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CLASSICCMP endangered?

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 10 November 1998 13:22 Subject: CLASSICCMP endangered? >To summarize, it looks like we may need a new host! > >-=-=- <snip> -=-=- > >>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:09:13 -0800 (PST) >>From: Rebekah Skiver <bskiver(a)cac.washington.edu> >>To: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> >>Subject: Re: What the...? >> >>Bruce, >> >>The reason the list is closed is because there is essentially no owner. >>The previous owner has left the University of Washington and we are >>in the process of finding a new owner. >>At this time we do not know if the list will be continued or deleted. >So, there you have it. Was anyone else aware of this? News to me, only joined a couple weeks ago. If no-one in the US can do it, and washington.edu don't want to continue, I can host it from here. MX on our VMS box has pretty good mailing list support. Probably be better if a US host could be found though, since most of the traffic is from there. cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 7 months

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PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lis

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:29:33 +0000 (GMT) How does a light pen work? > >> >> Not to change the subject but has anybody ever seen the light pen for >> the PCJr? I've read in the PCJr literature that it was supposed to be >> available but haven't known of anybody having seen or used one. > >Well, there's a light pen port on the back, but I have no other real info on >it. I could find out the pinout if anyone wants to try building one. > >Mind you, there's a light pen connector on the original CGA card. And a >similar one on the MDA card with the right signals. The latter, however, >is known not to work with the 5151 monitor as said CRT has too long a >persistance. > >Again I can find pinouts/signal details. > >I seem to recall there being a circuit for a Tandy 1000 lightpen in >80-micro in about 1986. I suspect that would work with all the above systems. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:51:05 -0600 (CST) Yes, but the iMac isn't an incremental improvement. It is in no way different from the other G3s, except for various annyances (built in monitor, no floppy drive, no SCSI), and USB (I don't like it). I wouldn't say the iMac:Mac::Mac:Lisa, but iMac:Mac::Platinum Mac:Beige Mac. It's an item people want because it looks cool, indeed precisely what Stevie was thinking. And, it's not even translucent! It has a metal case inside the plastic one! In fact, if the list is arond in 10 years, how about the person that's right buys the other an iMac? >> iMac came out. All of the detail to which you refer will be forgotten >> in 15 years. By historic, I mean of the magnitude of the original >> macintosh, or the PC XT, or Apple II, or Altair, or C64, and others. >> These truly changed the face of computing, unlike the iMac. > >Puuhlease! (Is Roger Rabbit still around?) > >What was historic about the Mac? It was a cheaper, better Lisa. A mere >evolutionary improvement over another Apple product (which was just the >commercializtion of one of PARC's concepts). > >The Apple ][ was just an incremental improvement over the Apple 1. > >The Altair was a small incremental improvement over the Mark-8, Scelbi, >etc. > >The C64 was cheap. And the PC (not the PC-XT) was just IBM's badge on a >dull box. > >This should teach you two things: don't underestimate small incremental >improvements and/or "panache", and don't be a revolutionary (nobody will >remember you). > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by dogas＠leading.net

Ethan. Please sign me up for one. Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net It may be interesting to deliver this in a some-assembly-required fashion similar to the kits of past.... They're are new generations of people that missed that era of soder-blazing joy.

27 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync

by dburrows＠netpath.net

15.5kHz to 35 kHz automatically 56 to 62 Hz vertical manually, non-interlace Compatible with IBM Professional Graphics Adapter,EGA, CGA and other IBM compatible graphics adapters. Max Horiz. 800 dots and Max Vert 560 lines. TTL and Analog inputs. Analog mode has an unlimited palette of colors. Text switch selects choice of 7 colors of text. 14 inch diagonal with 13 inch viewing area. I tried to summarize for simplicity and time. Let me know if you need more. I used the one I had for many years and it was very reliable. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 7:49 PM Subject: Re: NEC Multisync Yes, what modes does the manual say it can do? > >It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the >docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in >particular you want to know about it. >Dan Burrows >dburrows(a)netpath.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM >Subject: NEC Multisync > > >I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

1
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HP desktop 125

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

27 years, 7 months

1
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Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 9, 11:36, Grant Mitchell wrote: > Subject: Re: Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts > > A friend at a placed I used to work showed me a postscript file > he had downloaded from somewhere for printing your own > optical mouse mats for a Sun (his had a bad scratch accross > it). As a temporary stopgap it _might_ work (need a colour printer > though!). No you don't -- just a print that is red/IR-absorbent (the two LEDs in optical mice are IR and red). We've used laser-printed sheets as an expediency measure a few times. There's no fancy pattern, either, it's just horizontal and vertical lines in a regular grid. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 7 months

2
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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by KFergason＠aol.com

I would be interested in the boards. The Elf 2 got me interested in computing, even though I never had one. I devoured that 1978 edition of Popular Electronics projects. It finally fell apart, but I think I still have some of the pieces of it. Kelly

27 years, 7 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by franke＠sbs.de

> I have been in discussion with some folks about 1802's and the possibility > of producing a modern PCB for the Popular Electronicss Elf design. Hans > Franke seems to think that there would be some interest in Germany for > a few units, enough to make me consider burning a board. I realy would like to play with such a beast :) > I would be > curious to hear what other list members though about price, features, etc. > The good news is that Harris still makes the 1802 for less than $10, and > the TIL311 displays that the Elf calls for are available for less than $10 > each, used. > How authentic should a modern Elf be? Try to use 1822/2101 RAM or use > cheaper 6264 SRAM chips? Add space for an optional 1861 video chip, > a-la the fourth part of the orginal Elf article? Add space for a 1854 > UART? Add an I/O port? Add nothing to the Quest PCB layout? Remove > nothing? (There was a socket for a 16-pin PROM and room for onboard 7805 > regulator as well as optional memory battery backup). To add my opinion, I would just go for the minimal design, with spare for all parts, maybe with a spare for the video, althroug I think this one is no longer available, and we would need more than just the chip. Futher I would add a two sockets for two to 32 K RAM/EPROM and some logic to mirror the EPROM to address 0 after reset (selectable per switch). Eventualy also spares for additional 1852s. > Another question, perhaps more on topic - would this count as a classic? > It could be authentic as far as operation is concerned (toggle switches > and 256 bytes of accessible RAM), but it would still be on a modern > board, made recently. In short, does form or function denote "classic"? It's not a classic, but rather a replica. And in difference of Mercedes SSK look alikes on FORD or GM chasis the main parts (CPU, RAM, Display) would be genuine. Servus hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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Light pen?? (sort of on/sort of off-topic)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I have an old Tandy 1000 (no suffix) that has a port on the back that looks like a serial port, but is plastic, and says "light pen" (I know it's not a serial port). I also have a lightpen/barcode scanner thing (like the kind they use in RadioShack on the cash registers). Will this work with the Tandy? If it won't: Is there any type of barcode reader software that I can download somewhere? (this is the off-topic part) It does not have to run on the Tandy. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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NEC Multisync

by dburrows＠netpath.net

It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in particular you want to know about it. Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM Subject: NEC Multisync I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

3
2
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Docs posted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's today's postings to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ - data sheet: 6545-1 CRTC - R6500 Programming Manual, part 1 Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

1
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NEC Multisync

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Yes, what modes does the manual say it can do? > >It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the >docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in >particular you want to know about it. >Dan Burrows >dburrows(a)netpath.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM >Subject: NEC Multisync > > >I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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NEC Multisync

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> I seem to recall that the Multisync may actually sync to 15kHz (NTSC). > Can > anyone say yea/nea on this? Older ones do. I know the 2D does, for instance -- I have used one on an Apple //gs with a hacked-up adapter. However, I don't think modern ones, 4- and 5- series, will sync down that far. > Kai Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 7 months

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PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lis

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Not to change the subject but has anybody ever seen the light pen for the PCJr? I've read in the PCJr literature that it was supposed to be available but haven't known of anybody having seen or used one. Thanks, Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lisa an Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/9/98 4:51 PM > Anyone looking for a color display for a PCjr before it goes on ebay? I've posted > it before for the $35 I bought it for but either everyone has one, no one needs > one, or they think it's $34 too much for them <G> Perhaps you'd like to trade the monitor without PCJr for a PCJr without monitor? -- Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov09.165152.1767.76489; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:51:52 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA18454; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:26 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA12276 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:21 -0800 Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark-fas1.lanminds.com [208.25.68.5]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA25 408 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:20 -0800 Received: from lana (lana [140.174.208.211]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA06004 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.981109134602.3483C-100000@lana> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lisa and App In-Reply-To: <363B93B9.2231901B(a)bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: cisin@lana X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

That's true here as well. This iMac-flavored superdrive may end up being a nice collector's item. Of course, since the iMac has little historical significance, I doubt it will be remembered any better than many other machines. It seems hard for me to imagine the iMac or any other technologically vanilla modern computer will ever end up in a museum. Then again, I probably haven't lived long enough :) >Apple (or to be correct all Apple dealers) in Germany are >ofering th iMac in some kind of bundle with a Superdrive >external USB disk drive, able to read/reite 1.44M and 120M >disks. I don't think there will ever be an included floppy, >maybe a CD-RW or similar, but no floppy. > >Gruss >hasn > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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NEC Multisync

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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Board identification & Console panel

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Just got a number of HP and Dec boards in and a console panel >of a DECDATASYSTEM 570, missing the key and one turnknob The key is an ACE XX2247, just like all the other DEC consoles of the era, and any quarter-inch setscrew-type knob will replace the missing one. >(what's this machine anyway???) The "DECDATASYSTEM 570" is a PDP-11/70 packaged in a dual-wide highboy cabinet, blue trim. >Unfortunately the frame to mount it in a rack is missing. Anybody >have a spare one left over? The "frame to mount it in a rack" is the 11/70 CPU chassis, weighing a few hundred pounds without the power supply :-). >There were also 2 boards I cannot place, one is an L0016 board, 64K Memory control for a VAX 11/750. >the other one is marked 'Unibus Serial Console'. Does it have a M-number on the handle? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 7 months

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XPOST: Adoptables and fairly cheapo machines available - NC

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

This is a new post on the Obsolete Computer Helpline that I thought someone may have an interest in. Write to Mike Smith, not me, on these items. ------------------------------ Michael M. Smith <snuggemsnospam(a)nospam.bearwolf.com> Cary, NC USA - Tuesday, November 10, 1998 at 10:44:04 (Remove the nospams when you reply) It's time to clean house. I have numerous machines that need to find homes, for reasonable prices. How reasonable? Make an offer. Not interested in making any money off these, as most were given to me or purchased for a small fee that I've gotten my money's worth out of >from tinkering. 1. A TI-99/4A computer with speech synth, power adapter, RF adapter, cassette program recorder with cables, many software packages with most in original boxes (The software, not the machine) Its the black and chrome model, and everything works perfectly. Oh, and it has the joysticks with it too. Not sure how well they work. 2. Kaypro 1 luggable. Powers up and tries to boot, but no system disk available. See TRS-80 entry, its disks might work. 3. Kaypro 4 luggable. Same as above. 4. Atari 5200 game system. Trackball controller, Atari 2600 adapter, three 5200 joysticks, one 2600-compatible joystick, several cartridges. Trackball and joysticks could use some cleaning, can't get them all to work right. 5. TRS-80 Model 4. Manuals, disks, extra programming books, even a copy of Zaxxon...Looks awful in b&w though. The B drive is a little flaky, might need cleaning, might need more. It has TRS-DOS and CP/M 2.2 so these disks might work with the Kaypros mentioned above. 6. Atari 800XL with two 1050 disk drives, the 410 tape recorder, and a "Big Blue" thermal roll printer. Several manuals and disks and cartridges. Not in the best of shape, is quite dirty. One of the 1050 drives is in its original packaging. Not sure if this works. Interested adopters need to be in the RTP area of North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel-Hill) as I am not willing to ship these items. Any questions regarding specific cartridges may be addressed to me. Thanks, and help me get rid of this clutter! Some really interesting items for a computer museum. I also have an IBM PS/2 model 35sx with 16MB of RAM and a 420MB IDE hard drive (It's an IDE and ISA model) that I might let out for adoption too, but will have to ask $30 to recoup the cost of the RAM and the harddrive I put in it. Thanks again! Mike

27 years, 7 months

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FA: Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

at the risk of being a smartass, id think that some of the people here would've appreciated an offer on this list first rather than going to ebay and then announcing it to us all.. that would have been an even better opportunity. In a message dated 11/1/98 4:23:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gmast(a)polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu writes: > I think this system will go for a good price. It will sell regardless. > If this post offends anyone, I apologize but I know some people here > might want one of these for their collection and this might be a good > opportunity.

27 years, 7 months

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Another resource for older systems

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I stumbled on this site a while back and a few on the list may be interested. Postings of want to buy and sell of "classic" type systems. I have not had any response from the post I put there several months back - Looking for DEC equipment but others may have better luck. http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/guest.htm Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net

27 years, 7 months

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Board identification & Console panel

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hello All, Just got a number of HP and Dec boards in and a console panel of a DECDATASYSTEM 570, missing the key and one turnknob (what's this machine anyway???) Unfortunately the frame to mount it in a rack is missing. Anybody have a spare one left over? There were also 2 boards I cannot place, one is an L0016 board, the other one is marked 'Unibus Serial Console'. Does this card belong to the console panel mentioned earlier? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 7 months

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Collectable PCs

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/9/98 8:37:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, Marty(a)itgonline.com writes: << Does your Columbia list it as having been made in Columbia, Maryland? I believe their early pc's were made in Columbia, Maryland, later they moved to Florida. >> I will look. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. i will let you know when I find out. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Curious what the copyright situation on BASIC (or related >> products) is? Certainly Gate's hasn't released it into >> public domain. >No, and he got pretty upset about people redistributing it without >authorization. But that was a few years ago; maybe he's mellowed out >by now. :-) It may depend on whether he thinks he's out of his "Bitter financial suffering" phase or not. To quote Calvin N. Moores, BYTE 1976:13 p.22.: Bill Gates, in his "Open Letter to Hobbyists" mentioned earlier, tells of his sad experience. According to Bill, he and two associates produced the Altair BASIC, investing three man years and burning up $40,000 in computer time. It was to be sold on commision through MITS for use with Altair computers. Gates now finds that many of the "users" he talks to praise his BASIC very highly, but few of them can admit they bought the copy they use. He is bitter, and says that the return for his group was less than $2 an hour for the great amount of time they put into the programming, debugging, and documentation required to make a first class package. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 7 months

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Deja Vu Again (was Re: Hayes S100 modem

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Anybody care to hazard guesses at what products are actually being >> manufactured now, that you'd want to have in your classic computer >> collection ten years from now? > Manufactured now? It's not like each year produces collectibles, but here > are some current and recent collectibles that you'll wish you had bought: > 4) clear pilot Huh ? never heared of. Gruss Hans (And add the REX) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

> >> Of course few people exploit teletext to its full. It's sent as ASCII >> data (with in-line attribute characters for setting colours, etc) in the >> vertical blanking interval. This means that it's possible to connect a >> teletext decoder chip up to a computer, store/analyse/print the info, >> etc. But few people have tried that. There was a teletext decoder box for >> the BBC micro (to tie in the start of this thread), and there were even >> plans to distribute BASIC programs for that machine on some teletext pages. Hmm, I have the teletext decoder for the BBC somewhere, but no software to run it. I expect it's in working order (the ROMs were missing when I got it, but I managed to create copies from another box). Interestingly, we used to get teletext sent over the same network that connected all the computer equipment when I was at university - instead of logging in to the computer network you could use a standard comms program / terminal emulator to connect to the teletext system. It got turned off though whilst I was there - I heard a rumour that it was a commercial service for which the university were supposed to pay, but they had been using it for years before they found out! :) >> To keep this on the topic of the thread, I *am* interested in getting a >>BBC. >> I guess I'd need a PAL monitor and a 220-volt, 50-hz power supply to run it I used to know someone with a US spec BBC; I seem to remember that the power supply was different (the whole layout was slightly different inside) but would switch to UK mains rates. I also think that there was a jumper (or more than one) on the system board that would at least change scan rates for the video connectors, but not the modulator. My memory's really fuzzy on this one, I could probably contact the guy who had the machine if you really need it, but BBC's were *very* flexible in what they could do and what could be modified easily. I missed the original post, but if it was a UK reader and they just wanted a BBC machine then they'd be better off contacting a few local schools, who are bound to have a few lurking around unused in cupboards. cheers Jules >

27 years, 7 months

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OT: General power supply question

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Time for an Electronics for Dummies question... If I have a center negative power supply (the diagram shows that the negative is in the center of the connector) does that mean the center of the connector on the device to be powered should be connected to the ground plane? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 7 months

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apple software

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

Dose anyone know where I can find Apple IIe software on the web?

27 years, 7 months

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Collectibles for the future

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I couldn't get a Lisa for under $2000 They're going for that much now? I remember a few years back when Sun Remarketing was selling them for a few hundred dollars... > but I could find a D-machine for less than a tenth >of that. >Fortunately, I don't care about machines being 'collectable'. I just like >interesting machines to repair and investigate. Despite the worries that many people here have of all interesting computers getting priced into the stratosphere, I think there will always be interesting and historically significant computers that will be within easy [financial] reach (or a dumpster dive.) Tim.

27 years, 7 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new >>> people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the >> Apple used that trick before. It was called the Macintosh. > I think the parallel is with the Lisa. The Lisa had expansion slots. > iMac owners will bitch about the > lack of floppy, so Apple will make an iMac 2 with built-in floppy drive > and offer a free upgrade to existing iMac owners... and a new collectible > is born. Apple (or to be correct all Apple dealers) in Germany are ofering th iMac in some kind of bundle with a Superdrive external USB disk drive, able to read/reite 1.44M and 120M disks. I don't think there will ever be an included floppy, maybe a CD-RW or similar, but no floppy. Gruss hasn -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectables

by franke＠sbs.de

> Good day all, I have been following this thread and would like to add > another item from the late 70's. Have any of you heard of the Digital Group > computers? I have a few examples of this line which was developed as a true > hobbyst machine. I know its shortcommings just like many of the other early > machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories about this machine. > Bill Risch PLEASE do so - I just aquired a Digital Group Z80 at VCF this year (still many thanks, Chuck) and I'm eager to get more information. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Altair Speculation

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The latest victim paid $4060 for a mere "turnkey" (no blinkenlights): >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39333791 > If you take a look at the bidding, you will see only four people bid on it, > with two of them having zero feedback ratings. Sounds like the best > advertising strategy for ebay is to simply say something is *very* rare. Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - I did a lot of eBay transactions within the last year (>20) and have still a feedback of Zero - I don't care. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectables

by franke＠sbs.de

> Any collector will tell you that a lot depends on rareity. An item produced in > the millions is less valuable than one produced in the thousands. Prototypes > of popular machines will be very valuable. Machines that bombed in the market > will be valuable. Accessories and documentation that disapears readilly will > be valuable. Just depending. Even #1 all time sales items can be more valuabel than a lot rarer and more interesting speciemen of the same time - just think about the VW (Beatle), a car built in more units than almost any other car in the world, build over a timeline longer than most oter car (especialy longer than all other mass market car) but he outclasses all compareable cars when it comes to the $$$ peaople are ready to pay to get one. A bit like the APPLE II - maybe in 10 years they will be like a Kaefer. Or take the Altair a computer clearly never realy too be considered rare but the prices just outrun any other old computer (only the Apple 1 will perform higher, but it is also a lot more rare). > Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new people into > the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the thought of > unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work is very attractive > to new computer users. The only new thing is a brute marketing. No new idea at all. Wasn't the Mac itself the same thing ? And unpack'n'go is not new at all. Even in the x86-PC world a lot of ready to use machines are available. Nobody is willing to try something real new (Or do I just see it to pesimistic?). (OT: I guess the usual iMac owner would also like to drive a new beatle :) > How many computers of today will survive when crashes > become totally unacceptable. iMac still crashes like any other Mac ... > It will be 20 years though, before it gains value > as a collectable. Any limited edition iMac that Apple may make will be > collectable. This is going to be the first computer for millions of people. Possible - but still the PC is leading also here. For every new iMac first time computer user a dozend of PC ones grew up. I just remember having heard all this once upon a past timeline... Gruss H. (OT2: I belive Apple had the strange luck to define three times a new world: - the Apple II as a modular expandable all in one Computer, - the Mac as ready to use consumer GUI system, - and the Newton as first usable and real 'pad' orientated pen device. And they did screw it up all tree times. - killed the II with every way they could - avoided at any cost placing the Mac als general consumer product - and stoped the Newton just when it was finaly ready to use. eventualy this will make all Apple products it on topic again) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was:

by Marty＠itgonline.com

When customers used to ask me to explain the difference between a SX and DX processor, I'd give the standard spiel (386SX is basically a souped up 286 with same data path using 32 bit addressing, 486SX is a coprocessor neutered DX) then tell them the easy way to remember is that DX stands for DELUXE, SX stands for SUCKS. Well, it works for me..... Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: 487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was: Re: Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/7/98 1:07 AM "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: > As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I > always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal > processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. No. The 487 is a *fully* functional 486DX, and it has to be, because when you plug it into a 487 socket it disables your 486SX completely and takes over. The 487 is NOT a "math coprocessor". It's a "Marketing Breakthrough" (*), or so they had hoped. The made the pinouts of the 486 and 487 slightly different, so that you couldn't take out your old 486SX and simply install the 487 in its place, which would leave you with a spare 486SX to give to a friend, i.e., less sales of new chips for Intel. Part of the reason it didn't work out in practice is that 486DX chips were generally available for less money than the expensive retail-box 487. Cheers, Eric (*) If you're not familiar with the concept of a Marketing Breakthrough, see this advertisement which appeared in newspapers nationally a few years ago: http://www.milk.com/wall-o-shame/dish.html Note that every statement in the advertisement is literally true; they even utilize italics to emphasize the fact that the product is nothing special. I didn't buy their antenna, but I offered to pay them up to $20 for a large poster of the advertisement. Unfortunately they never replied. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov07.010745.1767.76113; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:07:45 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id WAA13734; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:05:39 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id WAA44546 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:04:11 -0800 Received: from brouhaha.com (ruckus.brouhaha.com [209.185.79.17]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with SMTP id WAA283 32 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:04:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 517 invoked by uid 342); 7 Nov 1998 06:04:21 -0000 Message-Id: <19981107060421.516.qmail(a)brouhaha.com> Date: 7 Nov 1998 06:04:21 -0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: 487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)) In-Reply-To: <v0401170bb2696bd1e812(a)[192.168.1.2]> (healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com) References: <v0401170bb2696bd1e812(a)[192.168.1.2]> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

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Cauzin

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:39 AM 11/7/98 -0500, cswiger wrote: > >'Byte's early years were fun for hardware hackers - I wonder if >anybody actually got their 'barcode' software publishing scheme >to work. They had a few issues with pages of barcodes you were >supposedly able to read in with a wand. It's spelled "Cauzin". Back in 1996 I e-bumped into Dick Balaska <dick(a)buckosoft.com> <http://www.buckosoft.com/~dick/resume.html>, one of the engineers who worked at Cauzin. Below are several messages from earlier in 1998 about this topic, and a related technology. Anyone want to make a jillion dollars? Re-typing URLs is a pain. OCR is a pain and impractical for small bits of text. Reciting addresses is a pain. I think we need a pen- or credit-card-sized device that can read barcodes. While I'm reading a magazine, I see a URL I want to visit later. I scan the barcode. Later, I transmit my pen's contents to my PC, maybe via IrDA. It's scalable from give-away keychains to smarter devices, it's embeddable. Make a PostScript font with the barcode. Allow one-to- one ASCII-to-barcode, upsell software to checksum it or auto-inject barcode text in any app's documents. Make a modem-like variation that can emit a few hundred bytes of info while held to the mouthpiece of a phone, as well as receive a few hundred bytes when held to the earpiece. Presto, a way to transmit your name and address to someone else. Sell the $100 thermal-label-printer version to corporate America. - John >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> >Subject: Re: [getting old punched cards read] > >Here's another twist in the archive problem, related to our previous >discussion: <http://www.paperdisk.com/> makes software that prints >data in a highly compressed form on paper. It looks like they're >getting 2 to 4 megs of data per 8.5x11 page, printed with a laser >printer, and retrievable with a scanner. > >If tapes and CDs aren't reliable, perhaps paper is better. (Search >www.dejanews.com for "Dead Media Working Note paperdisk" to see a >longer article about this.) However, I'd say that laser-printed >output has its own archival problems related to the properties of >toner plastic, in that it can re-melt or stick to adjacent pages, >and that it's sensitive to vapors from out-gassing plastics >such as those in binders. > >Cauzin SoftStrips for the 90s and beyond! I have some friends who once >worked for a Wisconsin company that had a similar gizmo that worked with >a record-player-like device. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > Below is a description of the "paper floppy disk" as given by an old friend of mine, Dennis Adams <DAdams(a)etcconnect.com>, who once worked on this technology. - John The "Paper Floppy Disk" Newslog International (aka Lab1) developed technology for recording up to 30-50K of data on a printed piece of cardstock approximately 6" x 4". The data was recorded with error detection and correction information (Reed-Soloman, I believe), as well as redundant groups, so it could withstand misprints, marks, holes, and other flaws. This was all pre-CD, and the cost was very cheap. One of the names for them was TDB's for Transportable Databases. They were intended for software distribution, database updates, games on the back of cereal boxes, etc. Each track was a portion of a circle (about 1/10 of the circumference). The reader had a large (approx. 14") spinning wheel, and supported variable track pitch and data bits per inch (so different quality paper and printing processes could be supported), and could track media that was not cut square by skewing the tray that held the media (since there was no physical or optical "center" on the media -- it had a virtual movable "hole" to spin on). It used a Z80 microprocessor (running extremely tweaked assembly language by Al Jewer) and interfaced to a computer via "high-speed" RS-232 (9600 bps). I did demo software on a variety of hosts, including the Storm operating system (multi-user CP/M OS by Ron Fowler, also the author of the popular MEX communications software), Commodore 64, and IBM-PC XT. We had a Coleco Adam computer that we briefly considered writing something for, but it never stayed running long enough to evaluate. We did a multi-month trial of a large database update for a large company based in Moline. We sent out three months of updates to a 13M database. Each update was a half-dozen or so cards that could be scanned in any order and then the update was applied to the database. This was run at three dealerships that could retrieve up-to-date database information much faster than their microfiche system which was always out-of-date. It also displayed additional textual information that was on other microfiche or books and not usually referenced. This was circa 1985, and was quite impressive to the people who used it. So much so that the actual media technology took a back seat to the database system itself (an interesting lesson to be learned there). Newslog / Lab1 ran out of money before the technology could be completely finished and sold or marketed. Not that they didn't try. I learned a lot about "demos" and "demospeak" while I worked there. I still have some media around, but alas no reader. I'm willing to bet it could be read by a modern high-res scanner. An energetic soul could probably even write a reader emulator that fed the bits that it peeled radially from the high-res scan into the actual Z80 reader code to decode it. The best anecdote I recall regarding the technology was in the "camera" software that generated the film original used for duplication: the base unit of measurement was derived from the bits-per-track and camera wheel speed and other factors I've forgotten. All of the internal calculations were based on this "tick", which varied in actual length, but was approximately 1mS. The camera system's author was Bill Whitford, and the unit of measurement henceforth became known as a "willisecond." Bill's code ran on a much larger processor with a lot of memory (I think it might have been a 4Mhz Z80 with 64K of memory), so he development in C.

27 years, 7 months

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Collectable PCs

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Does your Columbia list it as having been made in Columbia, Maryland? I believe their early pc's were made in Columbia, Maryland, later they moved to Florida. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Collectable PCs Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/8/98 5:58 PM Earlier there was a discussion of what PC stuff might be collectable and valuable. The other day I ran across an original Columbia PC. This one is a good collectable. It was as it came from the factory with the original Floppy and Hard drive. It also had the original keyboard with it. It was very clean and had not been abused. It worked. In my 1983 Bytes they were asking $5000 for it. I paid $6 at goodwill with the intention of putting it on ebay just to see what it will bring. I am retireing from collecting but if I were going top sit on a piece of equipment this would be a good example. My reasons in order of priority: 1) first popular clone, 2) all the original -parts (including screws), 3) Clean with no scratches, the type on the keyboard showed no wear, 4) Works (not essential - i bought it without testing it - $6 is not a great gamble), 5) Rareity - Most of these go directly to scrap and have for years. However it will be many more years before it is truly valuable, but I bet it will be! Paxton ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov08.175845.1767.76263; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:58:48 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id OAA15250; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:34 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id OAA52802 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:25 -0800 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA12 625 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:24 -0800 Received: from Innfogra(a)aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id JYRTa02301 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:56:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <eee98475.36462187(a)aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:56:07 EST Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Innfogra(a)aol.com To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Collectable PCs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 7 months

1
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Amiga 2500 Manual??

by danjo＠xnet.com

Any one have a Amiga 2500 Manual? My Sis needs it. She has Workbench 1.3??? Any one know either online sources or hardcopy?? Now she is talking about AREX??? I hate the Telephone 8-) BC

27 years, 7 months

4
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OT: General power supply question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 03:44 AM 11/9/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Time for an Electronics for Dummies question... > >If I have a center negative power supply (the diagram shows that the >negative is in the center of the connector) does that mean the center of >the connector on the device to be powered should be connected to the >ground plane? > Not necessarialy. It could be grounded or it could be floating. But as long as the connector supplies power and the return path (two wires supplying + and -), you should be able too leave it disconnected from ground with no problem. Circuits are grounded for two reasons; (1) to provide a power return path through the chassis and saving the cost of a wire or (2) for safety reasons. Reason 1 is a poor practice since chassis grounds aren't very reliable and cause galvanic corrosion. Reason 2 is generally only required in high voltage (> 100 Volts) crcuits. Joe

27 years, 7 months

1
0
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Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts

by grant＠anachronism.sol.co.uk

A friend at a placed I used to work showed me a postscript file he had downloaded from somewhere for printing your own optical mouse mats for a Sun (his had a bad scratch accross it). As a temporary stopgap it _might_ work (need a colour printer though!). Dunno where he downloaded from though, but contact your friendly neighbourhood seaqrch engine!

27 years, 7 months

2
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Altair Speculation

by franke＠sbs.de

>> It looks like a bunch of Altairs are coming on the market to feed the >> recent speculator frenzy. A couple of New Mexicans are dumping their >> Altairs. It looks like one was a Pertec employee, and the other is a >> surplus dealer who bought out a bunch of Altair stuff in 1984. >> The latest victim paid $4060 for a mere "turnkey" (no blinkenlights): >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39333791 USD 4600 ? Geee - you're all crazy Americanos. > I especially like how he gives the TRS-80 all the credit for destroying > the Altair. Someone take the blinders off this guy. Maybe around his frieds the TRS realy took over - just remember how narrow some peoples view is. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

1
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apple //c

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

anybody want one? complete, but no power supply and not tested. $5 or something around that.

27 years, 7 months

2
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VERY OT REQUEST: Need to know power supply specs for Acer Prisa 310S scanner

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I need to know what the specs are for an Acer Prisa 310S scanner power supply. I know its 15VDC at 1A, but is it center negative or positive? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 7 months

1
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SCSI questions

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> 1) Is the SCSI drive (a 170 MB Toshiba) toast? Can it be fixed? It *should* be OK; but it does depend on the drive. I've accidentally connected stuff up backwards once and no harm came of it. > >> 3) There's no separate SCSI setting under "drive type". Should I use "no >> drive", or set the parameters to something? I don't know about integrated controllers - depends on whether the controller has a BIOS to it or whether it's just dumb. Sounds like you've got a standard AT BIOS that supports IDE drives, in which case the SCSI controller's either completely dumb and you have to boot from an IDE drive, or (as with standard SCSI controllers) there's a seperate SCSI BIOS which needs some key-combination entered (such as CTRL-A on Adaptec cards) on boot up in order get into it and set up your SCSI devices. If you know who made the motherboard, you may be able to find info on the web somewhere... cheers Jules > >

27 years, 7 months

1
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Acorn BBC Micros

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Due a smaler coulour band signal. The slow colour change >> is a real pain for movies but the 50 vs 60 Hz isn't >> visible, althrugh when used with computers, both are >> just bad. > I definitely notice the 50Hz vs 60Hz difference on my computer. It is visible when using a still picture like a computer output. 60 Hz gives a more stable view, but on the other hand, the poor NTSC coulour signal just damages the view again, so again the result is bas - taking this and the lower resolution (less horizontal and vertical lines in NTSC) I'll prefer the flicker. THe best was still using PAL with 60 Hz - some homecomputers of the 80s could be programmed for that - less flicker and high resolution and biliant (or at least as briliant as a narow band colour signal can be) colours. > I might > not notice it with a TV signal, though - I've never watched PAL > television. (But I've watched 50Hz 'EuroDemos' on the TV.) EuroDemos ? Whats that ? >> This might not be true for the low price TV sets, but >> any TV I (or friends of mine) had within the last >> 10 years could syncronize 60 Hz b&w and all (but one >> tested in 1984) could also display NTSC signals. > Our current television (JVC model no. AV-27965, manufactured in 1995) will > definitely _not_ synch to 50Hz. This annoyed me. All of our old > tube-based monstrosities are perfectly happy with 50Hz. > But north American televisions are primitive relative to European ones. I > would _really_ like it if they'd put SCART connectors on the sets over > here! The funny thing is that Japaneese companies have also stron sales in Europe - and use the same designs in Europe and the US ... But as always, they add only as many features as the 'local' companies offer. Gruss Hans I used an SONY TV for the ATARI ST, 10 years ago. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectables

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/8/98 3:45:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: << When desktops disappear, and only notebooks survive, then the first laptops will be very collectible. If pen-based computing continues to gain ground, then the first pen-based machines will be nice to have. If wireless communications becomes commonplace.... If voice recognition replaces the keyboard.... There are lots of future collectibles out there. >> Doug is right. Look for the first developers of an idea. Limited production runs of a popular item. Any collector will tell you that a lot depends on rareity. An item produced in the millions is less valuable than one produced in the thousands. Prototypes of popular machines will be very valuable. Machines that bombed in the market will be valuable. Accessories and documentation that disapears readilly will be valuable. Hm, how about masks of 386, 486, 586 chips.... from the manufacture process. Very rare and often beautiful. Most companies desroy them. Test runs of a product that didn't make it to market (anyone remember the Biin machine. I doubt there is a single example of that one left.) The Gold plated Cyrix Chips. Most will go to scrap for the gold content. Beauty has little value untill much later. Add art and design to your collectors criteria. Some of the speciallized gear to make systems work. Ethernet repeaters, thick cable, some of the first fiber optic gear, routersand other peripherals. Anything that helps popularize or develop new concepts and revolutionary equipment changes. Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the thought of unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work is very attractive to new computer users. How many computers of today will survive when crashes become totally unacceptable. It will be 20 years though, before it gains value as a collectable. Any limited edition iMac that Apple may make will be collectable. This is going to be the first computer for millions of people. Follow important people in the field. Many of the computers Steven Jobs had a hand in are collectable. I bet there will be more. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

6
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PCjr with no disk drive?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:42 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> As far as I know it was in the ROM on the motherboard. > >If you turn the machine on with no disk in the drive and no cartridge in >either slot, you get ROM BASIC. > >There is also a more advanced BASIC on a cartridge. If you turn the >machine on with the BASIC cartridge in a slot, you get cartridge BASIC. > >This is not a guess. This is how my PCjr behaves. That's my understanding. There are three levels of BASIC for the Jr. Level 1 is the ROM BASIC, level 2 is the disk BASIC and level 3 is the cartridge BASIC. I was surprised that the cartridge BASIC was the most complete but that's what the manual says. Joe

27 years, 7 months

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PCjr with no disk drive?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:08 AM 10/29/98 -0800, Sam said: >The PCjr had BASIC in ROM and didn't require a floppy to boot. Was the BASIC in a plug in cartridge and optional? Joe

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectables - Mac, iMac & Atari comments

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/8/98 3:06:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes: << > Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new > people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the > thought of unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work > is very attractive to new computer users. Apple used that trick before. It was called the Macintosh. >> True, the Macintosh was a revolutionary concept and the 128K original is now a collectable. Many people bought Macs as their first computer. This generates popularity, time generates nostalgia. E-mail is pushing many computerphobic people into needing to use a computer. This is a new step in the revolution which is going to bring a great majority of people into the computer revolution. Apple & Jobs recognized the movement and, yes, used the trick again. This is generating huge sales for Apple and in 20 years down the road, nostalgia. Lets look at a simplistic history of the Mac collectables. The hottest of the predicessors is the Xerox Alto followed by the Xerox Stars the 8010 (limited production, very collectable) and 6085 (pretty, beginning to be a collectable). All of the Lisas are collectable as are any parts, documentation and software. The 128K original Mac is collectable as are parts, documentation, software and the original boxes. I suspect that early 512K Macs are growing in collectability. Right now Mac+s are a glut on the market. Early serial numbers, originals and limited editions will be valuable in the future. The production runs on the Mac + were huge. Untill the glut disappears prices will be depressed. Now is the time to buy parts machines. I doubt the Mac+ will ever be a great collectable, there are just too many of them. Many people will want one for nostalgia reasons only. Maybe in 50 years or so they will be valuable. I don't know the later Macs. Some I am sure are and will be collectables. The iMac will be a collectable because many will use it as their first computer. Most will move on to newer machines. Some of the originals wioll go ionto the closet when people upgrade. Most will go to the used market. When a new generation of power (64 bit machines) becomes availiable most imacs will go to scrap. This will be the bottom of the market. This will be the best time for the true collectors to buy parts, however most won't recognize it. As they become scarce they become collectable and prices rise. At this time most documentation and software is hard to find. Original boxes nonexistant. The machines that are buried in the closet start showing up on the collectors market. Top prices are obtained by having the origional boxes, documentation and software. Collectors pay a premium for this. This was exhibited in the record sale price of the recent Atari 1200XL on e-bay. This unit was the only totally complete system I have seen on ebay. Original boxes! If you look at the completed sales of Ataris most sales of 1200XLs are in the $30 to $100 range for complete systems without documentation, SW and boxes. Paxton

27 years, 7 months

2
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Fw: Some DEC stuff forsale (Cheap)

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

Following posted in comp.sys.dec. If any Vax collectors are interested. Be a shame to see it as razor blades or landfill. It's times like this I wish Australia was a bit closer to the USA. -----Original Message----- From: kshuff <kshuff(a)fast.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Date: Saturday, 7 November 1998 5:56 Subject: Some DEC stuff forsale (Cheap) > Cleaning out the basement for some much needed space and have some DEC stuff >I would like to get rid of, rather than the garbage man getting it. > > The following items are all in working order and the prices I've listed are >what I'd like to see, but I'm flexible and would welcome offers. Shipping is >extra... > > DEC VR290-DA 19" RGB color monitor asking $100 OBO > > VT1200 Mono X-term base, 4 meg ram asking $30 OBO > > HP 7475A Plotter, brand new color pens asking $45 OBO > > DataProducts SPG8050 Wide carridge color DMP asking $40 OBO > > (4) RA-72 1Gb 5 1/4" SDI drives asking $30 each OBO > > (1) SA-7x drive enclosure for above drives asking $20 OBO > > MicroVAX I, BA23, RX50, RD52, Ultrix v1.2 loaded asking $40 OBO > > TU-80 9-track tape drive, bare unit, no cabinet asking Best Offer > >All items located in Allentown, Pa > > > Keith S. Huff > > kshuff(a)fast.net > --------------- > > "One World, One Web, One Program"- Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"- Adolf Hitler > > >

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectibles

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> >> Didn't that happen a while back with the first NeXT cubes? Previous >> situation where common sense by engineering was overruled by >> marketing to make things pretty rather than really practical. Another machine associated with Jobbs and overruled by marketing.... What are the odds? - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 7 months

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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Yes things were moving fast even then. > >This was late in the game. > >The Altair when first available had 4 cards for IO, the SIO-A (single >serial), 2SIO (2 6850 serial ports), PIO(parallel) and the infamous ACR. The Digital Group developed boards that were the equivalent. >At the time of the demo the ACR was available with usable software. Why >they chose TTY loading to this date is speculation. Keep in mind this was a group of sales types and maybe they didn't have everything with them. > >What Sudding did do was to make the 300baud (30CPS) ACR and the 300baud >(also 30cps) Kansas City standard look slow by pushing to 1500baud >so that loading at 150cps was doable. However the Sudding standard >never caught on as it was not tolerent of some problems (tape speed). >The Tarbell standard would give a higher data rate and was self clocking. > >So went the audio casette hardware wars. When it was reaching it's peak >most of us were looking at either real tape (saturation with block >replaceability), disks or disk like systems. Yes there was no question that disks were the way to go. > > >Allison > > >

27 years, 7 months

1
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Future Collectibles

by dogas＠leading.net

With the take off of digital cameras I would like to add the Canon Xapshot to this list...

27 years, 7 months

2
1
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Future Collectables

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< His name was Robert Suding. I have not talked to him for a long time. < left Colorado over 20 years ago. Robert lives out in western Colorado n < I do not know if he is doing any design work of any kind. This was late in the game. The Altair when first available had 4 cards for IO, the SIO-A (single serial), 2SIO (2 6850 serial ports), PIO(parallel) and the infamous ACR. At the time of the demo the ACR was available with usable software. Why they chose TTY loading to this date is speculation. What Sudding did do was to make the 300baud (30CPS) ACR and the 300baud (also 30cps) Kansas City standard look slow by pushing to 1500baud so that loading at 150cps was doable. However the Sudding standard never caught on as it was not tolerent of some problems (tape speed). The Tarbell standard would give a higher data rate and was self clocking. So went the audio casette hardware wars. When it was reaching it's peak most of us were looking at either real tape (saturation with block replaceability), disks or disk like systems. Allison

27 years, 7 months

1
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Collectibles for the future

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:50:22 -0800 Come to think of it, their photo-drive is rather weird! Actually, many of the latest machines are constructed quite originally, unlike ones a few years ago. >> >> On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Marvin wrote: >> >> > Probably anything manufactured by HP will be collectable, >> >> Why do you say that? What has HP made in the last, say, five years that > >We are not talking about our particular biases right now, but rather how >things will be perceived in the future. I don't recall anyone thinking that >the IBM stuff would be collectable in the early 80's either. Perceptions >change :). > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

1
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Hayes S100 modem

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:27:04 -0800 (PST) As well as portables/laptops, the Corel Netwinder, various NCs, WebTV, kids' computers by vTech, the BeBox, and more. > >> Anybody care to hazard guesses at what products are actually being >> manufactured now, that you'd want to have in your classic computer >> collection ten years from now? > >Digital cameras, scanners, digital video cameras, photo printers, USB >devices, interesting video capture/TV cards, those nifty all-in-one >scanner/fax/printer/copier units, SyQuest drives (they be gone), Zip >drives... It seems the peripherals are the only innovations being made >these days in the PC world. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

1
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

His name was Robert Suding. I have not talked to him for a long time. I left Colorado over 20 years ago. Robert lives out in western Colorado now. I do not know if he is doing any design work of any kind. From the >> back of the room my friend (the designer of the first digital group >> computer) said he would like to make a brief demo. > >Who was this guy (what is his name), and is he still around? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > > >

27 years, 7 months

1
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Ok you asked for it <grin> The Altair sales team was invited to give a demo of the then new 8800. They all showed up complete with a model 33 tty machine which was to read the paper tape for loading the Altair. The paper tape was loaded and the tty clanked along for about 4 to 5 minutes and finally stopped with the altair system loaded. They gave their dog and pony show and then asked for comments. From the back of the room my friend (the designer of the first digital group computer) said he would like to make a brief demo. He carried his equipment up front (under one arm ) and placed it on the table. The digital group system was loaded by means of an audio tape recorder. The loading time aprox 10 seconds. The computer then was able to run all of the basic routines written at that time. Well, the Altair guys were a bit unhappy. I know its shortcommings just like many of >> the other early machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories >> about this machine. > >Please do. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com

27 years, 7 months

2
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Good day all, I have been following this thread and would like to add another item from the late 70's. Have any of you heard of the Digital Group computers? I have a few examples of this line which was developed as a true hobbyst machine. I know its shortcommings just like many of the other early machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories about this machine. Bill Risch

27 years, 7 months

2
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Computer in Wyatt's room in "Weird Science"

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This afternoon, I watched the movie Weird Science for the thousandth time, and I have a question. Early in the movie, when Gary and Wyatt are first "building" Lisa, they are working at an all-black computer with two monitors (one is a green-screen and the other looks like a 19" color monitor). The system does not look familiar. Remembering the thread about the "War Games" computers, does anyone know: 1. Who made the computer on the desk? You can briefly see a logo on the front which looks like "TDK". 2. Which system(s) did they use to create the wire-frame graphics? The movie is (c) 1985 if that helps placing the technology. War Games is (c) 1983. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

1
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Docs poted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Docs posted today to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ are all CSG data sheets: - 24256 ROM - 65245 octal buffer - 2364 ROM - 2332 ROM - 6529 single port interface - 6523 TPI - 6525 TPI - 8701 clock generator Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

1
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Early Desktop Calculator Directory on-line,

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hello, I just completed one of the projects I've been working on for my calculator Web page and thought it would be of interest to some of you. I've published a directory of desktop calculators that were manufactured from 1964 through approximately 1975. There are nearly a thousand machines listed in the directory. Included in the directory is information such as manufacturer, model, display type, # of memories, and decimal setting. There is also a "notes" column where I list if a machine has other capabilities such as programmability or scientific functions. There were quite a few high-end programmable calculators made during this time, many of which were advertised as being more cost-effective than mini-computers of the timeframe. Examples would be the HPs, the Olivetti Programma series, Compucorp machines (also marketed by Monroe and Dietzgen), some Sharp machines, and a few others. The directory is linked from the "desktop calculators" section of my Web site. It was quite a lot of work to pull all this together, I hope some of you find it useful and enjoyable. Regards, Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 7 months

3
2
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Hayes S100 modem

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > Does the D.C. Hayes modem for the S100 bus use the same "Microcoupler" as > their early Apple ][ modem? Hmm, how many FCC type IDs are there between them? I don't know, but I always figured that was the reason both modems used the same Microcoupler box -- Hayes only had to get one device FCC type-accepted that way. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 7 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

This manual (Chapter 10) describes a 'ROM Cartrudge II' that is provided as a plug-in option in the HX-20. The ROM Cartridge II supplies from 8k to 32k bytes of data. Data in the externam ROM memory unit is in the forrm of a read-only ROM file. Data are read from the external ROM memory unit via i/oports using an addressing counter and a shift register.... port info follows..... -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >[HX20] > >> The microcassette drive was actually removable. I don't know if Epson >> ever released anything else that could plug into that space besides the > >The hardware manual mentions (and gives a schematic for) an EPROM >cartridge that will fit up there. I've never tried to build one, but it >looks possible. > >-tony > >

27 years, 7 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by aknight＠mindspring.com

At 06:44 PM 11/7/98 -0600, Doug wrote: >On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM >> of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. > >Yup, Dave will have one: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/swcd.htm I've spoken to Dave about this and am doing some scanning to include on the CD ROM. Right now the effort is mostly targeted at the HP pocket calculator models. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) there are far fewer collectors of "big iron" HPs like the 9800 series than of the pocket models. But there will be a lot of good material for the HP programmable calculators, including many/most of the application packs for machines like the HP65, HP67, and HP97. > >And Jake Schwartz will have another: > http://www.waterw.com/~jake-s/ppccdrom.htm This is an excellent set of CD ROMs. It has the issue of HP Journal that covers the HP9100, and the articles from later HP Journals that cover HP pocket calcs., as well as all the issues of HP65 Key Notes and HP Key Notes that cover HP's pocket programmable calculators. It has all the issues of the PPC Journal (including HP65 Notes, PPC Calculator Journal, and PPC Computer Journal). I haven't looked at all the issues yet but I'd guess that the PPC Computer Journal gives pretty good coverage to things like the HP75 and HP85 computers. For $20, it's a great deal. I think Jake said there's over 7000 pages of scanned material on this 2-CD ROM set. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 7 months

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HP 88780S tape drive

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone have spare docs on the HP 88780S 9-track tape drive? I'm looking for both user and service manuals. Thanks! Eric

27 years, 7 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, At 06:44 PM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM >> of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. > >Yup, Dave will have one: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/swcd.htm Yes, I looked at his website and found all that stuff. His ISP had gotten so slow that I had quit looking at his site. > >And Jake Schwartz will have another: > http://www.waterw.com/~jake-s/ppccdrom.htm Yes, I got three of the first sets from Jake at the HP conference in Portland. > >> Have you gotten the HP 110 stuff yet? I haven't. I E-mailed the guy and >> he said that he'd send the stuff to you but hasn't sent mine yet. >> OOPs! Forgget that. I just read your second message and I see you got the >> stuff. How does it look? > >It looks fine, but the guy took so long to ship that I was able to find >two addtional HP 110's in the meantime. Yeah, they seem to be pretty common and there's not much interest in them. More trading fodder! Anybody >have a spare 9100 they want to trade for a laptop or two?! You wish!!!!! Joe > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 7 months

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New stuff posted to Web site

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what I posted tonight to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html - Altair 8800 Operations Manual (4 parts) - AIM65 Basic Language Reference (2 parts) - remaining Morrow DiskJockey 2D parts (total 4 parts) Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

Good day, all... I picked up an Epson HX-20 this weekend (with a rather thick and complete technical reference (the HX-20 Answer store is now open...)) The odd thing is that it *doesn't* have a built in microcassette. It did however come with the a cassette interface cord ala ear/mic/aux for which the machine is jacked. All refs (including aforementioned tech ref) to this machine I've seen show the integrated microcassette... Any info? anybody? Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 7 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >Is that the hardware techref or the software techref? I've got the former >(thick book with schematics, diagnostic instructions, lubrication chart, >etc), but I also have a lot of software questions. I think that is the 'latter' one Tony... Its kind of slim on schematics and fat on rom routines etc... the 'Chapters at a Glance' are: 1. Intro, 2. Keyboard, 3. LCD, 4. Cass & mCass, 5. mPrinter, 6. rs-323, 7. Serial, 8. Floppy, 9. Bar Code Reader, 10. Rom Cart II, 11. Misc. i/o, 12. Load Module, 13. Slave MCU, 14. Virtual Screen, 15. Menu, 16. Monitor, 17. Basic, 18. Mem Maps (cha-ching, 19. Math Routines Appendexes: a. real-time clock, b. mem map quick ref, c. slace cpu mem map, d. subroutines, e. variables - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 7 months

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Info on H-I Plotter

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Today, I picked-up a Houston Instruments DMP2 plotter. The plotter looks like a really old 8-1/2x11" X-Y plotter with manual pen selection and what I think is an RS232 interface (internally, it's hooked to an AY3-1014). Does anyone have any info on this beastie? Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > <snip> Did you at least get the plastic cover that fit in its place? Hi Sam, Yes, Its apparently, a (stock) dummy cartridge in the spot.... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 7 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. Have you gotten the HP 110 stuff yet? I haven't. I E-mailed the guy and he said that he'd send the stuff to you but hasn't sent mine yet. OOPs! Forgget that. I just read your second message and I see you got the stuff. How does it look? Joe At 05:25 PM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >It seems that HP recently granted documentation duplication rights to a >couple of collectors. One of them is Dave Hicks, Mr. HP Museum. Dave >plans to cut a CD-ROM with lots-o-docs, and he's looking for volunteers to >help scan docs. I don't know how broad his reprint rights are, so you >might want to check with him before you start scanning. He primarily >collects calcs, but HP positioned several bona fide computers as calcs in >the 1968-1980 timeframe, so I know he'll be interested in docs for those. > >You can contact him at: > Dave Hicks <dgh(a)hpmuseum.org> > http://www.hpmuseum.org > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 7 months

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Another one --- Re: IBM 3274

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I've also got one of these things (IBM 3274).If anyone wants it they can have it for a VERY reasonable price. It's located in Florida. Joe At 01:03 AM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >As Jay Jaeger pointed out to me, this thing is a terminal controller. I >was thinking it was a small server. Makes sense given the label on the >disk that came with it. I should have guessed from the number as well. > Is this of use to anyone on the list? I'm in Toronto. I'm not >going to store it as its out of my league for collectables. If nobody >wants it I'll grab the 8" drive out of it and hook it up to my PC. Of >course as soon as I do that the mainframe will show up. Probably sitting >in the garbage of the man around the corner who works for IBM. > Let me know soon. > >Colan > > > > >

27 years, 7 months

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2D barcodes

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I >can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... >But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the >data density was pretty good.. >Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still >born of the info age.... Not still born at all - "2D barcodes" are coming into common use, and can be found on many recent package tracking labels. Tim.

27 years, 7 months

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An odd weekend find....

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>technical reference (the HX-20 Answer store is now open...)) The odd thing >is that it *doesn't* have a built in microcassette. It did however come >with the a cassette interface cord ala ear/mic/aux for which the machine is >jacked. All refs (including aforementioned tech ref) to this machine I've >seen show the integrated microcassette... Any info? anybody? Not that unusual, mine doesn't have one either.

27 years, 7 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I mentioned that all Apple computers have debuggers/monitors. NeXT is a workstation as far as I am concernced. The IBM PC is a good example of how things should be, though if it had a monitor too, it would be nice. Not like i'd ever use it, just nice to know it's there. >>Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >>development systems don't count. Satisfied? > >Ah, but on this list, and most definitly in my home, PDP's, IMSAI's, etc. >are home personal computers :^) > >Besides Allison mentioned the IBM PC with ROM BASIC, and I've used a Zenith >Z248 (a 286) with a ROM Monitor that you can drop into, both of these are >definitly not developement machines. My NeXT slab had a ROM based monitor, >and the PowerMac I'm typing this on can be dropped into the debugger at any >time by hitting the proper key sequence. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by hhacker＠gte.net

Don't be surprised if such schema return to efficacy. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 2:27 PM Subject: Re: "Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine >There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I >can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... >But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the >data density was pretty good.. >Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still >born of the info age.... > >Mike: dogas(a)leading.net > >

27 years, 7 months

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Short Intro

by hhacker＠gte.net

Kilobaud, when it first came out, provided the option to obtain a "Lifetime Subscription" which I recall cost $150.00US. Given that Kilobaud was so short lived, I do not think that those who purchased this subscription got their money's worth. Anybody recall things differently? William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Swiger <cswiger(a)widomaker.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:34 PM Subject: Short Intro >Hello everybody > >Have just subscribed to the list but want to say hi to the members. > >My projects involve bringing an Altair back to life and trying to save >some of the software, migrating from cassette to audio CD and adding >to documentation. > >Just curious if anyone remembers a magazine called "Kilobaud" - Seems >like it had a short life. > > > Chuck > cswiger(a)widomaker.com >

27 years, 7 months

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8" drive/pc hookup web site

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

A while back I believe someone posted an address for a site that provided the schematic for hooking up an 8" drive to a pc. IF so, please pass it on to me again. Sorry for losing it. TIA Colan

27 years, 7 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by dogas＠leading.net

There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the data density was pretty good.. Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still born of the info age.... Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 7 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > As with all the others, it hung around for a year or so and then folde < > People just didn't like the concept I suppose, or maybe it just wasn' < > accurate enough (I don't know since I never actually used it). Neither, it was an attempt to distribute software. With floppies becomming more common and genrally dropping in price the floppy became the preferred mode. At the same time BBS systems were becomming common place enough to download software as well. In the larger view of technology it was a attempt to solve a problem that other solutions would displace. Other interum solutions included those thin records distributed by Interface Age that used the KC cassette interface standard. Allison

27 years, 7 months

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Kilobaud Magazine

by franke＠sbs.de

>> 'Byte's early years were fun for hardware hackers - I wonder if >> anybody actually got their 'barcode' software publishing scheme >> to work. They had a few issues with pages of barcodes you were >> supposedly able to read in with a wand. > I can also recall some MacUser's from the mid-80's had some scheme where > you could read in programs from the magazine with some form of wand, never > really took of tho. In Germany 'mc' (a more hardware orientated mag) tried also this kind of barcode thing in the early 80s - but I think after a year or so it faded away (the bar code, the magazine lasted until 94 I think). Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by franke＠sbs.de

> Are the old Kilobauds worth anything? > Old Bytes? 80 Micro? > How about the issues of PC magazine that are more than 10 years old? Shure - One year of Byte generates enough heat to get a hot bath (I still have acces to a coal heated shower :) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Kilobaud Magazine

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 09:06 AM 11/7/98 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >Then of course there was the Causin SoftStrip reader. The Apple magazine >Nibble (among others) used to print strips about 5/8" wide that you could >cut out and run through the reader to load the published programs into >your computer instead of typing in listings. > >Thanks to Kai's generosity I finally fulfilled my lifelong quest to obtain >a SoftStrip reader at the VCF. I am complete. Naw... you are only complete when you find a copy of the software to generate the Causin bar codes (yes, they did actually sell it!) and start archiving your software on reams of paper! ...and when you find it, I want a copy too! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 7 months

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486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)

by franke＠sbs.de

> PC Magazine back in the early 90's had something that mentioned this. If I > remember correctly it was one of the Dvorak columns. He mentioned that the > 486SX was basically a marketing ploy by Intel to allow them to get rid of > 486DX chips with defective Math CoPro units. More or less there have been also 486SX with full working but disabled FPUs, since the 486SX was also used to deploy a lower price unit without touching the 'real' 486 price. > As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I > always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal > processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. No, the 487 was just an 486DX with no modifications to the processor it self - just (AFAIR) one of the former unused pins now delivered a signal to disable the 486SX. So systems with 486SX and 487 just had two complete CPUs (And double power consumption :). > I've no idea if this is true, but it made sense to me, since why through > out a chip with a good processor, with you can just package it as a 486SX, > and sell it at reduced cost. Sounds to me like everyone won. After all, > how many people really felt the need for a Math CoProcessor in the early > 90's? Gee - I had a 8087 in my first XT - I never used it beside some tests, but i HAD one - super power computer ! Yes, I wrote some programms to play with the ability to have two concurent processors running, but no real world app. And I still don't know for what a FPU is usefull - Anything can still be done in integer - you just have to think (sometimes a bit harder) about what you are about to do. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 7 months

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Short Intro

by cswiger＠widomaker.com

Hello everybody Have just subscribed to the list but want to say hi to the members. My projects involve bringing an Altair back to life and trying to save some of the software, migrating from cassette to audio CD and adding to documentation. Just curious if anyone remembers a magazine called "Kilobaud" - Seems like it had a short life. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 7 months

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Does anyone need an LA100 board?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: While cleaning my lab, I came across a DEC LA100 main board. Does anyone need this? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

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ePay revisited once more

by rcini＠email.msn.com

>>The problem you're encountering isn't an error in math, it's an error in >>understanding. You're misunderstanding is common becayse Ebay words thier >>rules rather crappily. >>You are charged 5% of all sales up to $25 PLUS an additional 2.5% for $25 to $1000. >>So using the printer that sold for $41, you get charged 5% for the first >>$25 (1.25) then 2.5% for the additional $16 (.40) for a total of $1.65. >>I know, it's a weird system :) You may think that it is wierd for ePay, but it's not uncommon to United States citizens as a whole. That type of system, called a marginal rate scale, is used by the Internal Revenue Service (but called "tax brackets") for calculating your Income Tax. Yes, folks, ePay uses the same system as the US Government uses. The only difference is that the IRS marginal rate increases as the scale goes up; ePay's goes down. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 7 months

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486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Speaking of which, does anyone have any 387 chips to go in a laptop? I guess they're the pinless variety. >>Speaking of which, I read in a PC repair book that the 486SX is a >>486DX with certain lines cut to disable the math coprocessor. The >>thing that went into the coprocessor socket was a rebranded 486DX >>that took over all functions of the SX when installed. Anyone know >>about this? > >PC Magazine back in the early 90's had something that mentioned this. If I >remember correctly it was one of the Dvorak columns. He mentioned that the >486SX was basically a marketing ploy by Intel to allow them to get rid of >486DX chips with defective Math CoPro units. > >As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I >always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal >processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. > >I've no idea if this is true, but it made sense to me, since why through >out a chip with a good processor, with you can just package it as a 486SX, >and sell it at reduced cost. Sounds to me like everyone won. After all, >how many people really felt the need for a Math CoProcessor in the early >90's? I added one to a 386sx laptop in January of '94 when I was forced to >go from my 486DX/33 to a 386SX/16 laptop since I was mainly using it for >Linux, and didn't want to have to emulate the math functions, still I don't >know that I needed it. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 7 months

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