25 Jan
1998
25 Jan
'98
7:07 p.m.
I think the following says all that need be said about this debate.
I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:12:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com>
Subject: Re: Are We Not Men? (& Women?) [OT^2] (Was Re: PDP-8/Es available [NOT!])
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote:
My mail server must have been down the day you were
put in charge. I,
for one, would like to hear Mr Whitson's comments on this matter.
Mr. Whitson doesn't have to comment on the matter as he already has, IN
THE MANNER OF A FAQ WHICH CLEARLY EXPLAINS WHAT IS AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE
DISCUSSION FOR THIS GROUP. Any drug addled moron can determine from the
FAQ that the last five days of you blowing your wad over yourself is not
what is considered on-topic for a discussion group on CLASSIC COMPUTERS.
Clearly there is a question of interpretation here
and, seeing as how I've
received no warnings or chastisements directly from Bill or from anyone
else for that matter, I'll assume
that your opinion is either that of the minority or differs from his to
such a degree that it isn't worth the bits wasted in its transmission.
No, its really just that Bill is too busy to police the discussion.
Otherwise, I'm sure he'd be objecting. Your "interpretation" of what
belongs in this discussion must be based on the "This-is-my-life" FAQ,
because nowhere in the FAQ does it say that what you've been discussing in
acceptable. It is my interpretation that anyone who would violate the
rules of the FAQ so blatantly as you have is a total ass.
I suspect that you would do well to discard your copy
of _Roberts Rules of
Order_ and procure a copy of _When Anger Hurts_. A (wo)man's
maturity is
defined not so much by his principles and unwavering rigidity in the face
of that which offends him as it is by the depth of his patience and his
tolerance for others in spite of his dissatisfaction with their behavior.
My god, what is your problem? Don't quote any passages from some fucken
self-help book to me. Please. I'd suspect that you'd do much better to
read the ClassicCmp FAQ over and over until it registers with you.
As I've said, I am not only confident but resolute
that the
aforementioned discussion WAS, indeed, within the parameters set forth
for the group...IE the discussion of computer collecting, which is driven
by various motivations which are worthy of discussion in and of
themselves inasmuch as they reveal why one may wish to collect one sort
of computer over another or collect computers at all and recognizing that
we all need some reassurance, from time to time, that computer collecting
is not merely a deviance or eccentricity.
Yeah, that would be all fine and dandy if that is what you were
discussing, but the fact is, you were telling us all about how you never
went to college, you started an ISP, you became relatively successful with
it, you make twice the median income of your state, you married a
beautiful woman, you think drugs are bad, blah blah blah. So what!? What
does THAT have to do with collecting computers? You claim to be making
some point about the motivation for collecting computers, but where was
it? I think your point was more to brag about your accomplishment, which
I really couldn't care less about, considering: a) I don't know you, and
thus don't care and b) this is not a discussion group for talking about
how good we feel about ourselves.
You reveal yourself in your words and the manner in
which you convey
them. Should chastisement rain down upon me by the TRUE powers that be,
then I will accept such knowing that I did so as a mature adult and not as a
sniveling whiner. I will know that however just or unjust such
If you were a "mature adult" you'd realize you are out of order and would
police yourself. Think about it...only a child need be chastised for
breaking rules. Why not act your physical, rather than mental, age.
judgement may be, many will recognize my sincerity and
respect me for
my forthright and honest nature and my respect for others. But I will NOT
Blah blah blah. There you go blowing yourself again. Thus proving my
point that all you are interested in is promoting yourself. Go put up a
web page about yourself if you think you're such a fantastic guy. I think
the only thing people will realize in this case is that you are obscenely
off-topic.
accept condescension or judgement from YOU so descend
from your horse and
stand amongst men (and women) as an equal rather than a self-appointed
proclaimer of what is worthy and what is unworthy of discussion.
How dramatic. Are you for real?
As for your threat of spamming, it carries little
weight here as it will
result in the implementation of various hacks which function to deny
incoming mail from specific mail servers or from specific addresses.
How impressive.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
26 Jan
26 Jan
2:05 a.m.
New subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?)
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote:
I think the following says all that need be said about this debate.
I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
Let's get one thing clear here ... Sam is - well - Sam 8-)
It's not the first time he has - er - bossed people around 8-)
[MONSTER SNIPPAGE] (Been there - done that 8-)
I have always thought Sam's sig. was enough to tell you everything
you needed to know about him - but let's break it down 8-)
Sam
Computer Historian,
Well - He certainly has quite a few - and seems to know his stuff - but
a historian does it for the money. A collector does it for love.
Programmer,
Maybe
Musician,
Never heard of him
Philosopher,
Obviously NOT. Philosophers tend to discuss things even when they are
not in agreement - it is the discussion that leads to enlightenment.
Athlete,
Never heard of him
Writer,
Not very inspired but certainly wordy - from what we've seen
Jackass
Any questions?
Now - I have to state that I am in some agreement with Sam but I also
disagree. The drug culture predates computers (as discussed here) by
serveral centuries (certainly meets the 10 yr rule 8-) And the drug
culture (as discussed here) is an integral part of the early computer
culture (at least in the U.S.) Anyone who attempts to ignore that is
well - Stupid! For some, computers were the anti-drug program of the
day. For others, the other way around.
I personally enjoyed reading the posts. I usually pick and choose
anyway - something Sam could do as well.
BC
9:38 a.m.
New subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?)
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Brett wrote:
Now - I have to state that I am in some agreement with
Sam but I also
disagree. The drug culture predates computers (as discussed here) by
serveral centuries (certainly meets the 10 yr rule 8-) And the drug
culture (as discussed here) is an integral part of the early computer
culture (at least in the U.S.) Anyone who attempts to ignore that is
well - Stupid! For some, computers were the anti-drug program of the
day. For others, the other way around.
It the early days of computers, when I used to hang out at the
college computer lab (where my mom worked) to get a chance at the computer
when someone who signed up for it, forgot to show up for their turn, I'd
sit down and hack away. Back in those days (pre-micro days) all the
computer enthusiasts had long hair in a pony tail and smoked pot
regularly. Typically, we'd smoke pot BEFORE we'd start hacking. ;) It
wasn't until I got my KIM-1 and started hanging around micro enthusiasts
that I noticed a trend toward short hair, NON-drug use, and (for want of a
better word) geeks. The long haired pot smoking hacker was more of a nerd
while the micro hacker was more towards the geek. However, in those days,
a geek was very bright, they had to be, you had to build most of your own
stuff, while today it's all GUI and plug&play (tm) technology...........sq
--
-<squest(a)cris.com>---------\ ( ( | ) ) Amendment1 Congress shall make
============================> /_\ no law abridging the freedom
MicroPower FM Broadcasting-/ /\_/\ of speech, or of the press.
2:48 p.m.
New subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?)
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Steve J. Quest wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Brett wrote:
I still have my KIM-1 8-)
Now - I have to state that I am in some agreement
with Sam but I also
disagree. The drug culture predates computers (as discussed here) by
serveral centuries (certainly meets the 10 yr rule 8-) And the drug
culture (as discussed here) is an integral part of the early computer
culture (at least in the U.S.) Anyone who attempts to ignore that is
well - Stupid! For some, computers were the anti-drug program of the
day. For others, the other way around.
It the early days of computers, when I used to hang out at the
college computer lab (where my mom worked) to get a chance at the computer
when someone who signed up for it, forgot to show up for their turn, I'd
sit down and hack away. Back in those days (pre-micro days) all the
computer enthusiasts had long hair in a pony tail and smoked pot
regularly. Typically, we'd smoke pot BEFORE we'd start hacking. ;) It
wasn't until I got my KIM-1 and started hanging around micro enthusiasts that I noticed a trend toward short hair, NON-drug
use, and (for want of a
better word) geeks. The long haired pot smoking hacker was more of a nerd
while the micro hacker was more towards the geek. However, in those days,
a geek was very bright, they had to be, you had to build most of your own
stuff, while today it's all GUI and plug&play (tm) technology...........sq
And Steve that is the point - in a way. The 'High' I get from bringing
some poor beastie up from the grave or getting that bit-twiddle interface
to finally work right far exceeds any drugs I have ever done 8-) And when
I look at my PDP-11's - it brings an immediate flash back!
One thing that scares me though is how the 'users' of today are M O R E
braindead than the druggies of yesteryear! It must have been all that
T.V. they watched 8-)
They problem is loosing the 'Solving Process' mentality. It allows anyone
to hype something as a solution to your problem and make you pay for it.
And - Gee - just like drugs - it won't solve anything! Because you are
not Solving the Problem.
Well I have some Problems to Solve now so will let you all get back to
your regularly scheduled discussion 8-)
BC
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?)
Brett wrote:
Now - I have to state that I am in some agreement with
Sam but I also
disagree. The drug culture predates computers (as discussed here) by
serveral centuries (certainly meets the 10 yr rule 8-) And the drug
culture (as discussed here) is an integral part of the early computer
culture (at least in the U.S.) Anyone who attempts to ignore that is
well - Stupid! For some, computers were the anti-drug program of the
day. For others, the other way around.
I have long been of the opinion that the guys who wrote BSD (then
SunOS, now Solaris) did _way_ too many drugs at Berkeley.
--
Ward Griffiths
Dylan: How many years must some people exist,
before they're allowed to be free?
WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed",
they'll never be free.
12 Feb
12 Feb
10:07 a.m.
New subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?)
At 07:05 26-01-98 -0600, Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote:
Me too.
I think the following says all that need be said about this debate.
I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
Let's get one thing clear here ... Sam is - well - Sam 8-)
It's not the first time he has - er - bossed people around 8-)
[MONSTER SNIPPAGE] (Been there - done that 8-) I have always thought Sam's sig. was enough to tell
you everything
you needed to know about him - but let's break it down 8-)
Hi Brett,
An historian isn't always in it for the money IMHO. Often professional
historians who work at museums, schools, libraries, etc. get paid towards
the middle to low end of a typical salary range, depending upon the
geographic region (unless those institutions are very well endowed
financially). They are in it for the love of history: the challenge to
learn more, to preserve history (artifacts and lore) and the belief that
they help today's and future observers learn about and understand the past,
whatever that specific subject matter may be. They are enthusiastic about
their work. Then, on the other hand, some historians are known to be "paid
authorities" or whatever and consider it just a job they intend to get paid
for.
An amateur historian, of which most of us reading this probably could
consider themselves and if you may permit me to speak for you, is in it
also for love of history for much of the same reasons as the enthusiastic
paid historians I mentioned above.
A collector could be an historian too, but may be defined as a more
financially broke historian because of, simply, collecting artifacts! 8^)
I fall in the range of being an historian and collector, e.g., I have a
sometimes burning interest to learn more and document a thing or subject
matter if it really piques my interest plus I have a considerable
collection of equipment, mostly early radio receivers (broadcast, military,
commercial), test equipment, parts and documentation. I also have a modest
collection of classic computers with prime interest in the non-home type
machines (for example: DG Nova 1200, IBM 9370, Heath H8 and H11, HP 250/30,
HP 9000 stuff, Teletype equipment, etc., etc.) My paper library takes up a
whole extra bedroom, mostly radio related material.
And yes, Sam, this subject of discussing the term "computer historian" _is_
on topic ;-)
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
Sam
Computer Historian,
Well - He certainly has quite a few - and seems to know his stuff - but
a historian does it for the money. A collector does it for love. 
26 Jan
26 Jan
5:34 a.m.
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote:
I think the following says all that need be said about
this debate.
I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening.
No, actually, I think the fact that you took a message intended to be
private (to avoid flooding the discussion with off-topic drivel and to
avoid you the embarassment) and posted it (without my approval) publicly
only tells me that you have a callous disregard for privacy and a callous
disregard for the rules of this discussion, and thus have little
integrity.
Anthony, you have problems. Please seek counseling.
For maturity's sake, please direct any follow-ups to private e-mail.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
7:45 a.m.
All I've done Sam is stand up to a bully. If that makes you feel bad, tough.
I think you've revealed your own true, hateful nature enough that any
further
conversation has little purpose. I will be automatically deleting your
messages from this point on without reading them.
Furthermore, I will CONTINUE to reminisce about the past and collecting
computers until such time as Bill Whitson removes me from the list
because *I* was never off topic. If you don't like it, send email to
Bill or learn to deal with it.
You can call me all the names you want to but it doesn't make you right
and it doesn't make me wrong. Insult me all you want but I won't take it.
If I annoy you personally (nobody else seems annoyed with me), then TOO BAD.
Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote:
I think the following says all that need be said
about this debate.
I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening.
No, actually, I think the fact that you took a message intended to be
private (to avoid flooding the discussion with off-topic drivel and to
avoid you the embarassment) and posted it (without my approval) publicly
only tells me that you have a callous disregard for privacy and a callous
disregard for the rules of this discussion, and thus have little
integrity.
Anthony, you have problems. Please seek counseling.
For maturity's sake, please direct any follow-ups to private e-mail.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
9638
days inactive
9655
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
cfandt＠servtech.com -
danjo＠xnet.com -
dastar＠wco.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
Squest＠cris.com -
wirehead＠retrocomputing.com