<there is no doubt that the early mass-produced CD-ROM drives (not the <origionals of 1984, but the ones that were made to be put into PCs, not <servers) are classic componets, even though many are of this decade. <In my opinion, the first 486 PCs (not servers) are classics... ones that <are still used, but classics... even though most of 'em were made in Classic, like the 14 year old washing machine I have. Most post 286 PCs are appliances just like a washer dryer only built worse. <said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10 <years or older would do. I do not wish to offend the owner, but they <are one person, and they can make mistakes... and together, as a group, <the chances of making an accurate definiton are smaller with us. <Possibly (out for MUCH revision...) is the definition "Any computer <which has aged sufficently to be considered "outdated" by the computer <market and has historic signifiance, OR is 10 years old or older." The <one evedeint place that requires revsion is the "historical signifiacne" To me most VAXen are still used and sold for commercial use, though many are still over 10. Try and buy some of the PDP-8s that are in commercial service. Age does not make a computer significant alone though, it's a distinct factor. Another factor is unique design in a technical sense or esthetic (or the lack of) style. Rarity is an impact too. I can name several machines of the altair imsai time frame that are far more scarce. For example, I still have not found or seen an IMSAI IMP48 other than my own. <but I'm not sure how to include that while still acknowledging the <presence of many of the best machines and componets that did indeed fail <in the process... but at least Wang's did eventually fall.... I can't <even rememeber all of the problems that they had... Wang played to to narrow a market (word processing and document management) that was invaded by all the micros at far lower price and in some cases a product that was more stylish or appealed to the user more. With shrinking market space and a but if empire building by Ahn Wang the business costs exceeded revenue... then rest is not news or unexpected. The layoffs were amoung the most brutal in the industry. Allison