6 Apr
2010
6 Apr
'10
2:11 a.m.
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
Why nastier? The card ones are thicker (7 thou) and have sharp square corners. I think the
first time I heard about them (in the UK) the card ones were called chads. It in a warning
from our lecturer not to use them as confetti as he knew of a case of them getting into
the bride's eye and she spent the next few hours in hospital because of them.
I think the holes were oblong so that the sideways on (row at a time) brushes of old IBM
equipment could get through them easier. I don't think brushes would be able to read
them a column at a time.
By the way, I have some 80 column cards punched with round holes, two holes for each
oblong one, and they were described as 160 column cards.
Roger Holmes
I wonder if "chad" had origins with
teletypes and paper tape, an
industry (telephone) separate from the punched card / data processing
industry way back when, and in which different terminology developed.
Dunno, but either was fun to hide in a friend's drawer or light
fixture. Paper tape punches were far nastier than the ones from
punched cards. 
6 Apr
6 Apr
8:43 a.m.
On 6 Apr 2010 at 10:11, Roger Holmes wrote:
Why nastier? The card ones are thicker (7 thou) and
have sharp square
corners. I think the first time I heard about them (in the UK) the
card ones were called chads. It in a warning from our lecturer not to
use them as confetti as he knew of a case of them getting into the
bride's eye and she spent the next few hours in hospital because of
them.
The paper tape chad is much smaller than the card (chips,chad) and
much more difficult to get out of one's hair. If one wanted to play
a prank, it was best done on a dry cold winter's day when static
electricity would play hob with the things sticking to everything in
sight.
The punched card (chips,chad) being much thicker and larger was
somewhat easier to deal with.
Another artifact of the old days is 1/2" tape write rings. At CDC
Sunnyvale, there were very high (ca 14') ceilings on the machine
floor, which made it a perfect environment for playing ring-toss onto
the fluorescent light fixtures when one had a couple of hours of
block time in the middle of the night and nothing to do but wait
while a job completed. One rarely used them for their intended
purpose--it was possible to reach behind a mounted tape with a couple
of punched cards and toggle the latching write sensor.
--Chuck
9:03 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
The paper tape chad is much smaller than the card
(chips,chad) and
much more difficult to get out of one's hair. If one wanted to play
a prank, it was best done on a dry cold winter's day when static
electricity would play hob with the things sticking to everything in
sight.
When I was in college my roommate pranked me by filling my pair of
deerskin, lined gloves with chips. I was getting the damned chips
jammed under my fingernails when I put the gloves on a few years later.
Barry
--
11:27 a.m.
On 04/06/2010 08:43 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The paper tape chad is much smaller than the card (chips,chad) and
much more difficult to get out of one's hair. If one wanted to play
a prank, it was best done on a dry cold winter's day when static
electricity would play hob with the things sticking to everything in
sight.
Imagine what some bored students can do with several large bags of
chaff (dots punched out of paper tape), some wide masking tape, some
wide tin foil, foil lined boxes, a galvanized bucket with a lid, shoe
box lids, a largeish van de Graaf generator, some "borrowed" master
keys to lockers, and a bit of free time during a very dry winter.
==
jd
New members urgently required for SUICIDE CLUB, Watford area.
-- Monty Python's Big Red Book
--
7 Apr
7 Apr
10:01 a.m.
Hi
It seems to me that the little round pieces of paper from
paper tape is chad. The rectangular pieces from punch cards
are chips.
Dwight
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2:03 p.m.
On 04/07/2010 10:01 AM, dwight elvey wrote:
Hi
It seems to me that the little round pieces of paper from
paper tape is chad. The rectangular pieces from punch cards
are chips.
Dwight
Hi!
Everyone around me at the time called it chaff. Even the native IBMers
who used paper tape every single day. Those were the days when IBM
employee payroll statements were still printed on punched cards. Even
the hams called it that. At least those I knew.
Maybe Chad objected.
Maybe they were just funnin' me.
Did IBM really patent all those little chips? I think I've got a few
left over if they want them back. They should be useful as spares for
some keypunch or other.
==
jd
Lizzie Borden took an axe,
And plunged it deep into the VAX;
Don't you envy people who
Do all the things YOU want to do?
8 Apr
8 Apr
12:38 p.m.
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, jd wrote:
Everyone around me at the time called it chaff. Even
the native IBMers
who used paper tape every single day. Those were the days when IBM
employee payroll statements were still printed on punched cards. Even
the hams called it that. At least those I knew.
Maybe Chad objected.
. . . so they hung him?
Maybe they were just funnin' me.
Did IBM really patent all those little chips?
My father said that IBM had patented the shape of the chips. Remember
round hole punched cards?
I think I've got a few left over if they want them
back. They should be
useful as spares for some keypunch or other.
There is an active thread on the list about how to desolder chips.
How do you keep them from burning?
Do keypunch machines start with lace cards and glue chips in?
Wouldn't you have to refill the chip box pretty often?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1:30 p.m.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote:
There is an active thread on the list about how to
desolder chips. How
do you keep them from burning?
That doesn't bother me as 63/37 solder melts somewhat below the
temperature at which paper catches fire. It's *tinning* the darned
stuff that's the problem.
Round-hole Univac 90-column cards.
--Chuck
4:07 p.m.
On 08/04/2010 21:30, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 8 Apr 2010 at 12:38, Fred Cisin wrote:
Easy -- coat them with aquadag and then copper-plate them before tinning.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
There is an active thread on the list about how
to desolder chips. How
do you keep them from burning?
That doesn't bother me as 63/37 solder melts somewhat below the
temperature at which paper catches fire. It's *tinning* the darned
stuff that's the problem.
4:34 p.m.
>> There is an active thread on the list about
how to desolder chips. How
>> do you keep them from burning?
> That doesn't bother me as 63/37 solder melts somewhat below the
> temperature at which paper catches fire. It's *tinning* the darned
> stuff that's the problem.
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Easy -- coat them with aquadag and then copper-plate
them before tinning.
. . . or fire up the punch, and make a batch of chips out of "tin foil"
10:17 p.m.
Re Desoldering ic's
We used a special Weller tip. It consisted of metal block (about the same
size and shape as an IC base with holes where the pins would be) attached to
a Weller tip sleeve (ie the part that held the tip to the heating barrel)
On the component side you had a spring loaded clip that exerted even
pressure on the chip away from the board. Apply said tip to the copper side
of the board and the chip came out complete. Then the solder sucker was used
to clear out the holes.
Regards
?
Rod Smallwood
?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: 09 April 2010 00:35
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: chips vs chad
>> There is an active thread on the list about
how to desolder chips. How
>> do you keep them from burning?
> That doesn't bother me as 63/37 solder melts somewhat below the
> temperature at which paper catches fire. It's *tinning* the darned
> stuff that's the problem.
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Easy -- coat them with aquadag and then copper-plate
them before tinning.
. . . or fire up the punch, and make a batch of chips out of "tin foil"
10:35 p.m.
On 9 Apr 2010 at 6:17, Rod Smallwood wrote:
We used a special Weller tip. It consisted of metal
block (about the
same size and shape as an IC base with holes where the pins would be)
attached to a Weller tip sleeve (ie the part that held the tip to the
heating barrel) On the component side you had a spring loaded clip
that exerted even pressure on the chip away from the board. Apply said
tip to the copper side of the board and the chip came out complete.
Then the solder sucker was used to clear out the holes.
I remember those--you could get them in various patterns, such as a
round cup for TO-100 packages. (I may still have one somewhere for
my Ungar iron). My recollection is that as manufacturers went to
multi-layer PCBs and buried ground planes that the amount of heat
required by the iron to perform the job got to be ridiculous. The
only DIP version I've seen worked with 0.300" wide 14/16-pin
packages. I've never seen one for a 40- or 64-pin DIP.
--Chuck
9 Apr
9 Apr
1:02 p.m.
> We used a special Weller tip. It consisted of
metal block (about the
> same size and shape as an IC base with holes where the pins would be)
> attached to a Weller tip sleeve (ie the part that held the tip to the
> heating barrel) On the component side you had a spring loaded clip
> that exerted even pressure on the chip away from the board. Apply said
> tip to the copper side of the board and the chip came out complete.
> Then the solder sucker was used to clear out the holes.
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I remember those--you could get them in various
patterns, such as a
round cup for TO-100 packages. (I may still have one somewhere for
my Ungar iron). My recollection is that as manufacturers went to
multi-layer PCBs and buried ground planes that the amount of heat
required by the iron to perform the job got to be ridiculous. The
only DIP version I've seen worked with 0.300" wide 14/16-pin
packages. I've never seen one for a 40- or 64-pin DIP.
I've never seen one the right size for chips and chads.
I saw one for 40 pin ICs. It did not work as well as desoldering one pin
at a time. My friend who had it stuck it in a drawer.
1:32 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
I received a 14/16-pin one sometime ago. Not very useful IME. Getting thermal
contact on all the pins to get them molten simultaneously just doesn't work out
well, especially on wave-soldered boards that are light on solder or boards
with small pad areas (i.e. anything after about 1978). 10 pins are overheating
while you're still trying to get another one to melt.
I tend to stick with my 1970's Soldapullt (solder sucker), some wick on
occasion, and working through the pins one-at-a time.
> We used a special Weller tip. It consisted
of metal block (about the
> same size and shape as an IC base with holes where the pins would be)
> attached to a Weller tip sleeve (ie the part that held the tip to the
> heating barrel) On the component side you had a spring loaded clip
> that exerted even pressure on the chip away from the board. Apply said
> tip to the copper side of the board and the chip came out complete.
> Then the solder sucker was used to clear out the holes.
On Thu, 8 Apr 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I remember those--you could get them in various
patterns, such as a
round cup for TO-100 packages. (I may still have one somewhere for
my Ungar iron). My recollection is that as manufacturers went to
multi-layer PCBs and buried ground planes that the amount of heat
required by the iron to perform the job got to be ridiculous. The
only DIP version I've seen worked with 0.300" wide 14/16-pin
packages. I've never seen one for a 40- or 64-pin DIP.
I've never seen one the right size for chips and chads.
I saw one for 40 pin ICs. It did not work as well as desoldering one pin
at a time. My friend who had it stuck it in a drawer. 
11:11 a.m.
Easy -- coat
them with aquadag and then copper-plate them before tinning.
. . . or fire up the punch, and make a batch of chips out of "tin foil"
1:30 p.m.
> > Easy -- coat them with aquadag and then
copper-plate them before tinning.
> . . . or fire up the punch, and make a batch of chips out of "tin foil"
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
Most 'tin' foil these days is aluminium.
Here it's generally made out of aluminum. But it seems to be pretty
similar.
And due to the oxide coating
it's a right pain to solder to. It is posible to solder to aluminium with
normal solder and flux (I have done it) -- the trick is to put a drop of
oil on the aluminium, then scrape the surface under the oil and quickly
tin it with a hot iron and solder. Most of the time it will tin. Once
it's tinend it's easy to solder a wire (or whatever) to the aluminium.
That tip will be quite useful for some OT automotive projects!
But I wouldn't fancy trying to do that with
'tin foil'
Any "tinning" of punched card chips and chad is going
to be difficult,
even if you did make them out of "tin foil".
2:14 p.m.
> > Easy -- coat them with aquadag and then
copper-plate them before tinning.
> . . . or fire up the punch, and make a batch of chips out of "tin foil"
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
Most 'tin' foil these days is aluminium.
Here it's generally made out of aluminum. But it seems to be pretty
similar. And due to the oxide coating
it's a right pain to solder to. It is posible to solder to aluminium with
normal solder and flux (I have done it) -- the trick is to put a drop of
oil on the aluminium, then scrape the surface under the oil and quickly
tin it with a hot iron and solder. Most of the time it will tin. Once
it's tinend it's easy to solder a wire (or whatever) to the aluminium.
That tip will be quite useful for some OT automotive projects! But I
wouldn't fancy trying to do that with 'tin foil'
Any
"tinning" of punched card chips and chad is going to be difficult,
even if you did make them out of "tin foil". From readoign some old books on electricity (say
1920's vintage), it
would appear that 'tin foil' was once something
other than aluminium.
Said books talk about making a waxed paper and tin foil capacitor (oops,
'condenser') and then soldering the foils together. No comment about any
problems with such soldering.
-tony
11:08 a.m.
On 04/08/2010 12:38 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
I've always assumed that the inventor was the one who created them. By
rights, he should have been the one to patent that.
I remember the little 96 column and two level cards that IBM,
Lockheed, NASA and USAF used. Of course, the USAF ones didn't
officially exist, just like their nonexistent spy satellite control
facility that only the Soviets knew about--and knew more about than
even USAF. They had some really nice, round and tiny holes. As a kid I
was always finding a bunch of them blowing around on the street.
Everyone used to collect them. They were more valuable than baseball
cards.
They may burn even without being heated. I've one Compucorp 40 column
card that has it's edges burnt off. At least I think I still have it.
it's not quite as far gone as the old Woolworth's binder paper that
somehow managed to stick around since high school. Apparently it's got
quite a bit of acid in it: Excellent for certain types of legal
documents and other hot topics.
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, jd wrote:
And then lynched him in 2000?
Everyone around me at the time called it chaff.
Even the native IBMers
who used paper tape every single day. Those were the days when IBM
employee payroll statements were still printed on punched cards. Even
the hams called it that. At least those I knew.
Maybe Chad objected.
. . . so they hung him? Maybe they were just funnin' me.
Did IBM really patent all those little chips?
My father said that IBM had patented the shape of the chips. Remember
round hole punched cards? I think I've got a few left over if they want
them back. They should be
useful as spares for some keypunch or other.
There is an active thread on the list about how to desolder chips.
How do you keep them from burning?
Do keypunch machines start with lace cards and glue chips in?
Wouldn't you have to refill the chip box pretty often?
Lace and chips do tend to get quite attached to each other. Even
without any solder. Knits, too.
==
jd
NOW HIRING: Bomb Testers urgently needed for munitions factory.
No experience needed. Must be single.
12 Apr
12 Apr
12:08 p.m.
New subject: OT: chips vs chad
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010, jd wrote:
I've always assumed that the inventor was the one
who created them. By
rights, he should have been the one to patent that.
IBM has more lawyers.
it's not quite as far gone as the old
Woolworth's binder paper that
somehow managed to stick around since high school. Apparently it's got
quite a bit of acid in it: Excellent for certain types of legal
documents and other hot topics.
"Lunch Counter Operations Manual"?
13 Apr
13 Apr
6:24 a.m.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 7:08 PM, jd <onymouse at garlic.com> wrote:
On 04/08/2010 12:38 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
That's probably fine, as long as they didn't bend, spindle or mutilate
him first.
--
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MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, jd wrote:
And then lynched him in 2000? Everyone around me at the time called it chaff.
Even the native IBMers
who used paper tape every single day. Those were the days when IBM
employee payroll statements were still printed on punched cards. Even
the hams called it that. At least those I knew.
Maybe Chad objected.
. . . so they hung him?
5368
days inactive
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