28 Apr
2013
28 Apr
'13
6:24 a.m.
I'm in the process of trying to resurrect a MicroVAX-II system.
I have a RRD50 cd reader and the associated KRQ50 controller. What I'm
missing is the cable between the cabinet kit and the drive.
I've tried various incantations, including a AUI cable (DA15 to DA15)
and what I think is a straight-through cable. I also hooked the cabinet
kit DA15M direct to the drive with no success.
In most cases the drive spins up but when I try to boot it, the red
error LED on the drive blinks then it spins down.
So, I've got to build a cable. Does anyone have documentation of the
pinout of what I need to build?
Thanks,
-Rick
28 Apr
28 Apr
12:12 p.m.
I'm in the process of trying to resurrect a MicroVAX-II system.
I have a RRD50 cd reader and the associated KRQ50 controller. What I'm
missing is the cable between the cabinet kit and the drive.
I've tried various incantations, including a AUI cable (DA15 to DA15)
and what I think is a straight-through cable. I also hooked the cabinet
kit DA15M direct to the drive with no success.
A DA15 conenctor on a CD-ROM drive suggests the old Philips/LMS (Laster
Magnetic Stroage) interface. I have the service manual dfor one such
drive used o na PCB) whihch gives the interface pinout.
If that's right, the cambe would be straight-0through, but there are a
couple of differnetial (RS422-like) signals which probabvly should be
twisted pairs. But this doens;'t explain why the thing doesn;'t work
with the cab kit direlctly plugged into the drirve.
Are you sure the drive and controlelr are working properly? I think for
it to sping up at all, the thing must be focussing correctly, which
implies the laser diode is alight, but there could be a doxen problems
with the drive. Have you looekd at the RF Eye pattern, for example?
-tony
5:09 p.m.
At 03:12 PM 4/28/2013, Tony Duell wrote:
I was hoping it was a straight-through cable, but couldn't get it to
work with things I had on hand.
I'm in the process of trying to resurrect a MicroVAX-II system.
I have a RRD50 cd reader and the associated KRQ50 controller. What I'm
missing is the cable between the cabinet kit and the drive.
I've tried various incantations, including a AUI cable (DA15 to DA15)
and what I think is a straight-through cable. I also hooked the
cabinet
kit DA15M direct to the drive with no success.
A DA15 conenctor on a CD-ROM drive suggests the old Philips/LMS (Laster
Magnetic Stroage) interface. I have the service manual dfor one such
drive used o na PCB) whihch gives the interface pinout.
If that's right, the cambe would be straight-0through, but there are a
couple of differnetial (RS422-like) signals which probabvly should be
twisted pairs. But this doens;'t explain why the thing doesn;'t work
with the cab kit direlctly plugged into the drirve. Are you sure the drive and controlelr are working
properly?
No. The drive came with the VAX, which had a dead memory board (now
fixed), an unusable TK50 (replaced) and a dead RD54 (which is still
dead - that's the next thing to try to diagnose).
The controller was bought off of e-pay, so there's no guarantee that
it's functional.
I think for it to sping up at all, the thing must be
focussing
correctly, which
implies the laser diode is alight, but there could be a doxen problems
with the drive.
It spins up and indicates ready until I try to command it to read -
then it faults. Perhaps the drive is faulty.
Have you looekd at the RF Eye pattern, for example?
No, largely because I haven't any idea where to scope the drive to
detect any signals. Which is back to my original question: what
documentation exists for the RRD50 and KRQ50?
-Rick
29 Apr
29 Apr
6:46 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Rick Murphy
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:10 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: RRD50 Cable documentation
Perhaps this will help a little:
http://www.science-bbs.com/65-electronics/a8839c7eaad8cce5.htm
http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/01/20/0008.html
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=emea_middle_east&lc=ar&a…
&tmp_geoLoc=true&docname=c00300437
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6281 - Release Date: 04/28/13
1:24 p.m.
A DA15
conenctor on a CD-ROM drive suggests the old Philips/LMS (Laser
Magnetic Storage) interface. I have the service manual dfor one such
drive used o na PCB) whihch gives the interface pinout.
If that's right, the cambe would be straight-0through, but there are a
couple of differnetial (RS422-like) signals which probabvly should be
twisted pairs. But this doens;'t explain why the thing doesn;'t work
with the cab kit direlctly plugged into the drirve.
I was hoping it was a straight-through cable, but couldn't get it to
work with things I had on hand. Are you sure the drive and controller are working
properly?
No. The drive came with the VAX, which had a dead memory board (now
fixed), an unusable TK50 (replaced) and a dead RD54 (which is still
dead - that's the next thing to try to diagnose).
The controller was bought off of e-pay, so there's no guarantee that
it's functional.
6:42 p.m.
At 04:24 PM 4/29/2013, Tony Duell wrote:
Ah.... Are there any recgnisable ICs o nthe controller and the drive? If
it is a Philis/LMS unit, it's likely that the preamplier is a standard
Philips part and that it would be possible to find the RF test point.
On the KRQ50, the two chips closest to the connector for the cab kit
are AMLS2632PC RS422 quad line receivers. There's an AMLS2630PO RS422
quad line driver chip as well that's nearby. The rest of the board is
either standard QBUS glue logic, a bunch of PALs, and an 80186 CPU with
firmware in a couple of EPROMs. Nothing much to build on. I'm going to
try to trace the cab kit connectors to the 2630/2632 when I get a
chance to see what's happening there.
I haven't touched the drive. That's got to be the place to do any
effective testing.
Apparently the cable is a BC18R-06 if anyone has a pointer to
documentation on such things.
-Rick
I would be suprised it it wasn't a straight-through
cable. If it is the
Philips-type interface, the basic signals are the bitstream from the CD
(after a little processing in the drive, it's up to the controller to
extract the parts it wants), and a serial command/status interface to
select a track, etc.
There's 5 twisted pairs feeding each of the two DA15's in the cab kit.
If I had info on the physical interface (which is apparently called
"LMSI" in a lot of places, including Sound Blaster cards that implement
the interface), I could figure out some potential cabling.
I doubt that an AUI cable wil lwork, as that only
has 8 pins used (4 trissted pairs -- transmit, receive, collison and
power), but as I said, I would think that directly conenctign tyhe drive
to the cab kit should work.
That's what I assumed. The AUI cable was the only thing on hand here
that was already built :)
I've got DA15 shells if I could figure out what needed to be hooked up.
Are you sure the drive and controller are working
properly?
No. The drive came with the VAX, which had a dead memory board (now
fixed), an unusable TK50 (replaced) and a dead RD54 (which is still
dead - that's the next thing to try to diagnose).
The controller was bought off of e-pay, so there's no guarantee that
it's functional.
30 Apr
30 Apr
6:02 a.m.
New subject: BC18R-06 was RE: RRD50 Cable documentation
<http://www.brokerbin.com/members/main.php?loc=partkey&login=ccroxton&parts=
BC18R%2D06+&clm=partclei&mfgfilter=> American Computer Exchange Inc
USA
MI
9 AM - 5 PM GMT
5 PM
248-538-8170
<http://www.brokerbin.com/members/main.php?loc=partkey&login=ccroxton&parts=
BC18R%2D06+&clm=partclei&mfgfilter=> Compurex
USA
MA
8 AM - 6 PM 5 GMT
4 PM
774-227-7400
<http://www.brokerbin.com/members/main.php?loc=partkey&login=ccroxton&parts=
BC18R%2D06+&clm=partclei&mfgfilter=> IGS Systems, Inc/ Match Computer
USA
MA
8 AM - 6 PM 5 GMT
5 PM
508-866-1171
<http://www.brokerbin.com/members/main.php?loc=partkey&login=ccroxton&parts=
BC18R%2D06+&clm=partclei&mfgfilter=> Seacoast Digital Computers, Inc.
USA
NH
9 AM - 5 PM 5 GMT
4 PM
603-642-6222
<http://www.brokerbin.com/members/main.php?loc=partkey&login=ccroxton&parts=
BC18R%2D06+&clm=partclei&mfgfilter=> Varx, Inc
USA
NJ
9 AM - 5 PM 5 GMT
4 PM
856-589-0053
These companies have this exact cable listed, Bobby at IGS is the least
expensive.
Hope that helps.
Cindy Croxton
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3272 / Virus Database: 3162/6282 - Release Date: 04/29/13
7:03 a.m.
New subject: BC18R-06 was RE: RRD50 Cable documentation
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus >
These companies have this exact cable listed, Bobby at
IGS is the least
expensive.
I have bought DEC cables from IGS within the last couple of months and
was satisfied with the transactions.
http://www.decparts.com/
http://myworld.ebay.com/igssystems
-Glen
3:43 p.m.
New subject: BC18R-06 was RE: RRD50 Cable documentation
At 09:02 AM 4/30/2013, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
These companies have this exact cable listed, Bobby at
IGS is the least
expensive.
Hope that helps.
Cindy Croxton
I've looked on the web, and most of those companies either have
outrageous prices (over $100) or can't be bothered to actually list a
price (IGS, for example).
Given the interface info that Tony posted, it's pretty clear that this
is a simple straight-through cable consisting of 5 twisted pairs.
Making my own should be pretty easy.
Thanks,
-Rick
12:59 p.m.
I haven't touched the drive. That's got to be
the place to do any
effective testing.
If it's any help, the drive I have the docs on shows a TDA8808T for the
'photo didoe signal processor' and a TDA8809T for the 'Radial Error
Processor'.If I am reading it right, it looks like the Eye pattern is on
pin 3 of the TDA8808T
-tony
3:50 p.m.
At 03:59 PM 4/30/2013, Tony Duell wrote:
I've opened up the drive. The external interface is to a "Data Path"
module that has a bunch of TTL and one large chip (40 -pin, probably an
8031) with a Phillips logo. I think this is confirmed to be an LMSI
rebrand.
That Data Path board has an AM26LS31PC line driver and an AM26LS32PC
EIA-422 receiver. I'm going to trace the connector pins to figure out
the likely TX/RX pairs.
Thanks for the info.
-Rick
I haven't
touched the drive. That's got to be the place to do any
effective testing.
If it's any help, the drive I have the docs on shows a TDA8808T for the
'photo didoe signal processor' and a TDA8809T for the 'Radial Error
Processor'.If I am reading it right, it looks like the Eye pattern is on
pin 3 of the TDA8808T
1 May
1 May
1:17 p.m.
I've opened up the drive. The external interface
is to a "Data Path"
module that has a bunch of TTL and one large chip (40 -pin, probably an
8031) with a Phillips logo. I think this is confirmed to be an LMSI
rebrand.
I would not bet on it being an 8031, for several reasons.
The trivial one is that if it was from taht series, it would be more
likely to be an 8051 with an internal ROM.
But amazingly, Philips used 6805-series micrcontrollers in some CD-ROM
drives (and CD players). I have no idea why, but they did.
And the CD-ROM drive I mentioned has a 40 pin IC numbered PCF1801BP in
the data circuit. This is not a microcontroller, it's a mask-programmed
ULA which extracts the wanted data from the stram at the output of the
SAA7310 I suspect the chip in your drive is soemthing similar.
For the record, 3 of the RS422 drivers are drive by that IC. Pin 32 is
the clock output, it's inverted 3 times byy 4001 NOR gates (probably also
to delay it a bit). Pin 27 is the data output. nd pin 33 is Attention.
-tony
4:15 p.m.
At 04:17 PM 5/1/2013, Tony Duell wrote:
There's two ROMs on the board, and the only recognizable number on that
40-pin chip is that "8031". However, you may be right - week 31 of 1980
isn't unreasonable. And this is just the external interface card.
I've
opened up the drive. The external interface is to a "Data Path"
module that has a bunch of TTL and one large chip (40 -pin,
probably an
8031) with a Phillips logo. I think this is
confirmed to be an LMSI
rebrand.
I would not bet on it being an 8031, for several reasons.
The trivial one is that if it was from taht series, it would be more
likely to be an 8051 with an internal ROM. But amazingly, Philips used 6805-series micrcontrollers
in some CD-ROM
drives (and CD players). I have no idea why, but they did.
And the CD-ROM drive I mentioned has a 40 pin IC numbered PCF1801BP in
the data circuit. This is not a microcontroller, it's a mask-programmed
ULA which extracts the wanted data from the stram at the output of the
SAA7310 I suspect the chip in your drive is soemthing similar.
For the record, 3 of the RS422 drivers are drive by that IC. Pin 32 is
the clock output, it's inverted 3 times byy 4001 NOR gates (probably also
to delay it a bit). Pin 27 is the data output. nd pin 33 is Attention.
I've reassembled the drive as I'm about to build a cable. It's clear
that it's a simple pin-for-pin twisted pair for the first five pairs on
the DA15. Tracing the connector on the drive shows me drivers on pins
1/9, 3/11, 4/12, 5/13 and receiver on pins 2/10. Tracing the
controller shows a receiver on 1/9, 3/11, 4/12, 5/13 and a driver on
2/10. It would take a rather evil engineer to mix those pairs up.
-Rick
2 May
2 May
11 a.m.
At 04:17 PM 5/1/2013, Tony Duell wrote:
There's two ROMs on the board, and the only recognizable number on that
Ah, that you didn't mention...
I've
opened up the drive. The external interface is to a "Data Path"
module that has a bunch of TTL and one large chip (40 -pin,
probably an
8031) with a Phillips logo. I think this is
confirmed to be an LMSI
rebrand.
I would not bet on it being an 8031, for several reasons.
The trivial one is that if it was from taht series, it would be more
likely to be an 8051 with an internal ROM. 40-pin chip is that "8031". However, you may
be right - week 31 of 1980
isn't unreasonable. And this is just the external interface card.
Actually, 1980 would be far too early for a CD-ROM drive, surely?
I've reassembled the drive as I'm about to
build a cable. It's clear
that it's a simple pin-for-pin twisted pair for the first five pairs on
the DA15. Tracing the connector on the drive shows me drivers on pins
1/9, 3/11, 4/12, 5/13 and receiver on pins 2/10. Tracing the
controller shows a receiver on 1/9, 3/11, 4/12, 5/13 and a driver on
2/10. It would take a rather evil engineer to mix those pairs up.
Certainly the exernal PC Philips/LMSI drive uses a straight-wired cable.
As well as the signal pairs, there may be a signal ground pin. I think
Philips used pin 8 for this. IF so, that should be linked as well.
-tony
12:13 p.m.
New subject: [cctalk] Re: RRD50 Cable documentation
On 05/02/2013 02:00 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
The 8031 has no internal program ROM, so the copyright date will be
for the processor, not the ROM contents, and 1980 is exactly the right
year for an 8031.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
40-pin chip is
that "8031". However, you may be right - week 31 of 1980
isn't unreasonable. And this is just the external interface card.
Actually, 1980 would be far too early for a CD-ROM drive, surely?
3 May
3 May
2:11 p.m.
New subject: [cctalk] Re: RRD50 Cable documentation
On 05/02/2013 02:00 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
The 8031 has no internal program ROM, so the copyright date will be
for the processor, not the ROM contents, and 1980 is exactly the right
year for an 8031.
Sure. But if it's an 8031 (which, given the extra infroamtion now looks
likely), teh '8031' number could eb the part number, not a date code.
If the IC was a custom CD-ROM data extractor-thingy (as in the drive I
have the docs on), then it would surely have been made a lot later than
1980.
-tony
40-pin
chip is that "8031". However, you may be right - week 31 of 1980
isn't unreasonable. And this is just the external interface card.
Actually, 1980 would be far too early for a CD-ROM drive, surely?
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