7 Oct
2005
7 Oct
'05
9:06 p.m.
Oh great almighty screaming gort! Some major HP gear with 'buy it now'
prices...
Items
8702744737
8702428795
5244771878
8 Oct
8 Oct
8:12 a.m.
Items 8702744737, 8702428795, 5244771878
The great news is that Gold Snipper may have "evolved" to the point
where here he is neither snipping nor parting out some seriously great
gold equipment. The HP boards of that era were real showpieces.
I have one board from one of these computers
( as with http://gold-snipper.com/ebay/hp21s_6a.jpg ) and it is ridiculously
over-engineered, IE gilded.
Slight bad news that he's set so high a price. Let's hope some lurkers here
can affort this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8702744737
John A.
no affiliation with, etc...
8:56 a.m.
The great news is that Gold Snipper may have
"evolved" to the point
where here he is neither snipping nor parting out some seriously great
gold equipment.
I've met him, and he doesn't seem the kind to destroy rare stuff. Now if
he's got a bunch of something, maybe. He seems willing to store stuff for
a *long* time, waiting for a buyer.
I have one board from one of these computers
( as with http://gold-snipper.com/ebay/hp21s_6a.jpg ) and it is
ridiculously
over-engineered, IE gilded.
Slight bad news that he's set so high a price. Let's hope some lurkers
here
can affort this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8702744737
Well, I suppose it is reasonable for him to ask for something over scrap
:-).
(Are there 6 ounces of gold in there? I wouldn't think anywhere near it,
but maybe they overdid it on the gilding :-).)
Vince
12:18 p.m.
It was written....
The great news is that Gold Snipper may have
"evolved" to the point
where here he is neither snipping nor parting out some seriously great
gold equipment.
There's been at least one discussion of GoldSnipper here
before. I think his
prices are unrealistic. However, I am very glad to see him put stuff up for
sale at least. Not often one sees an FPU available. This is a good thing I'd
say.
This does bring up a question I've been wondering as to the mindset of a
scrapper/surplus dealer (in general, not a specific one), perhaps someone
here can posit an explanation. I've seen a fair number of situations where a
dealer/scrapper offers an item (not necessarily on ebay) for a price far
above the going price. You offer them an amount above going prices, and far
above scrap value... but even that is significantly less than their initial
price. They refuse, and the item goes to the melting pot. I know for a fact
that they are getting much less money in the melting pot than I was
offering. I've seen this more than just once or twice. If I was in their
position, I'd take double the melting pot money. I don't get it.
The HP boards of that era were real showpieces.
I have one board from one of these computers
( as with http://gold-snipper.com/ebay/hp21s_6a.jpg ) and it is
ridiculously
over-engineered, IE gilded.
I've mentioned this a time or two before on the
list ;)
Slight bad news that he's set so high a price.
Let's hope some lurkers
here
can affort this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8702744737
cpu set includes
DMA option, and the terminator board. No telling what
firmware is installed. Full boat of memory (64k). Appears to be in overall
very nice condition (GOD I love using that front panel). I'd be concerned
about the backplane if it's missing the cover (can't tell if it's missing or
just removed for the picture). Hope someone saves it, but even though it
looks to be a really nice one, that's a pretty steep price.
Jay West
2:27 p.m.
This does bring up a question I've been wondering
as to the mindset of a
scrapper/surplus dealer (in general, not a specific one), perhaps someone
here can posit an explanation. I've seen a fair number of situations where a
dealer/scrapper offers an item (not necessarily on ebay) for a price far
above the going price. You offer them an amount above going prices, and far
above scrap value... but even that is significantly less than their initial
price. They refuse, and the item goes to the melting pot. I know for a fact
that they are getting much less money in the melting pot than I was
offering. I've seen this more than just once or twice. If I was in their
position, I'd take double the melting pot money. I don't get it.
One reason is that the "melting pot" is such an easy, established
solution. These days, with the enviroNazis out there, most scrapmen really
do not want to deal with people they do not know that well, for fear of a
problem down the road (and in some cases, the problem has been years down
the road). Sending the scrap off to China is very easy, and frankly,
environmental restrictions on shipping things kind of go away when the
scrap is set to leave the country. Plus, the Chinese do pay well.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
2:44 p.m.
On 10/8/2005 at 5:27 PM William Donzelli wrote:
Sending the scrap off to China is very easy, and
frankly,
environmental restrictions on shipping things kind of go away when the
scrap is set to leave the country. Plus, the Chinese do pay well.
It's funny that a lot of so-called "green" electronics recycling centers get
very quiet when you ask them where they send their PCB's for processing. It's not
uncommon for rural communites in China to extract components from PCB's by an
unprotected low-wage worker heating the boards in the open over a charcoal fire. After
the components have been separated, the bare boards are simply taken to the town dump.
Reminds me of Taiwan not so very long ago. Used wire was sent there for copper
relcamation. The method of removing the insulation (usually PVC) was burning in the open
air.
As countries ascend the economic ladder, they are reluctant to process another's toxic
waste. I suspect we'll eventually end up shipping electronic trash to Africa for
processing.
Cheers,
Chuck
5:42 p.m.
It's funny that a lot of so-called
"green" electronics recycling
centers get very quiet when you ask them where they send their PCB's
for processing. It's not uncommon for rural communites in China to
extract components from PCB's by an unprotected low-wage worker
heating the boards in the open over a charcoal fire. After the
components have been separated, the bare boards are simply taken to
the town dump.
This is not really the case anymore - the Chinese have really cleaned up
their act, not so much for environmental reasons, but because they can
make more money due to better yields.
The unprotected low-wage workers are still mostly unprotected, but they
are very willing. They tend to be young men, as it is a common way for
them to make their dowry money. Most are now employed taking apart
assemblies piece by piece (they will, for example, unwind motors and
transformers), with the nasty refining being done using modern machines.
Reminds me of Taiwan not so very long ago. Used wire
was sent there
for copper relcamation. The method of removing the insulation
(usually PVC) was burning in the open air.
Very wrong. Just about everyone these days, including the Chinese, use
shredders with a water float tank to skim off the insulation. It is very
cheap and the metal recovery approaches 100 percent. The burning method,
used 20 or 30 years ago, wastes a huge amount of the metal to oxidation.
Be careful what you read these days - there is a lot of untruths about the
recycling industry overseas, with most of the views based on what was
happening 20 years ago.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
6:04 p.m.
On 10/8/2005 at 8:42 PM William Donzelli wrote:
This is not really the case anymore - the Chinese have
really cleaned up
their act, not so much for environmental reasons, but because they can
make more money due to better yields.
Hmmm, seems that I read about this earlier this year in IEEE Spectrum, a source that's
usually pretty reliable...
Cheers,
Chuck
6:36 p.m.
On 10/8/2005 at 8:42 PM William Donzelli wrote:
This is not really the case anymore - the Chinese have
really cleaned up
their act, not so much for environmental reasons, but because they can
make more money due to better yields.
Hmmm, according to this People's Daily article, the hazardous practices are still
going on:
http://english.people.com.cn/200505/24/eng20050524_186536.html
...and while importing of electronics scrap to China was supposedly banned in November
2004, Xinhua says that it's just gone underground:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-08/15/content_3354367.htm
Cheers,
Chuck
6:43 p.m.
Hmmm, according to this People's Daily article,
the hazardous
practices are still going on:
There probably are a few places still doing things the old way. Big deal.
...and while importing of electronics scrap to China
was supposedly
banned in November 2004, Xinhua says that it's just gone underground:
Think about it - if the scrap trade to China stopped in 2004, their
economy would have completely died by now. That is the furthest thing
from the truth.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
7:57 p.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
On 10/8/2005 at 9:43 PM William Donzelli wrote:
The problem to me is that we just don't know how big a deal it is. IP piracy (music,
movies, software, designer fashions) is also something that the Chinese government has
come out against (and they periodically crack down on some group or another for show).
Yet how big would you say that the pirate software or music business is in China? I
don't know--I doubt that anyone has a really accurate figure--but it's not
negligible. Illegal, yes.
So when the official party organ of the PRC comes out this year and says that there's
still a problem, how big is it?
I don't know, but I suspect that it's not negligible.
Cheers,
Chuck
Hmmm,
according to this People's Daily article, the hazardous
practices are still going on:
There probably are a few places still doing things the old way. Big deal. 
9 Oct
9 Oct
1:03 p.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Whatever the case, we have enough problems to solve domestically that we
shouldn't concern ourselves with what's going on 8,000 miles away.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
There probably
are a few places still doing things the old way. Big
deal.
The problem to me is that we just don't know how big a deal it is. IP
piracy (music, movies, software, designer fashions) is also something
that the Chinese government has come out against (and they periodically
crack down on some group or another for show). Yet how big would you say
that the pirate software or music business is in China? I don't know--I
doubt that anyone has a really accurate figure--but it's not negligible.
Illegal, yes.
So when the official party organ of the PRC comes out this year and says
that there's still a problem, how big is it?
I don't know, but I suspect that it's not negligible.
2:08 p.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
On 10/9/2005 at 1:03 PM Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Whatever the case, we have enough problems to solve
domestically that we
shouldn't concern ourselves with what's going on 8,000 miles away.
...and neither should we export our problems to far-flung lands. :)
Cheers,
Chuck
2:15 p.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10/9/2005 at 1:03 PM Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
If they didn't want it, they wouldn't be taking it in at the rate of
thousands of tons per day ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Whatever the case, we have enough problems to
solve domestically that we
shouldn't concern ourselves with what's going on 8,000 miles away.
...and neither should we export our problems to far-flung lands. :) 
10 Oct
10 Oct
6:39 a.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
At 02:08 PM 10/9/05 -0700, you wrote:
On 10/9/2005 at 1:03 PM Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
>Whatever the case, we have enough problems to solve domestically that we
>shouldn't concern ourselves with what's going on 8,000 miles away.
If only it would stay 8,000 miles away! EVERY lake here in Florida is
polluted with mercury. Even ones that have no industry or settlements
around them. They finally traced the source to China! It seems that their
open burning has dumped so much mercury in the atmosphere that enough of it
is settling in the lakes here to be a serious health concern.
Joe
1:48 p.m.
New subject: Electronics recycling, was HP 1000/2000 cache on ePay
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Joe R. wrote:
At 02:08 PM 10/9/05 -0700, you wrote:
Sounds like a Global Warming-esque theory to me.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
On 10/9/2005 at 1:03 PM Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
>Whatever the case, we have enough problems to solve domestically that we
>shouldn't concern ourselves with what's going on 8,000 miles away.
If only it would stay 8,000 miles away! EVERY lake here in Florida is
polluted with mercury. Even ones that have no industry or settlements
around them. They finally traced the source to China! It seems that their
open burning has dumped so much mercury in the atmosphere that enough of it
is settling in the lakes here to be a serious health concern.
8 Oct
8 Oct
6:38 p.m.
Hmmm, seems that I read about this earlier this year
in IEEE Spectrum,
a source that's usually pretty reliable...
Even the New York Times sometimes has crappy reporting.
China and Taiwan are not the backwards third world countries they used to
be.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
2:34 p.m.
Jay West wrote:
This does bring up a question I've been wondering
as to the mindset of a
scrapper/surplus dealer (in general, not a specific one), perhaps
someone here can posit an explanation. I've seen a fair number of
situations where a dealer/scrapper offers an item (not necessarily on
ebay) for a price far above the going price. You offer them an amount
above going prices, and far above scrap value... but even that is
significantly less than their initial price. They refuse, and the item
goes to the melting pot. I know for a fact that they are getting much
less money in the melting pot than I was offering.
Yep, I've known it to happen more than once too. My theory is that the
mindset of the scrapper is that they know their own business whilst we
don't, so to them either their idea of fair value is right, or the item
is totally worthless and so their best bet is to destroy it for scrap
value.
Trying to offer them more than scrap value but less than their idea of
fair price goes in one ear and out the other, even when the price you
offer them would be more than they'd get otherwise.
I believe my local scrapper/recycler back home has some sort of deal
with his preferred scrappers (who take metal, boards with gold on,
plastics etc.) whereby they only pick up a load once a month. Presumably
the scrapper/recycler holds out until the very last second hoping that
someone will be silly enough to pay their prices for an item, and when
that doesn't happen they have a very short space of time in which to
break it for bits to make that month's outgoing junk shipment.
Sad state of affairs, really. Same thing happens with junkyards though I
guess - to the owners they're just moving metal around, with no care as
to what exactly the items are.
cheers
Jules
9 Oct
9 Oct
noon
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, Jay West wrote:
This does bring up a question I've been wondering
as to the mindset of a
scrapper/surplus dealer (in general, not a specific one), perhaps someone
here can posit an explanation. I've seen a fair number of situations where a
dealer/scrapper offers an item (not necessarily on ebay) for a price far
above the going price. You offer them an amount above going prices, and far
above scrap value... but even that is significantly less than their initial
price. They refuse, and the item goes to the melting pot. I know for a fact
that they are getting much less money in the melting pot than I was
offering. I've seen this more than just once or twice. If I was in their
position, I'd take double the melting pot money. I don't get it.
It's a psychological thing. They need to maintain control over what they
ask and get for the stuff they sell or else their customers start to cause
them more time and trouble than they care to deal with. There's no
emotion in it for them, just dollar signs. If you pay what they want then
all is well. If not, they send the stuff off to the smelter and the next
load of crap comes in, just like last week, and just like next week.
Not saying it's good or bad either way, just that you need to understand
the scrapman and he'll become your best friend. Some are cool, some are
dicks.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5 Nov
5 Nov
6:49 a.m.
I purchesed the HP 1000 F-series computer and floatingpoint processor from
eBay.
The equipment arrived on 10/31, very well packaged in a single large box.
Sheet foam insulation had been
carefully cut to size, enclosing the processor boxes and accessories. The
condition of the equipment was
very good, no shipping dammage what so ever.
The front panel was in perfect shape, no broken keys, etc.
The machine was very complete, and the seller included the power controller
cable that runs between the
CPU and FPU, as well as the ribbon cable for the micro-programmed peripheral
port.
After some careful investigation and documentation of the machines
configuration, I discovered that the
memory system had been messed up (the seller had described this). After
some initial checkout, I fired
up the CPU and verifed that it (correctly) failed the power-on self test
diagnostics due to the misconfigured
memory system.
I added two high-speed memory array boards from a 2113 E-series, reset some
jumpers and the machine
passed power-on self test, the DMS, SIS, FFP, and hardware floating point
mircocode diagnostics.
I currently have 256K of fault control memory installed, but I'll probably
upgrade this soon.
I did have to asjust the locking bar on the front panel, and there is a
little cosmetic work to do, and of course
I'll have to set up the machines I/O configuration to my liking. I'll be
upgrading one of my 2113 rack mounted
systems with the F-series machine after I complete the cosmetic work and
evaulate a fan or two that seems
to be a little louder than it should be.
Overall I'm delighted with the machine, and I think I paid a very reasonable
price. Yet another smooth deal
from eBay, and at long last I have the F-series machine
I've been looking
for for over 15 years.
I highly reccomend buying vintage gear from Finlay McMartin, who sells under
the name "gold-snipper".
He understands what he's selling, and does a great job.
6986
days inactive
7014
days old
19 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
allain＠panix.com -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
oldgeek＠thegeekslair.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
vrs＠msn.com