17 Apr
2001
17 Apr
'01
4:58 p.m.
I am sad to hear about this, especially for you
personally as well as for
the
business loss. Is there any hardware that you need but
now can't get?
Are there any RT-11 problems that I could help with? Sorry - I would
not be of any help with RSX/RSTS/VMS.
At the moment things are basically under control. I had a system in my van
that was to heavy to unload by myself and I had 5 pallets of equipment
waiting to be picked up at a local friends place that has a nice loading
dock. Thankfully the kids are all grown and moved out of the house so I
have taken over half the house while the mess gets cleaned up and a steel
building put up.
Can you at least describe the overall probable contents of the CD and
also tell us if the contents are based on availability or because Mentec
did not want the omitted distributions on the CD? Namely, if the omitted
items became "available", could they be included? While the actual
distribution versions would be the best indication, a simple statement
that there will be RT-11 distributions would help as well. And are
the layered products being considered like FORTRAN and BASIC?
There are many different distributions and IIRC some layered products. I
have not looked closely at the RT11 stuff for a while. ( My background is
RSX11M+)
Also, will the CD be set up as Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD
with DOS/W95/W98 files at the beginning and RT-11 partitions with
duplicates at the end? Or all DOS or all RT-11. Note that for DOS,
the first 64 blocks of partition zero in RT-11 are not available with the
raw SCSI media. With the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa,
this is not a problem, but could be if ONLY RT-11 partitions are
on the CD. For example, PUTR from John Wilson probably can't
read the first 64 blocks of partition zero under DOS if it had been
an RT-11 partition. Note that there are a number of ways around
this problem under DOS, but they are unnecessary if RT-11 partition
zero is devoted to DOS files.
I have had several thoughts on that and it will depend on time. It will be
DOS, etc. readable.
Hopefully, this was not the trickle situation and these
posts on classiccmp
are the best way and do not involve Mentec in any manner.
I only jumped in because I did not want a bunch of people calling Mentec
about it now. I am waiting for something and hope it will be here before I
get tied up on service calls for the next 2 weeks.
Can you use any help? Have you a new target date at this point? Any
information would be helpful since probably most of us were not aware
it was even being considered. In fact, can you take a few minutes and
describe what is being considered?
It is basically finalized but I don't want to have people rock the boat and
be calling wanting this and that added. It has been enough trouble to get
it to this point and everyone agreeable on its current contents. I have
wanted to include things but it will not be another DECUS type distribution.
The goodies like Al Baldwin's TCP package will not be on it. ( I tried but
things were to cast in stone when I got involved)
I would certainly be willing to help with anything that I could do at my
end.
I have both real PDP-11 Qbus hardware available with a
SCSI host adapter
with both SCSI hard drives and Sony SMO S501 magneto optical drives
and a number of 5 1/4" disks which hold about 295 MBytes per side
(about 8.75 RT-11 partitions). I also have available a PC which can
run RT-11 under the Supnik emulator along with PUTR from John Wilson.
Thanks but I have already gotten up 2)11/73's, an 11/84, M11, all with SCSI
disk and tape. I have a couple 11/84's, 11/44's that will be up when time
permits. These are all also on the network with the PC's and a 4100.
Remember I make a large part of my living supporting customers that are
running this hardware.
Dan
17 Apr
17 Apr
6:20 p.m.
Daniel T. Burrows wrote:
At the moment things are basically under control. I
had a system in my van
that was to heavy to unload by myself and I had 5 pallets of equipment
waiting to be picked up at a local friends place that has a nice loading
dock. Thankfully the kids are all grown and moved out of the house so I
have taken over half the house while the mess gets cleaned up and a steel
building put up.
Jerome Fine replies:
It sounds simple, but I understand what a mess you are probably in - good luck.
There are many different distributions and IIRC some
layered products. I
have not looked closely at the RT11 stuff for a while. ( My background is
RSX11M+)
This sounds like you have at least one version of RT-11 that is from V5.0x.
If so and it is equal or later than the V5.03 that is on the internet, this is great
news. If not, then at least is sounds like real PDP-11 hardware will be allowed.
One question - if a later version that is not on the CD is available to that hobby
user, will it be legal to use it was well? i.e. is the CD the last word on which
versions are acceptable? Or is it just a sample of what is allowed and the
CD will be available so Mentec will not be bothered by hobby users looking
for the latest distribution?
Also, will the
CD be set up as Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD
with DOS/W95/W98 files at the beginning and RT-11 partitions with
duplicates at the end? Or all DOS or all RT-11. Note that for DOS,
the first 64 blocks of partition zero in RT-11 are not available with the
raw SCSI media. With the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa,
this is not a problem, but could be if ONLY RT-11 partitions are
on the CD. For example, PUTR from John Wilson probably can't
read the first 64 blocks of partition zero under DOS if it had been
an RT-11 partition. Note that there are a number of ways around
this problem under DOS, but they are unnecessary if RT-11 partition
zero is devoted to DOS files.
I have had several thoughts on that and it will
depend on time. It will be
DOS, etc. readable. Hopefully, this
was not the trickle situation and these posts on classiccmp
are the best way and do not involve Mentec in any manner.
I only jumped in because
I did not want a bunch of people calling Mentec
about it now. I am waiting for something and hope it will be here before I
get tied up on service calls for the next 2 weeks. Can you use any
help? Have you a new target date at this point? Any
information would be helpful since probably most of us were not aware
it was even being considered. In fact, can you take a few minutes and
describe what is being considered?
It is basically finalized but I don't want
to have people rock the boat and
be calling wanting this and that added. It has been enough trouble to get
it to this point and everyone agreeable on its current contents. I have
wanted to include things but it will not be another DECUS type distribution.
The goodies like Al Baldwin's TCP package will not be on it. ( I tried but
things were to cast in stone when I got involved) Thanks but I have already gotten up 2)11/73's, an
11/84, M11, all with SCSI
disk and tape. I have a couple 11/84's, 11/44's that will be up when time
permits. These are all also on the network with the PC's and a 4100.
Remember I make a large part of my living supporting customers that are
running this hardware.
That part I understand. Perhaps when you have some time, you could provide
some help and advise us on how to transfer a SCSI hard drive that has ONLY
RT-11 partitions to a CDROM which can then be read on both a PC (except
for the first 64 blocks on partition zero) and a real PDP-11. I would like to
create an archive that is both inexpensive and long lasting.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
7:05 p.m.
If you look at what Tim Shoppa did with the RT-11
Freeware CD, that
seems like a good model. The files were duplicated in both the DOS
and RT-11 portions. The RT-11 portions were set up as RT-11 partitions
which can be read on a PC, along with the DOS files. I don't have a
CDROM on the real PDP-11 hardware that is compatible with the
Qbus host adapter, so I can't comment on what a real PDP-11 sees, but
I presume that others have done so.
I think an important question would be, is this worth the additional effort
it would take someone to put together? Or to put it another way, are there
any hobbyists besides myself with a CD-ROM on thier main PDP-11? I know
you've tried unsuccessfully to get a CD-ROM drive that will work with your
SCSI controller. Which brings up another interesting point, how many
Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers?
Zane
7:46 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec?
Which brings up another interesting point, how many
Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers?
...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a 'pure'
PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages.
Lee Courtney
President
Monterey Software Group Inc.
1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J
Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A.
650-964-7052 voice
650-964-6735 fax
Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for
HP3000 Business Servers
http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of healyzh(a)aracnet.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:05 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec?
If you look at what Tim Shoppa did with the RT-11
Freeware CD, that
seems like a good model. The files were duplicated in both the DOS
and RT-11 portions. The RT-11 portions were set up as RT-11 partitions
which can be read on a PC, along with the DOS files. I don't have a
CDROM on the real PDP-11 hardware that is compatible with the
Qbus host adapter, so I can't comment on what a real PDP-11 sees, but
I presume that others have done so.
I think an important question would be, is this worth the
additional effort
it would take someone to put together? Or to put it another way,
are there
any hobbyists besides myself with a CD-ROM on thier main PDP-11? I know
you've tried unsuccessfully to get a CD-ROM drive that will work with your
SCSI controller. Which brings up another interesting point, how many
Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers?
Zane
18 Apr
18 Apr
6:11 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec?
--- Lee Courtney <leec(a)slip.net> wrote:
If I had it, I'd use it. I only have Qbus MFM (RQDX1, RQDX3), SDI (KDA-50),
and Systems Industry proprietary (SI9900) controllers. I don't even have
an ESDI or SMD controller (but I do have a pile of ESDI and SMD drives).
It's been a big drawback when attempting to play with a real OS on real
hardware (as opposed to emulation). I have a couple RD54 drives a few
RD53 drives, a couple RA81s, a couple of RA70s and lots of <1Gb SCSI
disks (and <150Mb MFM ;-)
I always wanted to run 2.9BSD on something real (had the tapes since 1987).
Never had the right combination of CPU, controller and disk to make it
work (except for playing with a dual RL02 setup - it loaded, but there was
no room to do anything). I did dump the tapes to image files and emulate
the whole shebang on my first SPARC1 in 1994 - ISTR it ran about 30% of
real speed.
Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be
interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot.
-ethan
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Which brings
up another interesting point, how many
Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers?
...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a 'pure'
PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. 
9:18 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec?
I am. Using an Unibus SCSI card with 2 jaz drives and one ZIP drive.
Ed
Quoting Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com>om>:
--- Lee Courtney <leec(a)slip.net> wrote:
'pure'
Which
brings up another interesting point, how many
Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers?
...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a PDP-11, it does offer some significant
advantages.
If I had it, I'd use it. I only have Qbus MFM (RQDX1, RQDX3), SDI
(KDA-50),
and Systems Industry proprietary (SI9900) controllers. I don't even have
an ESDI or SMD controller (but I do have a pile of ESDI and SMD drives).
It's been a big drawback when attempting to play with a real OS on real
hardware (as opposed to emulation). I have a couple RD54 drives a few
RD53 drives, a couple RA81s, a couple of RA70s and lots of <1Gb SCSI
disks (and <150Mb MFM ;-)
I always wanted to run 2.9BSD on something real (had the tapes since 1987).
Never had the right combination of CPU, controller and disk to make it
work (except for playing with a dual RL02 setup - it loaded, but there was
no room to do anything). I did dump the tapes to image files and emulate
the whole shebang on my first SPARC1 in 1994 - ISTR it ran about 30% of
real speed.
Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be
interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot.
-ethan
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
8477
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8478
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5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
dburrows＠netpath.net -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jhfine＠idirect.com -
leec＠slip.net -
quapla＠xs4all.nl