16 Jan
2002
16 Jan
'02
1:23 a.m.
Indeed, the 68000 and 68010 pushed the same amount of data onto the stack,
but the 68010 produced more different types of stack-frames than the 68000.
If you wanted to speed up the ATARI-ST you could replace the 68000 with an
68010, but you needed to patch TOS. Otherwise the O.S. crashed.
Nice was the fact that the 68000 and the 68010 are *pin-compatible*.
I know, because my StarShip first ran on a 6802, then a 68000 and then on
a 68010. I had to re-write a small part of the embedded OS that handles the
stack-frame processing. Tight-loops (2 instruction) are cached.
[My StarShip runs on a 68020 at 30 MHz. now]
- Henk.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com]
Sent: dinsdag 15 januari 2002 21:20
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: 68010 (was Re: Mac IIci)
--- Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> wrote:
On Jan 14, 14:56, Bruce Robertson wrote:
> Yes, I seem to remember that with the 68000, there was an
interaction
> with the Bus Fault signal... something to do
with what
state got saved
> on the stack; I don't remember the exact
details
After a bus fault, there was not enough information on the stack to
properly do an instruction restart from where the bus-fault occured.
Oops, I forgot about that. You're right; the
68010 saves
slightly more
state on the stack than the early 68000. I have
a feeling
that was fixed
in later 68000; some traps save more state than
others.
Not as far as I know... the quantity of bytes pushed on the
stack should
be constant for a given member of the 68K family. A lot of
older software
for the Amiga that did things with the stack (debugging
tools, mostly)
assumed certain things relating to the stack - it became confused on
the '010 and up because the number of bytes did change for certain
traps (like bus error). I have the details at home, not with
me, in my
Motorola books, or I'd post them here. Eventually, people learned to
ask the OS what was going on, rather than paw through the stack
indescriminantly, kinda like when people got burned on the
first Fatter
Agnus Amigas - 1Mb of CHIP and 0Mb of FAST RAM - broke all kinds of
software that asked for a buffer of FAST RAM instead of
"fastest available
RAM".
You can't get 68010s any more, unless you can
find old
stock somewhere
:-(
You can still get 68000s and 68020s.
That's not surprising. Even when they were current, we had a
hard time
getting 68010 chips for our products. We paid $45 each for them at a
time when the 68000P8 was about $3 (eventually, I found them at a
surplus/overstock electronics dealer for $10).
At the moment, I have dozens of 68000L8s and one tube of 68010P10s. I
hope I never have to look for any more 68010s.
-ethan
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16 Jan
16 Jan
7:44 a.m.
--- Gooijen H <GOOI(a)oce.nl> wrote:
Indeed, the 68000 and 68010 pushed the same amount of
data onto the
stack, but the 68010 produced more different types of stack-frames than
the 68000.
I suppose it's all a matter of semantics - different stack frames vs.
different amounts of bytes pushed on a bus error... I'd quote chapter
and verse, but I forgot to dig out my 68K manuals last night.
If you wanted to speed up the ATARI-ST you could
replace the 68000 with
an 68010, but you needed to patch TOS. Otherwise the O.S. crashed.
Same for the Amiga, except no patch required for Kickstart/AmigaDOS 1.2
and up (I forget about 1.0 or 1.1). The one way to prove you had a
68010 in your Amiga was to run the old calc program - it did a MOVEcc
instruction which is privved on the 68010. There was an optional
patch that would intercept that trap and emulate the instruction, but
since you weren't supposed to execute that instruction directly (there
was an approved way of doing it), the patch wasn't required for ordinary
operation.
Nice was the fact that the 68000 and the 68010 are
*pin-compatible*.
Yep. We got to reuse all of our expensive 68000 diagnostic hardware
when we made a 68010 design (building a pin-swabber for our one and
only 68008 design was a pain and some stuff didn't work right, but
it was good enough for the task at hand).
I know, because my StarShip first ran on a 6802, then
a 68000 and then on
a 68010.
Cool.
I had to re-write a small part of the embedded OS that
handles
the stack-frame processing. Tight-loops (2 instruction) are cached.
Yep.
[My StarShip runs on a 68020 at 30 MHz. now]
Nice. That'd be cool to see in person. I have been kicking around
a similar project since 1987 - mine was two seats, more like a Space
Shuttle flight sim, made from scrapped DEC RK05 shells (the innards had
been cleaned out by me for spares at work, at direction of my boss).
The guts of what I had finished were two 9" PETs for display, and a
single 12" 80-col PET. Nice stuff, but I ended up putting the PET guts
back in the PETs. They became too useful to squirrel away in a sim
cabinet. These days, I'd use commodity hardware. Still have the
shells - but they are dismantled and stacked in the attic. :-(
-ethan
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9:21 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips
and Intel
chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell 15
pin (like a
Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back.
Just did a Google search on 'Bridge Communications." Had several hits that had
absolutely
nothing to do with computers and electronics, more at the health industry.
Andway, any
info about this card appreciated.
I guess I could through in into an old AT system and see what it does. There
are a few jumpers
marked 'int' and 'address' that might be worth finding out about before
running a "smoke" test.
My guess is that it is some sort of CPU board, but what?
Eric
16 Sep
16 Sep
10:50 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
Eric,
If I remember correctly, that was a CSU for a T1 line, besides the 15pin
AUI connector on it, does it have an RJ45 type port on it that says NI on it
or another AUI port, as it may be a DDS56K CSU or an old Network Bridge
between two vlans.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Chomko" <vze2wsvr(a)verizon.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128
EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM
chips
and Intel
chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors
and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell
15
pin (like a
Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back.
Just did a Google search on 'Bridge Communications." Had several hits that
had
absolutely
nothing to do with computers and electronics, more at the health industry.
Andway, any
info about this card appreciated.
I guess I could through in into an old AT system and see what it does.
There
are a few jumpers
marked 'int' and 'address' that might be worth finding out about before
running a "smoke" test.
My guess is that it is some sort of CPU board, but what?
Eric
16 Jan
16 Jan
9:44 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these words:
It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128
EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips
and Intel
chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
[snippety]
Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which
one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but
pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board...
Hope this helps,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig.
(circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on
their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within?
10:12 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
Thanks for the suggestion.
Also, on the 27128 chips are:
looks to be either PIMMON or P1MMON 8-F, also 36-0004-16 and 36-0004-17
Eric
Roger Merchberger wrote:
Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these
words:
It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128
EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips
and Intel
chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
[snippety]
Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which
one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but
pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the board...
Hope this helps,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig.
(circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on
their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within? 
11:21 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
board...
Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these
words:
>It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM
chips
>and Intel
>chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors
and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
[snippety]
Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which
one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but
pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the
Hope this helps,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig.
(circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on
their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within?
11:24 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
I once had a Bridge Communcations board that had a 68K in a PGA and a 68121
(48-pin DIP) and a bunch of really fast PISO and SIPO logic including some
FIFO's. I never learned what it was for, since the only reason I wanted it
(it was already scrap) was for the parts. I was able to use the FIFO's and a
few of the other parts, plus some of the sockets, for a kludge job, but I
think I still have the two CPU's lying about.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
board...
Rumor has it that Eric Chomko may have mentioned these
words:
>It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128 EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM
chips
>and Intel
>chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors
and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
[snippety]
Never had one, but it sounds like it could be an OS-9/68K board, with which
one could run a version of OS-9 on. Dunno if docs would be around, but
pinging the newsgroup comp.os.os9 might get you a lead or two on the
Hope this helps,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an *older* .sig.
(circa 1997!) Why does Hershey's put nutritional information on
their candy bar wrappers when there's no nutritional value within?
10:09 a.m.
New subject: trying to identify this 68K-based board...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Eric Chomko wrote:
It is an ISA-16 card. It has a 68000, w/2 27128
EEPROMs, 16 1259-15 RAM chips
and Intel
chips, 82586 and 8253-5. The rest looks to be TTL, a couple of connectors and
couple of
crystals, 16 and 20 MHz.
It was made by Bridge Communications, USA, in 1987. And it has a D-shell 15
pin (like a
Mac video -2 rows of pins) female connector on the back.
Just did a Google search on 'Bridge Communications." Had several hits that had
absolutely
nothing to do with computers and electronics, more at the health industry.
Andway, any
info about this card appreciated.
I guess I could through in into an old AT system and see what it does. There
are a few jumpers
marked 'int' and 'address' that might be worth finding out about before
running a "smoke" test.
My guess is that it is some sort of CPU board, but what?
Eric
Sounds like an early Ethernet card...
The Ungerman-Bass Ethernet cards are similar in most components except that
they use a '186 processor instead of the 68000
Bridge Communications made Ethernet 'Bridges' and terminal servers before
being bought out by someone else (don't remember who)
Peter Wallace
8201
days inactive
8201
days old
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
curt＠atari-history.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
GOOI＠oce.nl -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
vze2wsvr＠verizon.net -
zmerch＠30below.com